VW ID.4

Decoda · 23-09-2020 10:19pm

https://youtu.be/IcmdBAkT2hk

Subtitled German video from NextMove of the ID4 on the production line

cannco253 · 24-09-2020 11:12am

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/vw-s-new-all-electric-id-4-crossover-set-for-ireland-in-january-1.4362516

"Going on sale here in January, in time for the new 202 registration period, pricing for the so-called 1st Edition versions of the ID.4 will start at €42,995 after the varoius grants are taken into account. This pricing will only last until May, when the regular entry-level versions arrive. Prices for these have yet to be confirmed but we can expect them to be close to €33,000 for the low-range version.

Volkswagen expects to take delivery of 1,700 ID.4s in the Republic next year.

Sitting on striking 20-inch alloys, the 1st Edition versions of the new electric crossover also boast a range of up to 500km, courtesy of its 77kWh battery pack (a future lower range version with a 52kWh battery pack will offer about 340km between charges).

A higher grade Max version will also be on offer, priced at €54,395, featuring 21-inch alloys, a 12-inch touchscreen, electrically powered massage function seats and an augmented reality head-up display, which merges the information into the actual surroundings.

BBMcQ · 24-09-2020 11:13am

BBMcQ wrote: »

That’s much better looking than the iD3. The iD3 looks like a elongated Up! but the iD4 looks like a much better fit for the design. But yeah the Enyaq will likely kill it if it’s coming in 5k less pound for pound.

Strangely enough the iD4 is gunna hit the roads before the Enyaq. That might give VW the head start it needs.

digiman · 24-09-2020 11:58am

cannco253 wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/life-and-style/motors/vw-s-new-all-electric-id-4-crossover-set-for-ireland-in-january-1.4362516

"Going on sale here in January, in time for the new 202 registration period, pricing for the so-called 1st Edition versions of the ID.4 will start at €42,995 after the varoius grants are taken into account. This pricing will only last until May, when the regular entry-level versions arrive. Prices for these have yet to be confirmed but we can expect them to be close to €33,000 for the low-range version.

Volkswagen expects to take delivery of 1,700 ID.4s in the Republic next year.

Sitting on striking 20-inch alloys, the 1st Edition versions of the new electric crossover also boast a range of up to 500km, courtesy of its 77kWh battery pack (a future lower range version with a 52kWh battery pack will offer about 340km between charges).

A higher grade Max version will also be on offer, priced at €54,395, featuring 21-inch alloys, a 12-inch touchscreen, electrically powered massage function seats and an augmented reality head-up display, which merges the information into the actual surroundings.

€11.5k is a huge increase to the 1st Max, how does the top of the range Enyaq compare I wonder?

24-09-2020 12:45pm

cannco253 wrote: »

Prices for these have yet to be confirmed but we can expect them to be close to €33,000 for the low-range version.

That's pretty amazing if they can sell any id.4 for 33K, can't imagine there's much profit out of the id models yet.

Zenith74 · 24-09-2020 1:06pm

cannco253 wrote: »

Volkswagen expects to take delivery of 1,700 ID.4s in the Republic next year.

With <4000 EVs likely to be sold here in 2020, these kinds of numbers could make for interesting figures next year! Wonder how many ID3s are destined for here, probably similar? Some more e208s, eCorsas, probably a drop in Leaf sales, maybe decent Kona sales with their increased manufacturing volume, drop in Model3 maybe now that the backlog has been delivered.

Lumen · 24-09-2020 1:22pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quFBD7FlKAo

cannco253 · 24-09-2020 1:44pm

So now that Nissan know how much the ID.4 will cost, I wonder how will they price the Ariya 87kWh with similar range of 310 miles ?

24-09-2020 1:55pm

How much is a model Y ?

Black_Knight · 24-09-2020 2:18pm

Is the ID4 first a lot better spec'd than the ID3 first? Bigger battery, faster charging, reversing camera etc.

the_amazing_raisin · 24-09-2020 2:53pm

Black_Knight wrote: »

Is the ID4 first a lot better spec'd than the ID3 first? Bigger battery, faster charging, reversing camera etc.

