30kph coming to Dublin road near you? (note warning in post #254)

liamog · 31-07-2020 1:09am

Duckjob wrote: »

Our planners unfortunately still seem quite blind to the benefits of adding complexity to streets in built up areas, street furniture, chicanes, raised junctions, noisy paving etc. I think their eyes are opening to be, albeit slowly.

The funny thing is, they dont need to guess and experiment with what actually works. Just copy-and-paste from the Dutch! They are jedis in traffic calming neigbourhoods and making their towns and cities much more pleasant places for a person to be.

I approve of the Dutch methods, instead of just blindly replacing a sign and claiming that driving at 45km/h is now dangerous on a road that had a 50km/h limit, they redesign the streetscape to reduce traffic and improve the public realm.

Duckjob · 31-07-2020 9:06am

liamog wrote: »

I approve of the Dutch methods, instead of just blindly replacing a sign and claiming that driving at 45km/h is now dangerous on a road that had a 50km/h limit, they redesign the streetscape to reduce traffic and improve the public realm.

Agree, And physically forcing slowing speeds is not the only effect.

Those streetscapes psychologically encourage people to drive in a calmer and more measured manner too. Visit any dutch town or city and you always can notice a generally calmness of driving style that you simple don't get here.

Conversely in ireland our roads in built up areas clearly give out the opposite vibe to motorists. Little wonder people driving struggle with adhering to a 30kph /50kph and can't manage to stay still at a red light when everything about the road screams out "GO GO GO ! THE ROADS ARE FOR YOU ALONE!"

kenmm · 31-07-2020 9:58am

Duckjob wrote: »

Those streetscapes psychologically encourage people to drive in a calmer and more measured manner too.

It's the same with those places where they done experiments where they removed all signage from village centres.

No road signs mean people were using their senses more (pedestrians and vehicles) and a lot fewer accidents instead.

AndrewJRenko · 31-07-2020 11:30am

Duckjob wrote: »

Our planners unfortunately still seem quite blind to the benefits of adding complexity to streets in built up areas, street furniture, chicanes, raised junctions, noisy paving etc. I think their eyes are opening to be, albeit slowly.

The funny thing is, they dont need to guess and experiment with what actually works. Just copy-and-paste from the Dutch! They are jedis in traffic calming neigbourhoods and making their towns and cities much more pleasant places for a person to be.

The DMURS guidance supports that approach. Unfortunately, it is often ignored.
https://www.dmurs.ie/

magicbastarder · 28-08-2020 4:07pm

Dublin City Council plans for 30km/h limit despite opposition

Dublin City Council plans to press ahead with making 30km/h the “default speed limit” across the city and suburbs despite public opposition to the move.

Results of a public consultation process, which will be presented to city councillors next week, show more than half of those who made submissions on the proposed traffic bylaws opposed the cut in speed limits.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/environment/dublin-city-council-plans-for-30km-h-limit-despite-opposition-1.4340989

MJohnston · 28-08-2020 4:14pm

Typical Irish Times, burying the fact that there was 44% support for the plans.

MJohnston · 28-08-2020 4:16pm

Also it's sad how far down they include this important paragraph:

An examination of international experience and the existing 30km/h limited areas in the city “recorded only positive outcomes in terms of this road safety objective”. Residents already living in a designated 30km/h area, signalled continued support for retaining the limit the council said.

magicbastarder · 28-08-2020 4:25pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Typical Irish Times, burying the fact that there was 44% support for the plans.

what do you mean 'burying' it? burying it by explicitly mentioning it in the article?

granted, the headline could have been 'nearly half of submissions supported it', but the choice as to how to present it (less than half positive/more than half negative) has to be made, and making that choice is not an act of bias in itself.

MJohnston · 28-08-2020 4:54pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

what do you mean 'burying' it? burying it by explicitly mentioning it in the article?

granted, the headline could have been 'nearly half of submissions supported it', but the choice as to how to present it (less than half positive/more than half negative) has to be made, and making that choice is not an act of bias in itself.

Burying it by not mentioning that fact until the 9th paragraph of the story.

There are 9 paragraphs mentioning opposition, 3 mentioning support.

Here's an easy way to present it—explain the breakdown of supportive/opposing submissions right at the start!

John_Rambo · 28-08-2020 8:08pm

Most of these forward thinking things have lots of opposition at the start, then people see the light and go quiet. Pedestrianisaton of Grafton st., electricity, mobile phone masts, the model T Ford, cycle paths, wind turbines, books, etc...

FarmerBob · 31-08-2020 3:30pm

Councillors will need to approve this....I'd imagine that could be a where this plan is scuppered...

Manion · 31-08-2020 8:49pm

Can we see a map somewhere of the proposed areas of affect? I think this is great news. I'm a motorist, not a cyclist but I do live in the city and 50kmh typically means drivers travel at 60kmh even in more residential areas.

