Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

CruelSummer · 22-09-2020 09:59PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Yes I pop in every now and again to remind myself how lucky I am not to live or work with people like those expressing such vile sxxx on this thread , like that last one before yours .

I think that’s pretty unfair and uncalled for re the posters on here. Many are affected by the restrictions, have lost their jobs while trying to support families & expectant spouses. You may not agree with the points of view but calling this thread a joke while so many restrictions are causing havoc on the lives of the population, while only focusing on Covid is not a strategy many support. If you do, that’s fine. No need for insults.

Gael23 · 22-09-2020 09:59PM

Assuming we get a vaccine early next year, how far out are we from a society free of restrictions?

LessOutragePlz · 22-09-2020 10:04PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Assuming we get a vaccine early next year, how far out are we from a society free of restrictions?

https://uk.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-eu-vaccine/update-2-coronavirus-vaccine-makers-see-eu-shield-against-side-effect-claims-idUKL5N2GJ1JO

That's tough to say plenty of them being developed but articles like these don't inspire my confidence in the vaccines that are being produced.

Gael23 · 22-09-2020 10:06PM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

https://uk.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-eu-vaccine/update-2-coronavirus-vaccine-makers-see-eu-shield-against-side-effect-claims-idUKL5N2GJ1JO

That's tough to say plenty of them being developed but articles like these don't inspire my confidence in the vaccines that aren't being produced.

If this indemnity want given a vaccine would take several years

Zebra3 · 22-09-2020 10:08PM

Gradius wrote: »

I wasn't being serious with that story.

So you lied about a family of five dying? :rolleyes:

Go fck yourself so.

On to the ignore list.

Gradius · 22-09-2020 10:10PM

Gael23 wrote: »

Assuming we get a vaccine early next year, how far out are we from a society free of restrictions?

Wow! Someone thinking ahead!

That's a real kettle of fish, that's why you don't hear anything about it

Let's assume the hail Mary actually appears for governments; a vaccine.

First, they're going to have make sure enough people take it in Ireland. That's going to be verrry interesting, to say the least!

You also have to consider how effective the vaccine is. 80%? 92%?

What if it's deemed only effective for 1 year? How will they know that without finding out the hard way? Will it be safe for children below age 7?

Moving beyond Ireland, what if vaccine uptake in France is dismal? What if they start using a different vaccine?

What if there is no vaccine?

The questions pile up. How long would all that take?!

And that's why I think governments need to stop planning for what may come or not come, and start dealing with eradication efforts here and now, not kick the can down the road.

Birdie Num Num · 22-09-2020 10:10PM

normanoffside wrote: »

Yep, I know a family of 5 that had it it too. Ages 20-60. One of them was a bit sick and tested positive so they tested the whole family, all positive.

The sick one was fine 2 days later and none of the rest even had a sniffle all the way through their 2 weeks in Isolation.

Everyone back running and exercising as normal now (barring the light loss of fitness from being cooped up for 14 days).

There is nothing unusual in that. What would be somewhat unusual is one of them having a sniffle. I know of a family, similar profile that had a similar outcome.

I know of maybe 20 - 40 people that had Covid. However out of that number I know 3 who were extremely ill and without serious, lengthy medical intervention all 3 would be dead. That is a fact. As it is, one died and the other two are very fortunate to be alive and they are not old.

CruelSummer · 22-09-2020 10:11PM

Professor Gupta was on Prime Time via video link from the U.K. debating with Tomás Ryan re Covid. She’s not a great speaker but made a few very valid points, including calling into question why Tomás Ryan was suggesting immunity to Covid in the population was based on antibody tests only. She stated he was an immunologist and should be aware of new data re T cell immunity. He also made the claim that Covid kills ‘10 times more people’ than flu which she also called out.
Pity we couldn’t have an Irish doctor in studio debating this on even terms...but he was ‘sacked’ by the HSE for doing so.

https://twitter.com/rte_primetime/status/1308506883305680907?s=21

growleaves · 22-09-2020 10:11PM

Gradius wrote: »

Well of course they're theoretical, not much way around that.

But if you're going to use theoretical plans, at least use the ones that have the greatest chance of success. Not just with containment but very importantly eradication too.

