Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

19-09-2020 09:58PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Any thought for the economy in all this.

Didn’t say I agreed with it. But it’s becoming clear that the only games in town as far as the government are concerned are COVID case numbers and schools.

Hawthorn Tree · 19-09-2020 10:04PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Any thought for the economy in all this.

The economy will be devastated. The real impacts will not be felt until 2021 and 2022. Many people are already starting to feel real pain from loss of income. There will be widespread redundancies next year when the Covid payments end. The coalition of chaos seems to be ignoring the elephant in the room.

igCorcaigh · 19-09-2020 10:09PM

As this is an artificial recession, I'm hoping the pent up demand will stimulate the economy post restrictions next year.

I'm also aware of a decrease in demand and income from those affected by unemployment. Hopefully this is short lived, and there will be a global or European stimulus fund.

19-09-2020 10:10PM

Hawthorn Tree wrote: »

The economy will be devastated. The real impacts will not be felt until 2021 and 2022. Many people are already starting to feel real pain from loss of income. There will be widespread redundancies next year when the Covid payments end. The coalition of chaos seems to be ignoring the elephant in the room.

And there’ll be no opportunity for emigration for young people like in previous times, as everywhere will be in the same boat. An unfathomable social crisis is in the making

CiarraiManc · 19-09-2020 10:12PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And there’ll be no opportunity for emigration for young people like in previous times, as everywhere will be in the same boat. An unfathomable social crisis is in the making

I'd rather that then have some darwinist nightmare like some here

igCorcaigh · 19-09-2020 10:15PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And there’ll be no opportunity for emigration for young people like in previous times, as everywhere will be in the same boat. An unfathomable social crisis is in the making

Not at all. The hospitality sector will bounce back. There will be a huge surge in spending next year.

Strumms · 19-09-2020 10:16PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don’t think the government care about the economy or anything anymore. Covid is now the only issue.

At least Dublin will now prove that lockdown doesn’t work.

Lockdown is like social distancing. Both work, been proven to work, but when people disregard either or both... that’s when things get bad, are getting bad.

igCorcaigh · 19-09-2020 10:17PM

This is what is needed. And monetary support will be given to those on low income.

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1307424336593203202?s=19

speckle · 19-09-2020 10:17PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don’t think the government care about the economy or anything anymore. Covid is now the only issue.

At least Dublin will now prove that lockdown doesn’t work.

Unless they waited til the case numbers were stabilizing anyway,(because of government dithering) which makes it easier to push cases down with restrictions, then they will say oh look what works... really depends on whether kids, they transmit onwards or not, at a rate that increases household and community(we don't know where it comes from at all because we are not funded enough to be able to check) cases.

John O.Groats · 19-09-2020 10:20PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don’t think the government care about the economy or anything anymore. Covid is now the only issue.

At least Dublin will now prove that lockdown doesn’t work.

Only if too many ****ing morons ignore the restrictions and continue to hold house parties etc. and ignore mask wearing and social distancing which has largely contributed to the situation that Dublin now finds itself in.

growleaves · 19-09-2020 10:21PM

Strumms wrote: »

Lockdown is like social distancing. Both work, been proven to work, but when people disregard either or both... that’s when things get bad, are getting bad.

They haven't been proven at all. If the cases correlate with assumptions we say 'proven' and if they don't correlate with assumptions we say 'oh people didn't lock down properly'.

Un-falsifiable. No objective criteria. No matter what happens it will be interpreted away.

growleaves · 19-09-2020 10:24PM

John O.Groats wrote: »

Only if too many ****ing morons ignore the restrictions and continue to hold house parties etc. and ignore mask wearing and social distancing which has largely contributed to the situation that Dublin now finds itself in.

Getting the excuses in early I see.

niallo27 · 19-09-2020 10:25PM

John O.Groats wrote: »

Only if too many ****ing morons ignore the restrictions and continue to hold house parties etc. and ignore mask wearing and social distancing which has largely contributed to the situation that Dublin now finds itself in.

