Irish Property Market 2020 Part 2

They come for the tax, stay for the laissez faire regulation and the workers being decent is a bonus.

The pharmaceutical industry termed Ireland "Europe's treasure island" - it certainly wasn't just because the workers dont complain.

Cyrus wrote: »

100% this, we are much more aligned with the americans than the europeans in terms of our work culture, for better or worse.

I'm not sure that's completely true. But, don't worry, I won't get into the debate of what the majority of their employees are involved in in Ireland

Google UK - 4,439 employees
Google Switzerland - 2,500 employees
Google France - 1,000 employees
Google Germany - 1,400 employees

Number of Google UK Employees: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/07/google-uk-staff-earned-average-of-234000-in-2019

Number of Google Switzerland Employees: https://www.s-ge.com/en/article/news/20183-google-location#:~:text=Google%20requires%20around%20a%20dozen,to%205%2C000%2C%E2%80%9D%20said%20H%C3%B6lzle.

Number of Google France Employees: https://fortune.com/2017/10/10/google-jobs-france/#:~:text=Google%20France%20plans%20to%20increase,Les%20Echos%20in%20an%20interview.

Number of Google Germany Employees: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/google-opens-new-office-in-berlin-with-eye-on-expansion/#:~:text=Google%20currently%20has%201%2C400%20employees%20in%20Germany.

PropQueries wrote: »

I'm not sure that's completely true. But, don't worry, I won't get into the debate of what the majority of their employees are involved in in Ireland

Google UK - 4,439 employees
Google Switzerland - 2,500 employees
Google France - 1,000 employees
Google Germany - 1,400 employees

Number of Google UK Employees: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2020/apr/07/google-uk-staff-earned-average-of-234000-in-2019

Number of Google Switzerland Employees: https://www.s-ge.com/en/article/news/20183-google-location#:~:text=Google%20requires%20around%20a%20dozen,to%205%2C000%2C%E2%80%9D%20said%20H%C3%B6lzle.

Number of Google France Employees: https://fortune.com/2017/10/10/google-jobs-france/#:~:text=Google%20France%20plans%20to%20increase,Les%20Echos%20in%20an%20interview.

Number of Google Germany Employees: https://www.seattletimes.com/business/google-opens-new-office-in-berlin-with-eye-on-expansion/#:~:text=Google%20currently%20has%201%2C400%20employees%20in%20Germany.

I don't get the US work culture thing. In my experience working for 2 US MNCs, it was very much an Irish / European working culture. There was no expectation to work long hours. Maybe it is different in some industries but not in my experience of tech and telecoms.

Interesting article on developers and their backers.

In Foxrock, Work Continues on Apartments after the Developer and Property Finance Company Close down

"One Springfield Park is set to be a luxury development of 20 apartments but in April the developer Wardville Ltd, owned by Ben Devey, went into receivership.

In recent weeks the funder for the project, Cullaun Capital, closed up too.

Cullaun Capital is now closed to new business, says founder Stephen Bell by email.

A spokesperson for the Department of Finance said he couldn’t rule out other commercial property lenders going out of business. 'It is not possible to be definitive but in any economic downturn it is likely some firms will face difficulty.' he says.

The spokesperson says: 'If the impact of a downturn differentially impacts a specific sector or subsector, then any specialist lender operating in, or dependent, on the same sector or subsector is likely to experience difficulties'."

Link to article here: https://dublininquirer.com/2020/09/23/in-foxrock-work-continues-on-apartments-after-the-developer-and-property-finance-company-close-down

PropQueries wrote: »

Interesting article on developers and their backers.

In Foxrock, Work Continues on Apartments after the Developer and Property Finance Company Close down

"One Springfield Park is set to be a luxury development of 20 apartments but in April the developer Wardville Ltd, owned by Ben Devey, went into receivership.

In recent weeks the funder for the project, Cullaun Capital, closed up too.

Cullaun Capital is now closed to new business, says founder Stephen Bell by email.

A spokesperson for the Department of Finance said he couldn’t rule out other commercial property lenders going out of business. 'It is not possible to be definitive but in any economic downturn it is likely some firms will face difficulty.' he says.

The spokesperson says: 'If the impact of a downturn differentially impacts a specific sector or subsector, then any specialist lender operating in, or dependent, on the same sector or subsector is likely to experience difficulties'."

