How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

beauf · 20-09-2020 09:54PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

Well when the unions and parents council suggested that in June, I wonder why the DES completely ignored that suggestion.

They haven't ignored it, that just the speed of their response. It will get here just before the next election.

Grandeeod · 20-09-2020 09:55PM

Thierry12 wrote: »

Classy

I know! Unlike you and your re-reg crap spouting baloney.

khalessi · 20-09-2020 09:56PM

beauf wrote: »

They haven't ignored it, that just the speed of their response. It will get here just before the next election.

They had 6 months and haven't done it yet. i don't think they want to supply an alternative as then it might indicate schools have an option to close and they wont be the government that reopened schools and kept them open in a pandemic

beauf · 20-09-2020 09:58PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

We’ll have to agree to disagree on that - there is no excuse from anyone for opting out of engaging with the online learning ad hoc as it was. I’ve done this argument too many times at this stage but I taught to the 26th if June - our official finish date from May to June the fall off rate from parents / children was extremely high. As I’ve said it works both ways.

I hope the school reports reflected that. Some of ours were a work of fiction.

beauf · 20-09-2020 10:00PM

khalessi wrote: »

They had 6 months and haven't done it yet. i don't think they want to supply an alternative as then it might indicate schools have an option to close and they wont be the government that reopened schools and kept them open in a pandemic

FF need something alright. They are vanishing.

meeeeh · 20-09-2020 10:00PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

Actually , no, they don’t . If they did , they wouldn’t send their children in . So many were taken in by DES spin re extra space / staff and the “ enhanced measures “ now being touted .

No I sent my kids to school because I think they are more at risk with me homeschooling them than from Corona. Stats for healthy kids are pretty clear, they will be fine. I can sympathise with those who have health issues in the family and with teachers who have health issues.

I'm actually keeping both of mine at home because the younger one has temperature and upset stomach. She has that every year and she is kept at home but this year her brother is also staying at home just in case. I have no issues with that but after she is 2 days without symptoms it's back to school for both of them (I did call their gp but I don't think she was referred for a test.) Don't think we are that naive to believe proper social distancing is possible for kids, most of us are able to understand basic statistics and know this doesn't overly affect kids.

Mrsmum · 20-09-2020 10:03PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'm on the brink of saying enough is enough for my child. I really can't stand seeing stupid crap from her class mates and their parents. She can't either. The only thing keeping me from pulling the trigger is her needs and the fact that the secondary school is fairly rural. Once again, all I did was educate her about how it was gonna be so we could give it a chance. Its falling apart already.

While I think the majority of parents and kids would chose going to the physical school, believing the benefits outweigh the risks, at the same time it must be so stressful to feel you are going into a death trap as you and your daughter seem to feel. There really should be provision made for children who have issues from compromised family members to fear of being in school etc. It shouldn't be rocket science for that to happen and I can't imagine anyone would be against it.
Just on your daughter, any chance you could drive her to school as the bus is so chaotic and also do you not put any value at all on the fact that NPHET who have all the statistics on school cases and are all medical doctors are not saying to close schools ?

lulublue22 · 20-09-2020 10:21PM

[quote="
Just on your daughter, any chance you could drive her to school as the bus is so chaotic and also do you not put any value at all on the fact that NPHET who have all the statistics on school cases and are all medical doctors are not saying to close schools ?[/quote]

Just from my perspective I did until the whole who constitutes a close contact in a class issue - I genuinely given the physical size of a classroom and the number of children in said classrooms with no masks for over 5h a day don’t understand how the class isn’t considered close contacts. I must have been really unlucky in my career to only work in schools with small classrooms.

ETA as of now I don’t think schools should be closed and hopefully we will not reach a point when we return to a full scale closure. But I do think we need a mire nuanced plan that takes into a/c local conditions with possible localised temporary closures based on the disease trajectory. I’m not confident that the gov have put any thought into what happens if the all return to school plan doesn't work as evidenced by the level 5 shut down the country except for schools.

