How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

khalessi · 08-09-2020 08:41PM

wily minx wrote: »

Re. Tusla being involved if you go over 20 days absence. Our school has always said to us that this is only for 'unexplained' absences. We have a brief form to fill in that they keep on file - name, date(s) absent and brief reason and were told that as long as they receive them for any absences then it's fine. Now that may vary from school to school but in general it is absenteeism without explanation that Tusla would be concerned with. I wouldn't want parents to be sending their children into school if they felt uncomfortable doing so in these strange circumstances for fear of Tusla.

THis appeared earlier if it helps

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/days-missed-by-schoolchildren-due-to-legitimate-covid-reasons-will-not-be-counted-in-overall-absence-rate-39514376.html

Days missed by schoolchildren due to Covid-related issues will not be counted in the overall number of school absences, Children’s Minister Roderic O’Gorman has confirmed.

Sinn Féin TD Kathleen Funchion said concerned parents had contacted her about being reported to the child and family agency Tusla if their child misses more than 20 days of school.

Last month, the Department of Education said it was required by law to notify Tusla if a student missed more than 20 days.

There are fears rates of absenteeism may be higher in the 2020/2021 academic year as a result of the Covid crisis, with parents keeping students home if they show any symptoms of coronavirus, or where there are concerns about being a close contact of a confirmed case.

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Mr O’Gorman has now confirmed that if a child has to miss school due to any legitimate Covid reason including where there’s a confirmed case or the requirement to quarantine, this will not count towards absenteeism rates.

“The school will note such absences as explained when completing the bi-annual report,” he told the Dáil.

“They’re going to adopt a fair and balanced approach in assessing absences.”

In the context of Covid-19 and the situations which may arise, Tusla said it would "work with schools, students and their parents to support them as required".

Under the Education Welfare Act, schools are legally required to inform the relevant authorities about high absenteeism levels.

“I’m happy to confirm that and we double-checked with the Tusla Education Support Service today and where an absence is explained due to a Covid-related reason, that won’t count towards the 20 days,” minister O’Gorman said.

“I understand parents are nervous, it is such a different environment.”

He also said high-risk students who have to remain at home due to concerns about Covid will not have those days included in their overall absence rate.

Ninthlife · 08-09-2020 09:08PM

Benimar wrote: »

Just got result back. Negative thankfully.

Two happy kids here now.

Great news!!

BonsaiKitten · 08-09-2020 11:30PM

meeeeh wrote: »

One of ours had bereavement in the family, tummy bug and tonsils out so she was absent 18 days before Christmas last year. At 15 days school sent me a reminder that at 20 days they have to inform Tusla. They say that there should be no issues if you can explain the absence but school is obliged to inform Tusla once child is missing 20 days for any reason. We didn’t make it to 20 so I don't know what dealing with Tusla is like but 20 absence will be reported.

I wouldn't be worried about it. Tusla are overstretched in normal times and they have to focus on the worst cases. Now that's just from my own experience as a teacher but I can't imagine they'll be chasing up all the kids who miss 20+ this year unless staff numbers have shot up.

delly · 09-09-2020 12:55AM

As a parent of kid with an underlying condition, who broke the 20 day mark last year, please do not give any thought of Tusla being an issue. In the best of times getting the automatic mail from your school to confirm they are referring you is really a box ticking exercise. Tusla is there to investigate the mass absences, 60 or 70 days plus. You have kids who just don't go and the parents don't care, or can't control them. They are where the focus goes, but seeing the name Tusla on a mail can get people worried.

s1ippy · 09-09-2020 02:53AM

I forgot to post this update from the kind individual who complies the data on twitter.

Cases are really starting to rack up.

https://twitter.com/3mm4l0u1s3?s=09

Oranage2 · 09-09-2020 04:30AM

s1ippy wrote: »

I forgot to post this update from the kind individual who complies the data on twitter.

Cases are really starting to rack up.

https://twitter.com/3mm4l0u1s3?s=09

Excellent graph, scary to think the schools in the south have only been opened a week.

