Covid 19 Part XXII-30,360 in ROI(1,781 deaths) 8,035 in NI (568 deaths)(10/09)Read OP

05-09-2020 11:04AM

Widdensushi wrote: »

Michael really messed up so, he should have given 160billion at least.

It’s ok, I get you don’t understand. Having too much on your books impacts the ability to raise finance on the open market, so you absorb what you can

05-09-2020 11:06AM

Widdensushi wrote: »

People in the southern part of Italy in particular had no way of getting support when the lockdown started as they didn't exist in the tax system, it was seen as normal but they had difficulty in dealing with it.

And yet Italians pay almost double the tax we do as portion of gdp. GDP includes black market activity by the way

Widdensushi · 05-09-2020 11:07AM

Deleted User wrote: »

It’s ok, I get you don’t understand. Having too much on your books impacts the ability to raise finance on the open market, so you absorb what you can

I do understand, I was highlighting how outrageous it was that you are trying to say our commitment for children / grandchildren etc to have to repay 16billion doesn't have consequences.

Widdensushi · 05-09-2020 11:11AM

Deleted User wrote: »

And yet Italians pay almost double the tax we do as portion of gdp. GDP includes black market activity by the way

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EYEWITNESS
Coronavirus: Italy becoming impatient with lockdown - and social unrest is brewing
Police descend on a supermarket after reports people have stolen food to feed themselves, as patience turns to desperation.
By Sally Lockwood, Sky News correspondent, in Rome

Sunday 29 March 2020 05:56, UK
COVID-19CORONAVIRUSITALY

Social unrest could be Italy's new blight

Why you can trust Sky News
Videos have emerged of desperate people in Italy begging for help because they have run out of money and food.

Well into its third week of the coronavirus lockdown, Italy is still seeing many hundreds of people dying each day.

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Progress in containing the COVID-19 spread is slow, hope and patience are fading and the economic cost is becoming ever more acute.

Still from Sally Lockwood VT on Italy lockdown unrest
Image:
Deaths in Italy are the highest in Europe
Still from Sally Lockwood VT on Italy lockdown unrest
Image:
A desperate man was filmed shouting at a police officer
The strain is showing in the south of the country where one man in Apulia reportedly called police after the bank closed and they couldn't withdraw his mother's pension - their only income.

Footage shows him shouting at officers, telling them the family has no money, his mother begging them to go to their home so she could show them they have no food. It's hard to watch. It's what desperation looks like.

Advertisement
Another video has been shared around the country showing a father with his young daughter addressing the Italian prime minister, saying: "It's already 15-20 days that we've been inside and we're at our limit."

He gestures to his little girl who is eating a piece of bread and says: "Like my daughter, other children in a few days won't be able to eat this bit of bread. Rest assured, you will regret this because we're going to have a revolution."

Still from Sally Lockwood VT on Italy lockdown unrest
Image:
'We're at our limit,' the father said
Why Germany has such a low COVID-19 death rate
Why Germany has such a low COVID-19 death rate
Images have also emerged of police descending on supermarkets in Palermo in Sicily after reports people have started stealing to feed themselves. And groups have been set up in the last few days on social media to organise raids of supermarkets.

Sky News was sent a video message of a man in Sicily with a gun even offering to kill.

The mayor of Palermo told Sky News crime gangs are exploiting people's hardship and inciting violence - he warns a social emergency is next.

Still from Sally Lockwood VT on Italy lockdown unrest
Image:
Italy has been in lockdown now for three weeks
"Discomfort and malaise are growing and we are recording worrying reports of protest and anger that is being exploited by criminals who want to destabilise the system," said Leoluca Orlando.

"The more time passes, the more resources are exhausted. The few savings people have are running out. This tells us socio-economic issues will erupt."

Italy's Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte has made €25bn available to support families and businesses affected by lockdown. Some say they're still waiting for that help.

Others don't qualify because their employment is not officially recorded. Italy has a big cash economy of unregistered workers - the large majority of this in the south.

:: Listen to the Daily podcast on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Spreaker

The further south you go, the higher the level of deprivation and the higher the unemployment.

While the virus hasn't reached the same crisis levels in southern Italy, hunger and hardship threaten to be even bigger problems.

Italy is ahead of other countries in this outbreak and unrest threatens to be the next chapter in this crisis.

As the country struggles to bring the virus spread under control, the government has extended lockdown from 3 April with no new deadline.

Lockdown is the only solution to save lives.

But in southern Italy, for many, it feels like it's threatening their very survival.

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05-09-2020 11:21AM

Widdensushi wrote: »

I do understand, I was highlighting how outrageous it was that you are trying to say our commitment for children / grandchildren etc to have to repay 16billion doesn't have consequences.

