Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

Polar101 · 15-09-2020 09:38AM

hmmm wrote: »

Yeah. This attempt to have "balance" on everything has led us into a dangerous place in recent years. It gives the impression that there is a reasonable debate being had, when the reality there can be a thousand experts on one side of the argument, and only one crank on the other.

And also - strong opinions aren't facts.

I'm all for balance myself, but not everything can be debated equally.

And before someone says "who gets to decide what is the right opinion", often we're dealing with flat earth -level of debate, so it's not really a great loss if some opinions get treated with less importance. Unless they are able to present some actual facts.

drunkmonkey · 15-09-2020 09:39AM

KaneToad wrote: »

Very true. Although I wouldn't fully agree with your repeal example. There were some who were against repeal but weren't religious. They were rarely given a platform... the easy out for media was to default to Iona Institute for their opinion.

Zamparelli was correctly forced to change tack. Debating scientific fact with non qualified opinion should not be facilitated during a pandemic. There is an argument for facilitating it in an academic setting but not on a 'yoof' radio station. I don't think she'd be a qualified moderator in any event .

There's Scientific fact on both sides. You need an open and honest based discussion. That's not happening.

Longing · 15-09-2020 09:41AM

Last week I was relying on today's plan to be a coherent and precise way forward. But we are already hearing mix messages on the level plan. This will not go well for the future and our fight against this virus. I'm afraid what we are seeing there is to many in the one bed. Also old saying I used to hear 'I maybe crazy but not stupid' Well in this case going by the numbers plan they are both.

stephenjmcd · 15-09-2020 09:42AM

DangerScouse wrote: »

Most right thinking people couldn't give a hoot about the pubs. What is it with Irish peoples obsession with drinking??

Its dangling the carrot plain and simple. Need to give people something at the end for them to buy into it at the start

Funsterdelux · 15-09-2020 09:44AM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I would see it the other way actually. By pairing experts up against vocal laypeople it paints a certain picture already before a single word was spoken. Pair up experts against experts.

But in the case of masks you might say there aren't any anti mask experts. But I seriously doubt that. There are in the minority but they do exist. After all an entire country goes with anti-mask and is doing much better than most of the high restriction countries.

Also don't forget with a subject as contentious as this, even if you were an expert and your opinion on masks wasn't on the mainstream side, it could actually be career suicide to put yourself on the spot. There simply isn't any rationality and sobriety in the whole discourse. Its all being painted as 'nut jobs' versus 'experts'. If you were a doctor you wouldnt want to land yourself on the side of the 'nutjobs' and have the twitter mob against you in the morning.

There were plenty of anti mask "experts" around 6 months ago, and they were all medical professionals. They could ask them or maybe they have changed their tune?

wadacrack · 15-09-2020 09:53AM

wadacrack wrote: »

49 now in hospital, its increasing now.By next weekend it will probably be near 70. Schools and Colleges set to open likely to see its impact in 3 weeks

Posted that 8 days ago, was hammered by a few for being negative etc. Just being realistic it probably better in the long term if their any some restrictions in Dublin today. They have been too slow to do anything and within in 10 days we are going to see the effects of the more recent surge. Likely to be over 100 requiring hospital treatment. Current trajectory unsustainable and could be looking at level 5 restrictions before Christmas if nothing changes. Third Level about to return also in a few weeks , this will more challenging to control compared to schools. More variable with travel and accommodation etc.

NegativeCreep · 15-09-2020 09:56AM

Polar101 wrote: »

It's a story about an annual report recently published, which highlights problems in prepardness levels for the ongoing pandemic, and possible future ones.

Should RTE just ignore it, because it might upset and annoy people? Besides it's from Reuters.

I'm not a fan of RTE myself, but some of the criticism here is infantile. I'd very much prefer governments were better prepared in the future (such as they were in South Korea, for example).

Well I was only joking so...

stephenjmcd · 15-09-2020 09:57AM

wadacrack wrote: »

Posted that 8 days ago, was hammered by a few for being negative etc. Just being realistic it probably better in the long term if their any some restrictions in Dublin today. They have been too slow to do anything and within in 10 days we are going to see the effects of the more recent surge. Likely to be over 100 requiring hospital treatment. Current trajectory unsustainable and could be looking at level 5 restrictions before Christmas if nothing changes. Third Level about to return also in a few weeks , this will more challenging to control compared to schools. More variable with travel and accommodation etc.