The approach was all wrong, there was no meaningful guidelines, and by the end of the month we'll have many schools closed and the politicians will say they tried. No they didn't, trying would be having a plan in place, trying is not just physically opening the school doors and hoping for the best. We knew there would be cases, we knew classes would be sent home so have the educational department worked on an online curriculum for these classes, of course not, we've no foresight, just well paid civil servants doing a lazy job and getting their giant paychecks.

09-09-2020 08:10AM

s1ippy wrote: »

I forgot to post this update from the kind individual who complies the data on twitter.

Cases are really starting to rack up.

https://twitter.com/3mm4l0u1s3?s=09

Majority in a different jurisdiction

Bobtheman · 09-09-2020 08:16AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Excellent graph, scary to think the schools in the south have only been opened a week.

The approach was all wrong, there was no meaningful guidelines, and by the end of the month we'll have many schools closed and the politicians will say they tried. No they didn't, trying would be having a plan in place, trying is not just physically opening the school doors and hoping for the best. We knew there would be cases, we knew classes would be sent home so have the educational department worked on an online curriculum for these classes, of course not, we've no foresight, just well paid civil servants doing a lazy job and getting their giant paychecks.

I agree with you on appalling lack of planning for online teaching. But I don't agree entire schools will be shut. That has not happened yet and I don't see it happening soon or ever.

caveat emptor · 09-09-2020 08:30AM

Cluster in Berlin school.

https://twitter.com/DrZoeHyde/status/1303588821376757761?s=20

average_runner · 09-09-2020 09:25AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Excellent graph, scary to think the schools in the south have only been opened a week.

The approach was all wrong, there was no meaningful guidelines, and by the end of the month we'll have many schools closed and the politicians will say they tried. No they didn't, trying would be having a plan in place, trying is not just physically opening the school doors and hoping for the best. We knew there would be cases, we knew classes would be sent home so have the educational department worked on an online curriculum for these classes, of course not, we've no foresight, just well paid civil servants doing a lazy job and getting their giant paychecks.

On what basis. No kid in the south has passed it on to another kid in the class. All pods so far tested are negative. That list is not a 100% correct either.

Boggles · 09-09-2020 09:33AM

average_runner wrote: »

No kid in the south has passed it on to another kid in the class. All pods so far tested are negative.

Link?

ax530 · 09-09-2020 09:34AM

many schools on that list in NI, different system there.
Self administer test & dont always get option for a test. Knew someone whos child had high temp & throat over weekend rang Dr Monday morning told check temp now when they did it was not high. Advice that child should be at school bring them back asap
Another who showing lots symptoms tummy bug, cough, temp went for test the parent knowign well could not get the swab done correctly it came back negative back to school one child home early again next day due to upset tummy.
I think the testing system working better here to be honest which should result in less classes impacted if a child in school does get the virus.

average_runner · 09-09-2020 09:37AM

Boggles wrote: »

Link?

It was said in an interview and the principal at our school also confirmed it with the HSE as we had two separate cases and didn't spread, even where kids are almost on top of each other.

If the spread had happen it be in the news.

Boggles · 09-09-2020 09:38AM

average_runner wrote: »

It was said in an interview and the principal at our school also confirmed it with the HSE as we had two separate cases and didn't spread, even where kids are almost on top of each other.

If the spread had happen it be in the news.

What interview, with who?

Should be easy enough find.

average_runner · 09-09-2020 09:42AM

Boggles wrote: »

What interview, with who?

Should be easy enough find.

One of the interviews on rte, go through them. Trust me if the case had spread the negative people would highlight it very quickly.

We are great for bad news and frightening people

average_runner · 09-09-2020 09:44AM

s1ippy wrote: »

I forgot to post this update from the kind individual who complies the data on twitter.

Cases are really starting to rack up.

https://twitter.com/3mm4l0u1s3?s=09

So say 50 positive cases out of how many kids and teachers in a school? Is that even .002% of the the number?