We will never have no dept, and in fact our debt will always rise. No saying things will be as easy as if there had never been a pandemic. If we don’t borrow there will be no functioning economy/ society for our children and grandchildren

timsey tiger · 05-09-2020 11:21AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Tax to gdp ratio in Italy is 7th highest in oecd. Ireland is 34th. When you are so wrong on that well I just don’t know

How do we compare using gnp?

05-09-2020 11:24AM

timsey tiger wrote: »

How do we compare using gnp?

If we compare Ireland’s tax to gnp to Italy’s tax to gdp, it’s still about 70% higher

05-09-2020 11:25AM

Widdensushi wrote: »

Skip to content
sky news logo
Watch Live
HomeUKWorldPoliticsUSClimateScience & TechBusinessEnts & ArtsTravelOffbeat
More

EYEWITNESS
Coronavirus: Italy becoming impatient with lockdown - and social unrest is brewing
Police descend on a supermarket after reports people have stolen food to feed themselves, as patience turns to desperation.
By Sally Lockwood, Sky News correspondent, in Rome

Sunday 29 March 2020 05:56, UK
COVID-19CORONAVIRUSITALY

Social unrest could be Italy's new blight

Why you can trust Sky News
Videos have emerged of desperate people in Italy begging for help because they have run out of money and food.

Well into its third week of the coronavirus lockdown, Italy is still seeing many hundreds of people dying each day.

Sponsored link
What's the best savings option for my money right now?
What's the best savings option for my money right now?
Raisin Bank
Recommended by
Progress in containing the COVID-19 spread is slow, hope and patience are fading and the economic cost is becoming ever more acute.

Still from Sally Lockwood VT on Italy lockdown unrest
Image:
Deaths in Italy are the highest in Europe
Still from Sally Lockwood VT on Italy lockdown unrest
Image:
A desperate man was filmed shouting at a police officer
The strain is showing in the south of the country where one man in Apulia reportedly called police after the bank closed and they couldn't withdraw his mother's pension - their only income.

Footage shows him shouting at officers, telling them the family has no money, his mother begging them to go to their home so she could show them they have no food. It's hard to watch. It's what desperation looks like.

Advertisement
Another video has been shared around the country showing a father with his young daughter addressing the Italian prime minister, saying: "It's already 15-20 days that we've been inside and we're at our limit."

He gestures to his little girl who is eating a piece of bread and says: "Like my daughter, other children in a few days won't be able to eat this bit of bread. Rest assured, you will regret this because we're going to have a revolution."

Still from Sally Lockwood VT on Italy lockdown unrest
Image:
'We're at our limit,' the father said
Why Germany has such a low COVID-19 death rate
Why Germany has such a low COVID-19 death rate
Images have also emerged of police descending on supermarkets in Palermo in Sicily after reports people have started stealing to feed themselves. And groups have been set up in the last few days on social media to organise raids of supermarkets.

Sky News was sent a video message of a man in Sicily with a gun even offering to kill.

The mayor of Palermo told Sky News crime gangs are exploiting people's hardship and inciting violence - he warns a social emergency is next.

Still from Sally Lockwood VT on Italy lockdown unrest
Image:
Italy has been in lockdown now for three weeks
"Discomfort and malaise are growing and we are recording worrying reports of protest and anger that is being exploited by criminals who want to destabilise the system," said Leoluca Orlando.

"The more time passes, the more resources are exhausted. The few savings people have are running out. This tells us socio-economic issues will erupt."

Italy's Prime Minister Giuseppe Conte has made €25bn available to support families and businesses affected by lockdown. Some say they're still waiting for that help.

Others don't qualify because their employment is not officially recorded. Italy has a big cash economy of unregistered workers - the large majority of this in the south.

:: Listen to the Daily podcast on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Spotify, Spreaker

The further south you go, the higher the level of deprivation and the higher the unemployment.

While the virus hasn't reached the same crisis levels in southern Italy, hunger and hardship threaten to be even bigger problems.

Italy is ahead of other countries in this outbreak and unrest threatens to be the next chapter in this crisis.

As the country struggles to bring the virus spread under control, the government has extended lockdown from 3 April with no new deadline.

Lockdown is the only solution to save lives.

But in southern Italy, for many, it feels like it's threatening their very survival.

