Covid-19 likely to be man made

splashuum

Donald Trump recently stated he has seen evidence that the virus was manufactured in a lab. Its likely classified information for now so he obviously cannot expose such information at this time.
Mike Pompeo current United States secretary of state
and former director of the CIA also stated he has seen 'enormous evidence' Covid-19 came from a Chinese lab. Further commenting "I can tell you that there is a significant amount of evidence that this came from that laboratory in Wuhan.”

Very interesting from 2 of the most informed people on the planet.
When this all get's declassified sh%t will really hit the fan.:o


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/mike-pompeo-donald-trump-coronavirus-chinese-laboratory

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52496098

riffmongous

Trump one of the most informed men on the planet.. disinfectant injections Trump?

I'm embarrassed for you OP

banie01

Pompeo had already backtracked on his comments and let's be honest, if there is enough certainty on the part of Trump to declare it manmade and blame China on the record.

It follows that there is enough evidence to present publically.
There needs to be transparent and actual evidence presented.
Trump is a pathological liar, no evidence and these are just the ramblings of a buffoon and his cronies.

Every single other member of the 5 eyes group have said this theory is wrong.
Yes the Chinese delayed notification and attempted a cover up, but no evidence of made origin whatsoever has been presented.

Tenger

I expect we will see Splashuum outside the Four Courts tomorrow morning support Gemma and John,

Keano

banie01 wrote: »

Pompeo had already backtracked on his comments and let's be honest, if there is enough certainty on the part of Trump to declare it manmade and blame China on the record.

It follows that there is enough evidence to present publically.
There needs to be transparent and actual evidence presented.
Trump is a pathological liar, no evidence and these are just the ramblings of a buffoon and his cronies.

Every single other member of the 5 eyes group have said this theory is wrong.
Yes the Chinese delayed notification and attempted a cover up, but no evidence of made origin whatsoever has been presented.

And if a reporter asked when he would publish said evidence, they would a)be told I'm not talking to your fake news org or b)have their press credentials removed from WH as a warning to other's not to question the commander in chief

splashuum

riffmongous wrote: »

Trump one of the most informed men on the planet.. disinfectant injections Trump?

I'm embarrassed for you OP

I'm embarrassed that you believe POTUS would not be given such intel. :rolleyes:

Penn

splashuum wrote: »

Donald Trump recently stated he has seen evidence that the virus was manufactured in a lab. Its likely classified information for now so he obviously cannot expose such information at this time.
Mike Pompeo current United States secretary of state
and former director of the CIA also stated he has seen 'enormous evidence' Covid-19 came from a Chinese lab. Further commenting "I can tell you that there is a significant amount of evidence that this came from that laboratory in Wuhan.”

Very interesting from 2 of the most informed people on the planet.
When this all get's declassified sh%t will really hit the fan.:o


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/03/mike-pompeo-donald-trump-coronavirus-chinese-laboratory

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52496098

They didn't admit it was man-made, they implied it was man-made, and they did so with no back-up evidence of same.

They're trying to imply the virus was man-made so they have more of an excuse to blame China for the virus as a whole, and therefore the number of deaths in the US from the virus is all China's fault, rather than being exaccerbated by the poor response to the virus from the Trump administration.

Tokyo

Mod: Moved to conspiracy theories forum.

splashuum

mike_ie wrote: »

Mod: Moved to conspiracy theories forum.

Sorry, how this this thread warrant going to the conspiracy theories forum ?
This thread is about ACTUAL comments made by the POTUS.

All articles linked came from major news sites. Quotes came from CIA director.
Is it protocol that anything mods disagree with now automatically get dumped to the conspiracy theories forum

Cheerful Spring2

splashuum wrote: »

Sorry, how this this thread warrant going to the conspiracy theories forum ?
This thread is about ACTUAL comments made by the POTUS.

All articles linked came from major news sites. Quotes came from CIA director.
Is it protocol that anything mods disagree with now automatically get dumped to the conspiracy theories forum

I not sure why people think it's even a conspiracy. There a known virus lab in Wuhan and the scientists there researched Bat diseases. Some in the media have an agenda are only listening to the certain experts who claim it came from the wild.
This report from a couple of days ago is interesting.

