Covid-19 likely to be man made

Deleted User wrote: »

Not being a molecular biologist, I cant comment on the science in the paper, however the associated language in the paper, and the commentary elsewhere is a bit like - "technically it is possible this happened, therefore it did"

I'll wait until actual scientists and people in the know make their opinions public.

There's already a huge cohort of people who know little enough to be dangerous who are spouting all sorts of nonsense on social media.

I'm not going to add myself to their ranks.

banie01 wrote: »

Agreed, but Dr Yan's own claims in the media are far more strident and definite than the actual substance of her paper.

Reading the paper, its a theoretical possibility.
Watching her media spin, its a definitive certainty.

Its poor reporting, compounded by a poor paper with no actual conclusions or evidence.

If Brexit has shown us anything, it's that anyone can say anything at any time and the media (social and MS) will lose their sh*t over it, until the next person comes along shouting nonsense. Too much overreporting, not enough analysis, and complex topics and science are being presented to the public by people who have, at most, a superficial understanding of what's going on.

StackSteevens wrote: »

Even the Sun report linked in the OP included the following disclaimer:-

Not often I'd give the Scum credit never in fact, and terrible as it sounds I'd never and will never knowingly click a link to their particular brand of reporting.

However I will say at least, well done to them for providing at least a counterpoint if not an outright refutation.

StackSteevens wrote: »

Even the Sun report linked in the OP included the following disclaimer:-

That Anderson researcher cannot be considered an honest actor when they are already funded by the same EcoHealth Alliance that (instead of monitoring for emerging diseases) are active in gain-of-function research on betacoroniviruses for several years now, and released such a feeble paper to explore its origins. 96% sequence similarity do not a predecessor make (in RaTG13). In 2003 we quickly found strains almost identical (well over 99%) to SARS-CoV. There was no dispute as to its ancestry.

On the other hand, I think the preprint by the Chinese scientist makes a lot of leaps of logic and is not put together very well. How many times the word "suspiciously" is used, for one... I don't think this acts as a smoking gun of any kind, tbh what's more concerning for me is the nature, excuse the pun, in which a limited and flawed paper in Nature was allowed to be accepted as fact without scrutiny or follow-up research.

My doubts about that paper led me to an article by a geneticist in Medium who went a lot further (https://medium.com/@yurideigin/lab-made-cov2-genealogy-through-the-lens-of-gain-of-function-research-f96dd7413748. I think it might need minor revision now to take account of the diminishing evidence for pangolins as a zoonotic ancestral reservoir, but it raises enough points for me to argue that the origin simply hasn't been established yet.

Edit: terminology correction.

This is propaganda guys - not even peer reviewed.

Ah I see "US propaganda good, Chinese propaganda bad..." - as if the same posters who routinely deep-throat whatever propaganda the US spurts out, would uncritically gorge upon a non-peer-reviewed Chinese study accusing e.g. the US of developing and releasing the coronavirus in China. As if the US has a good track record with whistleblowers...

This is nothing but uncritically shilling US propaganda. The same types of people who'd have insisted the Iraq War dossier was authentic.

Yea Loose Women - our last bastion of journalistic integrity...

There isn't even a defence of gullibility for this - how the fuck are posters pushing this with a straight face, when everyone reading knows they don't believe a word of the report - when everyone knows these posters are fully aware that the report is bullshit, that the posters want to promote just for propaganda purposes?

It's a load of bollocks which belongs on facebook conspiracy theory pages.

Everyone goes on about China/Russia being a danger to us all in terms of disinformation/propaganda - there's a "reds under the bed" propaganda scare about disinformation posted on our social media from these states - and right here, in our face, is US propaganda and people shilling it when knowing it is false...

This thread, and the posters promoting this - are some of the best examples, that it is the US that spreads enormous amounts of disinformation on our social media and in our societies - making the US a far greater threat to the integrity of our politics and public discussion.

You won't find a single poster pushing the propaganda in this thread today, owning up to the fact that it is wrong to spread unverified disinformation, later on when it fades into obscurity (with the damage already done, of the disinformation having been spread, without needing to be verified). Yet you will find loads of posters here, who do it.

