Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

GT89 · 20-09-2020 01:14AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Just having a look at this 5 level plan online.

Looking at level 5, which I presume is the worst level. Can anyone explain why schools remain open at level 5?

It's 5 levels of treason if u ask me

Wolf359f · 20-09-2020 01:18AM

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Just having a look at this 5 level plan online.

Looking at level 5, which I presume is the worst level. Can anyone explain why schools remain open at level 5?

This 5 point plan started as a 6 point plan (2.5 for Dublin), it's now a 7 point plan (3.5 for Dublin), by the time we get to stage 5..... jesus we'll be well into a 50+ point plan. It will be 5.2 and schools be open, 5.3 only primary, 5.4 primary schools going hybrid, 5.5 remote only... and so on.

Queried · 20-09-2020 01:30AM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Oh this whole thread survives by people filling in the blanks!
On the transparency, I can't disagree. It has to be open and honest and stop the worry and fear, but also, if cases start coming from schools, teachers and parents need to know.

From reading the RTE article, and it ending with pay issues. Teachers will not get any sympathy from that demand. There's over 200,000 still willing to work, but can't. Over 400,000 couldn't work, while teachers were on their 2/3 month break with full pay etc... So you can see where the general public may be against you!

I hear you with regards to people wanting to work and not being able to and it's awful. I'm so grateful to be employed and in the profession I'm in, particularly as I really do love my job. I suppose it's just the general idea from the public that teachers have no desire to work and contribute to society during these times. It's not true for the vast majority, I personally would just like to feel safer at work. I'll be there every day regardless but I do feel disappointed by the lack of acknowledgement of the reality regarding schools.

Edit: I'm a primary teacher and not in the union that's planning a strike, just to clarify.

spookwoman · 20-09-2020 01:38AM

thelad95 wrote: »

This may come as a shock to you but elderly people already in care facilities are often not sent to hospital for treatment as to do so would more than likely only prolong their and their families' agony as they have very little chance of survival. This was done regularly with patients for all sorts of reasons such as the flu or a chest infection and has been done for centuries. My own grandmother was in this exact situation, she had a chest infection that it was clear she was not going to recover from and she was simply made comfortable at home.

The amount of people who have crawled out of the woodwork as barstool doctors and epidemiologists and tried to criticize experts opinions when in reality it takes decades of experience to start making informed decisions on these things.

There is a difference between pre covid times and now. The handling of nursing homes was a disaster. Families were told they would no be sending residents to hospital if they got sick. HSE told homes to manage the disease themselves and "only transfer residents to hospitals where this would “confer additional benefit". We know some doctors would not even got into the homes to sign death certs and it was left to nurses.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-and-care-homes-six-key-questions-1.4231703

We also know that some patients were sent back to the homes because they did not meet the criteria. The homes were looking for help because their own staff were out sick and they could hardly look after their residents.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hospital-sent-patient-back-to-nursing-home-during-outbreak-1.4311916

What chance of survival was there were all this was happening. Residents in these homes should have been given the access to hospital care as others.

Wolf359f · 20-09-2020 01:52AM

spookwoman wrote: »

There is a difference between pre covid times and now. The handling of nursing homes was a disaster. Families were told they would no be sending residents to hospital if they got sick. HSE told homes to manage the disease themselves and "only transfer residents to hospitals where this would “confer additional benefit". We know some doctors would not even got into the homes to sign death certs and it was left to nurses.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/covid-19-and-care-homes-six-key-questions-1.4231703

We also know that some patients were sent back to the homes because they did not meet the criteria. The homes were looking for help because their own staff were out sick and they could hardly look after their residents.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/hospital-sent-patient-back-to-nursing-home-during-outbreak-1.4311916

What chance of survival was there were all this was happening. Residents in these homes should have been given the access to hospital care as others.

So nurses can sign death certs now, or could they always?
My understanding is Nurses could sign a death cert under certain situations before covid, as long as a doctor believed the patient may die within 2 weeks from their illness.

And for the record, there was nursing home patients brought to hospital, they were not left to die alone as some state.

caveat emptor · 20-09-2020 01:56AM

We can wash our hands all we want.
Just open the windows.

https://twitter.com/jljcolorado/status/1307425058852225024?s=21

20-09-2020 02:30AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

We can wash our hands all we want.
Just open the windows.

https://twitter.com/jljcolorado/status/1307425058852225024?s=21

I've been banging that drum for quite some time. I'm amazed how little focus there is on ventilation.

JP Liz V1 · 20-09-2020 02:32AM

JJayoo wrote: »

So 500 cases in ireland today?

Spleodar · 20-09-2020 03:03AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been banging that drum for quite some time. I'm amazed how little focus there is on ventilation.

I'm still flabbergasted that there's no serious guidance on things like air conditioning systems, and while they're not common in homes in Ireland, they are fairly common in retail, restaurants, cafes, offices etc and HEPA filtration would be pretty rare from what I know of them.

Also what's been done about ventilation on public transport? Do we know? Has there been any HVAC engineering and disease control experts working on that, as there have been at Boeing and Airbus and the airlines?

All I know is I'm still encountering cafes with doors closed, windows closed and recirculating air conditioning running at full blast.

Cool air blowing in your face, doesn't mean it's fresh air.

I've actually wondered if air conditioner prevalence has anything to do with the scale of the outbreak in the US and in Spain and Italy. They're quite a lot more likely to use both chilling air air-conditioning for both cooling and heating in Italy and Spain these days, so it's very likely to have been running as reverse-mode heat pumps in a lot of buildings earlier in the year and as chilling systems later in the summer.

The US uses forced air heating/cooling as standard in most of the country with more extreme climates e.g. NYC

A lot of mitigation could be done by just opening doors and windows, and wearing a coat here and exception that it's not going to be as warm in retail / restaurant settings as we might have bene used to.

Other than for a very brief period now and again in mid winter, we've a very very mild climate.

caveat emptor · 20-09-2020 03:45AM

Spleodar wrote: »

I'm still flabbergasted that there's no serious guidance on things like air conditioning systems, and while they're not common in homes in Ireland, they are fairly common in retail, restaurants, cafes, offices etc and HEPA filtration would be pretty rare from what I know of them.

Also what's been done about ventilation on public transport? Do we know? Has there been any HVAC engineering and disease control experts working on that, as there have been at Boeing and Airbus and the airlines?

All I know is I'm still encountering cafes with doors closed, windows closed and recirculating air conditioning running at full blast.

Cool air blowing in your face, doesn't mean it's fresh air.

I've actually wondered if air conditioner prevalence has anything to do with the scale of the outbreak in the US and in Spain and Italy. They're quite a lot more likely to use both chilling air air-conditioning for both cooling and heating in Italy and Spain these days, so it's very likely to have been running as reverse-mode heat pumps in a lot of buildings earlier in the year and as chilling systems later in the summer.

The US uses forced air heating/cooling as standard in most of the country with more extreme climates e.g. NYC

A lot of mitigation could be done by just opening doors and windows, and wearing a coat here and exception that it's not going to be as warm in retail / restaurant settings as we might have bene used to.

Other than for a very brief period now and again in mid winter, we've a very very mild climate.

I agree with most of that however if air con was solely responsible we would see a massive difference Between aircon / non air on countries in influenza each year. We don’t.

Atlantic Dawn · 20-09-2020 03:48AM

Deleted User wrote: »

I've been banging that drum for quite some time. I'm amazed how little focus there is on ventilation.

We have the Japanese DART's they bought with no windows that open because they have the most superior AC on the face of the earth but if the driver or support team doesn't have the AC turned on the carriages are nothing more than death wagons killing those about to be die.

Spleodar · 20-09-2020 04:18AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

I agree with most of that however if air con was solely responsible we would see a massive difference Between aircon / non air on countries in influenza each year. We don’t.

It isn’t influenza, as is regularly pointed out. It’s much more contagious.

When have you ever seen a mass outbreak of influenza in the recirculating air of a meat plant cold room? I’ve never heard of that happening.

This thing isn’t behaving like a flu virus, because it isn’t one.

It seems much more easily picked up through airborne transmission.

mandrake04 · 20-09-2020 04:30AM

Spleodar wrote: »

I'm still flabbergasted that there's no serious guidance on things like air conditioning systems, and while they're not common in homes in Ireland, they are fairly common in retail, restaurants, cafes, offices etc and HEPA filtration would be pretty rare from what I know of them.

Also what's been done about ventilation on public transport? Do we know? Has there been any HVAC engineering and disease control experts working on that, as there have been at Boeing and Airbus and the airlines?

All I know is I'm still encountering cafes with doors closed, windows closed and recirculating air conditioning running at full blast.

Cool air blowing in your face, doesn't mean it's fresh air.

I've actually wondered if air conditioner prevalence has anything to do with the scale of the outbreak in the US and in Spain and Italy. They're quite a lot more likely to use both chilling air air-conditioning for both cooling and heating in Italy and Spain these days, so it's very likely to have been running as reverse-mode heat pumps in a lot of buildings earlier in the year and as chilling systems later in the summer.

The US uses forced air heating/cooling as standard in most of the country with more extreme climates e.g. NYC

A lot of mitigation could be done by just opening doors and windows, and wearing a coat here and exception that it's not going to be as warm in retail / restaurant settings as we might have bene used to.