Mobile activity shutdown inside the facility there was likely a "breach" and workers were removed and teams were send in to close it down and do a clean-up
The dates suggest China known about a virus since October.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/09/us-uk-intelligence-agencies-examining-report-mobile-phone-data/

Lurching

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I not sure why people think it's even a conspiracy. There a known virus lab in Wuhan and the scientists there researched Bat diseases. Some in the media have an agenda are only listening to the certain experts who claim it came from the wild.
This report from a couple of days ago is interesting.

Mobile activity shutdown inside the facility there was likely a "breach" and workers were removed and teams were send in to close it down and do a clean-up
The dates suggest China known about a virus since October.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/09/us-uk-intelligence-agencies-examining-report-mobile-phone-data/

If pretty much anyone other than Trump brought this up, there's a chance people may have taken it a bit more seriously, particularly if it was brought up in a factual manner and not straight to blame the way this dipsh1t does it.

Cheerful Spring2

Lurching wrote: »

If pretty much anyone other than Trump brought this up, there's a chance people may have taken it a bit more seriously, particularly if it was brought up in a factual manner and not straight to blame the way this dipsh1t does it.

That’s true. However Pompeo has suggested the same thing the virus may have come from the lab. Do you believe them?
It’s reported a team of private experts have seen mobile phone data and all the phone activity was shut down between Oct 7th and 24th of October inside the facility. The remarked it was strange since there was phone activity up to these dates.

Cheerful Spring2

splashuum wrote: »

Sorry, how this this thread warrant going to the conspiracy theories forum ?
This thread is about ACTUAL comments made by the POTUS.

All articles linked came from major news sites. Quotes came from CIA director.
Is it protocol that anything mods disagree with now automatically get dumped to the conspiracy theories forum

Must experts claim it came from the wild and talk about a lab leak is a conspiracy (Hollywood stuff to them) we now in that situation.
The ignore the Wet Market and Lab are close by to each other and there no proof bats were even sold in the market. A paper early in Jan found no bats were sold in Wuhan.
Scientists’ current theory the virus was passed from a Bat to another animal and then a human got it and spread it. They have no evidence for this either.
What we do know it’s a genetic similarity to SARs found in Bats about 80 per cent. There about 20 percent genetic difference and this a new virus.

Scientists were extracting the virus from Bats and placing the sequence in vials- the sealer could have broke by accident and leaked.
The theory people prefer some guy/woman eat the wrong animal and they got sick.
Both theories are not crazy, but the lab theory hold water till disproven,

Beasty

They can only "admit" to something they are responsible for. They can make claims, but let's face it you have to take anything Trump claims with a pinch of salt. I'm pretty confident he can convince a CIA Director to support his "claim"

Dohnjoe

splashuum wrote: »

Sorry, how this this thread warrant going to the conspiracy theories forum ?
This thread is about ACTUAL comments made by the POTUS.

It's Trump. He is attacking the Chinese in order to deflect from his bad handling of the pandemic. US intelligence contradicts his view (as usual)

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

It's Trump. He is attacking the Chinese in order to deflect from his bad handling of the pandemic. US intelligence contradicts his view (as usual)

Few things are lining up now with European sports people reporting the felt sick after returning from Wuhan in October. Way before the date we thought, the virus started in China.

If mobile phone activity ceased in the virus facility for three weeks in October, something happened. There was no workers there doing things as normal.

I do agree, Trump not a reliable source, but i think we can agree China not revealing the whole truth here.

da_miser

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

Few things are lining up now with European sports people reporting the felt sick after returning from Wuhan in October. Way before the date we thought, the virus started in China.

....but i think we can agree China not revealing the whole truth here.

World military games where in Wuhan last October, French team got very ill when they returned home. Could it be a Chinese bio weapon to infect the athletes who then return home and infect the rest of the military and cripple the countries defence?
https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/coronavirus-france-fears-virus-may-have-spread-in-october-after-military-games-in-wuhan/news-story/b55680fc3b6a11b8c258317d3454961b

splashuum

da_miser wrote: »

World military games where in Wuhan last October, French team got very ill when they returned home. Could it be a Chinese bio weapon to infect the athletes who then return home and infect the rest of the military and cripple the countries defence?
https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/coronavirus-france-fears-virus-may-have-spread-in-october-after-military-games-in-wuhan/news-story/b55680fc3b6a11b8c258317d3454961b

I think most informed people realise now that the virus has been circulating for longer than we first thought.

da_miser

If only Chy-Na had told the world sooner, it would not be near as bad as it currently is

