Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

GocRh · 01-09-2020 09:45AM

Good to see that the media is slowly, but finally, questioning the Government Covid strategy and our inadequate test infrastructure:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/could-ireland-become-the-wayward-child-of-europe-on-covid-response-1.4343216

"The latest figures from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC) show just how poorly Ireland is doing compared to most of our EU neighbours.

The UK was once Europe’s “bad boy” for tackling the virus, thanks to a faltering start, multiple U-turns and occasional injections of superfluous ideology. Sweden, meanwhile, was the continent’s “wayward child”, determined to go its own way by resisting lockdown and the closure of most schools and businesses.

Both countries suffered unnecessarily high numbers of deaths and were the subject of trenchant criticism over the months of peak pandemic. Now, in their own separate ways, they have managed to up their game, and trends in terms of deaths and cases are generally positive.

Ireland, meanwhile, having achieved one of the lowest incidences in Europe in mid-summer, is now struggling to contain fresh outbreaks. So much so that the latest ECDC figures show our figures are higher than both the UK’s and Sweden’s. (The death rate in Sweden is 60 per cent higher than in Ireland.)

The incidence of the virus in Ireland is also higher than in Italy, Germany, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Greece, Finland, Hungary, Slovakia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Estonia, Iceland, Cyprus and Latvia."

dalyboy · 01-09-2020 09:55AM

GocRh wrote: »

Good to see that the media is slowly, but finally, questioning the Government Covid strategy and our inadequate test infrastructure:

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/could-ireland-become-the-wayward-child-of-europe-on-covid-response-1.4343216

"The latest figures from the European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control (ECDC) show just how poorly Ireland is doing compared to most of our EU neighbours.

The UK was once Europe’s “bad boy” for tackling the virus, thanks to a faltering start, multiple U-turns and occasional injections of superfluous ideology. Sweden, meanwhile, was the continent’s “wayward child”, determined to go its own way by resisting lockdown and the closure of most schools and businesses.

Both countries suffered unnecessarily high numbers of deaths and were the subject of trenchant criticism over the months of peak pandemic. Now, in their own separate ways, they have managed to up their game, and trends in terms of deaths and cases are generally positive.

Ireland, meanwhile, having achieved one of the lowest incidences in Europe in mid-summer, is now struggling to contain fresh outbreaks. So much so that the latest ECDC figures show our figures are higher than both the UK’s and Sweden’s. (The death rate in Sweden is 60 per cent higher than in Ireland.)

The incidence of the virus in Ireland is also higher than in Italy, Germany, Poland, Denmark, Norway, Greece, Finland, Hungary, Slovakia, Lithuania, Slovenia, Estonia, Iceland, Cyprus and Latvia."

Aha , it’s our new green list

Assetbacked · 01-09-2020 10:15AM

John O.Groats wrote: »

You are an arrogant ****ing arsehole who crows about putting people who don`t agree with your blinkered opinions " back in their box". ****ing pathetic.

I have posted links to the official data numerous times as it is clear people like you prefer to just read the media articles and listen to the dull and negative tones of the NPHET announcements each day, which are consistently negative despite the fantastic deaths data the past few months. That poster constantly posts little adjectives with his comments on drinks and thinks being anti-restrictions is just about pints. It is total ignorance to reduce it to that and we in this thread have been consistent for months in our position. We can't be reduced to tinfoil hat wearing, alcoholics unfortunately for that poster and you too it seems hence your OTT anger and personal attack.

The health service in Ireland is one of the worst in Europe, we have inept FF politicians as the minister for health and as taoiseach. This is reflected in our painful easing of restrictions. That is what the issue here is. For the record, 2020 has been a great year for me personally, particularly in the financial sense, so it should not make sense for me to be so anti-restrictions but I feel like I can take a step back and just read around the articles to just look at the data and facts so I am unbiased.

Dionaibh · 01-09-2020 10:16AM

pm1977x wrote: »

Don’t remember any credible sources or govt people suggesting a vaccine was at all possible this year, doesn’t add up.