Grandeeod · 20-09-2020 10:27PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

While I think the majority of parents and kids would chose going to the physical school, believing the benefits outweigh the risks, at the same time it must be so stressful to feel you are going into a death trap as you and your daughter seem to feel. There really should be provision made for children who have issues from compromised family members to fear of being in school etc. It shouldn't be rocket science for that to happen and I can't imagine anyone would be against it.
Just on your daughter, any chance you could drive her to school as the bus is so chaotic and also do you not put any value at all on the fact that NPHET who have all the statistics on school cases and are all medical doctors are not saying to close schools ?

NPHET? My jury is still out on all they say. Nursing homes? Schools? I follow a lot of it and do my best by making certain decisions based on advice. Some of it is bonkers and contradictive. I accept that nobody knows everything and it's difficult for NPHET. I would just like to see some consistency. But I have no time for random re-reg nutjobs on the internet that swarm all over a post that I make.

I would have preferred blended learning in terms of our Secondary schools. My posts here reflect that. The reason it didn't happen are clear too. Unfortunately Boards.ie allows uitter arseholes to simply re-reg and continue their agenda. Probably on both sides of the argument too,

Jinglejangle69 · 20-09-2020 10:28PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

Both of you can fook off as I know your style from other threads that I don't involve myself in.

Can't take the heat....

Grandeeod · 20-09-2020 10:34PM

Jinglejangle69 wrote: »

Can't take the heat....

I can take anything, heat or otherwise. Whatever you have. But I'd prefer to ignore your jingle jangle ould triangle crap that I've witnessed on other threads. You don't interest me. Go away. My only interest is the safety of my child, me and her mother.

niamh247 · 20-09-2020 10:48PM

I'm not sure how we developed this culture of putting our elderly in nursing homes and kids in schools just for care-taking purpose. This is not good. We are not slaves for this economy to work so much that we can't even take care of our elderly and kids. Do we really need to work this much? Is this the progress we made through generations? Heck, we don't even have time to cook our food from whole foods (instead of processed or instant stuff). We are made to shiver at the thought not schooling or not having a job!

Government is clever. It makes sure nursing homes and schools are working, so that the remaining members of the family can all get to work for the "economy" factory.

jrosen · 20-09-2020 10:51PM

niamh247 wrote: »

I'm not sure how we developed this culture of putting our elderly in nursing homes and kids in schools just for care-taking purpose. This is not good. We are not slaves for this economy to work so much that we can't even take care of our elderly and kids. Do we really need to work this much? Is this the progress we made through generations? Heck, we don't even have time to cook our food from whole foods (instead of processed or instant stuff). We are made to shiver at the thought not schooling or not having a job!

We have developed hugely in that we can afford a choice in what we do.

Locotastic · 20-09-2020 10:55PM

niamh247 wrote: »

I'm not sure how we developed this culture of putting our elderly in nursing homes and kids in schools just for care-taking purpose. This is not good. We are not slaves for this economy to work so much that we can't even take care of our elderly and kids. Do we really need to work this much? Is this the progress we made through generations? Heck, we don't even have time to cook our food from whole foods (instead of processed or instant stuff). We are made to shiver at the thought not schooling or not having a job!

Government is clever. It makes sure nursing homes and schools are working, so that the remaining members of the family can all get to work for the "economy'.

Speak for yourself. You're assuming how the rest of society lives.

irishblessing · 20-09-2020 11:06PM

lulublue22 wrote: »

you seem to think schools are an autonomous entity- schools are bound by the rules and procedures of the dep of ed. And yes principals and teachers have been looking for a remote learning plan since the schools closed. It wasn’t considered as the gov has committed to a full reopening what ever the cost.

This isn't true. My kids school has selected a remote learning software and the letter home told us it is in testing phase and the teachers are currently training on it. It's to be used in the class and for remote learning if needed.

byhookorbycrook · 20-09-2020 11:12PM

irishblessing wrote: »

This isn't true. My kids school has selected a remote learning software and the letter home told us it is in testing phase and the teachers are currently training on it. It's to be used in the class and for remote learning if needed.

