Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 02:28PM

its a tough one. i depend on travel for work but certainly would be reticent to get a vaccination...certainly early on. I don't want to get it to be honest. Id hate to think I could be forced or coerced into it. Is it fair to say its one of the most "rushed" vaccines of all time?

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 02:32PM

MadYaker wrote: »

It would allow much freer movement though and we could roll back on restrictions if everyone used it but it’ll never happen. Too many conspiracy theorists.

I don't think that kind of rhetoric helps. i wouldn't consider myself a conspiracy theorist but would always raise an eyebrow at anything that removes a freedom I once had or places an impediment in my way to travel or get welfare etc.

As a tax payer and a voter I think i have that right. These things should definitely be given due process.

Assetbacked · 31-08-2020 02:34PM

hmmm wrote: »

It could be useful to help lift restrictions in certain circumstances. I think we can definitely expect to see some sort of "vaccination cert" next year - at the very least certain countries will only allow vaccinated people to enter (similar to how the Yellow fever vaccination is required to enter certain countries now). Whether a "testing cert" would be as useful is perhaps a bit debatable.

It is possible also that the government could allow businesses which only admit vaccinated (passport) people to get rid of social distancing and mask requirements - a lot of business would jump at this opportunity. Vaccines are likely to roll out slowly as they are manufactured, so this won't happen overnight, but why should businesses have to suffer in order to cater for the minority who refuse the vaccine? We need to relax restrictions, not maintain them to cater for the choices of a small group.

Why should businesses get more of an ear from the government than the individuals? You are borderline psychotic in your reasoning and a detailed post like the above really shows how you are perhaps missing a few screws. Genuinely, what business is it to the government if people are minding their own business and do not want to show their health status?

Diabhalta · 31-08-2020 02:39PM

Hi! Everything relaxed here in CZ...

hmmm · 31-08-2020 02:41PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Why should businesses get more of an ear from the government than the individuals? You are borderline psychotic in your reasoning and a detailed post like the above really shows how you are perhaps missing a few screws. Genuinely, what business is it to the government if people are minding their own business and do not want to show their health status?

For a lot of us, going to somewhere like a restaurant where you were guaranteed not to get Covid would be very attractive right now. It should be for businesses themselves to decide what sort of customer they want. I don't want to be paying to get tested every few weeks so I can't see a general testing app providing enough of a market right now, but once vaccinations start to be deployed it will become feasible for businesses to make that choice.

funnydoggy · 31-08-2020 02:42PM

Diabhalta wrote: »

Hi! Everything relaxed here in CZ...

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 02:46PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Why should businesses get more of an ear from the government than the individuals? You are borderline psychotic in your reasoning and a detailed post like the above really shows how you are perhaps missing a few screws. Genuinely, what business is it to the government if people are minding their own business and do not want to show their health status?

my body my choice.........

mountgomery burns · 31-08-2020 02:47PM

hmmm wrote: »

It could be useful to help lift restrictions in certain circumstances. I think we can definitely expect to see some sort of "vaccination cert" next year - at the very least certain countries will only allow vaccinated people to enter (similar to how the Yellow fever vaccination is required to enter certain countries now). Whether a "testing cert" would be as useful is perhaps a bit debatable.

It is possible also that the government could allow businesses which only admit vaccinated (passport) people to get rid of social distancing and mask requirements - a lot of business would jump at this opportunity. Vaccines are likely to roll out slowly as they are manufactured, so this won't happen overnight, but why should businesses have to suffer in order to cater for the minority who refuse the vaccine? We need to relax restrictions, not maintain them to cater for the choices of a small group.

You're making two different arguments there. There is no vaccine or imminent one. Some good prospects yet but no point in making plans for a vaccine until we know one definitely works and how quickly it could be scaled up.

With regards to what this app is actually proposing, it would require public health teams to actually adopt the rapid testing proposed. Until they do that it's completely useless at any rate, before we start on an ethical debate.

