Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

KrustyUCC · 17-09-2020 01:42PM

aisling86 wrote: »

I agred cork is doing well but its creeping up each day. Heard on radio this morning 4 in ICU in the mercy. People dropping their guard because it's been so stable but it's all about to change I'd imagine.

It's 4 cases in hospital

3 in the Mercy and 1 in CUH

None in ICU so far

https://www.echolive.ie/corknews/Covid-19-latest-rise-in-number-of-people-being-treated-in-Cork-hospitals-b16c972d-6941-4b98-a410-ff5a38a1ff2c-ds

s1ippy · 17-09-2020 01:45PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

Pre covid I'd agree, if schools and teachers are allowing that kind of activity, well it's just a disaster waiting to happen. I can't believe teachers would be so negligent in this climate. Any primary teachers here shed a light on the claim?

https://www.gov.ie/en/publication/your-questions-answered/

I was a primary school teacher and when I taught a class of 30 junior infants, even with the most on the ball classroom management (which often involved call and respond songs, not possible now) it would have been an impossibility to ensure that every single child was not picking their nose or interacting with a child outside of their group at every single moment. Be reasonable, the task is an impossibility.

Unless they let them use a cane or whatever the other poster suggested, but I'm pretty sure the cure is worse than the disease when you recommend physically assaulting children to get them to comply.

Hurrache · 17-09-2020 01:46PM

Spleodar wrote: »

I can see this spiralling in Cork before long too. I just saw about 25 teens all having lunch crowded around two picnic tables outside a garage/shop. There wasn’t 2cm, let alone 2m between any of them. No masks (they were eating.) Horse playing around. Shoving and pushing. No masks. No social distancing. Nothing! Sure it’s all grand obviously.

Probably time to re-do the home office and setup online shopping again.

If we could just have a bit of common sense with the sensible measures we could get on with life as close to normal as possible, but no! This isn’t Sweden that’s for sure.

If they were on lunch from school, it's doesn't really matter what they were doing at lunch as they'd be in close contact in school anyway, and during whatever sports they do after school.

podgeandrodge · 17-09-2020 01:48PM

Spleodar wrote: »

The other one that’s really shocking me is the people wandering in to shops without sanitising hands. I was in a Circle K yesterday. Lad gets out of a van. He puts on a mask. Adjusts his jeans. Hand through hair. Fiddles mask mask. Walks straight in, right past the sanitiser. Fiddles around with the coffee cups and makes a coffee. Surface contamination all over the place. I decided to skip coffee.

It’s exactly same people who’d probably go to the jacks and not wash their hands.

It’s those really basic things like using hand sanitiser that make all the difference. If we get that stuff right we don’t end up with the need for blunt measures like restrictions on entire cities, but these islands are like that.

This. Happening everywhere. Masks have stopped people using the basic precautions drummed into everyone at the outset. Remember sanitiser? You could t walk through a doorway without someone telling you to sanitise. Now nobody cars if you do or not. But you're masked up with some 3 day grimy old piece of cloth that's been compromised by God knows how many surfaces!

Not anti mask where appropriate, such as in closed confined spaces for periods of time, bit they've become an alternative to good practice. Anecdotal.

podgeandrodge · 17-09-2020 01:51PM

eagle eye wrote: »

People mentioning the economy as the reason not to shut down.
It's sad when money is more important than the health of the nation.

You can't have a health service without a functioning economy. Many more would die from all sorts of illnesses. There's more than bloody Covid affecting people. Vulnerable people aside ( and they say this could be 1 in 3 of us) , general population including many vulnerable people, will soon rebel against further restrictions as there is only so much misery people will take.
Not speaking about misery to date, which wasn't too bad, but reverting to previous restrictions will hurt people mentally!

drunkmonkey · 17-09-2020 01:53PM

Michael Mc Namara keeping it real as usual....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XfcLeiC2KKM

podgeandrodge · 17-09-2020 01:53PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Dublin should go straight to level 4 with some other counties going to level 3.

Weren't you agreeing with some of those self educated twitter epidemiologists that had a different view? Sorry if I'm confusing you with another poster. Or maybe you've changed your mind. I'm in mid mind change at moment that there's too much hysteria.

mandrake04 · 17-09-2020 01:54PM

Non solum non ambulabit wrote: »

Absolutely farcical. Have they not learned anything from the mess of putting Dublin in 2.5 just when they announced the new levels.

We may as well stick them in the bin as they will mean nothing if this is the case.

