Daughter not happy with LC results - anyone else?

hamburgham · 11-09-2020 03:17PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

I may be forgetting something, but I'm pretty sure there was a concerted campaign by parents and students to have this years exams abandoned. Weren't the students polled and the vast majority wanted them called off?

I guess for some students it's a case of be careful of what you wish for.

IMO the exams should've been conducted in July/August as they had originally intended to.

Yes, quite funny how the chickens have come home to roost.

Wasn't Ciara Kelly of Newstalk one of the most vociferous media campaigners for the cancellation of the exams. Heard her on the radio today saying she was very worried now about how this standardisation was going to affect her child's CAO choice.

IgoPAP · 11-09-2020 04:21PM

Students: Cancel the exams because of our health (not because we're not bothered to revise for the exam and find this as an easy way out)!

Students: there's nothing wrong with having our grades inflated by our teacher because it's been a tough year and introducing historical school data is prejudicial!

Students: What do you mean the points have risen for my course and now I can't get in?! This is all your fault gubermint!

Pardon me for not feeling pity.

shesty · 11-09-2020 05:46PM

Well I admit I hope it is also remembered in years to come when the argument for abolishing the LC starts to come up again.

It has its critics, and there are things that could be done better, but equally it is an anomymous exam, corrected by a stranger and there is a whole lot to be said in favour of that.

Mrsmum · 11-09-2020 06:14PM

My teacher friend could not have been more against predicted grades or any variation therein. There would be no standard, there would be favouritism from teachers, mocks and other exams were not corrected towards predicted grades, no one knows what a student can or cannot pull off on the day etc etc she would say all summer long. Anyway her son got really fabulous results last Monday and with her delighted mammy hat on, without a hint of irony, she told me his results and said "clearly the process worked after all". So that's the way this LC will be remembered, the winners will say it worked perfectly well and those who were disappointed that it was a failure.

screamer · 11-09-2020 06:19PM

Mrsmum wrote: »

My teacher friend could not have been more against predicted grades or any variation therein. There would be no standard, there would be favouritism from teachers, mocks and other exams were not corrected towards predicted grades, no one knows what a student can or cannot pull off on the day etc etc she would say all summer long. Anyway her son got really fabulous results last Monday and with her delighted mammy hat on, without a hint of irony, she told me his results and said "clearly the process worked after all". So that's the way this LC will be remembered, the winners will say it worked perfectly well and those who were disappointed that it was a failure.

I’d agree with all those points raised. No one knows how the test goes on the day and for sure teachers can inflate grades, so I’m not surprised there were downgraded. Still, Id say that if people are really unhappy and didn’t get what they feel entitled to, repeat the year. It’s one year out of their whole lives, which is nothing if it means happiness.

jimd2 · 12-09-2020 10:56AM

screamer wrote: »

I’d agree with all those points raised. No one knows how the test goes on the day and for sure teachers can inflate grades, so I’m not surprised there were downgraded. Still, Id say that if people are really unhappy and didn’t get what they feel entitled to, repeat the year. It’s one year out of their whole lives, which is nothing if it means happiness.

That’s is a good point regarding repeating as a viable option. Unfortunately there will be a few students affected that have already repeated and effected.

Some very good points made on this thread. I agree that the leaving cert should have gone ahead that time in July but it was a political decision to abandon - not based on a scientific survey of the students or teachers.

Just as opening up the schools was a political decision at a time when bringing back many more students was much more risky.

And the decision to drop the method to standardise the grades close to what the students would be excepted to get was a political decision. For all we know the department could have had the system well figured out and the rug pulled from them.

I think this government is totally spineless and just making off the cuff decisions like this but we seem to have no opposition and I have started a thread about this as I think its a disgrace.

jimd2 · 12-09-2020 11:09AM

Upthewalls1 wrote: »

Although most people wanted the schools track record taken out of the system, it was more fair to keep it in.

How did your daughter fare out in the offers?

I hope she got what she wanted.

Hopefully this debacle will be a life lesson for those affected and give them a hardness and an edge and show them that everything is not fair in this world. And demonstrate that sometimes you get a knock back but that it is possible to come back more experienced and better for it

If it is an option hopefully some can repeat and get what they want next year. One year really is not much in the bigger picture even if they are slightly older than others in the class.

It wasnt me123 · 12-09-2020 11:51AM

shesty wrote: »

Well I admit I hope it is also remembered in years to come when the argument for abolishing the LC starts to come up again.