Cheerful Spring2

da_miser wrote: »

World military games where in Wuhan last October, French team got very ill when they returned home. Could it be a Chinese bio weapon to infect the athletes who then return home and infect the rest of the military and cripple the countries defence?
https://www.news.com.au/world/coronavirus/global/coronavirus-france-fears-virus-may-have-spread-in-october-after-military-games-in-wuhan/news-story/b55680fc3b6a11b8c258317d3454961b

I not on board with the Chinese bio-weapon narrative. Need more information!
There plenty of evidence Wuhan-B4 lab researched pathogens detected in bats and other animals.
It very possible they discovered a new virus and studied it in the lab and somehow it leaked out. 
It also possible the virus originated in the Market. I have a problem when a large group of scientists totally dismiss the theory of a lab leak. 

Dohnjoe

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

I have a problem when a large group of scientists totally dismiss the theory of a lab leak. 

Of course you do. You literally believe you know as much if not more than a wide body of virologists and scientists who have found that it's highly likely the virus was not man-made.

Dohnjoe

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Of course you do. You literally believe you know as much if not more than a wide body of virologists and scientists who have found that it's highly likely the virus was not man-made.

Architecture, Physics, History and now Micro-biology.

Is there a field of study where cheerful isn't more qualified and knowledgeable than every single expert in the field?

Dohnjoe

King Mob wrote: »

Architecture, Physics, History and now Micro-biology.

Is there a field of study where cheerful isn't more qualified and knowledgeable than every single expert in the field?

But wait, through some snippets of news I've read I make up scripts for world events in my head, therefore everyone else does, including the experts. So mine is "as good as theirs".

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

Of course you do. You literally believe you know as much if not more than a wide body of virologists and scientists who have found that it's highly likely the virus was not man-made.

Did i say it was totally man made?
I said covid-19 has a genetic similarity to bats pathogens.
It likely is a bat or animal disease. I don't rule out the studied it and may have tinkered with it.

Cheerful Spring2

Dohnjoe wrote: »

But wait, through some snippets of news I've read I make up scripts for world events in my head, therefore everyone else does, including the experts. So mine is "as good as theirs".

I never said the professionals are wrong the pathogen came from a bat or another animal. Where I have a dispute is some experts claim an animal disease could not have leaked out. There is a sizeable difference.

What makes them so sure a bat disease  could not have infected people at the Wuhan lab, an incident took place, and  China covered it up?
 
This the same China and WHO who said there was no human to human transmission. What the ****? How were all these people in unique countries getting it then? The same WHO advised countries to not close their airports, the risk was low.  I posted in current affairs, at the time calling out that decision, and other people were praising it and saying WHO knows more then others. People were getting banned for going against the WHO at the time, i said **** that., i posted anyway. 

Guy:Incognito

Cheerful Spring2 wrote: »

 
This the same China and WHO who said there was no human to human transmission. What the ****? How were all these people in unique countries getting it then? The same WHO advised countries to not close their airports, the risk was low. 

Its almost like people can make wrong decisions or just make the best one with their available data.


What makes the difference though is willingness to change your decisions and go with updated data and research. But then of course, people use that to attack them too........



Though thats the difference with the conspiracy theory folks. They're always right and no amount of evidence or lack of it will change their mind.

Cheerful Spring2

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Its almost like people can make wrong decisions or just make the best one with their available data.


What makes the difference though is willingness to change your decisions and go with updated data and research. But then of course, people use that to attack them too........



Though thats the difference with the conspiracy theory folks. They're always right and no amount of evidence or lack of it will change their mind.

No it was common sense this would happen. You don’t close a province down in China with 60 million people for nothing. This was all predictable in early Jan. Some people just woke up to the fact too late and now every country in Europe got it and now making excuses we did not have enough data and so on., bull****. This is type of talk and excuses is why we end up in messes in the first place, the alarmists are ignored, and the so called rational people are listened to.
Lot of Conspiracy folks claim Covid-19 does not exist and its all hoax. I don’t believe that, but you find plenty of threads online claiming it all fake. 

NaFirinne

Various scientists have now come out and said that it's very likely that Covid 19 is a man made virus.


In April we have the French Nobel Price winning Scientist Luc Montagnier claiming that the SARS-CoV-2 virus came from a lab, and is the result of an attempt to manufacture a vaccine against the AIDS virus.