Battery is bigger, 77kWh vs 58kWh on ID.3
Interior seems nicer spec, seats on the ID.4 seem a step up from the ID.3 1st base
More space in the ID.4, it's Tiguan sized
Charging is 125kW vs 100kW on ID.3
ID.4 1st has reversing cam and 1st Max has area view as well

I'd personally say the ID.4 1st is more like the ID.3 1st Plus

The Maxes are similar across both ID.3 and ID.4 in that they have the technology upgrades, matrix lights and Travel Assist so would suit long distance driving

the_amazing_raisin · 24-09-2020 2:57pm

Deleted User wrote: »

How much is a model Y ?

All I can find is UK pricing, starts at £45k for LR version.

Probably around €55-60k when the paddy taxes are taken into account

the_amazing_raisin · 24-09-2020 3:01pm

Deleted User wrote: »

That's pretty amazing if they can sell any id.4 for 33K, can't imagine there's much profit out of the id models yet.

Well that'll be the lower sized battery, 52kWh, and they're selling the ID.3 58kWh from something like €33k in Germany before grants.

So it's plausible at least. I'd say they'll cut the interior on the base version down to the bone to save money. Something closer to ID.3 levels

the_amazing_raisin · 24-09-2020 4:01pm

Looks like instead of free charging that the ID.3 got, ID.4 buyers will get a 3 year discount on Ionity rates

This enables you to enjoy the price advantages of public charging with a fast-charging ID.4: for 3 years without a monthly basic charge, you can charge at a preferential price of currently 0.53 €/kWh with IONITY with our We Charge Go tariff. The We Charge Plus premium tariff can quickly pay off for frequent drivers: for currently only 0.29 €/kWh at IONITY, you can recharge electricity in the shortest possible time at a monthly basic charge of €9.73 for 3 years.

I wonder what kWh you'd need to charge from Ionity to make the €9.73 worthwhile

the_amazing_raisin · 24-09-2020 5:10pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

I wonder what kWh you'd need to charge from Ionity to make the €9.73 worthwhile

I worked out about 41kWh of Ionity charging to break even.

Assuming 220Wh/km that gives 186km per month.

Seems a bit low, basically 1 long road trip a month. Does anyone else have a better answer?

Irishjg · 24-09-2020 9:17pm

Looking at the Autogefuehl vid yesterday the Id4 seems to be a pretty decent option. Anyone know if the Paddyspec will include a heat pump ?

the_amazing_raisin · 24-09-2020 9:39pm

Irishjg wrote: »

Looking at the Autogefuehl vid yesterday the Id4 seems to be a pretty decent option. Anyone know if the Paddyspec will include a heat pump ?

ID.3 doesn't so I'm gonna guess no

L-M · 24-09-2020 10:45pm

Irishjg wrote: »

Looking at the Autogefuehl vid yesterday the Id4 seems to be a pretty decent option. Anyone know if the Paddyspec will include a heat pump ?

I can’t see why we’re so hung up on heat pumps. Apparently the extra cost would take 20 years to pay back. 77kw is more than enough to not need one.

liamog · 25-09-2020 1:09am

L-M wrote: »

I can’t see why we’re so hung up on heat pumps. Apparently the extra cost would take 20 years to pay back. 77kw is more than enough to not need one.

There was a thread on it, the debate basically ended with, if you are in the sweet spot where a heat pump eliminates a mid journey charge on a regular journey then it's value is high, otherwise most people don't think it's worth it.

(Numbers are illustrative, not actual)
So if the ID.4 1st achieves 21.5kWh/100km (5% higher than ID.3) in summer at 120km/h for a total range of 358km, and drops 30% without a heat pump to cover 250km in Winter, versus 300km with one, if your regular trip is between those points there could be value in the time save, rather than money saved.

L-M · 25-09-2020 10:07pm

That’s fair enough but they’re fairly tight parameters to warrant it being “standard” ie the price being increased by a grand for everyone.

the_amazing_raisin · 26-09-2020 9:47am

L-M wrote: »

That’s fair enough but they’re fairly tight parameters to warrant it being “standard” ie the price being increased by a grand for everyone.

It's down to how much your time is worth. Say a heat pump costs €1000 as an add-on, and allows you to avoid 1 30 min DC charge on a long journey. Now it's just a question of how many long journeys you take and how much time you save.

If you make that journey once a month, then it's 6 hours saved per year. That's costing you €166 per hour

If you make the journey every week then that's 26 hours at a cost of €38 per hour

If you make that journey every work day then it's 250 hours saved at a cost of €4 per hour

The other argument of it is making your winter range more predictable. Nissan saw this with the leaf, the range loss because of heating dropped significantly when they switched to using a heat pump.