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 02:49PM

hmmm wrote: »

For a lot of us, going to somewhere like a restaurant where you were guaranteed not to get Covid would be very attractive right now. It should be for businesses themselves to decide what sort of customer they want. I don't want to be paying to get tested every few weeks so I can't see a general testing app providing enough of a market right now, but once vaccinations start to be deployed it will become feasible for businesses to make that choice.

Once you get the vaccination you'll be ok though right? if i don't get it and sit beside you in the restaurant I cant make you sick if you've had it. Those who are afraid can get vaccinated, those who don't give a toss don't have to. Everybody is happy no? Why enforce your fears and morality on others?

facehugger99 · 31-08-2020 02:53PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Why should businesses get more of an ear from the government than the individuals? You are borderline psychotic in your reasoning and a detailed post like the above really shows how you are perhaps missing a few screws. Genuinely, what business is it to the government if people are minding their own business and do not want to show their health status?

They say the price of freedom is enteral vigilance but what's become abundantly clear, is that the greatest threat to our civil liberties and freedoms comes from fellow citizens.

They would gladly trade yours and my democratic rights away on the promise of being made to feel 'safe'. It's chilling how blase they are about it and it's very easy to see how fascism can take root in a society.

hmmm · 31-08-2020 02:54PM

mountgomery burns wrote: »

You're making two different arguments there. There is no vaccine or imminent one. Some good prospects yet but no point in making plans for a vaccine until we know one definitely works and how quickly it could be scaled up.

With regards to what this app is actually proposing, it would require public health teams to actually adopt the rapid testing proposed. Until they do that it's completely useless at any rate, before we start on an ethical debate.

I agree with you, I'm just looking forward about 6 months. This app is a taste of what is potentially to come.

ShyMets · 31-08-2020 02:56PM

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

Once you get the vaccination you'll be ok though right? if i don't get it and sit beside you in the restaurant I cant make you sick if you've had it. Those who are afraid can get vaccinated, those who don't give a toss don't have to. Everybody is happy no? Why enforce your fears and morality on others?

For God's shake man. Get with the program. You're actions could kill your Granny. And if your Granny is dead then your actions might kill someone else's granny and maybe their grannies.

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 03:01PM

ShyMets wrote: »

For God's shake man. Get with the program. You're actions could kill your Granny. And if your Granny is dead then your actions might kill someone else's granny and maybe their grannies.

But they would get granny vaccinated wouldn't they? the stellar vigilant grandchildren they are.

31-08-2020 03:03PM

hmmm wrote: »

For a lot of us, going to somewhere like a restaurant where you were guaranteed not to get Covid would be very attractive right now. It should be for businesses themselves to decide what sort of customer they want. I don't want to be paying to get tested every few weeks so I can't see a general testing app providing enough of a market right now, but once vaccinations start to be deployed it will become feasible for businesses to make that choice.

1) I really don't understand why you are so worried about Covid despite all the many other risks we take every day in life. You realize how low the chances are of actually catching Covid? You realize how low the chance are of it actually been anything more than a very mild illness are?

2) There is no vaccine right now. There is no date when a vaccine will be ready. There is no timelines for how long it would take to be distributed. There is no guarantee it will even 100% work on everybody.

What you seem to be hoping for is a guarantee that you will never get sick when you leave the house. Unfortunately that is not possible. Even billionaires get sick.

3xh · 31-08-2020 03:03PM

hmmm wrote: »

It could be useful to help lift restrictions in certain circumstances. I think we can definitely expect to see some sort of "vaccination cert" next year - at the very least certain countries will only allow vaccinated people to enter (similar to how the Yellow fever vaccination is required to enter certain countries now). Whether a "testing cert" would be as useful is perhaps a bit debatable.

It is possible also that the government could allow businesses which only admit vaccinated (passport) people to get rid of social distancing and mask requirements - a lot of business would jump at this opportunity. Vaccines are likely to roll out slowly as they are manufactured, so this won't happen overnight, but why should businesses have to suffer in order to cater for the MINORITY who refuse the vaccine? We need to relax restrictions, not maintain them to cater for the choices of a small group.

