Nvidia RTX Discussion

Cordell · 24-09-2020 3:20pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

Steve laying into Nvidia. Its interesting how their performance results are different to a lot other reviews and how he keeps making reference to "cherry picking" certain games to show performance differences over the 3080.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgs-VbqsuKo

Like most top end Nvidia cards, I get the impression that the cost/value argument is pointless. Not sure why he is bothering to make it.

He's both right and wrong: it's indeed a crappy console like experience at 8K, but they market it as such as to sell it to enthusiasts that have more money than common sense - its price it's only a fraction of the price of the 8K display. They can't market it for 4K gaming when it's only about 10% better than their real 4K gaming 3080. The pros will buy it anyway for their professional applications, there's no need to market it to them.

24-09-2020 3:21pm

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

Hopefully the release of such a good card in the 3080 is a signal of what AMD might have to offer.

That's my read on it too. Either Nvidia really ****ed up, or they got wind of what AMD had in store, and had to beef up the "baseline" 3080 to take wind out of their sails.

If that's the case, soaking the 3090 slating makes more sense as a tradeoff to put the 3080 out ahead of its price-point competitors.

Cuddlesworth · 24-09-2020 3:24pm

L wrote: »

I am hugely surprised that Nvidia launched such a strong card as a 3080 since it makes their 3090's 10% improvement look really anemic.

Its the first time since 2013(GTX780) they have bothered to release their "large" chip as the top end product on a generational jump. Within the chip, you don't really have a lot of play.

If you read between the lines, Big Navi must be expected to be somewhat competitive. If your desperate for a card, buy one. Otherwise I would sit on it for a while.

Thor · 24-09-2020 3:24pm

Still see some 3090 in stock in currys uk. Absolute mad to drop that much for so little extra performance.

In other news. My 3080 just shipped. Now the real waiting game begins.

Cuddlesworth · 24-09-2020 3:30pm

Cordell wrote: »

He's both right and wrong: it's indeed a crappy console like experience at 8K, but they market it as such as to sell it to enthusiasts that have more money than common sense - its price it's only a fraction of the price of the 8K display. They can't market it for 4K gaming when it's only about 10% better than their real 4K gaming 3080. The pros will buy it anyway for their professional applications, there's no need to market it to them.

I agree completely, I don't think making the argument of value, or not using DLSS or that 8k TV's don't really exist in the market, matters.

In the 1K+ market, people are really buying cards for the big numbers regardless of what those numbers really mean. Titan was just a branding excercise and tons of people bought them for gaming. The 3090 is just them squeezing every last drop from the chip, I assume because there standard of mid size chip as the 3080 would have put them behind AMD.

So the 3090 marketing was a bit whack, the VRAM is huge for what it really needs, the card is a power hungry monster that has a 2kilo heatsink and it has big numbers. It will sell regardless same as the last few generations.

Fitz II · 24-09-2020 3:31pm

Thor wrote: »

Still see some 3090 in stock in currys uk. Absolute mad to drop that much for so little extra performance.

Like said above the value argument is pointless. At the moment if you want the best there is get the 3090. If you want the second best get the 3080. Law of diminishing return is always there, would have liked more performance out of it...but hey I could game just fine on my 2080ti...and as that is bought and paid for the smart move was to stay put...but where is the fun in that. I like the hardware.

MiskyBoyy · 24-09-2020 3:34pm

Bungusbeefcake wrote: »

How are you getting it shipped from Germany?? They only deliver to Austria and Germany,

Amazon.de let me choose an Irish or UK address.

Bungusbeefcake · 24-09-2020 3:42pm

MiskyBoyy wrote: »

Amazon.de let me choose an Irish or UK address.

Ah, my bad. I thought you bought an FE from Nvidia Germany! That makes more sense!

MiskyBoyy · 24-09-2020 3:45pm

Bungusbeefcake wrote: »

Ah, my bad. I thought you bought an FE from Nvidia Germany! That makes more sense!

However, Mailboxde.com is an option to order from Nvidia Germany. They provide a parcel forwarding service.