The clamour to find dark motives is odd, someone earlier suggesting we were 1 step away from fascism, we’re no longer ‘free’ because we have to wear masks occasionally? we’ve had Bill Gates mentioned too, really bizarre one that, perhaps there’s no dark force at work, perhaps they’re just a bit crap at governing (same as always) and having to wing it in unprecedented times is exacerbating the mistakes. We can all pick holes in the govt strategy, fish in a barrel stuff at times, particularly recently.

I’ll be accused of swallowing the media spin or drinking the kool aid, but I’ve given it a lot of thought and have yet to see any remotely plausible theory put forward that make sense of the “sinister motives” theory and what’s in it for “them”. Erosion of our civil liberties...and then what, down the mines in our “muzzles”? People shouting about financial ruin, yeah, of course, clearly, it’s not some oracle at Delphi prophecy, there will be a large bill for it all, I’ve seen plenty of recessions, too many over the decades, but life will continue, many of us will suffer, as we have before (unless you’re young enough not to have lived through a couple of recessions, [and many on here do seem very immature,] then lucky you!) but I don’t think there’s some global puppeteers rubbing their hands with glee, it just happened and they’re all bumbling their way through it, some better than others.

The UN organised a virtual concert in August and one of the songs that was sung during the concert contains the following lyrics:

"Around the world we’re closing borders, COVID-19 on the rise
A new world order behind closed doors, the storm will pass, we will survive
We will rise, we will rise again, our isles will rise again
We will rise, we will rise again, our world will rise again”

What does "a new world order behind closed doors" mean?

GocRh · 01-09-2020 10:53AM

dalyboy wrote: »

Aha , it’s our new green list

If only there was any logic and predictability to the Government policy towards travel... Green list was due to be reviewed in late August, but Government decided not to change it so as 'not to confuse travelers'.

Irish Times, 19th of August:
"However, the Cabinet decided to defer the removal of Greece and any other changes to the green list over fears that it would present a confusing message to the public."

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/cabinet-deferred-removal-of-greece-from-travel-green-list-1.4334095

01-09-2020 12:12PM

dalyboy wrote: »

Can you pick any holes in this one for me ?

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=PzKkJZ8xNTE

Please tell me you understand the implications this abomination of an idea will have on every citizen in Ireland for generations to come.
When you see something as blatant (and being endorsed by Luke O’Neill I’ll have you know) as this do you see why people would be asking questions as to exactly what in the hell is going on here.

I agree with you and also, since when did you have to give details on your health so easily? where's the doctor patient confidentiality now. Who's to say there's not more to taking a swap outside a doctor setting. How do you know your DNA, Blood type and even health status is not being harvested and sold to insurance companies etc. Do you surrender legal protection with a the hasty swipe of your new APP, so you can be dazzled by the promise of a new Better normal!! this is chilling stuff and it's been peddled daily. I have friends that would laugh at so called conspiracy theories but this is generally very strange. Like something you'd see running in the back round of Logans run!

dalyboy · 01-09-2020 12:24PM

rusty cole wrote: »

I agree with you and also, since when did you have to give details on your health so easily? where's the doctor patience confidentiality now. Who's to say there's not more to taking a swap outside a doctor setting. How do you know your DNA, Blood type and even health status is not being harvested and sold to insurance companies etc. Do you surrender legal protection with a the hasty swipe of your new APP, so you can be dazzled by the promise of a new Better normal!! this is chilling stuff and it's been peddled daily. I have friends that would laugh at so called conspiracy theories but this is generally very strange. Like something you'd see running in the back round of Logans run!

I’m not one for being scared generally but this has put the sh1ts up me.

This company needs to be made an example of and any of the owners / directors responsible for it should be run out of the country . That includes anyone that endorses it. Complete traitors every one of them

hmmm · 01-09-2020 12:51PM

end of the road wrote: »

if we just stayed open and left the virus run rampant, our health system would have likely collapsed, the economy would have likely collapsed as high cases would likely have meant a lot less people working while they recovered no doubt.

