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Covid-19 likely to be man made

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    #212
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Hmm_Messiah wrote: »
    There is also the fact that Xi is determined to retain power for the longest possible time, and this outbreak initially threatened that plan for the first time since his ascension - makes no sense for him to want to unlease a virus, and (just for you conspiracy guys) if it were some one doing same to try remove him, there would have been a massive purge within the ranks which did not occur

    What if they released something they knew they could control?

    They have eradicated the virus in China, destroyed it, kicked it's ass and kept the economy going, almost like they knew what to do.

    Destroying the economy of it's rival's the EU, US, Russia, India, Australia etc

    They also blocked all domestic flight out of Wuhan, but not international flights out of Wuhan.

    They let the whole world get the virus, but not China

    Why did they not protect the other countries and stop all flights?


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    #213
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Melanchthon wrote: »
    Any proof of that?
    I'm not giving them the traffic or the SEO.

    Just look up the name of the institute - you'll find it at the top of the paper - and it's all there, including a big picture of Steve Bannon on the homepage. Not to mention all the far-right media articles about them which mention "China virus" or "CCP Virus".


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    #214
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    That’s a 14 day report covering the first 2 weeks of September, it is vastly different now than back in March/April.

    Are you being deliberately disingenuous?

    Disingenuous?

    Sure what's different?

    Is it a different virus?

    Has it mutated? Become less resilent? Have we become more resilent?

    No it's the same virus

    It was 0.24% CFR virus in March as it is in September

    Nothing has changed, use the head.

    We missed thousands upon thousands of cases in March/April, thats why we had the death and hospitalisations, that's what was different.

    It's the same 0.24% CFR virus, always has been

    What are you thinking, it was a killer Ebola virus in March and now it's good ol Influenza in September?


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    #215
    Hmm_Messiah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭Hmm_Messiah


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    What if they released something they knew they could control?

    They have eradicated the virus in China, destroyed it, kicked it's ass and kept the economy going, almost like they knew what to do.

    Destroying the economy of it's rival's the EU, US, Russia, India, Australia etc

    They also blocked all domestic flight out of Wuhan, but not international flights out of Wuhan.

    They let the whole world get the virus, but not China

    Why did they not protect the other countries and stop all flights?

    I won't engage in this much further as it hurts my brain to consider what are the very weakest of theories but in reply

    "kept the economy going" - they did not keep the economy going , much was shut down for months.. and small & large commercial enterprises were hit as badly as here … I've seen scenes replicating Ireland with closed stores, or long queues causing reduced turnover. I also know of elderly people confined in their apartments for months ; and if you are aware of the respect Chinese culture gives to the elderly it would seem less likely they would inflict so much hardship on that tranche of people

    "Destroying the economy of it's rival's the EU, US, Russia, India, Australia"

    These economies are not destroyed, and while recession elsewhere would of course benefit a thriving China … China is not thriving, its growth has been restricted for some hears. Also it sees India and Russia as ideal commercial partners, it serves no purpose to destroy their economies

    "They also blocked all domestic flight out of Wuhan, but not international flights out of Wuhan." from what I have read almost every country has made delayed or poor decisions about flights and freedom of movement" There is a whole complicated hierarchy of how governance works in China

    And as I noted in my first post - there are multiple respected scientific authorities who have refuted the virus being man-made

    And oh yea the great misdirection of realising a virus in the immediate locality of a lab working on viruses ??? jesus wept


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    #216
    r439z5ifwt8soq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭r439z5ifwt8soq


    The organisation who backed that paper appear to be politically motivated. People taking this paper as proof might be a bit naive.


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    #217
    Smee_Again
    Registered Users Posts: 2,018 ✭✭✭Smee_Again


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    Disingenuous?

    Sure what's different?

    Is it a different virus?

    Has it mutated? Become less resilent? Have we become more resilent?

    No it's the same virus

    It was 0.24% CFR virus in March as it is in September

    Nothing has changed, use the head.

    We missed thousands upon thousands of cases in March/April, thats why we had the death and hospitalisations, that's what was different.