It has its critics, and there are things that could be done better, but equally it is an anomymous exam, corrected by a stranger and there is a whole lot to be said in favour of that.

I for one hope they abolish the LC in its current form - I agree there should be an exam at the end of the year but it should never be what 12 years of schooling relies on. It should be based on exams, projects, class participation etc. Students should know from 5th Year / 6th Year that their whole schooling will be taken into consideration - not cramming 6 weeks before 1 exam.

And are our teachers so incompetent and crooked that they can’t be impartial in their marking?

My daughter is one of the students who received an assessed grade last Monday - luckily her course doesn’t need points - but realistically, as a chronic asthmatic, she would never be sitting in a hall with 300 others during a pandemic sitting an exam. We couldn’t have taken the chance.

MrMusician18 · 12-09-2020 01:07PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

I for one hope they abolish the LC in its current form - I agree there should be an exam at the end of the year but it should never be what 12 years of schooling relies on. It should be based on exams, projects, class participation etc. Students should know from 5th Year / 6th Year that their whole schooling will be taken into consideration - not cramming 6 weeks before 1 exam.

And are our teachers so incompetent and crooked that they can’t be impartial in their marking?

My daughter is one of the students who received an assessed grade last Monday - luckily her course doesn’t need points - but realistically, as a chronic asthmatic, she would never be sitting in a hall with 300 others during a pandemic sitting an exam. We couldn’t have taken the chance.

This was never going to be the case. The intention was to run the exams in classrooms with 14 other students all spaced out and controlled. The only reason the exams didn't go ahead was because there was political pressure (from students and parents to abandon them - we have schools open now and the incidence/100000 is much higher.

Funny all those students who feared getting covid in exam halls have no fear mixing with those same students in social settings. It was a bs cop out, but it's what the students wanted so they can live with it.

IgoPAP · 12-09-2020 01:09PM

If there's one thing that's clear though all this: the Leaving Cert should have gone ahead this year. There was no excuse not. The government literally bowed down to student pressure because they didn't fancy sitting the exam this year. Cowardly.

chewed · 12-09-2020 01:35PM

My nephew, who has ADHD, was awarded a Fail in OL Maths and he's devastated. He admitted he was bad at the subject but had been getting grinds and willing to cram study to just get a pass result.

I doubt he'll be able to do anything about this result. My sister is still going to appeal it. Personally I think it really unfair by the teacher to do this to him, especially as having maths is so important!

Chiparus · 12-09-2020 01:38PM

IgoPAP wrote: »

If there's one thing that's clear though all this: the Leaving Cert should have gone ahead this year. There was no excuse not. The government literally bowed down to student pressure because they didn't fancy sitting the exam this year. Cowardly.

And what if there was an case in an exam hall and 100 students were then considered "close contacts" and had to isolate?

Millionaire only not · 12-09-2020 02:02PM

IgoPAP wrote: »

If there's one thing that's clear though all this: the Leaving Cert should have gone ahead this year. There was no excuse not. The government literally bowed down to student pressure because they didn't fancy sitting the exam this year. Cowardly.

It only took one to cough to mess with students that were serious about there leaving cert !
Could u really do it to the students serious about there leaving cert ?
Answer it honestly and u know fine well messers in every school ,the supervisor would have had to follow protocol.
All there study messed up and start another exam following day just wasn’t going to work in my opinion there was too many if’s !

Iscreamkone · 12-09-2020 03:34PM

This shows how fantastic our Leaving Cert was. Impartial and beyond question. If anything I’d be for less teacher input into grades or projects.
The people who say that the LC should be changed should be careful what they wish for

Icsics · 12-09-2020 03:39PM

chewed wrote: »

My nephew, who has ADHD, was awarded a Fail in OL Maths and he's devastated. He admitted he was bad at the subject but had been getting grinds and willing to cram study to just get a pass result.

I doubt he'll be able to do anything about this result. My sister is still going to appeal it. Personally I think it really unfair by the teacher to do this to him, especially as having maths is so important!

Have a look at the ‘second chance maths exam’ a lot of colleges now run, if he passed that exam it would count as meeting requirements

It wasnt me123 · 12-09-2020 03:55PM

MrMusician18 wrote: »

This was never going to be the case. The intention was to run the exams in classrooms with 14 other students all spaced out and controlled. The only reason the exams didn't go ahead was because there was political pressure (from students and parents to abandon them - we have schools open now and the incidence/100000 is much higher.