A few people have called you out at this stage as to who you really are, hmmm, suggesting you’re someone that isn’t just a member of the public who believes all this Covid stuff.

I’m of the view too that you’re someone with more than just a passing interest in wanting to put all this Covid behind us and move on.

I notice how you say ‘......minority (my capitals) who refuse the vaccine’
I suspect you’re right and that the majority of the population here will ultimately take it. But I feel if people were genuinely left to decide for themselves with no threat of societal access removal, stunted job progression, inability to undertake education, the majority of people would in fact not take it.

A sizeable cohort of your family, neighbours, colleagues will not want this vaccine. Much less want it ‘under promise of getting back to normal’

Not to sound emotive but your posts really are disgusting. There’s no way you just simply and honestly believe that this is an unfortunate virus going around and we need to listen to the experts to get our lives back.

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 03:06PM

Deleted User wrote: »

1) I really don't understand why you are so worried about Covid despite all the many other risks we take every day in life. You realize how low the chances are of actually catching Covid? You realize how low the chance are of it actually been anything more than a very mild illness are?

2) There is no vaccine right now. There is no date when a vaccine will be ready. There is no timelines for how long it would take to be distributed. There is no guarantee it will even 100% work on everybody.

What you seem to be hoping for is a guarantee that you will never get sick when you leave the house. Unfortunately that is not possible. Even billionaires get sick.

There are two factions in this thread. Those arguing the low death numbers are not commensurate with the restrictions in place and impact on our lives.

the other faction are arguing about potential risks, potential long term damage, potentially killing granny etc.

One side is using numbers and facts the other side is using intangibles and feelings.

hmmm · 31-08-2020 03:08PM

3xh wrote: »

A few people have called you out at this stage as to who you really are, hmmm, suggesting you’re someone that isn’t just a member of the public who believes all this Covid stuff.

Less of the personal stuff please 3xh, I've no link to NPHET or any other bogeyman. If you want to post somewhere where no-one will disagree with you, I'm sure there are other places available to you. If you don't like what I'm saying and it annoys you so much, you can always add me to your ignore list.

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 03:10PM

3xh wrote: »

A few people have called you out at this stage as to who you really are, hmmm, suggesting you’re someone that isn’t just a member of the public who believes all this Covid stuff.

I’m of the view too that you’re someone with more than just a passing interest in wanting to put all this Covid behind us and move on.

I notice how you say ‘......minority (my capitals) who refuse the vaccine’
I suspect you’re right and that the majority of the population here will ultimately take it. But I feel if people were genuinely left to decide for themselves with no threat of societal access removal, stunted job progression, inability to undertake education, the majority of people would in fact not take it.

A sizeable cohort of your family, neighbours, colleagues will not want this vaccine. Much less want it ‘under promise of getting back to normal’

Not to sound emotive but your posts really are disgusting. There’s no way you just simply and honestly believe that this is an unfortunate virus going around and we need to listen to the experts to get our lives back.

My missus out lad knocks into us every week. He is 71. Refuses to wear a mask, visited us during lockdown every few days, and even came to us after we came back from Spain. He doesn't give a fiddlers. He just says " doctors differ and patients die" from the poem. Some people aren't afraid of this. And we will be got by something eventually anyway.

Charles Babbage · 31-08-2020 03:23PM

TRANQUILLO wrote: »

There are two factions in this thread. Those arguing the low death numbers are not commensurate with the restrictions in place and impact on our lives.

the other faction are arguing about potential risks, potential long term damage, potentially killing granny etc.

One side is using numbers and facts the other side is using intangibles and feelings.

No, both are using feelings, one is saying stuff granny I am not old and the other values life above drink.

3xh · 31-08-2020 03:25PM

hmmm wrote: »

Less of the personal stuff please 3xh, I've no link to NPHET or any other bogeyman. If you want to post somewhere where no-one will disagree with you, I'm sure there are other places available to you. If you don't like what I'm saying and it annoys you so much, you can always add me to your ignore list.

Well, I didn’t mention NPHET. Although other posters, in fact, did. In other threads if I’m correct.

