Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

VG31 · 22-09-2020 08:40PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

"Just a flu" comparisons really undersell the flu at this point.

Very true. When most people say they have "the flu" they mean a bad cold. I got the flu a few years ago and it was not pleasant. I was completely wiped out for two weeks. I struggled to leave the bed and couldn't even read, I had to listen to audiobooks.

lee_baby_simms · 22-09-2020 08:43PM

VG31 wrote: »

I struggled to leave the bed and couldn't even read, I had to listen to audiobooks.

As a parent of two very small children that sounds like heaven to me.

Gradius · 22-09-2020 08:43PM

normanoffside wrote: »

I'm convinced that Asymptomatic people can't possibly be contagious, it makes no sense.
They must have somehow breathed in a bit of virus but beat it of at source, i.e. never become infected- but the PCR tests are so sensitive that they are picking up bits of dead virus in the airways...

There's always an error of margin in all testing.

You can see on this very page that people are clutching for ways out of this, portraying asymptomatic disease as a means to downplay the virus.

It's only natural that this was going to happen. It's an extremely dangerous development, however. It will mean more and more people completely disregarding guidelines and all control going out the window.

This is what happens when you don't present a clear pathway to victory. People make up their own, incorrect or not.

Someone needs to get ahead of this, quick.

FintanMcluskey · 22-09-2020 08:47PM

Gradius wrote: »

This is what happens when you don't present a clear pathway to victory. People make up their own, incorrect or not.

Someone needs to get ahead of this, quick.

Signs on the pub's are reopened

weldoninhio · 22-09-2020 08:56PM

Ginger n Lemon wrote: »

I can see future conversations go something like below

"Why were you wearing these silly face coverings?"

"We were told they were effective."

"But you didnt wear them during March to May when most deaths occured?"

"Yes but that doesnt matter, we did well, we clapped for HSE and saved lives by eating dominos at home".

Not good.

It’d be more along the lines of

“Wow! I saw some of the headlines about Covid, what was it like living through the biggest viral threat of your generation”

“Ah it wasn’t too bad, if it wasn’t for the chicken littles we could have just got on with things”

“But granda, everyone was wearing masks and stuff what was that for??”

“Ah lad, that was in case you caught the deadliest virus In decades and didn’t realise you had it”.

“But grandad, how would you not know you had the deadliest virus in decades??“

“Well son, it only affected a tiny proportion of people. During the so called “second wave” more people were dying in car crashes than of Covid.”

“Wow granda, did they ban cars?”

Gradius · 22-09-2020 09:05PM

weldoninhio wrote: »

It’d be more along the lines of

“Wow! I saw some of the headlines about Covid, what was it like living through the biggest viral threat of your generation”

“Ah it wasn’t too bad, if it wasn’t for the chicken littles we could have just got on with things”

“But granda, everyone was wearing masks and stuff what was that for??”

“Ah lad, that was in case you caught the deadliest virus In decades and didn’t realise you had it”.

“But grandad, how would you not know you had the deadliest virus in decades??“

“Well son, it only affected a tiny proportion of people. During the so called “second wave” more people were dying in car crashes than of Covid.”

“Wow granda, did they ban cars?”

The longer this thing is allowed to hang around, the greater the chance of adaptive mutation. For example, asymptomatic infection doesn't do the virus much good, so it'll be working out how to get around it.

So, presuming that this is as bad as it gets might be premature.

22-09-2020 09:05PM

Gradius wrote: »

There's always an error of margin in all testing.

You can see on this very page that people are clutching for ways out of this, portraying asymptomatic disease as a means to downplay the virus.

It's only natural that this was going to happen. It's an extremely dangerous development, however. It will mean more and more people completely disregarding guidelines and all control going out the window.

This is what happens when you don't present a clear pathway to victory. People make up their own, incorrect or not.

Someone needs to get ahead of this, quick.

I think you're the one clutching, clutching at straws.:rolleyes:
I have spoken to my daughter every single day, on video call, she has been fine, up and about minding her toddler. She is tired (but she is 7 months pregnant too) and congested. Same with her mother in law and the rest of the family, 2 of whom are asymptomatic.

Are you saying I am making this all up, just to downplay the virus? That would be a silly game to play with your nearest and dearest and an unborn baby, simply to make a point! I am delighted none of them are very sick, very mild symptoms and asymptomatic.

Believe me if they were very sick I would be reporting that too, I wouldn't downplay it. Why would I?