Sponsored Links
$60 "TV Fix" Takes Ireland By Storm
$60 "TV Fix" Takes Ireland By Storm
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Chiropractors Baffled: Simple Stretch Relieves Years of Back Pain (Watch)
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www.your-health-today.com
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Top Solicitors in Bantry in 2020
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Solicitors | Sponsored Listings
If you're over 40 - this game is a must!
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Vikings
The Must-Play City Building Game of the Year
The Must-Play City Building Game of the Year
Forge Of Empires
Back To School Kids Sanitiser
Back To School Kids Sanitiser
TheMobilityShop.ie
Neuropathy & Nerve Damage? You Should Do This Immediately (Watch)
Neuropathy & Nerve Damage? You Should Do This Immediately (Watch)
Nerve Control
If You Have An Enlarged Prostate Do This Immediately (Video)
If You Have An Enlarged Prostate Do This Immediately (Video)
www.your-health-today.com
Can't stand lime either? This is easy to solve with the EcoBooster!
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EcoBooster - Water Softener
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That’s economic inequality within Italy, not the overall Italian economic picture

bb1234567 · 05-09-2020 11:40AM

Spain at almost 10% positivity rate for testing, they are on the cusp of a very large second epidemic. Wonder if they will go back into another lockdown.

Plumbthedepths · 05-09-2020 12:00PM

Good to see that all positive tests may not indicate present infection rather detecting traces of 'dead' virus.

http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-tests-may-be-picking-up-traces-of-dead-virus-12064151

SPDUB · 05-09-2020 12:11PM

Goldengirl wrote: »

The Skerries cluster spreading ?

Not connected to it

GooglePlus · 05-09-2020 12:16PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And yet Italians pay almost double the tax we do as portion of gdp. GDP includes black market activity by the way

GDP is a poor and outdated economic indicator.

Plumbthedepths · 05-09-2020 12:18PM

GooglePlus wrote: »

GDP is a poor and outdated economic indicator.

It got us the label of ' Leprechaun economics' not so long ago.

Onesea · 05-09-2020 12:21PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Spain at almost 10% positivity rate for testing, they are on the cusp of a very large second epidemic. Wonder if they will go back into another lockdown.

When should we expect to see packed icus in Spain soon?

GooglePlus · 05-09-2020 12:25PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It got us the label of ' Leprechaun economics' not so long ago.

Exactly, it doesn't provide a picture of reality at all.

coastwatch · 05-09-2020 12:27PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Good to see that all positive tests may not indicate present infection rather detecting traces of 'dead' virus.

http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-tests-may-be-picking-up-traces-of-dead-virus-12064151

It's another resson why the daily new positive case reports are becoming less important.

majcos · 05-09-2020 12:48PM

Positive cases reported by to HPSC should represent newly diagnosed cases so still count towards total number of cases and if there is a significant rise, is still a concern. There were/are issues where patients had more than one positive test and were double counted and hence we saw subsequent denotifications of cases when data was validated. This is less of an issue now.

Where the patient is in the course of disease is not always immediately apparent when positive result is notified to HPSC. Could be presymptomatic if picked up at very early stage, for example on contact tracing, or asymptomatic or already recovered.

However, regardless of stage of patient at time of diagnosis, a rise in positive numbers raises a concern that clinical cases are rising as seen by the increase in hospitalizations over the last month. There is nowhere near the number of hospitalised cases that there were seen in March/April but there is an increase from the nadir seen in June/July.

Daily numbers not as much a concern as weekly numbers. The 14 day cumulative incidence rate reported by European CDC shows incidence has leveled again over the last 10 to 12 days at approximately 30 per 100,000. I think it is 12th highest in Europe at the moment. It was 4-5 per 100,000 in mid July but at least it seems to have stabilised over the last two weeks.

is_that_so · 05-09-2020 01:02PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Good to see that all positive tests may not indicate present infection rather detecting traces of 'dead' virus.

http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-tests-may-be-picking-up-traces-of-dead-virus-12064151

De Gascun mentioned this back in June.

The problem with a mass testing approach as the prevalence becomes very low is that we may start to generate incorrect false positive results. We need to be careful about how we use the testing capacity we have.

https://www.oireachtas.ie/ga/debates/debate/special_committee_on_covid-19_response/2020-06-09/3/

bb1234567 · 05-09-2020 01:07PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Good to see that all positive tests may not indicate present infection rather detecting traces of 'dead' virus.

http://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-tests-may-be-picking-up-traces-of-dead-virus-12064151

Interesting, I wonder if that might be one of the other reasons why there is such a low death rate recently in Europe. Along with the other factors such as better health treatment, elderly cocooning etc.

bb1234567 · 05-09-2020 01:08PM

Onesea wrote: »

When should we expect to see packed icus in Spain soon?

Will be over 1000 peple in Spain in ICU with COVID by this evening, significant number no matter what way you look at it.

majcos · 05-09-2020 01:12PM

Yes. Not a new idea about viral remnants. There was a paper in Nature as early as April.