These current plans, worldwide, are the result of biological strategies being watered down with political, lobbyist andeconomic concerns.
They aren't very effective because of that. The real problem is that these ineffective (or less than potentially effective) plans are using up public goodwill. Hence more and more of "it's not so bad", "it doesn't actually exist" and so forth. It's dangerous.

It was unwise to deliberately choose to use containment methods that put people under extreme stress in multiple ways. And then to try to drag it out for longer than six months, stretching to years?

Human beings are not single-cell biological organisms and the whole process of subordinating life to R numbers and other abstractions is wrong. The public should withdraw their support.

CruelSummer · 22-09-2020 10:14PM

Also debated why the PCR testing system may be flawed and picking up people who were infected up to 3 months ago, finally actual issues with our current situation being debated.

https://twitter.com/rte_primetime/status/1308510962882940928?s=21

Gradius · 22-09-2020 10:15PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

So you lied about a family of five dying? :rolleyes:

Go fck yourself so.

On to the ignore list.

I state in one sentence "anecdotes", then the next sentence I presented an analogy of an anecdote. Then I made the point of comparing anecdotes.

It's not my fault you read it wrong. And if I was trying to fool anyone, do you think I'd state "that wasn't serious" straight away?

Relax the cacks.

Gradius · 22-09-2020 10:18PM

growleaves wrote: »

It was unwise to deliberately choose to use containment methods that put people under extreme stress in multiple ways. And then to try to drag it out for longer than six months, stretching to years?

Human beings are not single-cell biological organisms and the whole process of subordinating life to R numbers and other abstractions is wrong. The public should withdraw their support.

It's forgivable considering the sudden nature of it all, initially. But they should have course corrected in like a month or two to some other strategy.

But sticking to a "wait" approach was not a good idea at all!

LessOutragePlz · 22-09-2020 10:24PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

You are wasting your time here, Paityn Fit Lion.
This is an echo chamber and this thread is a joke at this stage on the forum
Last few pages read like a gang of schoolyard bullies who appear to be a shower of self professed 30 to 40 year olds living at home and very bitter about being stopped from doing whatever they want because of the pandemic .
Everyone else is to blame for anything that they feel they are entitled to and is their ' right ' , but are restricted from at the present .
So they come on to this thread every day ( yes , every day ! ) and troll anyone who has a different opinion.
No discussion , or rational one at that , just constant barrage of the same repetitive comments , over and over .
Much more balanced debate to be had elsewhere .

God forbid we have a bit of a positive outlook about the whole situation and know that it only severely effects the very elderly in the vast majority of cases.

No one is blaming anyone else for this we are just being more realistic about the whole thing and asking important questions of the people that want further restrictions and national lockdowns.

Like the economic impact of implementing further restrictions and another lockdown.

Which conveniently always seems to be ignored.

We're all going to have to pay for this, we're using bored money and if you haven't noticed we're still paying off the billions that we've borrowed during the last recession so forgive us for looking at the bigger picture and not crying into our dinner every evening while watching the 6 o clock news.

Plumbthedepths · 22-09-2020 10:39PM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

God forbid we have a bit of a positive outlook about the whole situation and know that it only severely effects the very elderly in the vast majority of cases.

No one is blaming anyone else for this we are just being more realistic about the whole thing and asking important questions of the people that want further restrictions and national lockdowns.

Like the economic impact of implementing further restrictions and another lockdown.

Which conveniently always seems to be ignored.

We're all going to have to pay for this, we're using bored money and if you haven't noticed we're still paying off the billions that we've borrowed during the last recession so forgive us for looking at the bigger picture and not crying into our dinner every evening while watching the 6 o clock news.

You are talking to someone whose income and pension is guaranteed. It does make them bias.

weldoninhio · 22-09-2020 10:41PM

Gradius wrote: »

The longer this thing is allowed to hang around, the greater the chance of adaptive mutation. For example, asymptomatic infection doesn't do the virus much good, so it'll be working out how to get around it.

So, presuming that this is as bad as it gets might be premature.

Virus’ aren’t sentient. They don’t “figure out” anything.

