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VW ID.4

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Comments

  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    graememk wrote: »
    Would a tesla model Y be in that comparison too? As the id4 and Y are cossover like?

    I don't think either of them are, you'll likely be paying around 15k less for the Volkswagen model with the same range. Remember Audi is VAG's car's for the market that Tesla targets.

    So in answer to what you get with the ID.4 over a Model Y, moolah.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,450 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    The id4 interior looks nicer in my opinion compared to the Model Y or S or 3, Outside it looks better too.

    Anyone know if the id4 will have the same level of automation as Autopilot ?

    I think if I'm to get a new car that for the amount of Motorway miles I'm doing tesla's Autopilot would be what would swing me towards a model 3.

    But, I'm doing too many kms now to be buying new cars lol.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,450 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    graememk wrote: »
    Would a tesla model Y be in that comparison too? As the id4 and Y are cossover like?

    No I think a Y would be more Audi Etron territory or a bit behind.


  • Moderators Posts: 12,068 ✭✭✭✭ Black_Knight


    https://youtu.be/cfdmohiNhLg

    Not sure if that's anything new. 107-150kW motors. And the same 50 and 70 kWh batteries in the enyaq. 300-500km range. So scrap the 50kAwh one, since that'll just do 200km on the motorway, and scrap the 70, because it'll be too pricey


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    It's about 6k to upgrade the enyaq from the 58kWh to 77kWh battery.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    The id4 interior looks nicer in my opinion compared to the Model Y or S or 3, Outside it looks better too.

    Anyone know if the id4 will have the same level of automation as Autopilot ?

    I think if I'm to get a new car that for the amount of Motorway miles I'm doing tesla's Autopilot would be what would swing me towards a model 3.

    But, I'm doing too many kms now to be buying new cars lol.

    I've not experienced either so all I know is from manuals and youtube videos

    From what I can tell, VW travel assist will cover all the basics of autopilot; radar guided cruise control, lane keeping, emergency braking and can stop and start in traffic.

    VW has predictive speed limiting, so it'll read speed signs and adjust the cruise control setting accordingly. Tesla relies on gps data which can be inaccurate sometimes.

    Tesla seems to focus on having the autopilot handle navigation decisions whereas VW leave that up to the driver, so it won't take a motorway exit for you.

    I'm going to venture that autopilot is a bit better since tesla have been developing it longer and have a better data set to work off of. Also Tesla are probably quicker with software updates so autopilot will likely age better. Having said that, tesla also have a spotty history with upgrading hardware in the model 3 (some get it, some don't with no real explanation)

    The VW travel assist is only on the highest trim levels of the ID.3 and I'm gonna guess it'll be that same for the ID.4, so it'll be an extra cost over the base price


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,345 ✭✭✭✭ KCross


    I've not experienced either so all I know is from manuals and youtube videos

    From what I can tell, VW travel assist will cover all the basics of autopilot; radar guided cruise control, lane keeping, emergency braking and can stop and start in traffic.

    Just to clarify, all ID.3’s and presumably all ID.4, Enyaqs etc have that by default.

    Travel assist adds extra on top of those.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    KCross wrote: »
    Just to clarify, all ID.3’s and presumably all ID.4, Enyaqs etc have that by default.

    Travel assist adds extra on top of those.

    Correct yes, travel assist kind of ties all these together in one system and is capable of suggesting actions like an overtake on a dual carriageway.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,450 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    Cheers for the replies, I would assume teslas Ap to be much more advanced but no experience with either.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Cheers for the replies, I would assume teslas Ap to be much more advanced but no experience with either.

    I'd say in terms of features they're quite similar, I think the advantage of autopilot is that Tesla have been developing it longer, so it's probably a smoother experience overall.

    However as was pointed out, the lower trims have adaptive cruise control and lane keeping, which covers about 90% of what you'd want autopilot for (drive on main road, don't crash into car in front, don't drive off road).

    So you could have a budget solution for cheaper than the Model Y.