Listen I fully agree with masks but nobody wore them during the summer and our cases plummeted so I don't think the tiny minority not wearing them now is a major cause of cases rising. So if people still have house parties do we continue to leave 50k people out of work or do we change tact.

growleaves · 19-09-2020 10:28PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Listen I fully agree with masks but nobody wore them during the summer and our cases plummeted so I don't think the tiny minority not wearing them now is a major cause of cases rising. So if people still have house parties do we continue to leave 50k people out of work or do we change tact.

Niallo there's no point in arguing, none of these people are even looking for any demonstration of causality between the restrictions and outcomes. Anything can be interpreted away with 'ah but if X had only done Y!'

wadacrack · 19-09-2020 10:28PM

growleaves wrote: »

They haven't been proven at all. If the cases correlate with assumptions we say 'proven' and if they don't correlate with assumptions we say 'oh people didn't lock down properly'.

Un-falsifiable. No objective criteria. No matter what happens it will be interpreted away.

Its been proven in a number of countries.People listening to too much Ivor Cummins. The people who argue that their was no point in doing a lockdown as cases will just trend upwards when you open up I can understand but a better scenario is lockdown's of some sort at different stages to slow down transmission and by time for a vaccine and better treatment. Its very hard economically socially and mentally for people nut the alternative of just letting the virus spread hasn't worked either and is highly likely to much worse as seen in Belarus and Sweden. Theirs a reason the UK changed their initial approach, the virus is more serious that they anticipated and nothing has changed.

Ficheall · 19-09-2020 10:28PM

growleaves wrote: »

They haven't been proven at all. If the cases correlate with assumptions we say 'proven' and if they don't correlate with assumptions we say 'oh people didn't lock down properly'.

I'm curious as to how you think the virus transmits.

caveat emptor · 19-09-2020 10:32PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And there’ll be no opportunity for emigration for young people like in previous times, as everywhere will be in the same boat. An unfathomable social crisis is in the making

Yeah usually we just export the problem.

growleaves · 19-09-2020 10:34PM

wadacrack wrote: »

Its been proven in a number of countries.People listening to too much Ivor Cummins. The people who argue that their was no point in doing a lockdown as cases will just trend upwards when you open up I can understand but a better scenario is lockdown's of some sort at different stages to slow down transmission and by time for a vaccine and better treatment. Its very hard economically socially and mentally for people nut the alternative of just letting the virus spread hasn't worked either and is highly likely to much worse as seen in Belarus and Sweden. Theirs a reason the UK changed their initial approach, the virus is more serious that they anticipated and nothing has changed.

No it hasn't been proven. I've no familiarity with Ivor Cummins though I've heard the name starting from about 2 weeks ago. What I see on this thread is people saying that any outcome is proof of the efficacy of lockdown. So if cases go up or cases go down. Lockdown is a metaphysical assumption.

John O.Groats · 19-09-2020 10:41PM

growleaves wrote: »

Getting the excuses in early I see.

Facts are hardly an excuse. Well maybe they are for your brigade.

Juwwi · 19-09-2020 10:51PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don’t think the government care about the economy or anything anymore. Covid is now the only issue.

At least Dublin will now prove that lockdown doesn’t work.

I disagree with all of that .

The government are clearly worried about the economy.

Its the lads who run from the pubs to bookies with no mask or hand sanitizer in sight that don't care about the economy .

The idiots who get on the bus with a mask on and then pull it down when they sit down that don't care about the economy .

The protests in Dublin against the government asking everyone to turn around and shake hands with the person beside you .

growleaves · 19-09-2020 10:53PM

John O.Groats wrote: »

Facts are hardly an excuse. Well maybe they are for your brigade.

You don't have facts, you have simple cause and effect assumptions which have become the mental furniture in the living room of your mind.

You view things through the prism of these assumptions so considering that they might not be true never even comes up.