I never heard that they were going into a room with only 14 - where were they going to get all the room space and supervisors to perform this and what about the students who need SNA's beside them - how were they going to do social distancing.

The R number might be higher now, but not in schools and in June they didn't know enough about covid to make that call.

Funny all those students who feared getting covid in exam halls have no fear beside them mixing with those same students in social settings. It was a bs cop out, but it's what the students wanted so they can live with it.

You can tell you didn't have a child in LC with the term cop out. They had been told for 6 years that the LC was the most important exam of their school years - crazy in my opinion and the reason no other western civilised country judges their students and the end of their secondary school years on a 2 week exam and points. They had no teachers since March and were supposed to still sit an exam in July/August, 3 to 4 months later. How ridiculous.

Now is the time to change this system and the curriculum for good. Marks should be judged on the whole school year(s) not just two weeks and this would stop teachers and grinds specialists making money on students fears.

Chiparus · 12-09-2020 03:57PM

Iscreamkone wrote: »

This shows how fantastic our Leaving Cert was. Impartial and beyond question. If anything I’d be for less teacher input into grades or projects.
The people who say that the LC should be changed should be careful what they wish for

HPAT was introduced because the LC was too biased against boys.
3 compulsory langauges is one of the reasons.

Iscreamkone · 12-09-2020 03:59PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

You can tell you didn't have a child in LC with the term cop out. They had been told for 6 years that the LC was the most important exam of their school years - crazy in my opinion and the reason no other western civilised country judges their students and the end of their secondary school years on a 2 week exam and points. They had no teachers since March and were supposed to still sit an exam in July/August, 3 to 4 months later. How ridiculous.

Now is the time to change this system and the curriculum for good. Marks should be judged on the whole school year(s) not just two weeks and this would stop teachers and grinds specialists making money on students fears.

I would disagree with this opinion.
Judging on the whole school year is not as impartial as the present system.

It wasnt me123 · 12-09-2020 04:02PM

Iscreamkone wrote: »

This shows how fantastic our Leaving Cert was. Impartial and beyond question. If anything I’d be for less teacher input into grades or projects.
The people who say that the LC should be changed should be careful what they wish for

If its so fantastic why doesn't any other western civilised country do it? Because its not fantastic. All the curriculum in Ireland does is train our children to pass an exam, that's it. They learn by rota and spit out as much as they can retain in the LC exams.

What about all their work during the year(s)? Projects, class participation? worthless? Why send them to school at all then, why not just let them do previous exams adnauseum at home and get them to learn a poem, book and a period in history. This is not my idea of education and certainly not what I did.

There are too many people getting the necessary educational points to do medicine, teaching etc who are not actually suited to the professions- entrance interview would possibly wean out people not suitable for the caring professions.

It wasnt me123 · 12-09-2020 04:08PM

Iscreamkone wrote: »

I would disagree with this opinion.
Judging on the whole school year is not as impartial as the present system.

I never said my choice for school was impartial I said it judged children on all their skills, not just regergetating stuff in an exam.

And why wouldn't it be impartial? How bad are the teachers that we can't trust them to treat everyone relatively equally?

If one teacher didn't particularly like a child, could not all the other teachers' reviews equalise one teacher? If the child is getting B in most tests, they can't stand over a D in a year end mark.

If the teachers are so bad then change them - I know some of the ones my daughter were taught by were horrendous, mostly in National School - 1 teacher used to get solicitor's letters of complaint - but still he teached.

The system is shocking and needs a complete overhaul, including the curriculum.

Ficheall · 12-09-2020 04:08PM

jimd2 wrote: »

Some very good points made on this thread. I agree that the leaving cert should have gone ahead that time in July but it was a political decision to abandon - not based on a scientific survey of the students or teachers.

No, but it was based on a large vocal cohort complaining about how traumatised they were not knowing whether they would get to skip the exams they were supposedly studying for in two months or not, while the rest of the country was scrambling trying to figure out what would happen the following week in a rapidly evolving situation.

Iscreamkone · 12-09-2020 04:47PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

If its so fantastic why doesn't any other western civilised country do it? Because its not fantastic. All the curriculum in Ireland does is train our children to pass an exam, that's it. They learn by rota and spit out as much as they can retain in the LC exams.

What about all their work during the year(s)? Projects, class participation? worthless? Why send them to school at all then, why not just let them do previous exams adnauseum at home and get them to learn a poem, book and a period in history. This is not my idea of education and certainly not what I did.