French Nobel prize winning scientist has sparked a fresh controversy by claiming that the SARS-CoV-2 virus came from a lab, and is the result of an attempt to manufacture a vaccine against the AIDS virus.


In May we have Australian Scientists at Latrobe University in Melbourne basically explaining how nearly impossible that such a virus has occurred naturally in Nature.


In Augest we have the President of the World academy of Biomedical Sciences and Technologies publishing a book called COVID 19: La Chimera che ha cambiato il Mondo (China COVID 19: The chimera that changed the world).


In the book he demonstrates how the PLA-owned coronavirus was genetically modified to become the Covid 19 virus which is now ravaging the world.



He also links the Wuhan Lab to France and the US as they both provided financial and scientific aid to the Chinese as they conducted more dangerous bio engineering experiments.



He does advise that while they might have collaborated that they are not responsible for the end result but it might be the reason why so many insist that the virus must come from nature as the last thing they would want to admit is that they had a hand in creating it.


He also advises that in vaccine development, reverse genetics is used to create viral strains that have reduced pathogenicity to which the immune system responds by creating antibodies against the virus. Reverse genetics can also be used to create viral strains that have increased pathongenicity thus becoming bio weapons. This type of research is considered too dangerous by the west which is why it was shifted to China.


China has refused to give the completed genome of the virus to Who and other countries as according to Dr. Tritto doing so would mean admitting that the virus was created in a laboratory. He concludes from this that any companies that are developing a vaccines will never be 100% effective and at most be able to cover at best 4-5 strains.



This is why you get companies saying that their vaccines is only 50% effective, as the maximum they could get to is maybe 70-75% effective.


So basically china by withholding the genetic code of the virus that it created ensures that no completely effective vaccine will ever be created in the West.


I'm interested to know what your guys views on this?


Should these scientists be ignored as crackpots just seeking media attention and what they are saying is so completely crazy that it can't be true.



Or should we listen to them and actually investigate what is really going on in the World.


Is an actual investigation into these things actually impossible with so many powerful invested interests that are going to make billions out of this?


Why are the media so quick to silence and ridicule people who dare to question these things?

Emme

NaFirinne wrote: »

.Why are the media so quick to silence and ridicule people who dare to question these things?

For the same reason that your post will be ridiculed and vilified on Boards.

I am not a scientist so I don't fully understand the genetics behind the virus which causes COVID-19. I also cannot understand why so many heavy handed control measures bordering on Martial Law were brought in worldwide because of this virus. People were first told to wear gloves but were not told to dispose of them in a special biohazard unit. Now people are being told to wear mask and have not been told to dispose of them in a special biohazard unit. The advice from governments all over the world changes all the time like they're making it up as they go along. The only thing that doesn't change is people's lack of freedom.

The Covid-19 crisis is a dictatorial megalomaniac's wet dream.

NaFirinne

NaFirinne wrote: »

Various scientists have now come out and said that it's very likely that Covid 19 is a man made virus.

But the vast majority of scientists involved in the actually issue don't say this.

Are they all involved in the conspiracy?

Why should we trust random scientists who are disagreeing with the consensus?
Especial since at least one of them has a profit motive in selling a controversial book?

How about all the "scientists" and "experts" who also claimed that SARS, MERS, Ebola, Zika and AIDS are all man made? Should be believe all of them too?

NaFirinne wrote: »

Why are the media so quick to silence and ridicule people who dare to question these things?

Well for one, they aren't being silenced.
And they aren't "questioning things".
They are making false or unsupported claims. So yes, they should be ridiculed for that. Much like the cranks who claimed the exact same stuff about every other major disease in the last few decades.

Dohnjoe

Emme wrote: »

I also cannot understand why so many heavy handed control measures bordering on Martial Law were brought in worldwide because of this virus.

To combat the pandemic

People were first told to wear gloves but were not told to dispose of them in a special biohazard unit. Now people are being told to wear mask and have not been told to dispose of them in a special biohazard unit. The advice from governments all over the world changes all the time like they're making it up as they go along.

Yes, that's because we are making up some things as we go along. Pandemics aren't new, but the scale/size/type of this particular one in this modern society is fairly unprecedented

The only thing that doesn't change is people's lack of freedom.

Covid19 doesn't care about your freedom, your world views or your political persuasions.

Dohnjoe

NaFirinne wrote: »

Various scientists have now come out and said that it's very likely that Covid 19 is a man made virus.