FintanMcluskey · 22-09-2020 10:48PM

As esteemed Professor Luke O Neill has finalised his company sale for €380 million yesterday and released his book today, in solidarity I urge everyone to remember we are all in this together

JRant · 22-09-2020 10:53PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Professor Gupta was on Prime Time via video link from the U.K. debating with Tomás Ryan re Covid. She’s not a great speaker but made a few very valid points, including calling into question why Tomás Ryan was suggesting immunity to Covid in the population was based on antibody tests only. She stated he was an immunologist and should be aware of new data re T cell immunity. He also made the claim that Covid kills ‘10 times more people’ than flu which she also called out.
Pity we couldn’t have an Irish doctor in studio debating this on even terms...but he was ‘sacked’ by the HSE for doing so.

https://twitter.com/rte_primetime/status/1308506883305680907?s=21

Ryan talking about 100's of young children dying if left unchecked. That lad is a complete crackpot.

Goldengirl · 22-09-2020 10:56PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I think that’s pretty unfair and uncalled for re the posters on here. Many are affected by the restrictions, have lost their jobs while trying to support families & expectant spouses. You may not agree with the points of view but calling this thread a joke while so many restrictions are causing havoc on the lives of the population, while only focusing on Covid is not a strategy many support. If you do, that’s fine. No need for insults.

I think it is pretty unfair that people here gang up on posters who don't agree with the herd mentality here .... constantly.
Do you not think that many more people are affected in many ways by these restrictions but still comply because they want to try to improve our situation here and they don't want things to get worse ?
Do you not understand that our economic health hinges on people being able to go to work without getting a virus that has the potential to make them or their families very sick ?
Do you not realise that everyone has been affected by this pandemic and it will continue this way as long as we still have rising cases ?
My post was harsh , yes .
I was calling out the people who seem to think that it is only old people dying or getting sick with Covid.
Or those that reject every opinion, scientific or otherwise if it stops then from going to the pub or restricts their ' freedom ' in any way .
I don't know if my post upset you ?
I am sorry if it did but the nastiness of that previous few posts upset me .
Maybe you didn't read / see them .

JRant · 22-09-2020 10:59PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

Also debated why the PCR testing system may be flawed and picking up people who were infected up to 3 months ago, finally actual issues with our current situation being debated.

https://twitter.com/rte_primetime/status/1308510962882940928?s=21

That professor absolutely schooled Ryan tonight. Ryan talked about South Korea and other countries who suppressed COVID and Miriam lapped it. When the other professor mentioned the 100 million people is danger of starvation she straight away jumped to his defense and said "we" are talking about Ireland only.

Miriam is a dose at the best of times but she kept asking her "how many deaths would you be happy with?". That's weapons grade stupidity.

froog · 22-09-2020 11:03PM

CruelSummer wrote: »

I think that’s pretty unfair and uncalled for re the posters on here. Many are affected by the restrictions, have lost their jobs while trying to support families & expectant spouses. You may not agree with the points of view but calling this thread a joke while so many restrictions are causing havoc on the lives of the population, while only focusing on Covid is not a strategy many support. If you do, that’s fine. No need for insults.

Lets be honest here, for every person genuinely concerned about the economic impacts of this thing on their livelihoods in these threads, there's at least one pure troll who delights in laughing at people who are scared and who mainly is upset they cant have a pint.

LessOutragePlz · 22-09-2020 11:04PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

Do you not realise that everyone has been affected by this pandemic and it will continue this way as long as we still have rising cases ?
I was calling out the people who seem to think that it is only old people dying or getting sick with Covid.
I don't think that you or some others are in that category but the nastiness of that previous few posts upset me .
Maybe you didn't read / see them .

I'm sorry to tell you that facts don't care about your feelings. It is mainly old people that are dying from covid that is not an opinion that is a fact. 93% of the confirmed deaths from covid have been over the age of 65 with 44.81% of that 93% being over 85.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/

So are we not allowed discuss factual information anymore should we base our discussion and debates on emotions and feelings?

Plumbthedepths · 22-09-2020 11:05PM

froog wrote: »

Lets be honest here, for every person genuinely concerned about the economic impacts of this thing on their livelihoods in these threads, there's at least one pure troll who delights in laughing at people who are scared and who mainly is upset they cant have a pint.