And people would have been afraid to leave their homes, which would have been an economic disaster. It's hard to explain to a lot of posters on this thread who keep shouting about how the virus is mild for 80% of people that we all live in families, and maybe we'd like to look after the other 20%.

As it is we still have obvious restrictions, but 90% of the economy is still operating while just about balancing the virus risk. We should have a vaccine next year which will allow us to get back towards the 100%.

It is increasingly clear however that what has happened will permanently change our economies and cities even after the pandemic has passed. I don't believe workers will migrate en masse to the countrysides, but the city centres will probably be a lot younger and we'll see more economic activity drift to the suburbs and villages to cater for people who are WFH. Apparently similar population movements were seen in previous pandemics throughout history, and lasted until memories faded.

MadYaker · 01-09-2020 01:28PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

I have posted links to the official data numerous times as it is clear people like you prefer to just read the media articles and listen to the dull and negative tones of the NPHET announcements each day, which are consistently negative despite the fantastic deaths data the past few months. That poster constantly posts little adjectives with his comments on drinks and thinks being anti-restrictions is just about pints. It is total ignorance to reduce it to that and we in this thread have been consistent for months in our position. We can't be reduced to tinfoil hat wearing, alcoholics unfortunately for that poster and you too it seems hence your OTT anger and personal attack.

The health service in Ireland is one of the worst in Europe, we have inept FF politicians as the minister for health and as taoiseach. This is reflected in our painful easing of restrictions. That is what the issue here is. For the record, 2020 has been a great year for me personally, particularly in the financial sense, so it should not make sense for me to be so anti-restrictions but I feel like I can take a step back and just read around the articles to just look at the data and facts so I am unbiased.

Hilarious. Based on the posts I've read from you (and many others) on this thread I wouldn't trust you to assess the weather for me. This thread is full of people who think they know everything but actually know nothing.

Scuid Mhór · 01-09-2020 01:33PM

Dionaibh wrote: »

The UN organised a virtual concert in August and one of the songs that was sung during the concert contains the following lyrics:

"Around the world we’re closing borders, COVID-19 on the rise
A new world order behind closed doors, the storm will pass, we will survive
We will rise, we will rise again, our isles will rise again
We will rise, we will rise again, our world will rise again”

What does "a new world order behind closed doors" mean?

It means absolutely nothing. If the UN wanted to create a new world order on the back of a pandemic, they wouldn't tell people via song lyrics.

Penfailed · 01-09-2020 01:47PM

hmmm wrote: »

We should have a vaccine next year which will allow us to get back towards the 100%.

You are continually repeating this mantra that we will have a vaccine next year. I don't think we will but, to humour you, let's say we do. What do you think the uptake will be? I, for one, will not be first in line for a rushed vaccine. We're going to have to live with this virus, vaccine or no vaccine.

Assetbacked · 01-09-2020 01:59PM

MadYaker wrote: »

Hilarious. Based on the posts I've read from you (and many others) on this thread I wouldn't trust you to assess the weather for me. This thread is full of people who think they know everything but actually know nothing.

So you support the following messages from the government the past few months (which says a lot about you);

1. Flip flopping on nursing homes and allowing visitors, testing staff etc then the bulk of our deaths came from not appreciating the risk to nursing home residents as they are the ones that suffered.

2. You can have a wedding indoors up to 50 people but can't stand outside beside a pitch and watch a match.

3. Simon Harris back in early March saying it was utterly pointless to ban flights from other countries as we are in the EU.

4. The green list; we decided not to go with an EU approach which made allowances for other EU countries but at the same time flights weren't actually banned and there were no actual restrictions on flights. No testing at airports too after 6 months. Unhelpful mixed messaging on travel.

5. Lockdown was told to be a temporary, extreme measure in order to flatten the curve (which means protecting the health service). Deaths and hospitalisations have been down at very low levels for over 3 months yet apparently the issue is that we aren't at low enough cases numbers. An inconsistent shift in approach to just focus on cases.

6. 9euro meals in pubs are okay but nothing cheaper and definitely it is not okay to just go for a drink.