Gradius · 22-09-2020 09:11PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think you're the one clutching, clutching at straws.:rolleyes:
I have spoken to my daughter every single day, on video call, she has been fine, up and about minding her toddler. She is tired (but she is 7 months pregnant too) and congested. Same with her mother in law and the rest of the family, 2 of whom are asymptomatic.

Are you saying I am making this all up, just to downplay the virus? That would be a silly game to play with your nearest and dearest and an unborn baby, simply to make a point! I am delighted none of them are very sick, very mild symptoms and asymptomatic. Believe me if they were very sick I would be reporting that too, I wouldn't downplay it. Why would I?

Look up the word "anecdote".

The family across the street from me were all infected, and now all 5 of them are stone cold dead.

Let's see how many people "like" my anecdote versus your anecdote.

It is that difference that shows the mentality of people. They want good news, doesn't matter how flimsy the example may be, they only want a quick way out of this disaster. Your anecdote is a quick way out, because it downplays the impact of the virus.

Zebra3 · 22-09-2020 09:12PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Did you quote the Paul Reid number?
It's actually 16. Hopefully they have a good outcome.

There'll be headcases hoping one or two go.

Zebra3 · 22-09-2020 09:13PM

Gradius wrote: »

Look up the word "anecdote".

The family across the street from me were all infected, and now all 5 of them are stone cold dead.

Let's see how many people "like" my anecdote versus your anecdote.

It is that difference that shows the mentality of people. They want good news, doesn't matter how flimsy the example may be, they only want a quick way out of this disaster. Your anecdote is a quick way out, because it downplays the impact of the virus.

That's terrible to hear.

Was it in the news at the time? I don't recall hearing about it.

22-09-2020 09:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I think you're the one clutching, clutching at straws.:rolleyes:
I have spoken to my daughter every single day, on video call, she has been fine, up and about minding her toddler. She is tired (but she is 7 months pregnant too) and congested. Same with her mother in law and the rest of the family, 2 of whom are asymptomatic.

Are you saying I am making this all up, just to downplay the virus? That would be a silly game to play with your nearest and dearest and an unborn baby, simply to make a point! I am delighted none of them are very sick, very mild symptoms and asymptomatic. Believe me if they were very sick I would be reporting that too, I wouldn't downplay it. Why would I?

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishtimes.com/news/health/i-never-thought-i-would-be-that-sick-young-doctor-on-getting-covid-19-1.4344772%3Fmode%3Damp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishmirror.ie/lifestyle/health/belfast-doctor-dies-suspected-coronavirus-21901267.amp

growleaves · 22-09-2020 09:19PM

Gradius wrote: »

Look up the word "anecdote".

The family across the street from me were all infected, and now all 5 of them are stone cold dead.

Let's see how many people "like" my anecdote versus your anecdote.

It is that difference that shows the mentality of people. They want good news, doesn't matter how flimsy the example may be, they only want a quick way out of this disaster. Your anecdote is a quick way out, because it downplays the impact of the virus.

Sorry Gradius but in your comment just before that you're peddling hypothetical scare-scenarios about a freak mutation. We've seen that on this forum a lot, and in the newspapers.

Covid doesn't wipe out entire families in this country. It ripped through nursing homes due to negligence and kills mostly a small number of elderly. Without scare stories about "possible reinfection" and the like the panic would fizzle out but quick.

Gradius · 22-09-2020 09:23PM

Zebra3 wrote: »

That's terrible to hear.

Was it in the news at the time? I don't recall hearing about it.

I wasn't being serious with that story.

However, a family I do know were all infected. 2 of 5 had to be put on artificial respirators and were close to dying. And to this day, maybe 2/3 months later, 3 of them are reporting side effects such as severe constant tiredness.

This thing isn't mickey mouse. If you got away with very mild symptoms you are lucky. And considering the amount of times you'd need to be lucky over the course of this thing, I'd rather not be throwing the dice unless I need to.

Gradius · 22-09-2020 09:25PM

growleaves wrote: »

Sorry Gradius but in your comment just before that you're peddling hypothetical scare-scenarios about a freak mutation. We've seen that on this forum a lot, and in the newspapers.

Covid doesn't wipe out entire families in this country. It ripped through nursing homes due to negligence and kills mostly a small number of elderly. Without scare stories about "possible reinfection" and the like the panic would fizzle out but quick.

Possible mutation is more likely than not, I know what I'm talking about.