Keyword: various. The current consensus among related scientists, experts and virologists is that the virus is natural not man-made

NaFirinne

King Mob wrote: »

But the vast majority of scientists involved in the actually issue don't say this.

Are they all involved in the conspiracy?

Why should we trust random scientists who are disagreeing with the consensus?
Especial since at least one of them has a profit motive in selling a controversial book?

How about all the "scientists" and "experts" who also claimed that SARS, MERS, Ebola, Zika and AIDS are all man made? Should be believe all of them too?


Well for one, they aren't being silenced.
And they aren't "questioning things".
They are making false or unsupported claims. So yes, they should be ridiculed for that. Much like the cranks who claimed the exact same stuff about every other major disease in the last few decades.

These are highly regarded Scientists that are coming out and saying this.


I would say that many scientists would be afraid in this day and age to come out and speak the truth, especially if they are working for a corporation or University which would simply dis hone them and fire them for doing so, or they have their funding cut.


Loosing your job is a big motivator to stay quiet and just get on with what your being told to do.


Just look what is happening to the group of doctors in America that have come out and confirmed that hydroxychloroquine does actually work in combating Covid19.

Also In June Ex-head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove says coronavirus 'is man-made' and was 'released by accident' - after seeing 'important' scientific report.



How can you classify these people as being random when they are highly regarded in their field.

Nobel price winning Scientist is not random, President of the world academy if Biomedical sciences is not random. Ex-head of MI6 is not random.


They are brave.

NaFirinne

NaFirinne wrote: »

These are highly regarded Scientists that are coming out and saying this.

...

Nobel price winning Scientist is not random, President of the world academy if Biomedical sciences is not random. Ex-head of MI6 is not random.


They are brave.

But this is an argument from authority.

Why would a scientist be immune to being wrong just because he has a noble prize?
What about all the noble prize winners who agree with the consensus?


Could you go back and address my other points please:
Especial since at least one of them has a profit motive in selling a controversial book?

How about all the "scientists" and "experts" who also claimed that SARS, MERS, Ebola, Zika and AIDS are all man made? Should be believe all of them too?

Dohnjoe

NaFirinne wrote: »

These are highly regarded Scientists that are coming out and saying this.

And there are many more highly regarded scientists who aren't stating this. It's important to look at the big picture, consensus is key.

It's easy to fall into a trap of selection bias, e.g. 10 scientists could be saying X, which could naturally lead someone to believe X is true (moreso if it matches that person's preconceived notions or world views)

However if 1000 other scientists are saying Y, that changes the picture entirely

NaFirinne

King Mob wrote: »

But this is an argument from authority.

Why would a scientist be immune to being wrong just because he has a noble prize?
What about all the noble prize winners who agree with the consensus?


Could you go back and address my other points please:
Especial since at least one of them has a profit motive in selling a controversial book?

How about all the "scientists" and "experts" who also claimed that SARS, MERS, Ebola, Zika and AIDS are all man made? Should be believe all of them too?

Just because he is selling a book doesn't mean he is wrong and what he is saying should be investigated properly and thoroughly.



Likewise to the rest of the claims of viruses being man made. I am not a scientist but if a scientist is claiming man made origins for a virus then he should explain why he has come to that conclusion, giving facts and reason.


If they are making this public then it should be explained in a way the public can understand.



If other scientists are refuting this claim then they should explain how exactly these viruses will come into being from natural means.


I would like openness in getting to the bottom of all these things.


In this day and age with all the warmongering going on in the world it's not outside the realm of possibility that countries can develop bio-weapons in the form of viruses make them look like natural evolving viruses and deploy them on various countries.


Especially when there is global financial gains and power to be made.

NaFirinne

NaFirinne wrote: »

Just because he is selling a book doesn't mean he is wrong and what he is saying should be investigated properly and thoroughly.

No. It means he has a profit motive for falsifying and exaggerating claims.
You are accusing the vast majority of scientists of being complicit in a massive conspiracy based purely on a supposed motive.

This seems like a double standard on your part.

Have you read the book? What peer review did it go through? What evidence does it provide?

NaFirinne wrote: »

Likewise to the rest of the claims of viruses being man made. I am not a scientist but if a scientist is claiming man made origins for a virus then he should explain why he has come to that conclusion, giving facts and reason.