    Personally there are 3 main reasons why I'd choose the ID.4 over Tesla right now:

    1. Price - I can probably get an ID.4 with the features I want for cheaper than the Model Y. The model 3 is too small for what I need right now.

    2. Convenience - The only Tesla service center in Ireland is on the other side of Dublin through the most heavily trafficked roads in the country. There's a VW garage a 15 min jog away, I can drop the car in for a service, jog home and work from home instead of taking the day off.

    3. Looks - Yeah it's subjective, and a lot of people are gonna disagree, but I prefer the look of the ID series cars, and I really like the interior of the ID.4

    So there's my analysis, I know it's very specific to my situation but I think everyone should think about this sort of stuff before committing to a new car. What works for others may or may not suit you


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,450 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    I'd say in terms of features they're quite similar, I think the advantage of autopilot is that Tesla have been developing it longer, so it's probably a smoother experience overall.

    However as was pointed out, the lower trims have adaptive cruise control and lane keeping, which covers about 90% of what you'd want autopilot for (drive on main road, don't crash into car in front, don't drive off road).

    So you could have a budget solution for cheaper than the Model Y.

    Personally there are 3 main reasons why I'd choose the ID.4 over Tesla right now:

    1. Price - I can probably get an ID.4 with the features I want for cheaper than the Model Y. The model 3 is too small for what I need right now.

    2. Convenience - The only Tesla service center in Ireland is on the other side of Dublin through the most heavily trafficked roads in the country. There's a VW garage a 15 min jog away, I can drop the car in for a service, jog home and work from home instead of taking the day off.

    3. Looks - Yeah it's subjective, and a lot of people are gonna disagree, but I prefer the look of the ID series cars, and I really like the interior of the ID.4

    So there's my analysis, I know it's very specific to my situation but I think everyone should think about this sort of stuff before committing to a new car. What works for others may or may not suit you

    German interiors are in my opinion the best out there when you get a decent spec of course.

    Yes the ID4 to me is a lot better looking than the Model 3 which I think is pig ugly from the front.

    If the id4 has indeed got lane keep assist thing as good as Autopilot it would be on my list, but a decent spec id4 is going to be expensive and 50 Kwh I don't think it's going to give as much range I bet as a Model 3.

    Indeed most of my mileage is motorway so I would like the best form of automation I can buy to ease the pain of this endless commute.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Davy


    Very clever marketing the towing. VW are trying to kill the Model Y before it even gets to Europe






    1. Price - I can probably get an ID.4 with the features I want for cheaper than the Model Y. The model 3 is too small for what I need right now.

    Depends on what features you want. The basic ID.3 didn't have keyless entry or a reversing camera in 2020 for €34k. For comparison albeit stupid, you could buy 2 Dacia dusters with reversing cameras and have change left over.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Davy wrote: »
    Very clever marketing the towing. VW are trying to kill the Model Y before it even gets to Europe

    Will be interesting to see how the ID.4 is priced, past rumours had it about 5k more than an ID.3. VAGs answer to the Model Y will be the Q4 e-Tron I think it's due for announcement soon.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 19,340 CMod ✭✭✭✭ Davy


    liamog wrote: »
    VAGs answer to the Model Y will be the Q4 e-Tron I think it's due for announcement soon.

    Yeah that's probably fair to say, but I think a lot of people will be looking at Model Y/ID.4/Skoda Enyaq comparison.


  • Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭ TheBigEvil


    Not sure if there is a thread on this yet, but thought I throw this up.

    First look at the VW ID.4. Looks to be ready for 2021, as in early 2021 delivery.

    Certainly will be keeping an eye on this...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cfdmohiNhLg


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    I suppose it's pretty much officially called the ID.4 now, so I've updated the thread title.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,450 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    It looks a lot nicer than the id.3 inside, the id.3 should have been better to be honest.

    Can't imagine what a decent spec id.4 will cost, probably 50K at least and with travel assist I might consider one over a model 3 but I doubt it will have more than 120 Kw charging on offer. I'd be more betting it will be closer to 60K with decent power. Same motor as the id.3 and it will be too slow.