Was Ireland the only country in the world that had restriction levels that are not whole numbers? Is there Level 2.5 anywhere else?

Spleodar · 17-09-2020 01:56PM

I'm not convinced by the argument that the masks have reduced hand hygiene, rather the people who aren't doing the hand hygiene steps are exactly the same people who weren't doing it in March either.

People are absolutely unbelievable. I'll give you an example of something I encountered before the pandemic ever started. I was in a hospital and someone's kid pulled all the gloves out of a box dispenser on the wall. She picked them up off the floor, and stuffed them all back into the glove box. These were examination gloves that would have subsequently been used on patients and they'd been on the floor!!!

I said it to her and she gave me a shrug of contempt. So I removed the box from the holder and handed it to a nurse.

A percentage of the population is absolutely clueless about basic stuff like this. I know people involved in food safety and they're always giving me the horror stories about how difficult it is to train retail staff in delis. People touching their face while gloved up and making sandwiches etc etc etc.

I know someone who seems to think it's fine to wipe her face with a tissue and the the kitchen counters with the same cloth! I said it to her and she hit the roof and told me I had OCD and this was DURING the pandemic.

One of the most disgusting things I see here regularly (and still see) is people spitting on the street. It seems to be a pastime for guys in their teens in Cork. I remember coming back from living on the continent and it really struck me when I saw it - a bunch of lads in school uniforms just leaning up against a wall hurling globs of spit onto the path.

A % of the population just does not care and no amount of messaging is going to change that unfortunately.

NegativeCreep · 17-09-2020 01:59PM

podgeandrodge wrote: »

You can't have a health service without a functioning economy. Many more would die from all sorts of illnesses. There's more than bloody Covid affecting people. Vulnerable people aside ( and they say this could be 1 in 3 of us) , general population including many vulnerable people, will soon rebel against further restrictions as there is only so much misery people will take.
Not speaking about misery to date, which wasn't too bad, but reverting to previous restrictions will hurt people mentally!

I can’t believe this still has to be said.

Arghus · 17-09-2020 02:00PM

It also has to be said, as much as I stick up for NPHET and try to understand - with great difficulty at times - the government's approach and I think to an extent anybody in government now would be having a tough time of it - I think there was a collective dropping of the ball as regards to the situation in Dublin. It's been posting pretty strong numbers going back weeks now, I would have thought the warning signs were there for the last 4-5 weeks, but it seemed to only come to the fore in the authorities thinking in the last fortnight. When LOKdown occurred I thought surely it's only a matter of time for Dublin, but then it didn't seem to talked about until, predictably, things got way worse.

polesheep · 17-09-2020 02:00PM

Spleodar wrote: »

I'm not convinced by the argument that the masks have reduced hand hygiene, rather the people who aren't doing the hand hygiene steps are exactly the same people who weren't doing it in March either.

People are absolutely unbelievable. I'll give you an example of something I encountered before the pandemic ever started. I was in a hospital and someone's kid pulled all the gloves out of a box dispenser on the wall. She picked them up off the floor, and stuffed them all back into the glove box. These were examination gloves that would have subsequently been used on patients and they'd been on the floor!!!

I said it to her and she gave me a shrug of contempt. So I removed the box from the holder and handed it to a nurse.

A percentage of the population is absolutely clueless about basic stuff like this. I know people involved in food safety and they're always giving me the horror stories about how difficult it is to train retail staff in delis. People touching their face while gloved up and making sandwiches etc etc etc.

Those gloves aren't sterile, how could they be once the tear strip has been removed to access the first pair? A woman in a hospital who was possibly already stressed tried to make up for her child's behaviour and you challenged her. The story says more about you to be honest.

Gadgetman496 · 17-09-2020 02:03PM

Arghus wrote: »

It also has to be said, as much as I stick up for NPHET and try to understand - with great difficulty at times - the government's approach and I think to an extent anybody in government now would be having a tough time of it - I think there was a collective dropping of the ball as regards to the situation in Dublin. It's been posting pretty strong numbers going back weeks now, I would have thought the warning signs were there for the last 4-5 weeks, but it seemed to only come to the fore in the authorities thinking in the last fortnight. When LOKdown occurred I thought surely it's only a matter of time for Dublin, but then it didn't seem to talked about until,predictably, things got way worse.

I don't think NPHET dropped the ball, I think it's more a case that the Government may not have acted on their advice fast enough.