And by the way, NPHET themselves have not made definite claims like the ones on this thread. A few weeks before masks were made mandatory an expert from NPHET said the evidence around masks was "not fantastic".

NPHET are simply going with they believe is the best theory or set of theories because they were given a remit to take action to prevent covid.

It is only Joe Public, with no understanding of the rigorous standards of scientific proof, who claims that lockdown, social distancing and masks are proven facts like gravity.

robbiezero · 19-09-2020 10:55PM

John O.Groats wrote: »

Only if too many ****ing morons ignore the restrictions and continue to hold house parties etc. and ignore mask wearing and social distancing which has largely contributed to the situation that Dublin now finds itself in.

Can you send your data on to Professor Philip Nolan of NPHET seeing as you seem to know more about where cases are coming from than he does.

normanoffside · 19-09-2020 10:58PM

AdamD wrote: »

Are we ignoring the elephant in the room that kids could be asymptomatically spreading this around the classroom, then bringing it home, causing a large increase in cases? Even without large increases in kids testing positive, they could still drive increases.

Kids have been testing positive at 0.5%. That's over 4 times less than the average positivity rate.
They are disproportionately being brought for testing because of all the usual sniffles they get from going back to school.

If schools were a huge transmitter, kids would be testing positive at much higher rates than the rest of the population.

Hego Damask · 19-09-2020 10:58PM

So regarding vaccines, let's just assume by early next year they are massively rolling them out to the most vulnerable and front line workers.

Will the restrictions continue for the rest of us ? mask wearing, kids wearing masks at school, classes sent home for 2 weeks if a case is found / pubs closed .. etc ...or will they let the virus work through the non vulnerable population as in theory with vulnerable vaccinated hospitals won't get overwhelmed ?

And what about borders ? will summer 2021 be a write off regarding travel ?

CiarraiManc · 19-09-2020 11:07PM

Hego Damask wrote: »

So regarding vaccines, let's just assume by early next year they are massively rolling them out to the most vulnerable and front line workers.

Will the restrictions continue for the rest of us ? mask wearing, kids wearing masks at school, classes sent home for 2 weeks if a case is found / pubs closed .. etc ...or will they let the virus work through the non vulnerable population as in theory with vulnerable vaccinated hospitals won't get overwhelmed ?

And what about borders ? will summer 2021 be a write off regarding travel ?

Summer 2021? Try summer 2031 if you're on about a vaccine

ACitizenErased · 19-09-2020 11:08PM

Looks like the ASTI are ready for striking.

niallo27 · 19-09-2020 11:10PM

Juwwi wrote: »

I disagree with all of that .

The government are clearly worried about the economy.

Its the lads who run from the pubs to bookies with no mask or hand sanitizer in sight that don't care about the economy .

The idiots who get on the bus with a mask on and then pull it down when they sit down that don't care about the economy .

The protests in Dublin against the government asking everyone to turn around and shake hands with the person beside you .

So the whole economy is based on a tiny minority of people who are acting like fools, we have no plan B, it doesn't matter if 99% of people comply with the restrictions.

niallo27 · 19-09-2020 11:10PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Looks like the ASTI are ready for striking.

In fairness they have done 4 weeks work the poor little sods. They need a break.

Pitch n Putt · 19-09-2020 11:15PM

niallo27 wrote: »

In fairness they have done 4 weeks work the poor little sods. They need a break.

They need a good fung up the hole.

Ridiculous carry on from them.

Let them strike till the cows come home.

Wolf359f · 19-09-2020 11:17PM

niallo27 wrote: »

In fairness they have done 4 weeks work the poor little sods. They need a break.

Probably miss all those months off with full pay.
Reading the RTE article and of course the issue of pay gets highlighted.
Somehow, I don't think they will have public support. Lets hope they social distance on the picket line at least.

Have some Indian people teach the students over zoom while they picket lol

In contrast, the conditions and risk nurses and healthcare staff faced, are facing and will face pales in comparison. I haven't heard a rumbling from their unions.

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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