And other scientists have claimed that SARS, MERS, Zika and AIDs are all man made.
Do you believe those scientists?

NaFirinne wrote: »

If they are making this public then it should be explained in a way the public can understand.

If other scientists are refuting this claim then they should explain how exactly these viruses will come into being from natural means.

I would like openness in getting to the bottom of all these things.

But they already have done this.
What research have you read and why do you reject it?

NaFirinne wrote: »

In this day and age with all the warmongering going on in the world it's not outside the realm of possibility that countries can develop bio-weapons in the form of viruses make them look like natural evolving viruses and deploy them on various countries.

Especially when there is global financial gains and power to be made.

And it's also possible that's it's a natural virus.
It's more possible because there's tons examples of natural viruses.

You can also make this exact same argument for any disease, so does that mean you also believe AIDs is a man made illness? SARS? MERS?

That's the issue you keep avoiding. Your claim has been made before. It's just a recycling of a decades old conspiracy theory.

NaFirinne

I do get the opposite end of the spectrum though.

In March we also have highly regarded scientists from Scripps Research coming out and saying how covid 19 has a natural origin.

I wonder though when they were studying the covid19 strain were they studying the full genome or just part of it.

Here are their articles supporting a natural origin - https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/03/200317175442.htm, https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-not-human-made-in-lab.html

Emme

Emme wrote: »

............ Now people are being told to wear mask and have not been told to dispose of them in a special biohazard unit................

Why does general waste not suffice? I believe it's incinerated.

Elmer Blooker

Dohnjoe wrote: »

To combat the pandemic



Yes, that's because we are making up some things as we go along. Pandemics aren't new, but the scale/size/type of this particular one in this modern society is fairly unprecedented



Covid19 doesn't care about your freedom, your world views or your political persuasions.

Why are the media so quick to silence and ridicule people who dare to question these things?

Sorry but I don't see the connection between this virus and censorship.

NaFirinne

the book was release in Italian just last week. I don't speak italian so I will have to wait for an english translation.

However these are various articles from Italian news sites covering the story.

I use google translator to read them.

http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Prof-Tritto:-COVID-19-was-created-in-the-Wuhan-laboratory-and-is-now-in-the-hands-of-the-Chinese-military-50719.html

https://www.centrostudilivatino.it/covid-19-e-cina-la-chimera-che-ha-cambiato-il-mondo/

https://telewizjarepublika.pl/covid-19-zostal-stworzony-sztucznie-zdaniem-prof-tritto-tak-jego-argumenty-sa-przekonujace,99708.html

NaFirinne

NaFirinne wrote: »

the book was release in Italian just last week. I don't speak italian so I will have to wait for an english translation.

However these are various articles from Italian news sites covering the story.

Ok. You haven't read it and don't know what peer review it went through if any.
You don't know what verifiable evidence he's supplied if any.

You also have dodged the point about the fact he has a profit motive for lying and exaggerating. I take that to mean you can't address that either.

So we're left with the fact the only reason you have to believe his guy is his authority.

And this leads back to the other points you've dodged.
Many scientists equally as authoritive as him have claimed that SARS, MERS, Zika, Ebola, AIDs et al are also man made.
You haven't addressed this point and you haven't said that you believe these people and these conspiracies.
I will take that to mean that you don't believe them and you realise that such claims are ridiculous.

So rather than chase you down on points you aren't going to address:

Why do you believe the conspiracy theories about Covid-19 when they are exactly the same as the ones about every other major disease in the last few decades?

NaFirinne

King Mob wrote: »

Ok. You haven't read it and don't know what peer review it went through if any.
You don't know what verifiable evidence he's supplied if any.

You also have dodged the point about the fact he has a profit motive for lying and exaggerating. I take that to mean you can't address that either.

So we're left with the fact the only reason you have to believe his guy is his authority.

And this leads back to the other points you've dodged.
Many scientists equally as authoritive as him have claimed that SARS, MERS, Zika, Ebola, AIDs et al are also man made.
You haven't addressed this point and you haven't said that you believe these people and these conspiracies.
I will take that to mean that you don't believe them and you realise that such claims are ridiculous.

So rather than chase you down on points you aren't going to address:

Why do you believe the conspiracy theories about Covid-19 when they are exactly the same as the ones about every other major disease in the last few decades?