Other than for a very brief period now and again in mid winter, we've a very very mild climate.

Here in Sydney/NSW aircon is used all year round for both heating and cooling, out of total of 4000 cases since 25th Jan about 1/2 of those cases never made it out of the hotel quarantine and the rest were related to cruise ships, Victorians and contacts of those. 300 are unknowns.

The problem is not meat factories, schools or aircon it’s cunts walking off a plane and spreading the virus, if you cut the source then it’s a less of a problem.

CalamariFritti · 20-09-2020 08:38AM

Because with all the mask this hand wash that dont gather here at the end they're still only faffing around like a man with a tight beam torch in a dark basement. They dont actually know whats happening where to what degree. Nobody knows. We're just throwing stuff at the wall which we think makes sense and hope some of it sticks. I get it not knowing doesnt mean you shouldn't be doing anything at all. But we shouldn't forget that most of it is still conjecture. Educated guesses.

CiarraiManc · 20-09-2020 09:03AM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

So closing Supermarkets, essential business is ok? my challenging such a comment is just a different opinion? Dude when you wish to have some credibility and longevity as a WUM you also have to have some cop on. Sadly you are lacking. Try harder next time ask some of the more established WUM for pointers. Try the lad that posts false tweets he has a loyal following.

I guess that spiel of nonsense answers my question

Funsterdelux · 20-09-2020 09:06AM

GT89 wrote: »

It's 5 levels of treason if u ask me

You cant spell treason without reason

pjohnson · 20-09-2020 09:08AM

The Brexit-esque stubborness of keeping schools open no matter what will surely have a slight issue if teachers strike?

Or will the unemployed be drafted in as teachers or the plan be to dump off the kids at school and hope they teach themselves?

caveat emptor · 20-09-2020 09:12AM

Can’t see how it could spread in a pub in all honesty.

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1307512001812475904?s=21

Funsterdelux · 20-09-2020 09:12AM

pjohnson wrote: »

The Brexit-esque stubborness of keeping schools open no matter what will surely have a slight issue if teachers strike?

Or will the unemployed be drafted in as teachers or the plan be to dump off the kids at school and hope they teach themselves?

Ship the pub and restaurant workers from Dublin around the country to all the schools to babysit teach our kids

Thierry12 · 20-09-2020 09:16AM

Spleodar wrote: »

It isn’t influenza, as is regularly pointed out. It’s much more contagious.

When have you ever seen a mass outbreak of influenza in the recirculating air of a meat plant cold room? I’ve never heard of that happening.

This thing isn’t behaving like a flu virus, because it isn’t one.

It seems much more easily picked up through airborne transmission.

Not true

Every child in the country had some kind of flu last year and most adults, everyone was sick, way more contagious than Covid and we have vaccines for that

If Covid was so contagious in the real world, no half assed lockdown would have worked.

My own opinion is only a few are actually contagious

We need a test for contagious covid people, not a test to see if you have it.

We will beat it then

Funsterdelux · 20-09-2020 09:18AM

Thierry12 wrote: »

Not true

Every child in the country had some kind of flu last year and most adults, everyone was sick, way more contagious than Covid and we have vaccines for that

If Covid was so contagious in the real world, no half assed lockdown would have worked.

My own opinion is only a few are actually contagious

We need a test for contagious covid people, not a test to see if you have it.

We will beat it then

Eh no they didnt

Jim_Hodge · 20-09-2020 09:20AM

GT89 wrote: »

It's 5 levels of treason if u ask me

Just as well nobody asked you, then.

Peter Flynt · 20-09-2020 09:20AM

The issue on schools was inevitable. Hairdressers taking one client at a time, no one allowed in McDonalds (take outs only), queues back outside Tesco ... and teachers are in classes of 30 and the HSE do not want to test students who are close contacts to other students who have tested positive. In primary schools, where the facts are showing that younger kids are contracting and spreading the virus, masks are not even worn.

Why on Earth would anyone object to teachers using their union, as is their right, to raise their concerns and objections?

Sadly there are many who hate teachers in Ireland and it is probably jealousy because of their holidays. Many don't care and are not in the slighest bit bothered.

But teachers are mainly taking action for society this time. Sure they're on the frontline but, hey, you're not getting away with such blatant negligence at home if you are close to someone attending schools.

DangerScouse · 20-09-2020 09:25AM

It's very possible there will no vaccine next year. It's time this country had a serious discussion about zero covid so we can save both lives and our economy.

Funsterdelux · 20-09-2020 09:33AM

DangerScouse wrote: »

It's very possible there will no vaccine next year. It's time this country had a serious discussion about zero covid so we can save both lives and our economy.