Tbh, whilst I wrote what I wrote about my suspicions of your motives, I’ll admit I admire your willingness to still engage in multiple threads and try explain what it is you hope to see happen with Covid in time.

Other posters who didn’t agree with the facts, reports and stats I presented in the numerous Covid threads just started calling me ‘Trump’ ‘a liar’ ‘a conspiracy theorist’ ‘a tinfoil hatter’ among other things and say they’ll no longer talk to me.

I wouldn’t put you on the ignore list. That’s quite a pathetic action, imo.

But it’s not personal to say, going by your posts, I feel you’re someone with more than just a hope and desire to get back to 0 Covid and move on.

That out of the way, I find your restaurant analogy weak. What if I walk in 1 day before my green status expires and so is due to turn amber? Surely the length of time between green status expiring to amber is such that I could’ve acquired Covid since my last negative test?

ShyMets · 31-08-2020 03:26PM

hmmm wrote: »

Less of the personal stuff please 3xh, I've no link to NPHET or any other bogeyman. If you want to post somewhere where no-one will disagree with you, I'm sure there are other places available to you. If you don't like what I'm saying and it annoys you so much, you can always add me to your ignore list.

Firstly let me say I find what you post on the Vaccine thread very informative and helpful.

But I do find some of other posts worrying. You seem to be willing to trade away certain freedom in order to reduce your risk of contracting Covid. And on one level I can understand this.

But these freedom were hard one. It can be a very simple matter to give them away. Much harder to get them back.

We need to be careful about the road we start going down

Penfailed · 31-08-2020 03:37PM

ShyMets wrote: »

I agree. Such a prospect is truly appealing. But I can think of a few posters on this forum who are probably salivating at the thought

Appealing or appalling?

ShyMets · 31-08-2020 03:39PM

Penfailed wrote: »

Appealing or appalling?

Good spot. Should have been appalling. Thanks

Penfailed · 31-08-2020 03:52PM

ShyMets wrote: »

Good spot. Should have been appalling. Thanks

I thought that...but couldn't be sure

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 04:04PM

Charles Babbage wrote: »

No, both are using feelings, one is saying stuff granny I am not old and the other values life above drink.

Drink?

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 04:06PM

ShyMets wrote: »

Firstly let me say I find what you post on the Vaccine thread very informative and helpful.

But I do find some of other posts worrying. You seem to be willing to trade away certain freedom in order to reduce your risk of contracting Covid. And on one level I can understand this.

But these freedom were hard one. It can be a very simple matter to give them away. Much harder to get them back.

We need to be careful about the road we start going down

When oil prices increase it is seen at the petrol pumps the next day. When they decrease it doesn't come down at the pumps for ages ......Same for freedoms like this. Give them an inch......

road_high · 31-08-2020 04:14PM

Saw headlines in UK news about tax rises to pay for the Covid costs. Surely we can't be very far behind?

TRANQUILLO · 31-08-2020 04:16PM

road_high wrote: »

Saw headlines in UK news about tax rises to pay for the Covid costs. Surely we can't be very far behind?

They have played it so beautifully that they have managed to make us feel like the oppressors and the oppressed at the same time.

MEGA BRO WOLF 5000 · 31-08-2020 04:47PM

prunudo wrote: »

Not sure if it was the plan all along and I don't believe covid as an illness is a hoax but there are certainly people with power and sway using the pandemic to push alteriure motives. Cashless society being another one.

My feelings exactly. I don't think our government are capable of such a plan, to describe them as incompetent would be a compliment. It's now become a power grab. Pre covid if you put our civil liberties on a scale of 1-10 we probably had a 9/10. During lockdown and all that followed we were on maybe a 2/10... Government, once they take some of your civil liberties will only give you so many back, maybe a 6/10 on the scale...(and people will be glad of it).

We are currently being conditioned to view our freedoms as selfish.

ShyMets · 31-08-2020 04:51PM

road_high wrote: »

Saw headlines in UK news about tax rises to pay for the Covid costs. Surely we can't be very far behind?

We'll be grand. All we need to do is take a bit more cash from the magic money tree

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings