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Daughter not happy with LC results - anyone else?

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    #152
    LuckyLloyd
    Registered Users Posts: 36,138 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    IgoPAP wrote: »
    It's difficult to overstate just how catastrophically terrible the decision was to cancel the LC exam.

    And even more so because of the reason they did it - to appease opportunistic students that saw a way to get their exams cancelled and fought for it with all their might.

    “Catastrophic”...seems a completely strange and incorrect description for what has occurred. The most important thing in an education system is progression and the DoE has achieved that in the context of a national emergency that made running exams a logistical nightmare at best.

    Overall:

    - kids didn’t need to sit the exam
    - they got higher grades on average than if they had sat the exam
    - there are more college places to be acquired from their exam results
    - if they don’t like it they can do the exam in November

    “Catastrophic”...how? In the midst of a pandemic a small percentage of edge cases complaining that they were absolutely certain to do better in the exam is very far from a catastrophe.


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    #153
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,121 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    The drama here from some quarters is something else.
    Call the Abbey.


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    #154
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    spurious wrote: »
    Call the Abbey.
    They're closed due to Covid-19.


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    #155
    soso02
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 69 ✭✭soso02


    _Brian wrote: »
    Some students locally aren’t accepting offers but will reapply next year because the points for courses will fall back yet they will retain their higher points giving them a better position.

    This won't happen.

    To level the playing field, the marking scheme will be adjusted to ensure next year's results are in line with the this year's inflated ones.


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    #156
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    soso02 wrote: »
    This won't happen.

    To level the playing field, the marking scheme will be adjusted to ensure next year's results are in line with the this year's inflated ones.

    Said who? Do you work for the SEC?


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    #157
    randylonghorn
    Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 29,509 Mod ✭✭✭✭randylonghorn


    Tbh, that's going to be an ongoing issue.

    How can next year's results be adjusted to align with this year's curve without further disadvantaging candidates from pre-2020 who apply to college next year?

    And if aligned with more normal years, this year's cohort (or the bulk of them anyway) will pretty much be permanently advantaged in terms of college applications.

    I really can't see a way how you can completely level the playing field, there's going to be an ongoing blip of some sort.


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    #158
    bobbyy gee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    it will be worse next year as they mark harder
    a lot of people got A when they should got B
    next year it will be more C


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    #159
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    randylonghorn wrote:
    I really can't see a way how you can completely level the playing field, there's going to be an ongoing blip of some sort.

    Our educational system has never been level anyway, so hopefully this is the beginning of a leveling phase, hopefully we re brave enough to persist with it


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    #160
    Millionaire only not
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Millionaire only not


    In the last few days there absolute no talk about leaving cert - twitter , and here everyone is gone quiet bar the few court cases pending!
    It must be a sign people in general were happy !


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    #161
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Millionaire only not wrote: »
    In the last few days there absolute no talk about leaving cert - twitter , and here everyone is gone quiet bar the few court cases pending!
    It must be a sign people in general were happy !

    could be interpreted a million ways, maybe people are just getting on with it, whos knows


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    #162
    IgoPAP
    Closed Accounts Posts: 343 ✭✭IgoPAP


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    could be interpreted a million ways, maybe people are just getting on with it, whos knows

    Probably because most people have more serious concerns to contend with in the midst of the pandemic than some private school students throwing a hissy fit because for the first time in their lives they didn't get what they wanted.


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    #163
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    IgoPAP wrote: »
    Probably because most people have more serious concerns to contend with in the midst of the pandemic than some private school students throwing a hissy fit because for the first time in their lives they didn't get what they wanted.

    ah to be fair, id say theres plenty of students in both public and private that are disappointed


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    #164
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,121 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    ah to be fair, id say theres plenty of students in both public and private that are disappointed

    Such a difference to every other year.


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    #165
    Quantum Erasure
    Registered Users Posts: 8,178 ✭✭✭Quantum Erasure


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Our educational system has never been level anyway, so hopefully this is the beginning of a leveling phase, hopefully we re brave enough to persist with it

    How do you mean?


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    #166
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    spurious wrote: »
    Such a difference to every other year.

    true, but our system badly needs to change radially, this could be our opportunity to do it


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    #167
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,121 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    true, but our system badly needs to change radially, this could be our opportunity to do it

    Oh I don't disagree. I have long been a fan of the LCA system of assessment - modules, tasks, interviews with an external assessor about what you did (that soon sorts out the wafflers), the two year course split into four and marks towards the terminal marks garnered as early as the first few weeks of 5th year - a great system.

    However, it would cost an enormous amount of money and we know what that means in the Irish education system.


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    #168
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    spurious wrote: »
    Oh I don't disagree. I have long been a fan of the LCA system of assessment - modules, tasks, interviews with an external assessor about what you did (that soon sorts out the wafflers), the two year course split into four and marks towards the terminal marks garnered as early as the first few weeks of 5th year - a great system.

    However, it would cost an enormous amount of money and we know what that means in the Irish education system.

    ah moneys cheap now, best time ever to borrow it, and plough on with changes


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    #169
    rainbowtrout
    Registered Users Posts: 15,381 ✭✭✭✭rainbowtrout


    Millionaire only not wrote: »
    In the last few days there absolute no talk about leaving cert - twitter , and here everyone is gone quiet bar the few court cases pending!
    It must be a sign people in general were happy !

    Most students take one of their offers every year, some go working, some take a year out, some repeat. Despite the omnishambles this year, the exact same will happen.

    Orientation started in NUIG this week, so students didn't get much time to accept and start. There was only 7-8 days between last day of acceptance and first orientation day. Decisions had to be made fast.