The DES had time to develop its own platform and hasn’t . Schools are left foundering trying to buy into commercial platforms , leading to a wide disparity between schools once again . And guess who pays for the commercial platforms ( hint , not the DES)

irishblessing · 20-09-2020 11:14PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

The DES had time to develop its own platform and hasn’t . Schools are left foundering trying to buy into commercial platforms , leading to a wide disparity between schools once again . And guess who pays for the commercial platforms ( hint , not the DES)

Completely agree. There should be a nationally funded and supported remote learning plan. 100%.

Smacruairi · 20-09-2020 11:15PM

That's the sad thing. You have companies like wriggle swooping in, charging 700 for an ipad with some **** software uploaded on to it and parents and schools have to fooot the bill. It's disgraceful.

jrosen · 20-09-2020 11:23PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

That's the sad thing. You have companies like wriggle swooping in, charging 700 for an ipad with some **** software uploaded on to it and parents and schools have to fooot the bill. It's disgraceful.

So true

lulublue22 · 20-09-2020 11:36PM

irishblessing wrote: »

This isn't true. My kids school has selected a remote learning software and the letter home told us it is in testing phase and the teachers are currently training on it. It's to be used in the class and for remote learning if needed.

Possibly google teams / seasaw etc . Good for your school but this is exactly what happened the last time and it was a disaster. Local arrangements do not work - Some schools have the money and can buy school wide access to google teams or possibly put all children on ixl for maths other schools don’t. It can depend on how strong the PA is at fundraising or how the ICT budget is allocated etc.
To counter this discrepancy in resources and or skill deficits and to provide equality of access across the board there needs to be a clear centralised plan with guidelines around use of apps such as zoom etc. Hardware needs to be readily available to staff and children. Schools in disadvantage areas need to be catered for as do children in special ed.
Schools went on a solo run in March as we were told at 12 pm that we were closing at end if school day for 2 weeks. When it became clear that it would be more than 2 weeks schools began to do what they could. It wasn’t until 6- 8 weeks later that the dep said whats everyone doing era ye are grand carry on. Cue a **** storm of parents giving out about lack of engagement and how ****e teachers and schools were. For those if us who worked solidly with often limited resources it was and still is a right slap in the face.
Solo runs by schools are not sufficient or acceptable during a nation wide shut down in the midst of a global pandemic.

BonsaiKitten · 20-09-2020 11:51PM

irishblessing wrote: »

This isn't true. My kids school has selected a remote learning software and the letter home told us it is in testing phase and the teachers are currently training on it. It's to be used in the class and for remote learning if needed.

Yes but this is not a national remote learning plan, which is what schools are looking for from government. It's schools going on a solo run again.

Now, I think every teacher in every school should have some kind of plan in place - I know I do myself - but it's just not good enough that we are being left to make it up as we go along. Not saying that they need to mandate Seesaw vs Teams vs Google classroom vs Dojo but we need some kind of concrete guidance.

irishblessing · 21-09-2020 07:21AM

I only disagreed with the bit about the schools not being an autonomous entity, in regards to them setting up their own thing. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.

I completely agree with these last posts though. Schools being left to their own devices to figure it out and the funding is not good enough, in fact it's total bs. The lack of a structured and supported remote learning plan has been my main complaint since I started posting here, I just think it's a complete disgrace.

@lulublue - where does the ICT budget come from & how much - is that allocated from the fundraising?

lulublue22 · 21-09-2020 08:18AM

irishblessing wrote: »

I only disagreed with the bit about the schools not being an autonomous entity, in regards to them setting up their own thing. Sorry I wasn't clear on that.

I completely agree with these last posts though. Schools being left to their own devices to figure it out and the funding is not good enough, in fact it's total bs. The lack of a structured and supported remote learning plan has been my main complaint since I started posting here, I just think it's a complete disgrace.

@lulublue - where does the ICT budget come from & how much - is that allocated from the fundraising?