Spleodar · 17-09-2020 02:03PM

polesheep wrote: »

Those gloves aren't sterile, how could they be once the tear strip has been removed to access the first pair? A woman in a hospital who was possibly already stressed tried to make up for her child's behaviour and you challenged her. The story says more about you to be honest.

The gloves were examination gloves and they were being used as balloons, shoved under the seats, all over the floor and she just stuffed them back into the box.

You don't do that and she wasn't stressed about her child. She was on her mobile and ignoring her child, who was wandering around playing with medical equipment outside an ICU!!!

She wasn't stressed, she just didn't give a flying ****.

Would you be happy to have someone insert a cannula wearing gloves that he/she didn't know were on the floor and in some kids mouth 10 mins earlier?

There's a big difference between 'non-sterile' when tab opened and 'was dragged around the floor by a toddler'

Welcome to Ireland, defend the indefensible .. always!

People are going on about Sweden and how the numbers are lower despite no restrictions. This fully illustrates why.

MildThing84 · 17-09-2020 02:03PM

How we looking for case numbers today?

17-09-2020 02:08PM

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Weren't you agreeing with some of those self educated twitter epidemiologists that had a different view? Sorry if I'm confusing you with another poster. Or maybe you've changed your mind. I'm in mid mind change at moment that there's too much hysteria.

I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. The virus is not as dangerous to the vast majority now as once feared. As Leo pointed out recently we don't really know those reasons
better testing/it's weaker etc. I do think it is still better to be cautious as the trajectory of Dublin cases is fairly dramatic. We can't just let it rip through the population unabaitted either.

drunkmonkey · 17-09-2020 02:08PM

Spleodar wrote: »

I'm not convinced by the argument that the masks have reduced hand hygiene, rather the people who aren't doing the hand hygiene steps are exactly the same people who weren't doing it in March either.

Nonsense, if I could share my CCTV without breaking GDPR rules I'd prove how far off the mark you are.
Sit outside centra for twenty minutes and report back with your observational study data.

From the very start I've kept up the hand cleaning and distancing, it's served me well. To say the people who detest mandatory masks indoors are the same people who ignore the other measures is completely wrong. Distancing and hand hygiene are gone out the window since masks were introduced, that's a fact, it's been reported in the media nearly daily now, Pat Kenny wanted mask police the the other day to patrol people using them incorrectly, he wasn't concerned about the people not wearing them as he's hoping natural selection will sort them out.

Secondary transmission from masks is an issue, it's been reported in scientific studies, NPHET warned about it, experts warned our Government about it. It's time to stop ignoring fact based real world data and end this farce.

Sierra Oscar · 17-09-2020 02:13PM

eagle eye wrote: »

People mentioning the economy as the reason not to shut down.
It's sad when money is more important than the health of the nation.

People always throw out the 'think of the economy' line which is understandable. They fail to take into account the fact that unimaginable damage will be done to the economy if the virus spreads uncontrollable and results in the health system being overwhelmed.

Do people really think people will go out and socialise and live normal lives if we reach a situation whereby we have 100+ dying a day due to Covid-19? Because that is where we were heading pre-lockdown.

Le Bruise · 17-09-2020 02:14PM

Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what level Dublin goes to for certain people.

There are still folk in my office who think the whole thing is a scam...even after one of our colleague's friend died from it. They don't understand the simple idea of asymptomatic spread, so think that unless you're coughing and spluttering you can't have it. They laugh any time a mask is worn and almost get annoyed by my suggestions that it's important. They don't believe the 'made up' daily numbers and suggest it's all for 'control' (of what I don't know).

I'm normally very optimistic about things, but it is a worry that there is just no getting through to a particular cohort....and there are thousands like them.

Spleodar · 17-09-2020 02:14PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Nonsense, if I could share my CCTV without breaking GDPR rules I'd prove how far off the mark you are.
Sit outside centra for twenty minutes and report back with your observational study data.
.

What I'm saying is it's not either/or. There were plenty of people sailing on past the sanitisers in supermarkets here before the masks were mandatory. I saw it plenty of times and that hasn't changed.

I know several people who think it's all nonsense and just won't do it regardless of what messaging is out there or what logic there is behind it.

There's no particular reason why one cancels out the other. I'd agree though a significant % of people haven't a clue how to use masks and a lot of the masks aren't fitted properly and aren't being handled properly. I don't think you can police that to be quite honest unless everyone started wearing surgical masks and disposing of them constantly, which would be an environmental mess, although less than say coffee cups.