Boggles · 09-09-2020 09:44AM

average_runner wrote: »

One of the interviews on rte, go through them.

:pac:

average_runner · 09-09-2020 09:46AM

Boggles wrote: »

:pac:

Have you heard different?

s1ippy · 09-09-2020 09:54AM

Because of patient confidentiality, it's not possible to know the route of transmission or how the individuals in the school came to be infected - inside or out.

Until some sort of story breaks or a school does a press conference (which is not allowed as per the HSE guidelines) then there is no way of finding out if the transmission is between students and staff etc.

Also no information will be given to us about school closures so this information on Twitter is a handy insight. You can take from it what you will. The girl compiling it was being very meticulous about her fact-checking but I think she has been banned from the group on Facebook that was sharing the information because they didn't want it publicised.

I hope there are other sources because it really is in the public interest to know. In Germany they have massive outbreaks occuring throughout the country and there is no way for the public to know if their area is badly affected. I really don't want to see a situation going into Nov/Dec where we have absolutely no idea what the scope and scale of the impact is. That is a worst case scenario.

As an educational professional I would have thought this information would be valuable to you but apparently you'd rather be blinkered and fed rubbish by your school management. You're lucky you can take what you're told at face value, I'd much rather be that way.

Boggles · 09-09-2020 09:57AM

average_runner wrote: »

Have you heard different?

I'm not the one making claims without backing them up.

Make a claim and back it up. It's primarily how your opinions will get taking seriously.

It's just good manners above everything else.

See I have now decided, no such interview exists and you have made it up, that would be accurate, wouldn't it? Be honest.

DangerScouse · 09-09-2020 10:05AM

average_runner wrote: »

One of the interviews on rte, go through them. Trust me if the case had spread the negative people would highlight it very quickly.

We are great for bad news and frightening people

Lol

meeeeh · 09-09-2020 10:06AM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Excellent graph, scary to think the schools in the south have only been opened a week.

The approach was all wrong, there was no meaningful guidelines, and by the end of the month we'll have many schools closed and the politicians will say they tried. No they didn't, trying would be having a plan in place, trying is not just physically opening the school doors and hoping for the best. We knew there would be cases, we knew classes would be sent home so have the educational department worked on an online curriculum for these classes, of course not, we've no foresight, just well paid civil servants doing a lazy job and getting their giant paychecks.

Is it really such an excellent graph? The information is where the case appeared so someone tested positive. There is no information about clusters so there is absolutely no information if school measures work or not. This is great tool if you want to track where in the country Covid cases are happening but absolutely no info on transmissions in schools. Not to mention it's completely illogical to criticize ROI public sector for infections in the North.

09-09-2020 10:09AM

average_runner wrote: »

So say 50 positive cases out of how many kids and teachers in a school? Is that even .002% of the the number?

They are only back a week, things are only just starting to heat up. It will be boiling over in 2 weeks time.

PCros · 09-09-2020 10:11AM

So the girl on Twitter who provided the table a few posts back was kicked out of the Facebook group. She rightly asked about some of the discrepancies in the HSE letters that were being posted and the admin had a conversation with her in the comments and then deleted all the posts.

They then posted up stating that nobody can share the information outside of the group…even though they are on Facebook. :pac:

I’d be taking that Facebook page with a pinch of salt and I would actually rely on the girl on Twitter as she seems to be fair and meticulous.

https://twitter.com/3mm4l0u1s3/status/1303434845054435328

average_runner · 09-09-2020 10:12AM

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

They are only back a week, things are only just starting to heat up. It will be boiling over in 2 weeks time.

We might be close to 5% in 2 weeks, still non existent number.

This number won't increase if people that have the virus actually behave. Too much to ask for

average_runner · 09-09-2020 10:15AM

meeeeh wrote: »

Is it really such an excellent graph? The information is where the case appeared so someone tested positive. There is no information about clusters so there is absolutely no information if school measures work or not. This is great tool if you want to track where in the country Covid cases are happening but absolutely no info on transmissions in schools. Not to mention it's completely illogical to criticize ROI public sector for infections in the North.