There are too many people getting the necessary educational points to do medicine, teaching etc who are not actually suited to the professions- entrance interview would possibly wean out people not suitable for the caring professions.

This country is too small for an interview system.
Also, as for weaning our people not suitable for the caring professions - this is total rubbish- who decides what is suitable. The present system has worked very well and is 100% fair.

It wasnt me123 · 12-09-2020 05:00PM

How can 1 two week exam be fair to judge a child over 12 years of school?

New Zealand has a similar population to us and they use internal and external assessments to enable students to qualify for tertiary schooling.

The weaning of people could be done by the colleges, one would hope that they would have more information about the profession and what is required.

The present system does not work well and needs to be changed - if it was so great every other country would follow our system, they don't because it only judges students on being able to spit out info in exams, it doesn't take into consideration their whole school year.

Iscreamkone · 12-09-2020 08:00PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

How can 1 two week exam be fair to judge a child over 12 years of school?

New Zealand has a similar population to us and they use internal and external assessments to enable students to qualify for tertiary schooling.

The weaning of people could be done by the colleges, one would hope that they would have more information about the profession and what is required.

The present system does not work well and needs to be changed - if it was so great every other country would follow our system, they don't because it only judges students on being able to spit out info in exams, it doesn't take into consideration their whole school year.

I don’t agree with the above.
Why does the present system not work?

Ficheall · 12-09-2020 08:04PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

The weaning of people could be done by the colleges, one would hope that they would have more information about the profession and what is required

Colleges barely filter anyone during the fourish years passing through - hoping they'll do it before admittance is optimistic.

Gerry T · 12-09-2020 09:47PM

chewed wrote:

My nephew, who has ADHD, was awarded a Fail in OL Maths and he's devastated. He admitted he was bad at the subject but had been getting grinds and willing to cram study to just get a pass result.

Sorry to hear that, the teacher may not have failed him, may have been govt down grading him. He'll find out Monday as you can see the teachers grade

It wasnt me123 · 12-09-2020 10:37PM

Iscreamkone wrote: »

I don’t agree with the above.
Why does the present system not work?

It doesn’t work because it doesn’t take into account the whole school year - it rewards children that can regurgitate stuff on an exam - what about if they had done fabulous work all year but craved under exam pressures - doesn’t mean they aren’t clever, just that they don’t like exams.

Our present system rewards cramming, not 9 months of hard work.

Our present system is so inflexible that when this pandemic came no-one knew what to do - they had been told the LC was the most important exam of their short lives, and then it wasn’t.

My daughter got her LC and is delighted but I still think the system should be changed - what happens next year cos this pandemic isn’t going anywhere

Iodine1 · 12-09-2020 10:52PM

[QUOTE=hamburgham;114583700

Wasn't Ciara Kelly of Newstalk one of the most vociferous media campaigners for the cancellation of the exams. Heard her on the radio today saying she was very worried now about how this standardisation was going to affect her child's CAO choice.[/QUOTE]

Yes, Kelly spent hours going on about "everybody wants rid of the LC". Very one sided show, pushing the liberal agenda and forget the consequences.

Exam should have gone ahead, and it was very doable with the extra time they originally planned for. It was and is the only fair way.

Iscreamkone · 12-09-2020 11:04PM

It wasnt me123 wrote: »

It doesn’t work because it doesn’t take into account the whole school year - it rewards children that can regurgitate stuff on an exam - what about if they had done fabulous work all year but craved under exam pressures - doesn’t mean they aren’t clever, just that they don’t like exams.

Our present system rewards cramming, not 9 months of hard work.

Our present system is so inflexible that when this pandemic came no-one knew what to do - they had been told the LC was the most important exam of their short lives, and then it wasn’t.

My daughter got her LC and is delighted but I still think the system should be changed - what happens next year cos this pandemic isn’t going anywhere

Exam pressure is something that we should not try to eliminate. For all students, good and bad, we need to teach resilience and coping with adversity. Your solution will make them soft

Millionaire only not · 13-09-2020 12:08AM

Iodine1 wrote: »

Yes, Kelly spent hours going on about "everybody wants rid of the LC". Very one sided show, pushing the liberal agenda and forget the consequences.

Exam should have gone ahead, and it was very doable with the extra time they originally planned for. It was and is the only fair way.

There was never going to be a fair way, just can’t be done ! They gave a result if ur not happy sit the exams u weren’t happy with end off .
At end of the day they were only estimates so never going to be fool prove

Daughter not happy with LC results - anyone else?

Comments