Off licenses never closed, so the pint analogy serves no purpose other than an attempt to dismiss anyone you disagree with.

gozunda · 22-09-2020 11:10PM

JRant wrote: »

That professor absolutely schooled Ryan tonight. Ryan talked about South Korea and other countries who suppressed COVID and Miriam lapped it. When the other professor mentioned the 100 million people is danger of starvation she straight away jumped to his defense and said "we" are talking about Ireland only.

Miriam is a dose at the best of times but she kept asking her "how many deaths would you be happy with?". That's weapons grade stupidity.

Watched that and to the Oxford interviewee came across as a bit odd at best. Hardly needs said that each country has to implement its own response to the pandemic and look after their
own population. The 'Will ye not think of the starving people' or wtte came across as a bit trite tbf.

Goldengirl · 22-09-2020 11:11PM

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

I'm sorry to tell you that facts don't care about your feelings. It is mainly old people that are dying from covid that is not an opinion that is a fact. 93% of the confirmed deaths from covid have been over the age of 65 with 44.81% of that 93% being over 85.

https://www.hpsc.ie/a-z/respiratory/coronavirus/novelcoronavirus/casesinireland/epidemiologyofcovid-19inireland/

So are we not allowed discuss factual information anymore should we base our discussion and debates on emotions and feelings?

The nastiness was not just ..that ..it was pure bullying that went on by posters for 3 or 4 pages

froog · 22-09-2020 11:19PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Off licenses never closed, so the pint analogy serves no purpose other than an attempt to dismiss anyone you disagree with.

Let me know what offies you get your pints in, they sound great.

weldoninhio · 22-09-2020 11:19PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

The nastiness was not just ..that ..it was pure bullying that went on by posters for 3 or 4 pages

Did anyone say the hoped another poster got it and thought back on their posts as they struggled for breath on a ventilator?

JRant · 22-09-2020 11:20PM

gozunda wrote: »

Watched that and to the Oxford interviewee came across as a bit odd at best. Hardly needs said that each country has to implement its own response to the pandemic and look after their
own population. The 'Will ye not think of the starving people' or wtte came across as a bit trite tbf.

But that is exactly what she was arguing for. Not the one size fits all restriction model so many countries are implementing. Also, it shouldn't be forgotten that many of the Western countries shutting down their economies not only has adverse effects of their own country but is devastating to many emerging countries that rely heavily on manufacturing cheap goods/clothes.

Ryan wants to shut everything down for a "short" period of time to suppress the virus and then in the next breath says we should follow South Korea and Taiwan (countries that didn't lockdown at all) without a hint of irony.

Plumbthedepths · 22-09-2020 11:23PM

froog wrote: »

Let me know what offies you get your pints in, they sound great.

Off licenses don't sell beer/alcohol, since when?

JRant · 22-09-2020 11:24PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

The nastiness was not just ..that ..it was pure bullying that went on by posters for 3 or 4 pages

Look, Nox is well able to give and take it.

CruelSummer · 22-09-2020 11:24PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

I think it is pretty unfair that people here gang up on posters who don't agree with the herd mentality here .... constantly.
Do you not think that many more people are affected in many ways by these restrictions but still comply because they want to try to improve our situation here and they don't want things to get worse ?
Do you not understand that our economic health hinges on people being able to go to work without getting a virus that has the potential to make them or their families very sick ?
Do you not realise that everyone has been affected by this pandemic and it will continue this way as long as we still have rising cases ?
My post was harsh , yes .
I was calling out the people who seem to think that it is only old people dying or getting sick with Covid.
Or those that reject every opinion, scientific or otherwise if it stops then from going to the pub or restricts their ' freedom ' in any way .
I don't know if my post upset you ?
I am sorry if it did but the nastiness of that previous few posts upset me .
Maybe you didn't read / see them .

Fair enough, I’m just checking in here intermittently are the moment so am missing posts. I personally don’t mind debating with different points of view, I think it’s the best way to help us all find a way forward. It would be a pretty boring world (and thread!) if we all agreed all the time.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings