Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

walus wrote: »

Hmmm, I hear this a lot - we cannot allow our hospitals to get overrun. Equally, though we cannot allow for them to be empty as they have been for the past three months. The fact that they were deserted is yet another proof that the country by and large overreacted. Massively. It was through the summer months that we have had an opportunity to open up and experiment in an effort to understand and control the spread of the virus, feed back to modelling tools and prepare for "flu season". Now we arrive at it ill prepared and amid the plans for more lockdowns. I'm sorry but this is uterly idiodic and only proves that those at the helm do not have a clue what they are doing. And no it will not be the fault of the young people, as they are now being singled out by the media, for when the hospitals indeed become overrun. It will be solely down to a lack of imagination and forward thinking by nphet and the government.

~110 people in hospital. What the f have the HSE been doing over the six months to say that his relatively small amount has it already bursting at the seams.
We should be set up to cope with 10 times that number by now.

tigger123 wrote: »

And to what end would they want to try to control people more?

I'm not being smart, just teasing it out. After all this, where's the benefit I'm having a more malleable public if that is what they're after?

They are technocrats and their solution to problems is to create Soviet-like conditions of control and re-engineering of living. What they're after is to be the managers of a scientifically-governed malleable techno-state rather than the governors of a contiguous organic society.

Even if covid went away and all the restrictions were revoked, they could and would bring in new sets of restrictions to control CO2 emissions (by controlling people and industrial activity) or for some other hypothetical problem. This machine-like re-ordering of civil society to head off projections is very wrong and I don't support it.

Community has been dismantled, including for the very old, so someone who says they are doing this 'for the community' is like the apocryphal soldier in Vietnam who said "We had to burn down the village to save it".

Social atomisation imposed indefinitely (going on for years?) and poverty will finish off many communities. Winding down centres of socialising without replacing them (i.e. replacing pubs with cafe-bars) will lead to more social fragmentation.

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

There’s a lot of talk about the economy and personal responsibility and all that jazz (including whinging about those on social welfare for good measure). This is your opportunity to take personal responsibility for your career choices and skills to future proof yourself for the next recessionary event. Because they’re inevitable and your physical service based job will always be in throw to the momentum of the broader economy. Break the cycle of your own economic helplessness imo.

Now...for those who will feel the above paragraph stings a bit - it doesn’t come close to talking in a callous fashion about “OAP flu” and how we need to put a price on life. Does it?

No one is talking about OAP’s in a callous fashion. Infact I’ve repeatedly stated more information needs to be provided to this group & other vulnerable groups to help them better understand the risks of contracting the virus and how to minimise their risk. This messaging has been lost and replaced with threatened lockdowns on the population at large, which will not work long term.
What do you say to the OAP’s I have heard on radio & seen in my locality who do not want this situation to continue? They think enough is enough and want to take calculated risks and make their own choices.
You seem to be ‘blaming’ the younger generation for being less at risk from Covid & are harbouring grudges against them for simply wanting to work, live & pay the bills. Shame on you, it’s this group of the population that pays the pensions, for healthcare & public services. Imagine the stress some people in employment & businesses are under because of closures. Closures that will achieve nothing & drive people back into their homes to mix. All decided by an unelected government NPHET at the stroke of a pen with ZERO consultation.
Where is NPHET’s plan for increasing winter capacity for the health system? Not this pathetic 11th hour spin while hundreds of nursing and doctor jobs remain vacant & no one applies for them. Is that young people’s fault too?
There is no-one to blame for the existence of Covid 19 and who it affects. If you don’t want to accept it affects certain groups more, so be it. Don’t expect your income to remain unaffected if this economic carnage continues - the state is simply driving itself towards bankruptcy & the breakdown of civilised society. I think anyone with a brain should be standing up & questioning what’s happening at the moment..

CruelSummer wrote: »

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-tory-rebels-certain-they-have-enough-votes-to-defeat-pm-on-covid-19-rules-says-mp-12083267

U.K. MP’s want more of a say re further restrictions there. Also seeing headlines the finance mini steer there threatened to quit should more extreme measures have been taken.

Hopefully it’s a genuine concern and not political show for their seats.

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Just have a read of this post on this thread .If thats not callous then what is

Asset backed does have a valid point about saving the banks and now saving equity markets. We have broken capitalism again. Failure is also part of capitalism. How can a market be efficient if the government is constantly saving the failures.

That point is mixed in with an anti restriction point, I believe the restrictions are not so bad to be honest. I don't need the pub/cinema/music festival, I like them but I don't need them.

walus wrote: »

Bankruptcy is for capitalism what hell is to Christianity. There has to be a downside to reckless decisions, lack of planning and greed. Instead we privatise gains and socialise losses. A fcuked up system- that is what it is.

And even bankruptcy is part of the charade. Then again so is hell.

Unlimited profitability with limited losses. Who comes up with a system like that?

joseywhales wrote: »

That point is mixed in with an anti restriction point, I believe the restrictions are not so bad to be honest. I don't need the pub/cinema/music festival, I like them but I don't need them.

Mind me asking, do you work? If so, how many of the customers that use you or your company’s products etc are people who work in pubs, cinemas, the music festival industry?

Grand, you don’t go these places. But if they’re shutdown and so others who do like going there can’t, the workers there basically either get the PUP (your tax) or get a drastic pay cut, so need to reduce their discretionary spending (so maybe you or your company’s products don’t sell so well anymore)

It’s easy to say I don’t go to the places shutdown but I guarantee you, eventually, you will feel the effect of that in your own pocket when all these peoples’ lives are altered because of Covid lockdown/restrictions.

We need people out and mixing. You go to the pub, the barman goes to the coffee shop, the barista goes on a hotel break, the hotel manager flies off on a holiday, the pilot buys something from your company, etc etc.......

Easiest way around this, is open the country up. If you dont have money or medical insurance you won't get treated for covid including your parents etc.

CruelSummer wrote: »

No it wasn’t, I don’t find this language acceptable at all. We all need to find a way forward together with respect for each other’s positions.

I think people have made it clear and people wont forget either.

Recruitment when this is all over should be fun to see the trends

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Every single person I have spoken too in the last few weeks has said exactly this . People are disgusted with the HSE with tje lack of progress over the summer

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Public_Health_Emergency_Team_(2020)

There are 31 Member of NPHET and then 5 sub groups feeding into them

All no doubt on top salaries.

It's just a microcosm of our Health System- loaded with Management and advisors and not enough boots on the ground.

Although the numbers are high again but thankfully very little deaths. Obviously its hard on the people affected and a lot of us have been around tragedy. Its ****ing hard and even harder for families nowadays in this situation

Looking at the big picture I think the government needs to think about those levels again and actually try and in improve them. By mid 2021 we will still be at mid opening with a lot of industries still in limbo by then. I think we should be working towards a full opening by April/May 2021

Zebra3 wrote: »

What makes you think businesses will survive til then and will be able to reopen?

Thats the job for the lads in government to decide

This hiding in your house ****e is not going to work esp coming up to Halloween and Xmas

I see in Manchester they have locked 1700 students inside their halls and employed Private security to make sure no-one can get in or out.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54308329

normanoffside wrote: »

I see in Manchester they have locked 1700 students inside their halls and employed Private security to make sure no-one can get in or out.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-54308329

Old news, not locked in anymore

average_runner wrote: »

Old news, not locked in anymore

Incorrect, they are still locked in and will be fore 2 weeks. The University have apologised for forcing them to take protest posters down

https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/greater-manchester-news/manchester-met-uni-bosses-apologise-19006132