VonLuck · 31-08-2020 10:12pm

A blanket 30kmph speed limit is nonsense and doesn't take into account anything about the individual street or road. Wide, straight roads generally have no need for these kinds of restrictions. I'll admit there are some roads that need a 30kmph limit, but for the most part these are already in place.

magicbastarder · 31-08-2020 11:08pm

most of the wide straight roads won't have the reductions.
https://www.dublincity.ie/speedreview

if you click on the map, it'll download a high res PDF for you.

Infini · 02-09-2020 3:26am

magicbastarder wrote: »

most of the wide straight roads won't have the reductions.
https://www.dublincity.ie/speedreview

if you click on the map, it'll download a high res PDF for you.

Yeah they're planning on the Cabra Road and Gardiner st @ 30km and these are main and wide roads in their own right. Not a fùcking chance this will be adhered to. They literally are making arse ended changes for the sake of it.

magicbastarder · 02-09-2020 8:22am

gardiner street? are you joking?
it's 1km long. it's a max difference along the length of the street of about 45s, and that's if you get an unbroken run of green lights, and no other traffic delaying you.

cabra road is 1.5km long. 3 minutes at an unbroken 30km/h, 1m50s at 50km/h. again, that's assuming you get a clear run.

eggy81 · 02-09-2020 8:39am

MJohnston wrote: »

Motorists always want to abdicate responsibility for the fact that they’re driving something that’s incredibly dangerous to *everyone* else. If you’re driving a car, the responsibility is yours and yours alone to ensure you’re not endangering anyone. Stop trying to shirk that, stop trying to blame others for any selfishness you’ve displayed while driving.

Stop talking bollocks

El Tarangu · 02-09-2020 8:59am

eggy81 wrote: »

Stop talking bollocks

Sterling point, that man.

Duckjob · 02-09-2020 9:08am

The distance from O'Connell bridge to the top (furthest) part of Gardiner St is 1.3km.

Anyone who thinks a 50kph limit is appropriate on a street that close to the city centre needs their head examined.

MJohnston · 02-09-2020 9:50am

eggy81 wrote: »

Stop talking bollocks

Stop being selfish

Peregrine · 02-09-2020 10:18am

I can't believe I share the road with selfish drivers who think 50km/h is an appropriate speed for Gardiner Street.

Manion · 02-09-2020 11:02am

magicbastarder wrote: »

most of the wide straight roads won't have the reductions.
https://www.dublincity.ie/speedreview

if you click on the map, it'll download a high res PDF for you.

The thing I found most surprising about this are the areas that are already 30kmh, I know I was ignorant of it. How will people be informed about these new speed limits and how will it be enforced?

magicbastarder · 02-09-2020 11:35am

Manion wrote: »

How will people be informed about these new speed limits

the new speed limit signs that will be installed, at a rough guess.

Manion wrote: »

how will it be enforced?

it almost certainly won't be.

Peregrine · 02-09-2020 12:05pm

There may be a push at the start but, no, it won't be widely enforced. No road traffic laws are.

However, it will bring the average speeds down. The average speed on urban arterial 50km/h roads now is 54km/h. If everyone still breaks the 30km/h speed limit but slows down enough so that the average speed is in the 40s, we still benefit. It can be lowered further with design changes which must come after the speed limit change.

Lowering the speed limits won't fix everything but it will set us on the right path. That's all it is.

Infini · 02-09-2020 3:36pm

Duckjob wrote: »

The distance from O'Connell bridge to the top (furthest) part of Gardiner St is 1.3km.

Anyone who thinks a 50kph limit is appropriate on a street that close to the city centre needs their head examined.

Could say the same for those who want to ram arbitrary limits onto wide isle roads and main roads with no consideration for actual infrastructure or the fact this will be widely ignored expecially in the face of majority opposition to it.

Fact is the priority should be on improving infrastructure and traffic flow not lazy and half arsed solutions which wont be enforced properly anyways.

MJohnston · 02-09-2020 9:00pm

Most of my supportive submission on this was, and I think I’ve said this earlier in the thread, that the best way to enforce these new speed limits is to redesign the roads to make them inherently slower.

Road diets, as far as the eye can see, please.

Manion · 02-09-2020 10:41pm

MJohnston wrote: »

Most of my supportive submission on this was, and I think I’ve said this earlier in the thread, that the best way to enforce these new speed limits is to redesign the roads to make them inherently slower.

Road diets, as far as the eye can see, please.

I'm not sure that's feasible given the area in scope. Seems like it would require dramatic investment at a time when even putting up signage of the existing limits seems not to be a priority.

magicbastarder · 03-09-2020 3:59pm

AGS are not enforcing the current 30km/h limits:

https://twitter.com/ccferrie/status/1301528624978440192

kenmm · 03-09-2020 4:09pm

magicbastarder wrote: »

AGS are not enforcing the current 30km/h limits:

Also - If I am reading #11 correctly, they cannot enforce the 5 axle ban unless they witness an HGV driving past the sign?

That's hilarious..

magicbastarder · 03-09-2020 5:05pm

yep, that's my understanding. a case of if a driver is stopped, they cannot prove the driver has driven past one of the signs.

30kph coming to Dublin road near you? (note warning in post #254)

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