    It's the same 0.24% CFR virus, always has been

    What are you thinking, it was a killer Ebola virus in March and now it's good ol Influenza in September?

    You are being disingenuous, grand so. Carry on.

    No point engaging when someone is will fully ignorant.


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    #218
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Hmm_Messiah wrote: »
    To be fair , I have read a fair few Chinese academic publications , and the language is often a little -... clunky... and more colloquial than technical (not excessively so but more than would be accepted in a publication here

    But I cannot understand how this is Current Affairs (unless that category is very poorly named) - this article is just nonsense, no other word for it , makes Trump seem like an Einstein in comparison.

    And the first post links to Loose Women and the Sun ?

    I might be missing out on the fun bit (from social & Fun) so if its all satire, fair enough, otherwise it is just ridiculous stupidity that verges on being dangerous


    And those suspicious about how the virus is practically gone in China - (a) China is run by CCP and so the government was able to make decisions and restrictions that a western democracy could never do (b) it was already a 24/7 monitored state - your every movement is recorded and traceable so when there are outbreaks its an immediate trace on contacts (c) to enter any building you need to present your app confirming you are Covid free

    and a whole bunch of other measures. Universities re-opened this week … on campus... without masks ( for a country which already had a tendency to wear masks ) this is done because they locked down and crushed the virus.....

    I read of the situation in parts of Ireland … and I truly wonder about how serious people take this pandemic . I am sure people who are affected by the pandemic and have seen its impact on their family etc are much less concerned with conspiracy theories, that are in any case pathetic nonsense on any critical review, and more with wishing to see the end of the nightmare it is for many

    There are numerous prestigious scientific sources to debunk the Lab made nonsense.. There is also the fact that Xi is determined to retain power for the longest possible time, and this outbreak initially threatened that plan for the first time since his ascension - makes no sense for him to want to unlease a virus, and (just for you conspiracy guys) if it were some one doing same to try remove him, there would have been a massive purge within the ranks which did not occur
    The problem I have is more to do with the accidental lab leak hypothesis, which really will only be discredited when there's a clear ancestry and zoonotic source(s) conclusively identified for the virus. I'd honestly like to see that happen but there is currently poor-quality evidence to explain much of anything. And the circling of wagons that's happened in that research field hasn't helped in the interests of transparency.

    It's also not true to suggest this is incapable of western democracies, as New Zealand clearly demonstrates.


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    #219
    SEPT 23 1989
    Registered Users Posts: 43,024 ✭✭✭✭SEPT 23 1989


    What happened to China just before this thing arrived into Europe and America?


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    #220
    Hmm_Messiah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭Hmm_Messiah


    lucernarian wrote: »
    The problem I have is more to do with the accidental lab leak hypothesis,

    It's also not true to suggest this is incapable of western democracies, as New Zealand clearly demonstrates.

    I didn't say western democracy could not crush the virus... I said that CCP were able to take other actions no western country would do.... If a police man or " community body" prevents you entering or leaving a building in China ..you do not argue etc

    New Zealand is indeed though a great demonstration of how to respond to the pandemic

    I also agree certainty re source etc will not occur for some time....but I was responding to the blatant nonsense in this thread

    I have russian and Chinese friends who simply do not believe Chernobyl happened as it did... Or that Tiannenmen Square occurred...some acknowledge there was an event..but with a handful of deaths....so I am open to the possibility that there could be a cover up


    Personally what I see here...I think it's as believable it was a fine gael plot...begun decades ago including recruiting Leo as a doctor...so when the pandemic occurred they could show how well they could govern ( compared to the calamity since)


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    #221
    ShineOn7
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,550 ✭✭✭ShineOn7


    Smee_Again wrote: »
    Thread title is misleading, the report doesn't show how the virus was man made.

    It postulates how the virus could be made in a lab and details the steps that would be taken to do so.

    It's interesting, but not a smoking gun.