I haven't dodged the questions. I believe that his claims should be openly reviewed and investigated. He is not someone that you can ignore. the man is very successful and I don't believe that financial gain is behind his motives, especially when you compare the astronomical financial gain there is in developing vaccines for the virus.


Also we have never had a vaccine before that has had such a global impact that it's caused governments to basically remove peoples freedoms and impose dictatorial directives on people on such a global scale the effects of which will be far more devastating then the actual virus itself.

TheIrishGrover

NaFirinne wrote: »

These are highly regarded Scientists that are coming out and saying this.


I would say that many scientists would be afraid in this day and age to come out and speak the truth, especially if they are working for a corporation or University which would simply dis hone them and fire them for doing so, or they have their funding cut.


Loosing your job is a big motivator to stay quiet and just get on with what your being told to do.


Just look what is happening to the group of doctors in America that have come out and confirmed that hydroxychloroquine does actually work in combating Covid19.

Also In June Ex-head of MI6 Sir Richard Dearlove says coronavirus 'is man-made' and was 'released by accident' - after seeing 'important' scientific report.



How can you classify these people as being random when they are highly regarded in their field.

Nobel price winning Scientist is not random, President of the world academy if Biomedical sciences is not random. Ex-head of MI6 is not random.


They are brave.

FYP
Just look what is happening to the group of doctors in America that have come out and alleged that hydroxychloroquine does actually work in combating Covid19....... Lead by a scientist that believes that scientists are developing a vaccine to make people not religious and that witches and demons have sex with people in their dreams. When Facebook took down her claims as being against their misinformation policies she stated that Jesus Christ would take down their servers. Who believes in the healing power of prayer.

Now I have no problems with people's beliefs but it has no place in the scientific method.

Lead by scientists who, as others have said, have a vested financial interest in promoting these viewpoints.

There would always be some dissenting voices and this can be healthy. Actual debate comparing and reviewing verifiable data is an important part of the scientific process. But when the dissenting voices are driven by religious/political beliefs (Those scientists are being sponsored by the right-wing Tea Party wing of the Republican Party) or by profit then their motives are suspect.

These people are not brave, they are being driven not by science but by religious/political beliefs and profit.

NaFirinne

NaFirinne wrote: »

I haven't dodged the questions.

But you have. You haven't addressed them at all. Not sure why you are pretending otherwise.

NaFirinne wrote: »

I believe that his claims should be openly reviewed and investigated. He is not someone that you can ignore. the man is very successful and I don't believe that financial gain is behind his motives, especially when you compare the astronomical financial gain there is in developing vaccines for the virus.

But h'es publishing a book about his claims. That's financial motive.
Therefore, by your logic his claims should be completely suspect. But because you agree with his claims, you are applying a double standard.

Why should he claims be reviewed?
Because of his authority?

Should the claims about SARS. MERS and AIDs etc also be reviewed and assumed to be vast conspiracies too?
This is the point you keep dodging.

NaFirinne wrote: »

aused governments to basically remove peoples freedoms and impose dictatorial directives on people on such a global scale the effects of which will be far more devastating then the actual virus itself.

Lol.
That's very silly and hyperbolic.

Emme

Augeo wrote: »

Why does general waste not suffice? I believe it's incinerated.

If I can't walk into a shop without a mask for fear of infecting anybody why can I take my mask off and put it into an ordinary bin? If I exhale Covid-19 particles into the inside of the mask do they suddenly stop being virulent once I take off the mask?

Also people are not being instructed in the correct way to put on and dispose of a surgical mask. Anyone who works with patients in a hospital is taught this and used masks in a hospital setting are considered to be clinical waste. Clinical waste in hospitals and laboratories has to go into special biohazard bins. That includes used wound dressings, swabs from patients and in laboratories any waste deemed hazardous.

I would have thought that used facemasks and gloves worn to prevent Covid-19 were hazardous waste. If they are put into ordinary bins they might eventually get incinerated but not straight away. I put my used masks into a plastic bag which I tie shut (like a doggie poo bag) and burn them when I get home. Yes, burning-plastic-bad-make-Greta-cry, but which is more hazardous, burnt plastic fumes or hazardous waste from a virus we are told is deadly enough to justify shutting down the global economy for months.

There are used facemasks thrown indiscriminately everywhere. It is difficult not to walk on one as you make you way (masked of course) about your business in any village, town or city. If the pandemic is as bad as we are being told this is spreading infection and will ensure lockdowns don't end any time soon.