    It's going to be more inefficient than the id.3 and m3 too but not really a big problem for my 142-155 kms commute.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    It looks a lot nicer than the id.3 inside, the id.3 should have been better to be honest.

    Can't imagine what a decent spec id.4 will cost, probably 50K at least and with travel assist I might consider one over a model 3 but I doubt it will have more than 120 Kw charging on offer. I'd be more betting it will be closer to 60K with decent power. Same motor as the id.3 and it will be too slow.

    It's going to be more inefficient than the id.3 and m3 too but not really a big problem for my 142-155 kms commute.


    The starting prices have been mentioned around €40k, which puts it in Tiguan R line territory. That's 10k more to play with than the ID.3 so I'm guessing they'll spend a bit more on the interior.


    They'll probably have a 'budget' interior closer to the ID.3 as well.


    VW seem to tune the charging power to the battery size to keep it to around 30-45 mins. For example the 58kWh ID.3 can charge up to 100kW, but the 77kWh can charge up to 125kW.


    Of course this will likely be an option same as the ID.3. Base will probably have 50kW DC charging, although if they upped to 75kW or something a bit higher would be nice



    The motor will probably not provide much entertainment, but considering the majority of cars in that segment seem to be used to ferry the kids to school then it'll be fine for everyday driving. More power hungry customers will probably wait for the AWD version


    Battery sizes seem a tad bizarre, no middle option to speak of, only 52kWh and 77kWh. Something in the mid 60s would have been nice too, I feel like 52kWh might be a tad short for a road trip.


    Drag has been mentioned around 0.28c which is E-tron territory, so it'll likely be a thirsty vehicle on the motorway


  • Registered Users Posts: 310 ✭✭ drumm23


    Drag has been mentioned around 0.28c which is E-tron territory, so it'll likely be a thirsty vehicle on the motorway

    that's not great


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    drumm23 wrote: »
    that's not great


    Yeah it seems a bit high, I mean it looks sleeker than the E-tron so it should be more aerodynamic


    The E-tron carries a lot of weight around as well (nearly 2.5 tonnes) so if the ID.4 is lighter that'll give it a slight boost


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,450 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    The starting prices have been mentioned around €40k, which puts it in Tiguan R line territory. That's 10k more to play with than the ID.3 so I'm guessing they'll spend a bit more on the interior.


    They'll probably have a 'budget' interior closer to the ID.3 as well.


    VW seem to tune the charging power to the battery size to keep it to around 30-45 mins. For example the 58kWh ID.3 can charge up to 100kW, but the 77kWh can charge up to 125kW.


    Of course this will likely be an option same as the ID.3. Base will probably have 50kW DC charging, although if they upped to 75kW or something a bit higher would be nice



    The motor will probably not provide much entertainment, but considering the majority of cars in that segment seem to be used to ferry the kids to school then it'll be fine for everyday driving. More power hungry customers will probably wait for the AWD version


    Battery sizes seem a tad bizarre, no middle option to speak of, only 52kWh and 77kWh. Something in the mid 60s would have been nice too, I feel like 52kWh might be a tad short for a road trip.


    Drag has been mentioned around 0.28c which is E-tron territory, so it'll likely be a thirsty vehicle on the motorway
    Yeah it seems a bit high, I mean it looks sleeker than the E-tron so it should be more aerodynamic


    The E-tron carries a lot of weight around as well (nearly 2.5 tonnes) so if the ID.4 is lighter that'll give it a slight boost

    But as you say most will probably be used to ferry Children to school so that won't be an issue either.

    50 Kw is lame and I'm not sure the non ev minded motoring public will get this, will they see it as 3.3 Kw Leaf vs 6.6 Kw Leaf and decide "I'm not paying that " ? then on a long trip realise charging is slow ?