    Thanks for saving me a click


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    #222
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Hmm_Messiah wrote: »
    I didn't say western democracy could not crush the virus... I said that CCP were able to take other actions no western country would do.... If a police man or " community body" prevents you entering or leaving a building in China ..you do not argue etc

    New Zealand is indeed though a great demonstration of how to respond to the pandemic

    I also agree certainty re source etc will not occur for some time....but I was responding to the blatant nonsense in this thread

    I have russian and Chinese friends who simply do not believe Chernobyl happened as it did... Or that Tiannenmen Square occurred...some acknowledge there was an event..but with a handful of deaths....so I am open to the possibility that there could be a cover up


    Personally what I see here...I think it's as believable it was a fine gael plot...begun decades ago including recruiting Leo as a doctor...so when the pandemic occurred they could show how well they could govern ( compared to the calamity since)
    I stand by what I said, the implication in comparing with western democracies in "stamping out" the virus was clear.

    And more attention should be paid to some of the biology experts out there, like Yuri Deigin who doesn't have a stake in this either political or research-funding based.

    The hubris about FG plots doesn't really add to the discussion any more than the other crazy opinions shared here, even if you're only trying to highlight that some conspiracies are mad.

    It needs to be said, again and again, that transparency is deeply lacking regarding the origin of this and we shouldn't lose sight of that.


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    #223
    Richard Hillman
    Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Richard Hillman


    I met up with a Chinese friend recently who went home for a few weeks in June. She says that the theory in China is that it was a mess up at the lab and that the government paid the WHO a bomb to cover it up. And that there have been a lot of "Car Crashes" and other untimely deaths of people from the lab.


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    #224
    Beasty
    Administrators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 75,381 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭Beasty


    Misleading thread title amended to reflect the fact there is no definitive position being taken by the "whistle blower". It may be man made


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    #225
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,462 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    I met up with a Chinese friend recently who went home for a few weeks in June. She says that the theory in China is that it was a mess up at the lab and that the government paid the WHO a bomb to cover it up. And that there have been a lot of "Car Crashes" and other untimely deaths of people from the lab.

    The theory that it was a mess up in the lab is the most likely. As for paying off WHO, we know every single other international organisation is massively corrupt with bribes being taken all over the place. Look at the soccer organisations. It would take a staggering leap of faith to suggest WHO are not corrupt.


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    #226
    DangerScouse
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 466 ✭✭DangerScouse


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    What if they released something they knew they could control?

    They have eradicated the virus in China, destroyed it, kicked it's ass and kept the economy going, almost like they knew what to do.

    Destroying the economy of it's rival's the EU, US, Russia, India, Australia etc

    They also blocked all domestic flight out of Wuhan, but not international flights out of Wuhan.

    They let the whole world get the virus, but not China

    Why did they not protect the other countries and stop all flights?

    Bio weapons is a real thing. Some people want to believe it's not.

    There is of course no concrete proof this is a bio weapon but nothing would surprise me with the CCP.


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    #227
    thebaz
    Registered Users Posts: 13,582 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    jackboy wrote: »
    The theory that it was a mess up in the lab is the most likely. As for paying off WHO, we know every single other international organisation is massively corrupt with bribes being taken all over the place. Look at the soccer organisations. It would take a staggering leap of faith to suggest WHO are not corrupt.

    and yet the same WHO are dictating to the whole world how to act at a staggering cost to the majority of ordinary folk , bar Sweden , we are all doing and acting as to whatever WHO say, even though they said ther was nothing to worry about earlier in the year , no need to wear masks and yet to question ther dictate you are labelled a right wing conspirasist nutter , ther will be a massive independent inquiry in a years time to see who actually was telling the truth , that hopefully will be independent and not dirtied with corruption - hopefully by then, the cost on the majority of peoples health , physical and mental will not be too severe.


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    #228
    Thierry12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 979 ✭✭✭Thierry12


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    I met up with a Chinese friend recently who went home for a few weeks in June. She says that the theory in China is that it was a mess up at the lab and that the government paid the WHO a bomb to cover it up. And that there have been a lot of "Car Crashes" and other untimely deaths of people from the lab.