It became a particular logistical issue in hospitals when they were testing recovered patients prior to discharge back to nursing homes and residential units, etc. Even though clinically better were still testing positive in some cases for very long periods so could not be discharged and therefore remained in hospital in isolation with staff using full PPE for every encounter.

Nature paper suggested that even though PCR positive, viral culture could not ‘grow’ virus beyond Day 8 so unlikely for people to be infectious beyond first week or two despite still testing positive on swabs. Now largely accepted in healthcare environment that if clinically better, and over two weeks that patients can be deemed non infectious so can be discharged back to other facilities and staff can revert to basic PPE rather than full protective wear.

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-020-2196-x?fbclid=IwAR0dxTczGh6zOK3e0mvBEtNPOIdO5rK9na6RNpd2LPS5cCorbiViL8a9XlU

ACitizenErased · 05-09-2020 01:13PM

Two new testing centres opened in Dublin today. Interesting that they’re expanding up there.

stephenjmcd · 05-09-2020 01:18PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Two new testing centres opened in Dublin today. Interesting that they’re expanding up there.

Makes sense. They were down to a handful. Lots in South Dublin were being sent to Wicklow Town.

Makes sense to bring Croke Park back into use. Was a silly decision to close it and merge in Santry.

Only going to increase capacity by about 200 appearently

majcos · 05-09-2020 01:18PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Will be over 1000 peple in Spain in ICU with COVID by this evening, significant number no matter what way you look at it.

The 14 day cumulative incidence rate per 100,000 in Spain is 218.3 - far higher than most other European countries.

Ireland 29.8
UK 25.7
Germany 17.9
France 98.2
Sweden 21.6
Finland 6.0

Flowergirl201 · 05-09-2020 01:36PM

ACitizenErased wrote: »

Two new testing centres opened in Dublin today. Interesting that they’re expanding up there.

Did they close the 1 in Tallaght stadium?

Ficheall · 05-09-2020 01:36PM

How in the name of Jesus are you supposed to get a table in here? :mad::o

Anyway - reported deaths today as percentage of reported cases for top countries in world and Europe, allowing for varying lags in case to death. (All numbers 7 day averages taken from Worldometers).
Cases are being caught earlier than they were at the start of the pandemic, so I suspect the lag is greater than the couple of weeks initially suggested. Poorer countries are probably treating less successfully, but also catching fewer cases, so who knows.
I still suspect the 0.65% fatality rate is an underestimate. Ireland looks good though. Hopefully we keep it up

Edit: Bah. Apologies for typo. Not remaking png.

05-09-2020 01:39PM

GooglePlus wrote: »

GDP is a poor and outdated economic indicator.

Already addressed. The initial point was we were funding so Italians did not have to pay tax, yet even when corrected for GNP Italians pay 70% more tax than we do

majcos · 05-09-2020 01:39PM

bb1234567 wrote: »

Interesting, I wonder if that might be one of the other reasons why there is such a low death rate recently in Europe. Along with the other factors such as better health treatment, elderly cocooning etc.

Reason for lower death rate is multifactorial.

Hospitals and ICUs not overwhelmed so doctors and other clinical staff have more time to treat each individual patient.

Hospitals have learned more about how Covid-19 behaves and recognition of things like the thrombotic complications has led to widespread use of prophylactic anticoagulants which has reduced the risks.

Testing is more widespread so picking up milder and asymptomatic cases which were not sent for testing in early phase. This dilutes the case fatality rate. The sickest and those most likely to end up dying get diagnosed the earliest, so outcomes always look worse initially in any new disease. Less sick not recognised or diagnosed in March/April/May as never made it as far as being tested but those of course those were also far less likely to die.

Cases are now in a younger population. Most older people I know are still maintaining their own form of lockdown and are being more cautious. Less vulnerable people catching disease are not completely immune to having a serious illness but are far less likely to do so.

An outbreak in Craigavon Hospital in the haematology ward has resulted in two deaths in the last two days which shows it is still a deadly disease especially for anyone with a vulnerability.

05-09-2020 01:42PM

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

It got us the label of ' Leprechaun economics' not so long ago.

It’s the tax take from multinationals, as well as the wages and taxes laid by employees of these multinationals, which people claim are “leprechaun economics”, that is keeping the country afloat

Plumbthedepths · 05-09-2020 01:49PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

It’s the tax take from multinationals, as well as the wages and taxes laid by employees of these multinationals, which people claim are “leprechaun economics”, that is keeping the country afloat

This is what I was referring too.

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/leprechaun-economics-irelands-26pc-growth-spurt-laughed-off-as-farcical-34879232.html

Covid 19 Part XXII-30,360 in ROI(1,781 deaths) 8,035 in NI (568 deaths)(10/09)Read OP

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