Obviously for everyone the heat pump doesn't make sense, but it'd be nice if VW would offer it as an add-on or an upgrade for those who would use it

26-09-2020 11:43am

It's not the heat pump People need to worry about in Winter it's the Wind and Rain. Once the temps get low enough anyway the HP is useless.

Those WLTP test cycles don't include much driving at 120 Km/hr either.

If someone is that worried then buy a car with more range and faster charging. I think 30% saving with a small HP in a car is just pure BS. Unless they have got a lot more efficient in the last few years which I doubt.

liamog · 26-09-2020 11:53am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It's not the heat pump People need to worry about in Winter it's the Wind and Rain. Once the temps get low enough anyway the HP is useless.

There's plenty of evidence that heat pumps have a positive effect on range during winter weather, especially in the range of temperatures we receive in Ireland.

Silent Running · 26-09-2020 12:20pm

Deleted User wrote: »

It's not the heat pump People need to worry about in Winter it's the Wind and Rain. Once the temps get low enough anyway the HP is useless.

Those WLTP test cycles don't include much driving at 120 Km/hr either.

If someone is that worried then buy a car with more range and faster charging. I think 30% saving with a small HP in a car is just pure BS. Unless they have got a lot more efficient in the last few years which I doubt.

But how often do we get down to -20C?

The heat pump that's proposed for the ID.3, and I presume the ID.4, uses CO2 as the refrigerant. Not only does it run better at lower temperatures, it's also a good bit more energy efficient than the planet damaging gasses used in most systems up to now.

26-09-2020 1:16pm

If heat pumps are that good then be mad not to spend the 1000.......

the_amazing_raisin · 26-09-2020 2:49pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

If heat pumps are that good then be mad not to spend the 1000.......

Doesn't your i3 have one? You can give us a review

liamog · 26-09-2020 2:56pm

cruisey1987 wrote: »

Doesn't your i3 have one? You can give us a review

The rex didn't come with a heat pump, I'm not sure if Mad_Lad's Leaf had one, I'd really love to see a side by side winter comparison between two of the same model one with and one without so we can get a decent opinion.

the_amazing_raisin · 26-09-2020 3:07pm

liamog wrote: »

The rex didn't come with a heat pump, I'm not sure if Mad_Lad's Leaf had one, I'd really love to see a side by side winter comparison between two of the same model one with and one without so we can get a decent opinion.

Yeah there have been a few comparisons of similar vehicles but I've never seen a side by side of the same car. If someone could get a 2012 and 2013 leaf then that's about as good as a test as you can guess

From my experience of a household heat pump, a lot depends on how it's used. They're efficient, but they're slow to heat up a space. If you set the temperature high, then the backup electric heater will kick in and the efficiency drops like a stone.

Best mix I've found with my leaf is to preheat while plugged in to a high temperature then set the heating to between 19 and 21.

26-09-2020 3:19pm

liamog wrote: »

The rex didn't come with a heat pump, I'm not sure if Mad_Lad's Leaf had one, I'd really love to see a side by side winter comparison between two of the same model one with and one without so we can get a decent opinion.

The i3 doesn't show anything other than Kwh/100 km as a means of knowing the efficiency overall. No heater consumption , regen power, acceleration etc.

Rex didn't need the heat pump anyway because the Generator is there to allow further travel. Much handier than a HP lol.

The only real way would be to put current sensing on the heater wires and measure the exact Kwh consumed by either heater. But would someone do this without turning the heat down in the HP and heat up in the one without HP ?

Batteries have enough Kwh today anyway to make irrelevant and they charge much faster or beginning to, I'd much rather a tesla like system of heating the battery before fast charging than having a HP. Better heater efficiency vs slow cold battery charging ? lol

26-09-2020 3:22pm

liamog wrote: »

The rex didn't come with a heat pump, I'm not sure if Mad_Lad's Leaf had one, I'd really love to see a side by side winter comparison between two of the same model one with and one without so we can get a decent opinion.

The i3 doesn't show anything other than Kwh/100 km as a means of knowing the efficiency overall. No heater consumption , regen power, acceleration etc.

Rex didn't need the heat pump anyway because the Generator is there to allow further travel. Much handier than a HP lol.

The only real way would be to put current sensing on the heater wires and measure the exact Kwh consumed by either heater. But would someone do this without turning the heat down in the HP and heat up in the one without HP ?

Wind, surface water, cold air and cold battery charging are much more of an issue.

VW ID.4

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