No cluster among kids in schools, there was one with teachers.

meeeeh · 09-09-2020 10:17AM

PCros wrote: »

So the girl on Twitter who provided the table a few posts back was kicked out of the Facebook group. She rightly asked about some of the discrepancies in the HSE letters that were being posted and the admin had a conversation with her in the comments and then deleted all the posts.

They then posted up stating that nobody can share the information outside of the group…even though they are on Facebook. :pac:

I’d be taking that Facebook page with a pinch of salt and I would actually rely on the girl on Twitter as she seems to be fair and meticulous.

https://twitter.com/3mm4l0u1s3/status/1303434845054435328

Social media warriors are entertaining. They will now have a spat among themselves about who can see or share unvalidated data. It just proves the stupidity of trusting anything people post on social media without clear information about source of data.

JDD · 09-09-2020 10:23AM

average_runner wrote: »

So say 50 positive cases out of how many kids and teachers in a school? Is that even .002% of the the number?

Now, this is much more the numbers I was expecting to come out this week. So 24 children have tested positive in the first week after schools opening.

I'm not paying too much attention to positive cases in the North - I know the virus doesn't see the border - but their infection levels are as a result of their policies, our infection levels are as a result of our policies. And we only have control over our own policies.

So, 24 cases is about 2.5% of the overall positive tests from 1 September to 7 September. According to the published statistics, about 2% of the positive cases to date have been in 0-15 year olds. Adding in 16-18 year olds that would be in secondary, it a 2.5% positive rate is in line with the number of infections in that age category to date, even when the schools were closed.

The questions that we have, as of yet, no answers to are:
- Are children less likely to catch coronavirus? Children aged 5-17 make up 20% of our population, and are yet only 2.5% of infections. Does that mean they are less likely to catch it at all, or catch it at the same rate as adults but just do not show symptoms?
- Are children less likely to spread coronavirus? Obviously if they are less likely to catch it, then they are less likely to spread it. However, if there are lots of asymptomatic children, how likely is it that they will spread it?

From memory what NPHET have said regarding their experience in tracing contacts of children who have tested positive, there is far less onward transmission (I don't believe they broke it down into symptomatic/asymptomatic children) than there is in adults. Whether that is because children we generally meeting less people between March-August than their parents were, or whether it is because adults and children are less likely to catch it from a child again remains to be seen.

But just to be clear, the numbers of infections in schools so far is no cause for alarm (apart from the general anxiety about the overall increasing numbers), as the percentages tie in with the number of infections pre-opening. It will be the number of infections over the next 2-4 weeks that will really matter.

caveat emptor · 09-09-2020 10:29AM

meeeeh wrote: »

Social media warriors are entertaining. They will now have a spat among themselves about who can see or share unvalidated data. It just proves the stupidity of trusting anything people post on social media without clear information about source of data.

Source?

Boggles · 09-09-2020 10:33AM

JDD wrote: »

The questions that we have, as of yet, no answers to are:
- Are children less likely to catch coronavirus? Children aged 5-17 make up 20% of our population, and are yet only 2.5% of infections.

It's a false figure. Children were not being tested.

What would be the point? if a parent gets it the whole family have to isolate anyway. A test isn't pleasant for an adult, you wouldn't be too keen to put a child through it if you didn't have to.

In the past 10 days there has been a 16% increase in infections in children under the age 14, there was a similar percentage increase announced in the states yesterday.

The report, which was released in early September, said that a total of 513,415 children have tested positive for the virus since the onset of the pandemic. It also noted that roughly 70,000 coronavirus cases among children were reported between Aug. 20 and Sept. 3, representing a 16 percent increase in child cases from the previous two weeks

Why?

Because we have to test them now, the virus hasn't just decided to infect children now.

The narrative being peddled that children don't really get the virus was always horseshít.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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