Not in management so no idea re amount of ICT budget/ grant nor if it was a one off or is it yearly. we spent ours on interactive white boards and teacher laptops. Fund raising can be for anything.
We have a plan ready to go if needs be. I would think most schools do but again unless there is a centralised remote learning plan then there will continue to be inequality in delivery of the curriculum - leading to more dissatisfaction and upset.

byhookorbycrook · 21-09-2020 08:24AM

During lockdown the DES made a big show of allocating “ extra funding” for children from disadvantaged backgrounds. Funnily enough it was a) from funding already allocated- ie nothing extra and b) not enough to buy more than one piece of hardware .

wirelessdude01 · 21-09-2020 08:55AM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

During lockdown the DES made a big show of allocating “ extra funding” for children from disadvantaged backgrounds. Funnily enough it was a) from funding already allocated- ie nothing extra and b) not enough to buy more than one piece of hardware .

All about the optics. Educators know what's going on but Joe and Josephine public see and hear the headline figures that are bandied about and then wonder why we are 'whinging', why are the educators saying things aren't great.

Deliverance XXV · 21-09-2020 10:39AM

The lack of a co-ordinated plan from the Dept. of Education is disheartening. If education is as important as they say, then they should be issuing out grants, standards and compliance guidelines for schools in the event of 'Plan B' where schools cannot remain open. Currently, schools will be in the same position as the last time they had to remain closed where each school does their own thing (at varying levels of success) leading to an inconsistent approach and nearly impossible to monitor school performance. To me, that is poor direction and planning from the Dept. of Education.

Forward planning would have been the government engaging with key online providers such as Microsoft, Google and Seesaw to ensure onboarding is easy for Irish registered schools. Not even to help remote learning in terms of a pandemic but to engage proactively in technology and give more powerful tools to schools.

My wife is a principal and I work in IT so it was easy for me to get them all setup and configured with Microsoft Office 365 for Education which means they get Teams for free. They can launch virtual classrooms this way if needed. They can also communicate with other staff much easier in terms of calls, IMs, meetings, etc. Additional added benefits are cloud based emails, cloud storage, collaborative working and Microsoft office software (web based for the free plan - the paid plan is VERY cheap for schools). Google also have their own similar offering which is very popular as it works hand-in-hand with Chromebooks. The only cost was buying a domain name for their school.

Will Yam · 21-09-2020 11:55AM

niamh247 wrote: »

I'm suggesting to move the schools online until we figure out this virus better, as is being done in other sensible countries. I don't see why this can't be done.

So your answer is yes - let’s shut the schools.

Until we figure out this virus better. - would the figuring include increased pay for some or all teachers?

Will Yam · 21-09-2020 12:01PM

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

As a teacher - and this generally goes against what I’d normally say , get her to take photos and upload them . So many seem to believe schools are safe , but they really ,really aren’t .

Where is safe?

Will Yam · 21-09-2020 12:11PM

kowloonkev wrote: »

Because the numbers in hospital will eventually rise to an unmanageable level where they actually can't cope and people deathly ill won't be able to have a fighting chance. They won't get a bed in ICU or even oxygen maybe.

That's how the virus works if you basically ignore it. Use your brain.

HSE workers have done an amazing job and don't deserve this negligence from the government.

I'm not even saying schools should be closed. But the fact they're not even wearing masks is insanity and will definitely lead to huge spread in the community. And it's unnecessary.

I fully understand how the virus works, thank you.

But what is unclear is whether the schools are causing the virus or not.

How many cases have been in schools?

Treppen · 21-09-2020 12:19PM

Will Yam wrote: »

I fully understand how the virus works, thank you.

But what is unclear is whether the schools are causing the virus or not.

How many cases have been in schools?

HSE actively telling teachers and students to ignore confirmed close contact cases in schools° So numbers will be hard to get and go on anecdote only.

https://www.rte.ie/amp/1165854/?fbclid=IwAR3Sj00WD4NT06ADC_DGw6jFEDXoXSquVGKwZFuhCN2gCIzuERLa_pszeMo

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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