On 3rd levels, most are nearly fully online until at least after Christmas and some have already decided it's online for the whole year.

I don't think they'll be as big an issue as many think, the vast majority were already set up for virtual learning before covid

PmMeUrDogs · 15-09-2020 09:58AM

So we're not going to be in stage 2, and we're not going to be in stage 3 in Dublin.

What? This staged plan was only recently announced and they're already afraid to follow it? Because it's Dublin?

Either go directly to stage 3, or leave us as we are. I'm not pro lockdown in the slightest but make a bloody decision and stick by it. Muddying the waters suggesting bits from each stage to be imposed is ridiculous, confusing and is just going to infuriate the public.

owlbethere · 15-09-2020 09:59AM

I hope Leo announces the plan they have. MM sounds like a priest and a noon announcement will have many people falling asleep.

Busi_Girl08 · 15-09-2020 10:01AM

owlbethere wrote: »

I hope Leo announces the plan they have. MM sounds like a priest and a noon announcement will have many people falling asleep.

I reckon Leo is going to throw MM to the wolves again.

wadacrack · 15-09-2020 10:03AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

On 3rd levels, most are nearly fully online until at least after Christmas and some have already decided it's online for the whole year.

I don't think they'll be as big an issue as many think, the vast majority were already set up for virtual learning before covid

They might not if this is the case yea. I wasn't aware of that. That's very hard on students.

15-09-2020 10:04AM

drunkmonkey wrote: »

This made me laugh,

Meanwhile in Ireland, Professor Martin Cormican, HSE clinical lead on infection control, has suggested contract tracing should still be carried out even if someone who tests positive, or their close contacts, were all wearing face masks at the time. Face masks did not necessarily downgrade the public health risk.

If you are in someones company at less than 2 meters for more than 15 minutes, mask don't give a magical protection. Better than nothing, but not complete. Where they do contribute is in the untraceable community spread

Nermal · 15-09-2020 10:04AM

seamus wrote: »

Because it implies that the two sides of the debate are perfectly balanced and therefore that the "contrary" opinion is just as valid as the data and the expert opinion.

hmmm wrote: »

Yeah. This attempt to have "balance" on everything has led us into a dangerous place in recent years. It gives the impression that there is a reasonable debate being had, when the reality there can be a thousand experts on one side of the argument, and only one crank on the other.

Such complete twaddle from both of you. This is not settled science.

There is plenty of disagreement among serious commentators as to the effectiveness and appropriateness of making the population wear masks, and indeed more or less every other policy response you could name.

rob316 · 15-09-2020 10:07AM

PmMeUrDogs wrote: »

So we're not going to be in stage 2, and we're not going to be in stage 3 in Dublin.

What? This staged plan was only recently announced and they're already afraid to follow it? Because it's Dublin?

Either go directly to stage 3, or leave us as we are. I'm not pro lockdown in the slightest but make a bloody decision and stick by it. Muddying the waters suggesting bits from each stage to be imposed is ridiculous, confusing and is just going to infuriate the public.

He'll just stand like an idiot and point at NPHET and say they said we need to do this. It's just a laughably weak leadership.

I'm anti lockdown, but you must have courage in your conviction and actions.

Boggles · 15-09-2020 10:09AM

Nermal wrote: »

Such complete twaddle from both of you. This is not settled science.

There is plenty of disagreement among serious commentators as to the effectiveness and appropriateness of making the population wear masks, and indeed more or less every other policy response you could name.

Serious like?

:pac:

Funsterdelux · 15-09-2020 10:10AM

owlbethere wrote: »

I hope Leo announces the plan they have. MM sounds like a priest and a noon announcement will have many people falling asleep.

Its funny, when Leo was Taoiseach people wanted the then Tanaiste Simon Coveney to make announcements, as he spoke like a human compared to Leo's unnatural robotic movie inspired speeches.

Now they want Leo back because MM sounds like a priest

Downlinz · 15-09-2020 10:11AM

PmMeUrDogs wrote: »

So we're not going to be in stage 2, and we're not going to be in stage 3 in Dublin.

What? This staged plan was only recently announced and they're already afraid to follow it? Because it's Dublin?

Either go directly to stage 3, or leave us as we are. I'm not pro lockdown in the slightest but make a bloody decision and stick by it. Muddying the waters suggesting bits from each stage to be imposed is ridiculous, confusing and is just going to infuriate the public.

They've undermined the plan before it's even been officially announced, absolutely incredible.

By giving Dublin exceptions and special treatment they've also ensured the people in other counties won't comply if and when the moment comes where they attempt enforce stage 3 restrictions.

polesheep · 15-09-2020 10:14AM

KaneToad wrote: »

Very true. Although I wouldn't fully agree with your repeal example. There were some who were against repeal but weren't religious. They were rarely given a platform... the easy out for media was to default to Iona Institute for their opinion.

Zamparelli was correctly forced to change tack. Debating scientific fact with non qualified opinion should not be facilitated during a pandemic. There is an argument for facilitating it in an academic setting but not on a 'yoof' radio station. I don't think she'd be a qualified moderator in any event .

It's a radio programme not the Open University. Anything should be possible on a radio programme. Unless, of course, you see RTE as a propaganda tool.

15-09-2020 10:15AM

growleaves wrote: »

Public discourse is a joke seamus. There is official opinion, and then outwith official opinion everything else is dismissed as evil/insane/illegitimate by multiple organs and authorities.

Even respectable scientists with the "wrong" opinion are either dismissed as persons or are said to be outnumbered by other scientists ('consensus').

Your own position is that censorship shouldn't be necessary as long as everyone understands and accepts beforehand that there is one legitimate source of opinion which is right.

If there is a debate to be had, let the debate happen. The contrary opinion on masks is largely coming from those not qualified to assess the impacts and largely expressed in the language of the libertarian right however.

The debate to be had on masks is that some believe they present some magical immunity barrier, when in reality they are a supplementary measure to reduce the instance of community spread and thus increase the effectiveness of test trace etc.

stephenjmcd · 15-09-2020 10:16AM

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1305797080213057536?s=19

Funsterdelux · 15-09-2020 10:19AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1305797080213057536?s=19

Maybe theyll give it a sexy name for Dublin

"Level 2 plus"

"Level 2 extra"

Or even

"Level 3 lite"

polesheep · 15-09-2020 10:20AM

Downlinz wrote: »

They've undermined the plan before it's even been officially announced, absolutely incredible.

By giving Dublin exceptions and special treatment they've also ensured the people in other counties won't comply if and when the moment comes where they attempt enforce stage 3 restrictions.

I think the 'lockdown' for Kildare showed that lockdowns are now basically unenforceable.

hetuzozaho · 15-09-2020 10:20AM

owlbethere wrote: »

I hope Leo announces the plan they have. MM sounds like a priest and a noon announcement will have many people falling asleep.

He'll announce it before it to reporters somewhere like he usually does!

DangerScouse · 15-09-2020 10:21AM

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Its dangling the carrot plain and simple. Need to give people something at the end for them to buy into it at the start

The carrott should be the health of ones self and others.

Nermal · 15-09-2020 10:23AM

KaneToad wrote: »

Debating scientific fact with non qualified opinion should not be facilitated during a pandemic.

I mean, it's a scientific fact there's a city larger than Dublin just over a thousand miles away where no-one wears a mask or ever has. Where you'll be at more or less the same risk of contracting the virus, and that risk is steady rather than increasing like in Dublin. And this is despite the fact that there are fewer restrictions in place on your activity.

There are countries where there has never been a lockdown that appear to have the virus 'under control' and countries that have been in lockdown for months with seemingly no effect.

This is not Newtonian gravity. There is scope for disagreement, for every example there is a counter-examples. There are many facts.

polesheep · 15-09-2020 10:23AM

Deleted User wrote: »

If there is a debate to be had, let the debate happen. The contrary opinion on masks is largely coming from those not qualified to assess the impacts and largely expressed in the language of the libertarian right however.

The debate to be had on masks is that some believe they present some magical immunity barrier, when in reality they are a supplementary measure to reduce the instance of community spread and thus increase the effectiveness of test trace etc.

Partly true, but you would have to acknowledge the twitter screamers on the other side of the debate "Wear your *****n mask" etc.

Call me Al · 15-09-2020 10:26AM

Are figures on the age range of those in ICU available or published?

hotmail.com · 15-09-2020 10:28AM

There was always an issue with the lockdown phrase, as it was never a lockdown.

Hector Savage · 15-09-2020 10:29AM

https://twitter.com/GrahamNeary/status/1305474304797278208?s=20

It's an absolute fhurkhing disgrace!!

Covid 19 Part XXIII-33,444 in ROI(1,792 deaths) 9,541 in NI(577 deaths)(22/09)Read OP

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