7. Meat factories were, knowingly by the government, allowed to stay open despite evidence that they were not following the guidance and that they were linked to a cluster a number of weeks ago. Then there was a flare up recently of cases and the approach was to use the draconian lockdown on all of society in 3 counties despite the fact this was the government's and not the general public's error.

8. Telling people to socially distance themselves when meeting people not in their household. This is advocating puritanism so enough said there.

There are more but these are a few off the top of my head. All ridiculous, clearly not science based and you are supporting these. This is my issue with restrictions, the general view as to how covid is not a harmful illness is a separate discussion based on the official data available to us. I am happy to go through that again too.

hmmm · 01-09-2020 02:12PM

Penfailed wrote: »

You are continually repeating this mantra that we will have a vaccine next year. I don't think we will but, to humour you, let's say we do. What do you think the uptake will be? I, for one, will not be first in line for a rushed vaccine. We're going to have to live with this virus, vaccine or no vaccine.

EU regulators won't be signing off on any vaccine which skips safety checks, and you'd be well advised to have a read of the vaccines thread before repeating talking points and phrases ("rushed vaccine") which are being deliberately spread by anti-vaxxers.

end of the road · 01-09-2020 02:42PM

hmmm wrote: »

And people would have been afraid to leave their homes, which would have been an economic disaster. It's hard to explain to a lot of posters on this thread who keep shouting about how the virus is mild for 80% of people that we all live in families, and maybe we'd like to look after the other 20%.

As it is we still have obvious restrictions, but 90% of the economy is still operating while just about balancing the virus risk. We should have a vaccine next year which will allow us to get back towards the 100%.

It is increasingly clear however that what has happened will permanently change our economies and cities even after the pandemic has passed. I don't believe workers will migrate en masse to the countrysides, but the city centres will probably be a lot younger and we'll see more economic activity drift to the suburbs and villages to cater for people who are WFH. Apparently similar population movements were seen in previous pandemics throughout history, and lasted until memories faded.

even during the lockdown the economy mostly continued, factories were working, the financial services sector and the other sectors which are the main contributers were working thanks to working from home.
there will be changes no doubt and in some ways some of them will be for the better i think but time will tell i guess.

MadYaker wrote: »

Hilarious. Based on the posts I've read from you (and many others) on this thread I wouldn't trust you to assess the weather for me. This thread is full of people who think they know everything but actually know nothing.

100% correct.
i would go further and say i wouldn't trust them to assess the running of a tap.

Assetbacked wrote: »

So you support the following messages from the government the past few months (which says a lot about you);

1. Flip flopping on nursing homes and allowing visitors, testing staff etc then the bulk of our deaths came from not appreciating the risk to nursing home residents as they are the ones that suffered.

2. You can have a wedding indoors up to 50 people but can't stand outside beside a pitch and watch a match.

3. Simon Harris back in early March saying it was utterly pointless to ban flights from other countries as we are in the EU.

4. The green list; we decided not to go with an EU approach which made allowances for other EU countries but at the same time flights weren't actually banned and there were no actual restrictions on flights. No testing at airports too after 6 months. Unhelpful mixed messaging on travel.

5. Lockdown was told to be a temporary, extreme measure in order to flatten the curve (which means protecting the health service). Deaths and hospitalisations have been down at very low levels for over 3 months yet apparently the issue is that we aren't at low enough cases numbers. An inconsistent shift in approach to just focus on cases.

6. 9euro meals in pubs are okay but nothing cheaper and definitely it is not okay to just go for a drink.

7. Meat factories were, knowingly by the government, allowed to stay open despite evidence that they were not following the guidance and that they were linked to a cluster a number of weeks ago. Then there was a flare up recently of cases and the approach was to use the draconian lockdown on all of society in 3 counties despite the fact this was the government's and not the general public's error.

8. Telling people to socially distance themselves when meeting people not in their household. This is advocating puritanism so enough said there.

There are more but these are a few off the top of my head. All ridiculous, clearly not science based and you are supporting these. This is my issue with restrictions, the general view as to how covid is not a harmful illness is a separate discussion based on the official data available to us. I am happy to go through that again too.

1. a serious mistake with the message changing due to constantly changing information.
2. based on ever changing evidence and i believe has been ammended since, certainly it's better to be out doors then in.
3. it was an understandable point at the time, given the government were unsure if it would be possible to implement such a ban due to freedom of movement rules.
4. perhapse going with the EU approach may have been better however in saying that we do have to take an approach that meets our needs and that is workable for us, the EU approach may not have fit that bill, i don't know.
5. that's exactly what lockdown was, and it's exactly what we got.
there was never going to be a simple throwing open of the doors after lockdown ended, there were always going to be restrictions and high risk industries kept closed longer then the rest.
deaths are low, but the government do have to keep an eye on cases as if cases go to high and the deaths start rising again we have a problem, but so far the deaths are low and that is in all likely hood due to our approach.
6. the whole point of the 9 euro meal and other restrictions is to lessen the effects of alcohol and lessen the numbers attending pubs while allowing some pubs to reopen, it was the best compromise and most workable compromise to balance public health and provide some pub facilities for those who really really wanted them.
7. ultimately yes the meat factories are an issue, but the problem is they are also needed, so the government certainly need to get to grips with that issue.
because the workers in the meat plants come from all of those counties that were locked down, the government implemented a lockdown for 2 reasons.
1. suppress any flareups and potential flareups in not so effected counties (laois and offally) and in kildare's case try and suppress the high numbers of cases. now perhapse they could have just locked down kildare and actually enforced the lockdown and left laois and offally open, who knows, but we are where we are.
8. absolute nonsense, the whole point is to try and prevent the spreading from household to household, this is basic stuff.
everything we did was science and evidence based, however the science and evidence was forever changing, so by the time we implemented something the evidence showed that it was not the right course or another way of taking the specific course was needed, as i have said before on this forum there was no dress rehersal for this, every country was learning on the job literally.
the general view as to covid not being a harmless illness comes from a mix of conspiricy theory and the fact that because we didn't leave it go unchecked the effects over all were not anything near what were feared.
it is certainly a harmful illness if left unchecked, even some people who were healthy and who survived it have ended up with serious effects.

Dionaibh · 01-09-2020 02:44PM

Scuid Mhór wrote: »

It means absolutely nothing. If the UN wanted to create a new world order on the back of a pandemic, they wouldn't tell people via song lyrics.

Why wouldn't they? The World Economic Forum have been pushing The Great Reset for months. What do you think The Great Rest is? A few gentle recommendations? They want to reset the planet. And they've been pushing Covi-Pass for months. And now health passports.

Why would they include 'a new world order behind closed doors' in the song? What do they mean by it?

01-09-2020 02:44PM

This idea that the health system will become overwhelmed needs to stop. Sweden have an ICU capacity similar to ours and didn't even lockdown and their health system never became overwhelmed. Our health system is currently as far as possible from been overwhelmed. Even without lockdown in April, its unlikely it would have been anything more than strained.

It is also frustrating that people keep saying that the country is fully open or 90% open.
This country hasn't been anything close to fully open since March. Anybody suggesting it is really doesn't understand the situation properly. You don't have almost 17% unemployment because pubs are closed.

The idea that people would be afraid to leave their houses if there was more cases of Covid is laughable. I've not seen a shred of evidence to support that.

So many people are desperate to justify actions that are completely disproportionate to the threat.
We've had f*ck all deaths and f*ck all in ICU for months now.

GocRh · 01-09-2020 03:07PM

end of the road wrote: »

even during the lockdown the economy mostly continued, factories were working, the financial services sector and the other sectors which are the main contributers were working thanks to working from home.

834k people still receiving some form of state support (PUP, payroll and live register). That's 1/3 of the entire workforce.

3.3 Billion Euros spent on PUP alone - not including payroll support and live register.

Record GDP contraction even though our GDP is artificially propped up by MNCs. Real economy fall certainly greater than what's measured in GDP terms.