There's a line between scary stories and reality of course, but perspective must be kept.

Goldengirl · 22-09-2020 09:25PM

Paityn Fit Lion wrote: »

I stand by what I said. I would be strongly encouraging and advising any elderly person to stay well clear of pubs or anywhere that there are groups of people in close proximity indoors. Especially as masks will not have been worn.

It's crazy that taking a stance that aligns with experts and medical advice has people ridiculing me. People really need to catch a hold of themselves (not directed at the poster I'm replying to).

I am not comfortable going to a pub and I'm in my mid 30's as I don't want to get the virus or get it and spread it to other family members. So of course I would strongly advise others not to go either especially anyone over 65.

You are wasting your time here.
This is an echo chamber and this thread is a joke at this stage on the forum
Last few pages read like a gang of schoolyard bullies who appear to be a shower of self professed 30 to 40 year olds living at home and very bitter about being stopped from doing whatever they want because of the pandemic .
Everyone else is to blame for anything that they feel they are entitled to and is their ' right ' , but are restricted from at the present .
So they come on to this thread every day ( yes , every day ! ) and troll anyone who has a different opinion.
No discussion , or rational one at that , just constant barrage of the same repetitive comments , over and over .
Much more balanced debate to be had elsewhere .

FintanMcluskey · 22-09-2020 09:25PM

Gradius wrote: »

I wasn't being serious with that story.

However, a family I do know were all infected. 2 of 5 had to be put on artificial respirators and were close to dying. And to this day, maybe 2/3 months later, 3 of them are reporting side effects such as severe constant tiredness.

This thing isn't mickey mouse. If you got away with very mild symptoms you are lucky. And considering the amount of times you'd need to be lucky over the course of this thing, I'd rather not be throwing the dice unless I need to.

No your wrong, but your not the only one who doesnt understand statistics.

You would be very unlucky to get severe symptoms as most have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic.

If you have mild symptoms you not lucky your just the expected outcome.

Some people struggle with that

risteard7 · 22-09-2020 09:26PM

froog wrote: »

19 people in intensive care, fighting for their lives.

Yeah with serious underlying conditions possibly due to a lifetime of smoking or drinking. Or maybe a person with organs that have been working for 80 or 90 years. But hey forget about that & let's blame Covid.

Lundstram · 22-09-2020 09:28PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

You are wasting your time here.
This is an echo chamber and this thread is a joke at this stage on the forum
Last few pages read like a gang of schoolyard bullies who appear to be a shower of self professed 30 to 40 year olds living at home and very bitter about being stopped from doing whatever they want because of the pandemic .
Everyone else is to blame for anything that they feel they are entitled to and is their ' right ' , but are restricted from at the present .
So they come on to this thread every day ( yes , every day ! ) and troll anyone who has a different opinion.
No discussion , or rational one at that , just constant barrage of the same repetitive comments , over and over .
Much more balanced debate to be had elsewhere .

And yet here you are.

growleaves · 22-09-2020 09:28PM

Gradius wrote: »

Possible mutation is more likely than not, I know what I'm talking about.

There's a line between scary stories and reality of course, but perspective must be kept.

Well that statement does not rule out neutral mutations or mutations which lessen the severity of the disease.

If you're saying that mutation into a more lethal strain is more likely than not, I don't believe you and I've never seen anyone make that claim. But feel free to share literature or whatever evidence you have for this

Goldengirl · 22-09-2020 09:33PM

Lundstram wrote: »

And yet here you are.

Yes I pop in every now and again to remind myself how lucky I am not to live or work with people like those expressing such vile sxxx on this thread , like that last one before yours .

Beasty · 22-09-2020 09:33PM

funnydoggy wrote: »

That poster lost all credibility to me, when they suggested I tell my recently widowed, depressed 83 year old grandparent that he shouldn't have two pints with 8 or so friends in a quiet local pub, after not really seeing people for about 7 months.

Jackman25 wrote: »

I'm not sure if that poster is trolling or not but if not the responses to that were scary, like Norman Bates job.

I wonder if there are families in the country now being figuratively held hostage in their homes by people terrified out of their bracket.

bucketybuck wrote: »

In fairness, Nox would consider that to be living the dream.

Discuss the topic, not other posters

Gradius · 22-09-2020 09:35PM

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

No your wrong, but your not the only one who doesnt understand statistics.

You would be very unlucky to get severe symptoms as most have mild symptoms or are asymptomatic.

If you have mild symptoms you not lucky your just the expected outcome.