Sars Cov 2 doesnt seem to be mutating as fast as say flu, it has had a slight mutation that hasnt affected its severity but maybe made it more transmissible but in doing so may have made it more susceptible to a vaccine

mutant-virus-should-we-be-worried-sars-cov-2-changing-covid

Gruffalux · 20-09-2020 09:34AM

Way back at some point last night I saw someone mention Iceland, so I gots to thinking, how is old Iceland doing these days. Since they have been rather efficient from the start and have had only 10 deaths. They have done a fair amount of testing of general population, and have researched well the longevity of antibodies.
They have a population of 370,000 or so, and 2,300 cases. That would be in or around the same vicinity percentage wise as our found and declared cases (although we had lots lots more and I could not say the same for iceland who have had a better ability to get closer to the reality). 10 deaths is way lower than us percentage wise (population). BTW that's an IFR of 0.43%.
Anyways, lo and behold, in the past few days they are having a problem because of a pub called the Irishman. As far as I can make out they decided to swiftly shut down all pubs this weekend for 4 days to put a stop to the superspreading shenanigans and perhaps have a minute to work things out.

https://grapevine.is/news/2020/09/18/pubs-to-close-over-weekend-due-to-covid-rise/

A huge rise in Covid-19 cases over the last few days has prompted epidemiologist Þórólfur Guðnason to propose the closure of all bars and clubs in Reykjavík over the coming weekend, Vísir reports.

Þórólfur says that the closure will not apply to restaurants that have a liquor licence, and the situation will be reassessed after the weekend.

In the last three days, 53 people have been diagnosed with coronavirus, with 21 diagnosed yesterday alone. Only 14 of those diagnosed were in quarantine at the time.

Twelve of these cases have been linked to the Irishman Pub and it is believed that many were exposed on September 11th. Although not all of these individuals were interconnected, in some cases there are connections between individuals, and the Civil Defence is urging everyone who was at the Irishman between 16:00 and 23:00 on that day to register for sampling as soon as they can today:

“It should be noted that there is no indication that there was a lack of infection control at the venue in question. There is always a risk of infection where a large number of people congregate. It is necessary to track down those who were there to prevent further spread of the virus. Those who visited the above-mentioned place on the day in question between 16:00 and 23:00 are therefore invited to attend the sampling. Today, Friday 18 September, those who were there can go to this website and register for sampling.”

The Chief Epidemiologist and the Civil Defense are asking those who visited the Irishman Pub on the day in question to be extra careful until they have been tested and a negative result has been obtained.

Pubs and entertainment venues will shut
The Minister of Health, Svandís Svavarsdóttir, has agreed to Þórólfur’s proposal, and entertainment venues and pubs in the capital area will be closed for four days from today until Monday 21 September. The closure covers pubs and entertainment venues in Reykjavík, Mosfellsbær, Hafnarfjörður, Garðabær, Kópavogur, Kjósarhreppur and Seltjarnarnes.

Thierry12 · 20-09-2020 09:36AM

DangerScouse wrote: »

It's very possible there will no vaccine next year. It's time this country had a serious discussion about zero covid so we can save both lives and our economy.

Government might as well post a year supply of Vitamin D and slimfast shakes to every house in the country at this stage

Yearly NCT for humans should been brought in years ago tbf

We monitor livestock health better here

Funsterdelux · 20-09-2020 09:37AM

Gruffalox wrote: »

Way back at some point last night I saw someone mention Iceland, so I gots to thinking, how is old Iceland doing these days. Since they have been rather efficient from the start and have had only 10 deaths. They have done a fair amount of testing of general population, and have researched well the longevity of antibodies.
They have a population of 370,000 or so, and 2,300 cases. That would be in or around the same vicinity percentage wise as our found and declared cases (although we had lots lots more and I could not say the same for iceland who have had a better ability to get closer to the reality). 10 deaths is way lower than us percentage wise (population). BTW that's an IFR of 0.43%.
Anyways, lo and behold, in the past few days they are having a problem because of a pub called the Irishman. As far as I can make out they decided to swiftly shut down all pubs this weekend for 4 days to put a stop to the superspreading shenanigans and perhaps have a minute to work things out.

https://grapevine.is/news/2020/09/18/pubs-to-close-over-weekend-due-to-covid-rise/

More Irish pub bashing

drunkmonkey · 20-09-2020 09:37AM

Funsterdelux wrote: »

You cant spell treason without reason

He has a point though..

If I borrowed €1000 from you and instead of giving your money back presented a 5 point plan that didn't involve you getting the €1000 back would you still give me the loan?

Away With The Fairies · 20-09-2020 09:41AM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Can’t see how it could spread in a pub in all honesty.

https://twitter.com/drericding/status/1307512001812475904?s=21

That is disgusting

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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