It's pretty obvious that US propaganda, and ample posters willing to amplify/back it uncritically, knowing it is false - is the done thing here.

"But it says something bad about China, therefore it must be true!"

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tunguska wrote: »

This is eerily similar to Stephen King's The Stand.

seamus wrote: »

The institute which claims to be backing this paper is a Steve Bannon vehicle. Another fake charity for him to take loads of money from wealthy people while pretending to actually do something and paying no tax.

This specific institute's stated goal is to attack the political structures of China and spread anti-China propaganda in the US.

It has no history of ever getting involved in science, in publishing scientific papers or peer reviewing any others.

Any proof of that? After saying the Netflix Cuties promotional stuff being all faked by the alt-right until Netflix came out and apologised themselves for it. It would good to have back up that this is actually the case rather than just automatically blaming the current boogyman.

Anyway haven't read the paper yet but if it's anything like what's been released before under various blogs it won't prove anything but will highlight that articles like the Nature one which says it has not been subject to human alteration are weaker than they should be.

Edit: this article is probably relevant, as I said in the main body of article the idea that the virus is man-made is most definitely not proven.
Saying that it COULDN'T have been subject to human alteration however involves a selective viewing (ignoring either willfully or not) of previous research.
https://medium.com/@yurideigin/lab-made-cov2-genealogy-through-the-lens-of-gain-of-function-research-f96dd7413748

froog wrote: »

i've just read the first 2 pages and there's an awful lot of talk about censorship, vested interests, "widely challenged" etc not befitting a scientific paper. also daft sentences like "the natural origin theory, although widely accepted, lacks substantial support."

having said that, it is quite plausible this thing was created in a lab and let out via accident. specifically the Institute of Virology in.... Wuhan. where they were working on.... bat coronaviruses (as per diplomatic cables from the US 2018). and several "incidents" over the years in relation to SARS.

To be fair , I have read a fair few Chinese academic publications , and the language is often a little -... clunky... and more colloquial than technical (not excessively so but more than would be accepted in a publication here

But I cannot understand how this is Current Affairs (unless that category is very poorly named) - this article is just nonsense, no other word for it , makes Trump seem like an Einstein in comparison.

And the first post links to Loose Women and the Sun ?

I might be missing out on the fun bit (from social & Fun) so if its all satire, fair enough, otherwise it is just ridiculous stupidity that verges on being dangerous


And those suspicious about how the virus is practically gone in China - (a) China is run by CCP and so the government was able to make decisions and restrictions that a western democracy could never do (b) it was already a 24/7 monitored state - your every movement is recorded and traceable so when there are outbreaks its an immediate trace on contacts (c) to enter any building you need to present your app confirming you are Covid free

and a whole bunch of other measures. Universities re-opened this week … on campus... without masks ( for a country which already had a tendency to wear masks ) this is done because they locked down and crushed the virus.....

I read of the situation in parts of Ireland … and I truly wonder about how serious people take this pandemic . I am sure people who are affected by the pandemic and have seen its impact on their family etc are much less concerned with conspiracy theories, that are in any case pathetic nonsense on any critical review, and more with wishing to see the end of the nightmare it is for many

There are numerous prestigious scientific sources to debunk the Lab made nonsense.. There is also the fact that Xi is determined to retain power for the longest possible time, and this outbreak initially threatened that plan for the first time since his ascension - makes no sense for him to want to unlease a virus, and (just for you conspiracy guys) if it were some one doing same to try remove him, there would have been a massive purge within the ranks which did not occur

paw patrol wrote: »

i#ve been saying this since march. the idea it came from a middle ages style animal/food market was beyond fanciful.


the magic market that was just down the road from the level 4 lab that holds all this type of stuff . If you believe the wet-market story you'd believe anything

Maybe a certain low paid lab worker in charge of throwing sample animals in the furnace thought....could make a bit of cash selling these to my cousin who works in the market