Is that what you call 'mostly continued'?

end of the road · 01-09-2020 03:07PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This idea that the health system will become overwhelmed needs to stop. Sweden have an ICU capacity similar to ours and didn't even lockdown and their health system never became overwhelmed. Our health system is currently as far as possible from been overwhelmed. Even without lockdown in April, its unlikely it would have been anything more than strained.

It is also frustrating that people keep saying that the country is fully open or 90% open.
This country hasn't been anything close to fully open since March. Anybody suggesting it is really doesn't understand the situation properly. You don't have almost 17% unemployment because pubs are closed.

The idea that people would be afraid to leave their houses if there was more cases of Covid is laughable. I've not seen a shred of evidence to support that.

So many people are desperate to justify actions that are completely disproportionate to the threat.
We've had f*ck all deaths and f*ck all in ICU for months now.

Sweden has probably the best health system in the world, even if it does only have similar capacity to us, it is not comparable to us or most other countries, the reality is health systems would have become overwhelmed had there not been checks put in place on this virus.
Sweden's approach is not proof against lockdown, it is only proof that things mostly worked out for them, however they may have had less deaths with lockdown all be it we will never know because they didn't take that approach but their approach is certainly not proof of anything for or against.
the country is 95% open, only the wet pubs are closed due to the fact that they may be potentially higher risk compared to everything else, however they will be open most likely before the end of the year.
the unemployment rate is down to many factors, some will be due to the pubs, some will be due to businesses closing which probably would have anyway unfortunately, and some will be due to other businesses seeing less demand meaning less staff required. much of that would have happened lockdown or not.
most people are not afraid to leave their houses, however most people don't want to get this thing or even pass it on, which is reasonable really.
the actions taken were proportionate to the threat, were mistakes made absolutely but a lockdown to suppress the virus to a managable level was needed and restrictions upon opening up to keep things in check so that we can open up and live with the virus were needed and therefore were implemented.
we have had low deaths and low ICU numbers in all likely hood due to the lockdown and subsiquent restrictions.

end of the road · 01-09-2020 03:11PM

GocRh wrote: »

834k people still receiving some form of state support (PUP, payroll and live register). That's 1/3 of the entire workforce.

3.3 Billion Euros spent on PUP alone - not including payroll support and live register.

Record GDP contraction even though our GDP is artificially propped up by MNCs. Real economy fall certainly greater than what's measured in GDP terms.

Is that what you call 'mostly continued'?

while a third of the work force were not working, 2 thirds of it were, so yes i would suggest that is the economy mostly continuing.
covid was in all likely hood going to bring economic effects and unemployment no matter what approach was taken.

facehugger99 · 01-09-2020 03:17PM

hmmm wrote: »

And people would have been afraid to leave their homes, which would have been an economic disaster. It's hard to explain to a lot of posters on this thread who keep shouting about how the virus is mild for 80% of people that we all live in families, and maybe we'd like to look after the other 20%.

As it is we still have obvious restrictions, but 90% of the economy is still operating while just about balancing the virus risk. We should have a vaccine next year which will allow us to get back towards the 100%.

It is increasingly clear however that what has happened will permanently change our economies and cities even after the pandemic has passed. I don't believe workers will migrate en masse to the countrysides, but the city centres will probably be a lot younger and we'll see more economic activity drift to the suburbs and villages to cater for people who are WFH. Apparently similar population movements were seen in previous pandemics throughout history, and lasted until memories faded.

How you're allowed to continually peddle your lies and sh;ite on here baffles me.

From a budget surplus last year, we are on course for a €30bn deficit this year.

Our economy is in the toilet.

A couple of budgets of tax hikes and service cuts and most of the slack-jawed, clappy seals braying about how you can't prioritise the economy above a single life, will have changed their tune dramatically I'll wager.

Idbatterim · 01-09-2020 03:21PM

30 billion?! Surely that cant be right ?!

facehugger99 · 01-09-2020 03:27PM

Idbatterim wrote: »

30 billion?! Surely that cant be right ?!