    Think most people believe that to be the case

    An accident or not is the question

    Id be amazed if some people think it came from a man eating a bat


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    #229
    r439z5ifwt8soq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭r439z5ifwt8soq


    jackboy wrote: »
    As for paying off WHO, we know every single other international organisation is massively corrupt

    That's a funny aul statement there


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    #230
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,462 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Frances Green Antenna wrote: »
    That's a funny aul statement there

    It’s not. It would be staggering to claim otherwise.


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    #231
    r439z5ifwt8soq
    Closed Accounts Posts: 76 ✭✭r439z5ifwt8soq


    jackboy wrote: »
    It’s not. It would be staggering to claim otherwise.

    right so, no point in engaging with the likes of you


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    #232
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,462 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Frances Green Antenna wrote: »
    right so, no point in engaging with the likes of you

    😂


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    #233
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Thierry12 wrote: »

    Destroying the economy of it's rival's the EU, US, Russia, India, Australia etc

    So their plan for global domination is to destroy the economies of all the places they sell their stuff to? Sounds fool proof.......


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    #234
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    thebaz wrote: »
    we are all doing and acting as to whatever WHO say, .

    This is a favourite of the anti everything crowd. "theyre obviously up to no good, sure they changed their advice"

    Do people really think that when situations evolve, authorities should just bull headedly stick to their first thoughts on the matter and refuse to budge, even if the know its wrong? Its the most idiotic take imaginable.

    Things get dropped in their lap and they react as best they can to the knowledge they have at the time. If millions died while they did nothing and just said "eh, we're waiting to see how this pans out, come back to us next year" , that would be something to attack them over


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    #235
    Darc19
    Registered Users Posts: 3,817 ✭✭✭Darc19


    StackSteevens wrote: »
    Even the Sun report linked in the OP included the following disclaimer:-
    Only those with a basic intellectual level would have read as far as that.

    Do any regular readers of "The Scum" ever read past paragraph 1?

    In the infamous "Freddie Starr ate my hamster" story, the second last paragraph stated Freddie denied the story and had been a vegetarian for 20 years.

    But none of the sun readers had the reading ability to read that far. :D


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    #236
    thebaz
    Registered Users Posts: 13,582 ✭✭✭✭thebaz


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    This is a favourite of the anti everything crowd. "theyre obviously up to no good, sure they changed their advice"

    Do people really think that when situations evolve, authorities should just bull headedly stick to their first thoughts on the matter and refuse to budge, even if the know its wrong? Its the most idiotic take imaginable.

    Things get dropped in their lap and they react as best they can to the knowledge they have at the time. If millions died while they did nothing and just said "eh, we're waiting to see how this pans out, come back to us next year" , that would be something to attack them over

    You seam happy with how WHO have handled the pandemic / situation - I'm not - A few months ago they (Dr Ryan) were saying we should go down the Sweden road , the one country that did not adhere to ther advice - For such a large professional organisation I think ther leadership has been far from good , why for instance have they said nothing about the use of Vitamin D - just rigid rigid lockdown , and bad news - at the start of the pandemic we were led believe the death rate was probably over 1% , thankfully this hasn't happened , and we are still being told every day , more and more bad news , today WHO were saying we are only at the begining , never ever any good news or alternative from ther lockdown strategy, without ever highlighting the other mental and physical timebombs going on, that I believe will be far worse than Covid, where the death rate is not as bad (thankfully) as predicted last March/April.


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    #237
    Hmm_Messiah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭Hmm_Messiah


    lucernarian wrote: »
    I stand by what I said, the implication in comparing with western democracies in "stamping out" the virus was clear.


    The hubris about FG plots doesn't really add to the discussion any more than the other crazy opinions shared here, even if you're only trying to highlight that some conspiracies are mad.

    It needs to be said, again and again, that transparency is deeply lacking regarding the origin of this and we shouldn't lose sight of that.