Emme

Emme wrote: »

If I can't walk into a shop without a mask for fear of infecting anybody why can I take my mask off and put it into an ordinary bin? If I exhale Covid-19 particles into the inside of the mask do they suddenly stop being virulent once I take off the mask?

Because you don't spend a lot of time eating things from the bin I imagine.

What do you believe is the real explanation here since you've already figured out the governments sneaky lie?
That the masks are actually spreading the virus more so governments can keep the lockdown going more?

That's very silly.

Emme

King Mob wrote: »

Because you don't spend a lot of time eating things from the bin I imagine.

The virus is airborne. Nobody has to eat anything from the bin for the virus to be spread after somebody puts a used facemask in there.

King Mob wrote: »

What do you believe is the real explanation here since you've already figured out the governments sneaky lie?

I did not state anywhere (i) that the governments are telling lies; (ii) that I think or know otherwise.

King Mob wrote: »

That the masks are actually spreading the virus more so governments can keep the lockdown going more?

That's very silly.

Why is it silly? If used masks are thrown everywhere this can spread infection, more people may continue to get sick so lockdowns might have to continue.

I did not suggest anywhere that there was a government plot to get people to throw used masks around to spread the virus and make more people sick. Where did you get that idea? I did make a reasonable suggestion that used facemasks be disposed of in a safe way in proper biohazard bins to prevent the spread of infection.

Emme

Emme wrote: »

The virus is airborne. Nobody has to eat anything from the bin for the virus to be spread after somebody puts a used facemask in there.

It's airbourne because it's being expelled from people. Hence why a mask helps lower it's spread.

How do you propose this happens from a bin?

Emme wrote: »

Why is it silly?

Why is it silly to suggest the government are tricking people into extending the lockdowns by telling them incorrect information?

Emme wrote: »

I made a reasonable suggestion that used facemasks be disposed of in a safe way in proper biohazard bins to prevent the spread of infection.

And this is based on your PhD research? Or was it a paper you wrote in a scientific journal?

NaFirinne

King Mob wrote: »

But you have. You haven't addressed them at all. Not sure why you are pretending otherwise.

But h'es publishing a book about his claims. That's financial motive.
Therefore, by your logic his claims should be completely suspect. But because you agree with his claims, you are applying a double standard.

Why should he claims be reviewed?
Because of his authority?

Should the claims about SARS. MERS and AIDs etc also be reviewed and assumed to be vast conspiracies too?
This is the point you keep dodging.



Lol.
That's very silly and hyperbolic.

From my point of view, while publishing a book may have some financial gain. This would be no where near the financial loss the man would occur if what he was saying he could not back up. He would loss all reputation and as a result his career. I can't see how this is done for financial gain. Especially since the book is currently in Italian it's not going to have a very large demographic of people reading or buying it.


What finacial gain does an ex-head of MI6 have? What financial gain does Luc Montagnier have?


His Claims should be reviewed precisely because of his reputation and he is the President of the World academy of Biomedical Sciences and Technologies. He didn't get there by being a crack pot scientist.

NaFirinne

NaFirinne wrote: »

From my point of view, while publishing a book may have some financial gain. This would be no where near the financial loss the man would occur if what he was saying he could not back up. He would loss all reputation and as a result his career. I can't see how this is done for financial gain. Especially since the book is currently in Italian it's not going to have a very large demographic of people reading or buying it.

But he still has financial incentive which you are ignoring entirely because you want to believe his claims.
It's a double standard.

You "can't see how" because you're pretending he doesn't have a motive.

NaFirinne wrote: »

What finacial gain does an ex-head of MI6 have? What financial gain does Luc Montagnier have?

Dunno. Never said they had a financial motive. They could be wrong for a great number of reasons.

NaFirinne wrote: »

His Claims should be reviewed precisely because of his reputation and he is the President of the World academy of Biomedical Sciences and Technologies. He didn't get there by being a crack pot scientist.

But that's an argument from authority. As you've admitted, you don't know what evidence he's produced, if any at all.

And again, you're still ignoring the other point.
Other "experts" with the same level of authority claim all sorts of wrong and wacky stuff.
"Experts" claimed that SARS was man made.
The same was said of MERS, Zika, Ebola, AIDS...

Do you believe all of those are man made?

I don't think you do, hence why you keep dodging the point.

You know those claims were crap and the authority of the experts who promote those claims isn't very convincing.