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/government-deficit-balloons-to-5-3bn-on-covid-spending-1.4294641

Assetbacked · 01-09-2020 03:28PM

end of the road wrote: »

even during the lockdown the economy mostly continued, factories were working, the financial services sector and the other sectors which are the main contributers were working thanks to working from home.
there will be changes no doubt and in some ways some of them will be for the better i think but time will tell i guess.

100% correct.
i would go further and say i wouldn't trust them to assess the running of a tap.

1. a serious mistake with the message changing due to constantly changing information.
2. based on ever changing evidence and i believe has been ammended since, certainly it's better to be out doors then in.
3. it was an understandable point at the time, given the government were unsure if it would be possible to implement such a ban due to freedom of movement rules.
4. perhapse going with the EU approach may have been better however in saying that we do have to take an approach that meets our needs and that is workable for us, the EU approach may not have fit that bill, i don't know.
5. that's exactly what lockdown was, and it's exactly what we got.
there was never going to be a simple throwing open of the doors after lockdown ended, there were always going to be restrictions and high risk industries kept closed longer then the rest.
deaths are low, but the government do have to keep an eye on cases as if cases go to high and the deaths start rising again we have a problem, but so far the deaths are low and that is in all likely hood due to our approach.
6. the whole point of the 9 euro meal and other restrictions is to lessen the effects of alcohol and lessen the numbers attending pubs while allowing some pubs to reopen, it was the best compromise and most workable compromise to balance public health and provide some pub facilities for those who really really wanted them.
7. ultimately yes the meat factories are an issue, but the problem is they are also needed, so the government certainly need to get to grips with that issue.
because the workers in the meat plants come from all of those counties that were locked down, the government implemented a lockdown for 2 reasons.
1. suppress any flareups and potential flareups in not so effected counties (laois and offally) and in kildare's case try and suppress the high numbers of cases. now perhapse they could have just locked down kildare and actually enforced the lockdown and left laois and offally open, who knows, but we are where we are.
8. absolute nonsense, the whole point is to try and prevent the spreading from household to household, this is basic stuff.
everything we did was science and evidence based, however the science and evidence was forever changing, so by the time we implemented something the evidence showed that it was not the right course or another way of taking the specific course was needed, as i have said before on this forum there was no dress rehersal for this, every country was learning on the job literally.
the general view as to covid not being a harmless illness comes from a mix of conspiricy theory and the fact that because we didn't leave it go unchecked the effects over all were not anything near what were feared.
it is certainly a harmful illness if left unchecked, even some people who were healthy and who survived it have ended up with serious effects.

So 1, 2, 3 you are admitting they were wrong and fluffing it with "understandable at the time/ever changing".

4, "I don't know, maybe this was the wrong idea". Similarly, with 7, you are accepting this was an error.

5, deaths are low because those of working age (ie under 65) are not that affected by the virus and under 45s are basically negligible impacted, this is reflected in the data. In fact, even for over 65s, it appears only those with underlying conditions have their death accelerated by covid but given the median age of covid deaths is higher than the median life expectancy, arguably they are dying because they are simply just old and being old comes with its health risks.

6, I don't accept that. I have been to several pubs and restaurants and it is safer than a house party which I have also been to with table service only and tables spread out.

8, it is advocating puritanism telling people to not go near each other and closing pubs which are places to meet people and hook up.

Not attacking you here but you are not comfortable with the government's decisions based on your response to those restrictions.

Assetbacked · 01-09-2020 03:31PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

How you're allowed to continually peddle your lies and sh;ite on here baffles me.

From a budget surplus last year, we are on course for a €30bn deficit this year.

Our economy is in the toilet.

A couple of budgets of tax hikes and service cuts and most of the slack-jawed, clappy seals braying about how you can't prioritise the economy above a single life, will have changed their tune dramatically I'll wager.

Is there an economic thread for Covid?