Link to article here: https://dublininquirer.com/2020/09/23/in-foxrock-work-continues-on-apartments-after-the-developer-and-property-finance-company-close-down

landofthetree wrote: »

I predicted this months back.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=113497111&postcount=7605

Loans have to be serviced so cash flow is vital. Property developers are screwed witbout sales coming in.

Expect to see it happen on the lower priced property in the next couple of months,


Next stage is the small property developers will start to go under. You know the type. His shills who work for him say he is sound, he is a good businessman,his property are well built etc

Not surprised at all developers are starting to get into trouble. Without sales coming in the smaller developers will be screwed. The banks/vultures who they own money to will take them to the courts once they show any sign of inability to pay,

Augeo wrote: »

And google Ireland........... The internet and tech giant first opened its EMEA Head Quarters in Dublin in 2003 with 100 employees. Just over 15 years later the EU HQ is now Google’s largest outside of the US, employing over 8,000 people from over 70 countries, speaking more than 75 languages. Google's relationship with Ireland continues to grow as a second €150 million data centre has just been green-lighted for development in Dublin.

All true and it's being great for Ireland. But, as you say, they employ people from over 70 countries and they speak more than 75 languages. So, they're not here for our English. Maybe initially, but as mature companies, wouldn't they now be getting more interested in salary costs etc. If many of their employees are from other countries in the EU, it would make sense to re-locate there if the upcoming OECD tax reforms do remove our one competitive advantage.

Augeo wrote: »

So the likes of "April the developer Wardville Ltd, owned by Ben Devey, went into receivership" will be taken to court by the bank they owe money to ............. there's a process for receivership and the old adage blood and stone comes to mind.

What causes a company to go into receivership?

Usually its when they are taken to court over a debt that they can't pay.

So it probably already happened.

Cantstandsya wrote: »

Ireland has quite clearly moved substantially left.

To date, that has manifested as fairly benign pc social movements and trivia that the big MNCs are only too happy to pretend to be on board with. However, we're not far off voting in left wing populists, which could seriously dent the perception of Ireland being business friendly.

This is something i dont get, if the civil war parties sorted the housing crisis Sinn Fein would be at 10% and no major concern, can they not see this?

awec wrote: »

Tax is the reason they are here compared to the UK.

Tax is not the only reason they are here compared to mainland Europe.

You are portraying abject doom. We have had this waffle for years now. Some of them have been here like 30 years. At some point people will stop beating this drum.

People are absolutely losing the run of themselves in hysteria here. We are only a few weeks out from Amazon announcing 1000 new jobs and a brand new building. Google building yet another datacentre.

How much longer is it going to take people to realise that Ireland is actually a great place to do business, one of the best in the world, and while our corp tax arrangements are a part of that, they are not the only part of it.

I am not sure in what manner you believe Ireland's preparation for Brexit has been insufficient. This is a very vague and vacuous statement to make.

I do respect your green jersey arguments. However, at the start of the last recession, we had the same green jersey brigade with we're all in this together nonsense too.

What happened next. They told most of the construction workers who lost their jobs they weren't entitled to social welfare and to either starve or emigrate, they raided the private sector pensions etc. etc. But, I guess they did put €1.6 billion into the AIB pension fund at the time to ensure they were sorted.

Green jersey is fantastic and I applaud it but when push comes to shove, we have a long and proven track record of pushing the private sector workers under the bus while they walk away with whatever's left.

In relation to our preparations for Brexit, we should have acted like the reasonable middleman and tried to bring both sides to the middle ground. The french were already doing a very good job playing hardball so we didn't need to aggravate the UK by taking the EU side on every issue.

MacronvFrugals wrote: »

This is something i dont get, if the civil war parties sorted the housing crisis Sinn Fein would be at 10% and no major concern, can they not see this?

My half-baked guess is that the FF/FG are so riddled by cronyism and reliant on economic trickery that they are incapable of addressing the housing issue without imploding.

Whether it's funnelling tax payers' money to support their mates or pumping up property prices to trick their voters into thinking they have made them wealthier, it's the only way they know how to operate.

awec wrote: »

Maybe, just maybe, the problem is not as simple to solve as Sinn Fein like to portray?

Difficult to solve when your economic religion forbids taking action.