There's also an issue with valved masks. I don't really see what the point of wearing one is if it's not filtering your out breaths and there are loads of them around. They're basically anti-pollution masks for use by pedestrians / cyclists in China.

However, there does appear to be fairly strong evidence that the masks have had significant impacts on reduction of transmission. It's far from perfect, but I would definitely air on the side of them being potentially useful and there seems to be broad public health consensus on that in most countries, with a few outliers that frankly are outliers for other reasons too.

There's also just a human element of people become complacent about stuff like this after a while anyway. If you look at something like building site safety, it took years and years to get to the stage where were are at now where people take site safety seriously and the only way it happened was the HSA will shut down sites if they're not complaint and things started to get taken extremely seriously.

The same applied to seatbelts for decades. There was no particular difficulty in wearing them but there were umpteen b/s reasons people had for not doing so. It took a cultural shift.

17-09-2020 02:17PM

Personally I don't think this second wave is going to be as bad as first. Covid 19 did hit harder in March due to mild 2019 flu. Government do need to act now though and effectively lock down Dublin and then other regions as things progress. In time Dublin can be unlocked if numbers stabilise and then fall.

ACitizenErased · 17-09-2020 02:22PM

New green list:
Cyprus
Finland
Germany
Iceland
Latvia
Lithuania
Poland

Spleodar · 17-09-2020 02:23PM

If you want to compare culture about compliance with rules and regulations between this group of countries:

a) Ireland, UK, France, Spain and b) Sweden and the Netherlands.

Try crossing a at a red pedestrian crossing on an empty road in the Netherlands.

I remember being in Eindhoven and there was a red man up, no traffic whatsoever in either direction. 50km/h zone zero risk whatsoever.

I crossed and this old lady immediately started pointing at the red man showing "HALLO!!!!"

Culturally speaking, group a) will read the road and ignore the light if it's convenient b) will tend not to.

caveat emptor · 17-09-2020 02:24PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

People always throw out the 'think of the economy' line which is understandable. They fail to take into account the fact that unimaginable damage will be done to the economy if the virus spreads uncontrollable and results in the health system being overwhelmed.

Do people really think people will go out and socialise and live normal lives if we reach a situation whereby we have 100+ dying a day due to Covid-19? Because that is where we were heading pre-lockdown.

Yes and yes.

Saying economy repeatedly while economy goes down the ****ter despite easing of restrictions is a moot point at this stage.

https://twitter.com/OurWorldInData/status/1300787649603608577?s=20

drunkmonkey · 17-09-2020 02:24PM

Spleodar wrote: »

What I'm saying is it's not either/or. There were plenty of people sailing on past the sanitisers in supermarkets here before the masks were mandatory. I saw it plenty of times and that hasn't changed.

That's what's happened people have disregarded one for the other. The original two asks are the most important and easy to do correctly, keep your distance, clean your hands. It's a simple message that worked from my observations.
Managing a mask isn't easy it take a lot of discipline to use a mask correctly, it's just not happening, using one any way incorrect is worse than none. That's not my opinion that's a fact.

17-09-2020 02:25PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

You are the one harping on saying kids can’t spread it. You are mad if you believe that. Must be the only virus in history that isn’t spread by kids. Highly unlikely. I’m saying going to level 4 is pointless. We won’t be able to visit anyone but we’ll all put our kids, 30 to a room everyday and expect the numbers to be under control.

I agree we need schools open but we need to do it safely. 4 schools with subsequent cases after 2 weeks doesn’t sound safe to me.

Point of order - 4 instances of 2 cases within the one classroom is not proof of spread within the classroom. The odds of 2 random cases occurring in the same class in the same week is actually very high - assuming only 200 cases in school children in a given week, it comes out at 99.9%. The odds of 3 random cases in the one class is about 39%, and 4 cases about 2.5%

Not that I don't believe at least some of these are linked

caveat emptor · 17-09-2020 02:25PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

New green list:
Cyprus
Finland
Germany
Iceland
Latvia
Lithuania
Poland

Cool, Germany and the lebensraum. :eek:

Longing · 17-09-2020 02:25PM

Sorry wrong thread

SPDUB · 17-09-2020 02:26PM

mandrake04 wrote: »

Was Ireland the only country in the world that had restriction levels that are not whole numbers? Is there Level 2.5 anywhere else?

I saw someone mentioning there is but can't remember where it is but those levels were apparently set out in official documents

Ficheall · 17-09-2020 02:27PM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

using one any way incorrect is worse than none. That's not my opinion that's a fact.

Link?

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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