    You can be sure dealers will get in a flood of cheaper 50 Kw id.4 like Nissan did with the original leaf by getting in mostly and then insist that they don't need 100Kw charging but what they really mean is "I have a 50 Kw and I need to sell it so I'll spin this muppet here the story that it's a waste of money"

    I seriously doubt adding 100 Kw costs VW anything, it's just ridiculous.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    But as you say most will probably be used to ferry Children to school so that won't be an issue either.

    50 Kw is lame and I'm not sure the non ev minded motoring public will get this, will they see it as 3.3 Kw Leaf vs 6.6 Kw Leaf and decide "I'm not paying that " ? then on a long trip realise charging is slow ?

    You can be sure dealers will get in a flood of cheaper 50 Kw id.4 like Nissan did with the original leaf by getting in mostly and then insist that they don't need 100Kw charging but what they really mean is "I have a 50 Kw and I need to sell it so I'll spin this muppet here the story that it's a waste of money"

    I seriously doubt adding 100 Kw costs VW anything, it's just ridiculous.


    To be fair, 90% of the DC chargers in the country can only supply 50kW, so depending on location you might not have any use for 100kW charging for a few years yet.


    Personally, I'd pay, but there's Ionity chargers along 2 of the main routes I'm likely to take so I can justify it with that


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Skoda are charging £430 to add 100kW to the Enyaq in the UK, it really does put into perspective how little it costs to provide it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,450 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    liamog wrote: »
    Skoda are charging £430 to add 100kW to the Enyaq in the UK, it really does put into perspective how little it costs to provide it.

    It costs 450 but in reality probably costs nothing at the factory. Just a way to make more money, truth be told it's probably limited by software.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,450 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    To be fair, 90% of the DC chargers in the country can only supply 50kW, so depending on location you might not have any use for 100kW charging for a few years yet.


    Personally, I'd pay, but there's Ionity chargers along 2 of the main routes I'm likely to take so I can justify it with that

    It's not fair at all in my opinion, that's just a bad situation in Ireland but there are more 150 Kw chargers now with Ionity and 2 ESB, better to have 100 Kw when you get the chance to charge at 100 Kw than sit waiting at 50 Kw wishing you had 100 Kw.

    On the continent the situation is far different with lots more 100+ Kw chargers. No excuse for having 50 Kw charging with a new EV platform in 2020.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    VW posted an ad video about fast charging
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qSPsFYbX6Vc

    They probably should have thought about it more since they showed it at 95% SoC and it was only charging at 27kW at that point :D

    Maybe they didn't want to give away the max charging rate


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    A comparison by VW of the ID.4 versus the Tesla Model Y.

    If the comparison is correct, I feel that the 10k difference is about right for the slower acceleration and DC charge speeds.
    They'd want to increase the interior quality over the ID.3 if they are going to claim it's better than the Model Y.

    tj1hqiqkfan51.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,450 ✭✭✭✭ Mad_Lad


    The id.4 will have a lot better interior than the id.3.

    Acceleration will be irrelevant for most Irish drivers who would normally get 9-12 second acceleration in a crossover/small SUV.

    I doubt most of the non ev enthusiast motoring public will know anything about charging power until they have the car and attempt their first charge.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,230 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    Mad_Lad wrote: »
    Acceleration will be irrelevant for most Irish drivers who would normally get 9-12 second acceleration in a crossover/small SUV.

    That's it, my e-Up! has a rated 0-100km/h time of 12.6s. I still find myself leaving most drivers of combustion cars far behind me at lights and slip roads, and I've never had a problem overtaking slower moving vehicles when I need to.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,507 ✭✭✭ the_amazing_raisin


    liamog wrote: »
    That's it, my e-Up! has a rated 0-100km/h time of 12.6s. I still find myself leaving most drivers of combustion cars far behind me at lights and slip roads, and I've never had a problem overtaking slower moving vehicles when I need to.


    Likewise with the Leaf 24, it's a donkey by EV standards but I've only been beaten off the line once and that was by a Golf GTI


    I did like the line about how the acceleration "wasn't relevant" to the masses. It's not wrong but it seemed a bit petty


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