Samuel T. Cogley · 24-09-2020 4:18pm

The Gamers Nexus review did give me a few laughs - not something that can usually be said of Tech Jesus.

Thor · 24-09-2020 4:54pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Like said above the value argument is pointless. At the moment if you want the best there is get the 3090. If you want the second best get the 3080. Law of diminishing return is always there, would have liked more performance out of it...but hey I could game just fine on my 2080ti...and as that is bought and paid for the smart move was to stay put...but where is the fun in that. I like the hardware.

Ah absolutely. Sure if anyone has the money, then it's all good. I just think it's mad there are folks buying it because they can't get a 3080.

I just mean it from marketing point of view. Such little performance between the two cards. Any idea of a 3080 TI would mean either identical or potentially better gaming performance for less money compared to 3090.

Also in my opinion. 10 percent diff in 4k just isn't enough to even notice, so truthfully I'm my mind, it's not better.Just bigger.

Metric Tensor · 24-09-2020 5:13pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Think I got one a EVGA model, was mental, Overclockers was crashing and not going to payment. I got one paid for on scan but waiting confirmation on my order history. Fingers crossed.

Photos when it comes please Fitz! Some of us can only live vicariously!

Cuddlesworth · 24-09-2020 5:13pm

Thor wrote: »

Any idea of a 3080 TI would mean either identical or potentially better gaming performance for less money compared to 3090

I really doubt you will see a 3090ti or that it will have any real noticeable performance uplift if it does get released.

I'd put money that the
3070 was meant to be the 3080 sold at launch.
3080 was meant to be the 3080ti, sold at a later date.
3090 and cooler were going to be RTX Titan in the 6-10 months between the two cards release.

24-09-2020 5:16pm

Fitz II wrote: »

Like said above the value argument is pointless. At the moment if you want the best there is get the 3090. If you want the second best get the 3080. Law of diminishing return is always there, would have liked more performance out of it...but hey I could game just fine on my 2080ti...and as that is bought and paid for the smart move was to stay put...but where is the fun in that. I like the hardware.

I don't think it's pointless. The 3080 has set a new benchmark for expected price/performance. 10% extra performance for twice the price is going to fall short for most high end purchasers - even if it is currently "the best". It's basic price to perceived value consumer surplus stuff.

Now, if the 3080 didn't exist, it would be a significantly more tempting card.

BloodBath · 24-09-2020 5:23pm

I've said it all along. It's a titan class card.

If you aren't using software that can make use of the memory then you're better off with a 3080. It's a workstation card that's also the best gaming card on the side.

Thor · 24-09-2020 5:55pm

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I really doubt you will see a 3090ti or that it will have any real noticeable performance uplift if it does get released.

I'd put money that the
3070 was meant to be the 3080 sold at launch.
3080 was meant to be the 3080ti, sold at a later date.
3090 and cooler were going to be RTX Titan in the 6-10 months between the two cards release.

Definitely possible, I was more thinking a 3080ti would be a hard sell between the 3080 and 3090. It would mainly be more Vram, but pricing would undercut the 3090. I think that's why we are seeing 3080 rumours with 20GB Vram..even then, not really helpful for gamers and will definitely undercut 3090 unless its priced at like €1200, and then most will be like nah 10GB is good enough this generation.

One thing for sure.

3090 is not a gaming card. Nvidia know this so much. Marketing ****e aside. They are pushing 8k as their only method of showing any real difference compared to the 3080 in gaming. Its definitely their Titan but they felt calling it a 3090 might convince gamers it's worth getting. I hope people see through this. It's a compute card. The 24GB of Vram make that clear.

Hyzepher · 24-09-2020 6:01pm

I suspect that the 3070 will be 15%-20% below that of the 3080 - probably similar gaps as we see from 3080 to 3090

This, I believe, has constricted Nvidia's options in terms of their ability to provide multiple tiers in the 30xx generation. Even more than the 20xx series. With all the chatter about vram they will probably market 16/20 Gb versions as some sort of "upgrade" when on the most part it won't make any difference to 90% of people

I think AMD have a real opening here if they have a card that performs somewhere around the 3070 and is supported by a tier structure of other cards that give bigger +/- performance levels. As this provides cards for everybody with acceptable performance gaps to give people confirmation in their purchase.