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    #170
    joeguevara
    Registered Users Posts: 8,018 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Was chatting to a guy in work today about the leaving and current situation. He said that he would let everyone have their first choice. No worries about space as it will probably be zoom lecture for the year. Then filter it out based on first year results. Made a lot of sense.


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    #171
    bobbyy gee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Was chatting to a guy in work today about the leaving and current situation. He said that he would let everyone have their first choice. No worries about space as it will probably be zoom lecture for the year. Then filter it out based on first year results. Made a lot of sense.
    you don't want students wasting year of their life if they can't keep up


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    #172
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    bobbyy gee wrote:
    you don't want students wasting year of their life if they can't keep up


    Drop out rates are fairly high anyway, in the first couple of months, giving folks a chance to see if they like their preferred option, makes sense


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    #173
    TheBlackPill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭TheBlackPill


    bobbyy gee wrote: »
    you don't want students wasting year of their life if they can't keep up
    Then it is on the student and their parents to supply the reality check. There are huge dropout rates in STEM, particular in the IT because a lot of eejits think a C or D or whatever the modern equivalent is a sufficient standard. Before the points system circa 700 1st year medics would be whittled down to 100 by 2nd year. Unfortunately 3rd level doesnt fail people anymore so may not be able to use the 1st year exams as a surrogate for the the Leaving cert points.


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    #174
    bobbyy gee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    Now she can take test

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/applications-to-sit-2020-leaving-cert-exams-open-on-monday-1.4364921?mode=amp


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    #175
    History Queen
    Registered Users Posts: 3,452 ✭✭✭History Queen


    joeguevara wrote: »
    Was chatting to a guy in work today about the leaving and current situation. He said that he would let everyone have their first choice. No worries about space as it will probably be zoom lecture for the year. Then filter it out based on first year results. Made a lot of sense.

    Not sure how it would work for lecturers and tutors. Big difference in monitering progress and correcting work for 25 students a term vs 150 or whatever number would now get the place.college isnt just lectures.


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    #176
    Iodine1
    Registered Users Posts: 380 ✭✭Iodine1


    s
    joeguevara wrote: »
    Was chatting to a guy in work today about the leaving and current situation. He said that he would let everyone have their first choice. No worries about space as it will probably be zoom lecture for the year. Then filter it out based on first year results. Made a lot of sense.

    This line was being peddled by a Sinn Fein TD and it's more populist nonsense. Where are they going to get all the laboratory space for practicals, language pods, etc etc. Only a minority drop out of most good courses. And in many cases first year doesn't reflect the course, but people mature and out of parents influence start to think for themselves. A better focus on career guidance in transition year is the way to help students choose something suitable I think.


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    #177
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    TheBlackPill wrote: »
    Then it is on the student and their parents to supply the reality check. There are huge dropout rates in STEM, particular in the IT because a lot of eejits think a C or D or whatever the modern equivalent is a sufficient standard. Before the points system circa 700 1st year medics would be whittled down to 100 by 2nd year. Unfortunately 3rd level doesnt fail people anymore so may not be able to use the 1st year exams as a surrogate for the the Leaving cert points.

    maybe we should begin to change our system in its entirety, so that it is much more fairer and provides people with their actual needs


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    #178
    TheBlackPill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭TheBlackPill


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    maybe we should begin to change our system in its entirety, so that it is much more fairer and provides people with their actual needs
    No we should note change the system. The system provides educations and is very fair at the moment. at the moment to the universities you are an exam number with a points tally, gained from an anonymously marked system, where corruption is next to impossible


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    #179
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    TheBlackPill wrote: »
    No we should note change the system. The system provides educations and is very fair at the moment. at the moment to the universities you are an exam number with a points tally, gained from an anonymously marked system, where corruption is next to impossible

    our system is far from fair, it only truly promotes a typical type of brain, and punishes those that do not have this type of mind, it has become one big joint competition, that ultimately fails everyone


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    #180
    TheBlackPill
    Closed Accounts Posts: 321 ✭✭TheBlackPill


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    our system is far from fair, it only truly promotes a typical type of brain, and punishes those that do not have this type of mind, it has become one big joint competition, that ultimately fails everyone

    There are loads of options for the non academic minded. there is LCVP, LCAP, feeding into trades and vocational training. university course and ITs are intellectual courses and the Leaving cert points system with it absolutely transparent, performance based measure(points) is very fair. Incidentally there is a high correlation with dropout rates in STEM courses and lower maths attainment in LC. You are absolutely going to struggle with engineering/science if you have less than a B grade LEaving cert honours maths and no amount of wailing about different abilities, and learning styles and brain types is going to change this


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    #181
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,809 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    TheBlackPill wrote: »
    There are loads of options for the non academic minded. there is LCVP, LCAP, feeding into trades and vocational training. university course and ITs are intellectual courses and the Leaving cert points system with it absolutely transparent, performance based measure(points) is very fair. Incidentally there is a high correlation with dropout rates in STEM courses and lower maths attainment in LC. You are absolutely going to struggle with engineering/science if you have less than a B grade LEaving cert honours maths and no amount of wailing about different abilities, and learning styles and brain types is going to change this

    as you can see, from even your own post above, our educational system largely fails these different types of minds, and methods of thinking, particularly at the earlier stages, our educational system is academically biased, from primary level onwards. if your mind is not academically wired, you may forget about it! you ll probably spend your time chasing your tail within the system, eventually getting fired out, thinking, you re simply too stupid, this is wrong! society needs all sorts of differently wired minds, from academically, to trades, to creative, to this, to that, but our system doesnt facilitate these alternatives very well, if at all. dramatic change is urgently needed, but are we now willing to step into that world!


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