    You can stand by what you want...what you can't do is determine what someone else was implying....not least when that person explicitly explained his point

    So there is zero implication any way close to what you are inferring
    .

    And do you even know what "hubris" means

    The source of the virus is unknown, will remain unknown, and will not be discovered or revealed in a boards.ie forum

    Your initial post made sense, this follow up makes non..particularly in telling ME what I was implying AFTER I clarified my intent

    I wonder if there was a world war how much time people here would dedicate to how it started rather than to how to end it.


    Enjoy yourselves taking an acceptable premise " no one currently knows the origin of this virus" and turning it into a conspiracy if zero benefit in real terms


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    #238
    Hmm_Messiah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭Hmm_Messiah


    Richard Hillman wrote: »
    I met up with a Chinese friend recently who went home for a few weeks in June. She says that the theory in China is that it was a mess up at the lab and that the government paid the WHO a bomb to cover it up. And that there have been a lot of "Car Crashes" and other untimely deaths of people from the lab.

    I know maybe a couple of hundred people living in different Chinese provinces. I know no one who has ever expressed this belief, even in communications not susceptible to government monitoring.

    There are a number of NGO and rights watch organisations reporting from China and I've seen nothing about mysterious car crashes

    Maybe you are unaware but the most usual methods to silence dissent is to incarcerate or take to distant rural areas... They tend to have discarded methodologies found in old spy and thriller movies


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    #239
    Hmm_Messiah
    Registered Users Posts: 1,964 ✭✭✭Hmm_Messiah


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    Think most people believe that to be the case

    An accident or not is the question

    Id be amazed if some people think it came from a man eating a bat

    Most people? As in the majority of people? Are you for real??

    Btw bat cross species transfer was just one of many speculations in the first weeks.. it is as likely to be from pangolins.... But may never be known.

    But just as a matter of fact (general , not SARS specific) cross species infections do occur from ingestion...and people in certain areas in China do ingest bats

    If you only saw the variety of animals available to buy/eat in some so called wet markets


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    #240
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Thierry12 wrote: »
    Also interesing that China blocked domestic but not international flights out of Wuhan.

    That decision was intentional.

    Fox News “China holds US citizens hostage in virus death trap city”


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    #241
    lucernarian
    Registered Users Posts: 9,235 ✭✭✭lucernarian


    Hmm_Messiah wrote: »
    You can stand by what you want...what you can't do is determine what someone else was implying....not least when that person explicitly explained his point

    So there is zero implication any way close to what you are inferring
    .

    And do you even know what "hubris" means

    The source of the virus is unknown, will remain unknown, and will not be discovered or revealed in a boards.ie forum

    Your initial post made sense, this follow up makes non..particularly in telling ME what I was implying AFTER I clarified my intent

    I wonder if there was a world war how much time people here would dedicate to how it started rather than to how to end it.


    Enjoy yourselves taking an acceptable premise " no one currently knows the origin of this virus" and turning it into a conspiracy if zero benefit in real terms
    I know what hubris means :) that closing paragraph came across as cocky dismissiveness more than something to add to a discussion.

    As for "And those suspicious about how the virus is practically gone in China - (a) China is run by CCP and so the government was able to make decisions and restrictions that a western democracy could never do"...... You explained there that the virus is "practically gone" in China because of restrictions that a western democracy could never do. On the face of it, including the comparison with western countries is confusing to me if it's not done to contrast the response and outcome. And if that's not the point (i.e. strong measures work irrespective of govt, like in NZ), then why mention that in your point at all? If anything, isolated states are inherently better able to eliminate a contagious disease and THAT I could agree with.

    The clarification didn't clear much of anything up for me, perhaps it's late and I'm tired for all I know. I'd add that in China, there's no way to easily establish or trust that community spread has nearly vanished.

    As for the origin... It's arguably one of the more pressing questions of our times, especially because we had existing responses and surveillance that should have worked better specifically in China with an already-proven track record. Talking about "enjoying ourselves" doesn't add anything at all either, you're not obligated to reply to something if you feel the discussion is pointless.


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