Nvidia might have customers who may feel cheated for being early purchasers

Mr Crispy · 24-09-2020 6:03pm

BloodBath wrote: »

I've said it all along. It's a titan class card.

If you aren't using software that can make use of the memory then you're better off with a 3080. It's a workstation card that's also the best gaming card on the side.

Yeah, I think they knew AMD would be closer to them this time, so to ensure they had the number one gaming card, they re-branded what would have been the Titan as the 3090.

frozenfrozen · 24-09-2020 6:10pm

they did gimp the viewport performance as per that linus video linked earlier

So I don't think they know themselves if it's a titan. It's only a software update away from being one though

puget systems have some benchmarks up of the 3090 and the numbers aren't higher than the 3080 either.I think their testing might have a massive bottleneck they've discovered with this generation.

https://www.pugetsystems.com/benchmarks/?age=30&benchmark=&application=&specs=3090#results-table

Fitz II · 24-09-2020 6:39pm

L wrote: »

I don't think it's pointless. The 3080 has set a new benchmark for expected price/performance. 10% extra performance for twice the price is going to fall short for most high end purchasers - even if it is currently "the best". It's basic price to perceived value consumer surplus stuff.

Now, if the 3080 didn't exist, it would be a significantly more tempting card.

But you cant SLI the 3080

Longing · 24-09-2020 8:13pm

RTX 3070 EU prices. 8GB is way to skimpy at least 10GB.

BloodBath · 24-09-2020 8:17pm

8gb of standard ddr6, not even the gddr6x that's on the other cards is a bit light for that price.

Gonna hold out and see what AMD bring to the table and Nvidias response.

5700 is still doing fine for now. A new monitor will be my next purchase.

one armed dwarf · 24-09-2020 8:47pm

I remember my r9 390 having 8 gigs in 2015.

Tbf not a completely fair comparison especially as you never used it all but still.

Squidgy Black · 24-09-2020 8:48pm

Pricing isn't great compared to the 3080 which has not only ddr6x but an extra 2gb too.

Probably going to wait and see what AMD have up their sleeves or wait for the super/ti variants.

Glad I picked up another card in the meantime and didn't bank on getting a 3080 or a 3070 snappy.

jumbobreakfast · 24-09-2020 10:05pm

BloodBath wrote: »

I've said it all along. It's a titan class card.

If you aren't using software that can make use of the memory then you're better off with a 3080. It's a workstation card that's also the best gaming card on the side.

That's what I thought initially too but it's not in the same price range as a titan, it has much higher power requirements and has a massive cooler because it generates too much heat. It has a premium price but you don't really get a premium product. Not sure how they are going to make a proper Titan this time around unless they drastically change the card so it draws less power and generates less heat.

kingtiger · 24-09-2020 10:29pm

BloodBath wrote: »

Gonna hold out and see what AMD bring to the table and Nvidias response.

5700 is still doing fine for now. A new monitor will be my next purchase.

That's definitely where the smart money is

Nedved85 · 24-09-2020 10:33pm

Just watched a few reviews of the 3090, 3080 is the one for me. Play ultrawide 1440p at the moment and the 3080 looks the job. Just need to find stock now, keeping an eye on evga and scan, not holding out much hope though

Inquitus · 24-09-2020 10:33pm

Aye I'll wait and see what Big Navi has to offer and then make a decision, its highly unlikely you could source a 3000 series before then anyways unless you already have one or a pre-order.

dreamers75 · 24-09-2020 10:45pm

So yeah big navi......tried to pick up a 3090 but failed miserably same with 3080

Ordered a duel fuel range cooker instead, reckon they all hit the same temsp eventually

Inquitus · 24-09-2020 10:46pm

dreamers75 wrote: »

So yeah big navi......tried to pick up a 3090 but failed miserably same with 3080

Ordered a duel fuel range cooker instead, reckon they all hit the same temsp eventually

The size of the 3090 is quite something else, its mahoosive!

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