Some people struggle with that

I didn't mean statistically speaking, more a "count yourself lucky" at all type of thing.

Nermal · 22-09-2020 09:37PM

Gradius wrote: »

They want good news, doesn't matter how flimsy the example may be, they only want a quick way out of this disaster.

The media amplifies the rare bad anecdotes. Why shouldn’t we recount among ourselves the far more frequent good ones?

Gradius · 22-09-2020 09:38PM

growleaves wrote: »

Well that statement does not rule out neutral mutations or mutations which lessen the severity of the disease.

If you're saying that mutation into a more lethal strain is more likely than not, I don't believe you and I've never seen anyone make that claim. But feel free to share literature or whatever evidence you have for this

Mutation at all, is what I mean. And it's not a dice you want to roll as to whether it will be worse it not.

22-09-2020 09:43PM

risteard7 wrote: »

Yeah with serious underlying conditions possibly due to a lifetime of smoking or drinking. Or maybe a person with organs that have been working for 80 or 90 years. But hey forget about that & let's blame Covid.

The people of 80 and 90 don’t get brought to ICU so you can scratch that one. The average age if ICU admissions is quite young from what I remember a few months back and I doubt it’s changed.

MadYaker · 22-09-2020 09:45PM

Odd to see the UK imposing a raft of new restrictions backed up with hefty fines for a virus that isn’t even dangerous. I wonder why they’re doing that??? Maybe they’re listening to NPHET as well

22-09-2020 09:49PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

You are wasting your time here, Paityn Fit Lion.
This is an echo chamber and this thread is a joke at this stage on the forum
Last few pages read like a gang of schoolyard bullies who appear to be a shower of self professed 30 to 40 year olds living at home and very bitter about being stopped from doing whatever they want because of the pandemic .
Everyone else is to blame for anything that they feel they are entitled to and is their ' right ' , but are restricted from at the present .
So they come on to this thread every day ( yes , every day ! ) and troll anyone who has a different opinion.
No discussion , or rational one at that , just constant barrage of the same repetitive comments , over and over .
Much more balanced debate to be had elsewhere .

Hahaha hilarious!

Are you one of those who believes lockdown prevented 200K deaths?

growleaves · 22-09-2020 09:50PM

Gradius wrote: »

Mutation at all, is what I mean. And it's not a dice you want to roll as to whether it will be worse it not.

Most mutations are neutral as you probably know.

As I've said many times before, though people usually get offended rather concede it, the containment methods we're using are theoretical and have no provenance.

Social distancing was modelled on influenza pandemics in a few obscure studies. Lockdown is not based on any studies at all.

People like to put their faith in schemes and they now believe it is risky to not go along with this off-the-cuff scheme because it has the backing of government scientists worldwide.

When people can see covid isn't that deadly then there's a segue into more projections, more hypotheticals.

Spanish Eyes · 22-09-2020 09:52PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Odd to see the UK imposing a raft of new restrictions backed up with hefty fines for a virus that isn’t even dangerous. I wonder why they’re doing that??? Maybe they’re listening to NPHET as well

Maybe they want to open up everything for Christmas and be the dogs blx. They are not sane anymore IMV. Rocking from one thing to the next. Idiots.

But Brexit is the thing they don't want people looking at anymore. So keep the proletariat moaning about not seeing Mummy and Daddy at Christmas, but Brexit will probably kill them anyway.

What a flipping country that is now.

Gradius · 22-09-2020 09:58PM

growleaves wrote: »

Most mutations are neutral as you probably know.

As I've said many times before, though people usually get offended rather concede it, the containment methods we're using are theoretical and have no provenance.

Social distancing was modelled on influenza pandemics in a few obscure studies. Lockdown is not based on any studies at all.

People like to put their faith in schemes and they now believe it is risky to not go along with this off-the-cuff scheme because it has the backing of government scientists worldwide.

When people can see covid isn't that deadly then there's a segue into more projections, more hypotheticals.

Well of course they're theoretical, not much way around that.

But if you're going to use theoretical plans, at least use the ones that have the greatest chance of success. Not just with containment but very importantly eradication too.

These current plans, worldwide, are the result of biological strategies being watered down with political, lobbyist and economic concerns.

They aren't very effective because of that. The real problem is that these ineffective (or less than potentially effective) plans are using up public goodwill. Hence more and more of "it's not so bad", "it doesn't actually exist" and so forth. It's dangerous.

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings