Daughter not happy with LC results - anyone else?

Millionaire only not wrote: »

There was never going to be a fair way, just can’t be done ! They gave a result if ur not happy sit the exams u weren’t happy with end off .
At end of the day they were only estimates so never going to be fool prove

1. Agree, but the exam is the fairest we have, anonymous, controlled, you perform or not yourself on the day.
2. Sit the exams now would be fine IF they allowed the results to stand for college places. As it stands, they won't be considered, so how is that a fair solution?
3. They are only estimates? But your college place is depending on this "estimate"!

No the exam results will NOT be accepted for college this year. That option is only available for applications for next year and that opens a whole new lot of questions.

Iscreamkone wrote: »

Exam pressure is something that we should not try to eliminate. For all students, good and bad, we need to teach resilience and coping with adversity. Your solution will make them soft

Soft? 17/18 year olds? What nonsense.

There should always be exams, it just shouldn’t be 100% of the mark - it should be 25/30% in my opinion and the rest internal assessment. Now that’s fair.

Plenty of 2020 students will reapply for 2021.
With or without a further increase in points due to sitting the November exams in a few subjects, these students will aim to compete with the 2021 students for entry to the competitive courses.
The students who are unhappy now could be smiling in 12 months. The 2021 LC students will then be complaining that they are the ones who were shafted.

Gerry T wrote: »

Places this yr would be full. They would have to apply next yr and compete with that yr's students.

The OP said that they couldn't apply to college with the grades from the written exams, which isn't true. Of course they won't be able to start a course half way through a college year. I didn't think that needed to be pointed out.

As grades were up this year in comparison to last year and they can mix and match grades from calculated and written exams, I would say this years students have an advantage over the students sitting the exam in 2021.


And we don't use textspeak on the forum.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I may be forgetting something, but I'm pretty sure there was a concerted campaign by parents and students to have this years exams abandoned. Weren't the students polled and the vast majority wanted them called off?

I guess for some students it's a case of be careful of what you wish for.

IMO the exams should've been conducted in July/August as they had originally intended to.

Here's one 'Journalist' who spear headed the campaign to abandon the LC in August and get predicted grades

She was actively calling on Irish parents to apply to the Uk college which would force teachers here to provide predicted grades..
Parents can call a halt to the flawed plan that would force their children to sit the Leaving Cert, writes Dr Ciara Kelly

and when she gets what she wants. Now it's

middle-class-students-have-been-thrown-under-the-bus

In saying all that I do think there has been dicking around with the system to go the opposite to the UK.

I’m currently in fifth year and the amount of people advocating for continuous assessments genuinely scares me..

I’d rather be stressing over tests for two weeks instead of two whole years of my life. We all have our off days, even during our Leaving Cert. The only difference is that doing a few bad class tests would honestly discourage me immensely if it had any bearing on my final result- at least now I know it doesn’t matter, I can make it up, see where I went wrong and I can improve for the real thing. All it takes is a few bad grades, and it’ll be a blip on your record.. and lets face it, not everyones in the position to be studying for every exam 24/7 everyday all day.

The Leaving Cert exams are just like that, done and dusted. Would much rather prefer that!!

Teacher bias is also a huge issue- it’s pure retarded idealistic nonsense saying “teachers shouldn’t hate students for no reason and show preference blah blah blah” because lets face it, it DOES happen. A lot more frequently than we’d like. My German teacher can’t be described in any kinder terms than being a pure bitch, she actually prefers students who mess in class and get solid NG’s to students who try. She’s by far the only exception, would you want these people to have any say in your child's final grade? Why should I suck up to her so she doesn’t try to downgrade me every chance she gets?

The LC is the best system truly, anonymous and the fairest tbh. It not only gives students a platform to prove themselves, but it allows you to make mistakes along the road and learn from them in the end.. isn’t this what learning is all about truly?

You could’ve missed 3 months of schoolwork after being severely hospitalized. With final exams you can catch up, with continuous assessments that blip in the record would REMAIN. Is that what you want?

Should I sacrifice my social life and mental health so I spend 8 hours of study after school so I can ace every class test I have to at least get a shot at applying for medicine?? Be realistic!!

tiktoktoegirl wrote: »

I’m currently in fifth year and the amount of people advocating for continuous assessments genuinely scares me..

I’d rather be stressing over tests for two weeks instead of two whole years of my life. We all have our off days, even during our Leaving Cert. The only difference is that doing a few bad class tests would honestly discourage me immensely if it had any bearing on my final result- at least now I know it doesn’t matter, I can make it up, see where I went wrong and I can improve for the real thing. All it takes is a few bad grades, and it’ll be a blip on your record.. and lets face it, not everyones in the position to be studying for every exam 24/7 everyday all day.

Teacher bias is also a huge issue- it’s pure retarded idealistic nonsense saying “teachers shouldn’t hate students for no reason and show preference blah blah blah” because lets face it, it DOES happen. A lot more frequently than we’d like. My German teacher can’t be described in any kinder terms than being a pure bitch, she actually prefers students who mess in class and get solid NG’s to students who try. She’s by far the only exception, would you want these people to have any say in your child's final grade? Why should I suck up to her so she doesn’t try to downgrade me every chance she gets?

The LC is the best system truly, anonymous and the fairest tbh. It not only gives students a platform to prove themselves, but it allows you to make mistakes along the road and learn from them in the end.. isn’t this what learning is all about truly?

You could’ve missed 3 months of schoolwork after being severely hospitalized. With final exams you can catch up, with continuous assessments that blip in the record would REMAIN. Is that what you want?

Should I sacrifice my social life and mental health so I spend 8 hours of study after school so I can ace every class test I have to at least get a shot at applying for medicine?? Be realistic!!

There are good things about the conventional LC: it's anonymous, so it's kinda meritocratic ðŸ˜; with 7 subjects, it provides a broad education.

But it comes down to what we want from the LC. At the moment, it rewards people who perform well over 3 hours on an afternoon in June. That's not a skill that's transferable to most other areas of life.

I don't have children but I'm a taxpayer, so my perspective is: what kind of work habits does the system instil? I'd prefer to work with somebody who has discipline, can organise their tasks & workload, can work at a steady pace over a longer period, and who can get on with both their peers and, hey, maybe professionals in their 40s too... not somebody who goes on the doss for 2 years but then, somehow, pulls it out of the bag for the big day.

mrsdewinter wrote: »

There are good things about the conventional LC: it's anonymous, so it's kinda meritocratic ðŸ˜; with 7 subjects, it provides a broad education.

But it comes down to what we want from the LC. At the moment, it rewards people who perform well over 3 hours on an afternoon in June. That's not a skill that's transferable to most other areas of life.

I don't have children but I'm a taxpayer, so my perspective is: what kind of work habits does the system instil? I'd prefer to work with somebody who has discipline, can organise their tasks & workload, can work at a steady pace over a longer period, and who can get on with both their peers and, hey, maybe professionals in their 40s too... not somebody who goes on the doss for 2 years but then, somehow, pulls it out of the bag for the big day.

You do realise all those skills are taught fully later on in college and work, right? Cramming is hard enough for the leaving cert, college is a completely different ball game, and that’s not even factoring the level of maturity you gain as you age, are independent and live by yourself etc.

Do you seriously think any 15/16 year olds entering their leaving cycle have such developed organization skills and priorities set? Most are probably thinking of their next house party or prinks.. what you mainly get from the Leaving Cert is your level of academic ability. Those later, essential work ethic skills you learn with personal growth and experience in third level and the workforce.

All of us are young and stupid at some point or another.

rainbowtrout wrote: »

The OP said that they couldn't apply to college with the grades from the written exams, which isn't true. Of course they won't be able to start a course half way through a college year. I didn't think that needed to be pointed out.

As grades were up this year in comparison to last year and they can mix and match grades from calculated and written exams, I would say this years students have an advantage over the students sitting the exam in 2021.


And we don't use textspeak on the forum.

Listen, I was being helpful and yr isn't textspeak. What you said was:

You didn't state that. If students sit the exams in November and for arguments sake get the results around Christmas they can be made an offer of a place but they will need to defer given that half the college year is over. That is common sense.

Basically you said as half the yr is over they would have to defer.
That does suggest you thought they would get offered a place half way through this yr. Which they wouldn't. They would have no option to defer.

bobbyy gee wrote: »

most students got higher scores than if they sat the exam by about 10%

Yep, problem is that the ones at a higher level were marked down because they were cohorted , you were far better being a good student in a mediocre performing class , than being the same student in aclass full of good students.

If the teachers scores were not downgraded then the grade inflation from previous years would have been huge. In other words teachers across the board gave students too many marks. Even so, this year's high scores will be in the system for years to come with students applying in 2021 and 2022 when the points will drift lower, and LC students from 2021 and 2022 having to repeat and apply to lower points years in the future.

Continuous assessment would drive points up as teachers will score too highly.

(Also, there has been very little talk about those who got their points in previous years. How did they get on versus the inflated grades of 2020?)

Iscreamkone wrote: »

If the teachers scores were not downgraded then the grade inflation from previous years would have been huge. In other words teachers across the board gave students too many marks. Even so, this year's high scores will be in the system for years to come with students applying in 2021 and 2022 when the points will drift lower, and LC students from 2021 and 2022 having to repeat and apply to lower points years in the future.

Continuous assessment would drive points up as teachers will score too highly.

(Also, there has been very little talk about those who got their points in previous years. How did they get on versus the inflated grades of 2020?)

I had two doing the LC. For both of them the were marked down in all marks given bar one subject. Yes they both went to a private school where this yr there were no 625 students but in previous years there would be.
For my pair it's no issue as they both got the courses they wanted, they were average students, neither great or poor, but their friends weren't so lucky.
My take on it is the grade the teacher gave is less important to the class ranking.

I'm open to correction on this, the way I see it, without class standardisation if the state proportion (made up) in Maths 5%h1, 10%h2, 10%h3 etc.... then per 100 students 5 get a h1, 10 a h2 and so on. If your school has 100 pupils doing the LC then that school after adjustment will get on average 5 h1 in Maths. This is the inequality of it all, a school that performs consistently better than most, say the institute in Dublin (and no my pair didn't go there) where out of 100 Math's students their is possibly 10 getting a h1, then 5 students get downgraded. Likewise a school that historically might only get 1 or 2 h1's will find 2 or 3 students upgraded.
This is where class ranking is so important if you are ranked 6,7,7 in the class and while you might deserve a h1 your the pupil getting downgraded.
The moral of this sorry saga, for 2021 enroll in a school that performs typically very poorly and make sure your not in a class with all the high achievers in the school.

Schools that would typically perform better than the average school have been disadvantaged, that includes private and public schools. What a student deserved has been replaced by a class ranking so your not measured on your achievement v an exam but v your fellow class mates.

IF correct such a **** and totally biased system. M.Martin hang your head in shame.

p.s. While I disagree with one or two of the grades teaches have given my pair, I do feel they gave what was in the best of their judgement that child deserved. However I don't think it's possible to be fully impartial in getting class ranking correct.

EDIT:
While my pair had their marks reduced, luckily one child had no grades reduced, the other had two grade reductions. But both got border marks, 59 and 69, but in neither case did they get a grade increase.