Spending cuts will come over tax hikes, at least income tax hikes anyway. There will be big cuts to allowances and budgets for departments which aren't that active at the moment like arts and culture budgets, transport, housing even. Next year then economic stimulation will be needed more like funding housing and infrastructure projects.

Dionaibh · 01-09-2020 03:31PM

Deleted User wrote: »

This idea that the health system will become overwhelmed needs to stop. Sweden have an ICU capacity similar to ours and didn't even lockdown and their health system never became overwhelmed. Our health system is currently as far as possible from been overwhelmed. Even without lockdown in April, its unlikely it would have been anything more than strained.

It is also frustrating that people keep saying that the country is fully open or 90% open.
This country hasn't been anything close to fully open since March. Anybody suggesting it is really doesn't understand the situation properly. You don't have almost 17% unemployment because pubs are closed.

The idea that people would be afraid to leave their houses if there was more cases of Covid is laughable. I've not seen a shred of evidence to support that.

So many people are desperate to justify actions that are completely disproportionate to the threat.
We've had f*ck all deaths and f*ck all in ICU for months now.

You're right, but I think that most people like the idea of living through a pandemic. The idea of surviving against all the odds. People find it unbearable, despite the overwhelming evidence ('Lockstep' in the Rockefeller Report which predicted this, Event 201 which simulated it, the UN singing about "a new world order behind closed doors", The Great Reset to reset the planet), to have to come to terms with the fact that this could be an attack on everything we hold dear. So they'll go on and on about cases so that they don't have to consider the possibility.

funnydoggy · 01-09-2020 03:37PM

Dionaibh wrote: »

You're right, but I think that most people like the idea of living through a pandemic. The idea of surviving against all the odds. People find it unbearable, despite the overwhelming evidence ('Lockstep' in the Rockefeller Report which predicted this, Event 201 which simulated it, the UN singing about "a new world order behind closed doors", The Great Reset to reset the planet), to have to come to terms with the fact that this could be an attack on everything we hold dear. So they'll go on and on about cases so that they don't have to consider the possibility.

Since when did this become the conspiracy theory thread?

Dionaibh · 01-09-2020 03:42PM

funnydoggy wrote: »

Since when did this become the conspiracy theory thread?

None of Lockstep, Event 201, the UN song or The Great Reset is a conspiracy theory.

And in several countries, including Ireland, they're talking about second waves and lockdowns. All in lockstep with one another.

01-09-2020 03:44PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Is there an economic thread for Covid?

Spending cuts will come over tax hikes, at least income tax hikes anyway. There will be big cuts to allowances and budgets for departments which aren't that active at the moment like arts and culture budgets, transport.

I was only saying on here the other day that high rents and already high taxes and USC means it will be difficult for the government to tax people even more.
As it stands, the higher tax bracket kicks in below the average wage.

I think we'll have to make lots of cuts to spending. We'll all suffer indirectly from that.

I think they'll have to review the corporation tax. We can't remain a tax haven for big companies to take advantage of while our people suffer from paycheck to paycheck. Of Course, this will discourage other companies from coming to Ireland and some may leave.

Either way, looks like there will be a lot of pain ahead for everybody.
And yet we continue to destroy the economy for an illness that is currently killing nobody and rarely even makes people seriously ill...

hmmm · 01-09-2020 03:59PM

facehugger99 wrote: »

From a budget surplus last year, we are on course for a €30bn deficit this year.

Our economy is in the toilet.

If we allowed the virus to simply get out of control, that 30 billion would be a lot larger. Our economy is expected to contract by around 6.5% this year (there or there about), it's a long way from "in the toilet".

Our 30 year bond yield is currently 0.442% - that 30 billion will cost us €132 million a year, which seems a cheap price to pay to bail out workers & companies which are suffering until we get a handle on this.

LessOutragePlz · 01-09-2020 04:07PM

hmmm wrote: »

until we get a handle on this.

We have a complete handle on this, very low hospitalisations and zero deaths over the last few days. The worst is over and there will be no second wave, just look at the below graph in relation to the UK.

https://twitter.com/FatEmperor/status/1300374384255868928?s=19

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings