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30kph coming to Dublin road near you? (note warning in post #254)

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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 10,380 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    Here's an example:

    There was a plan for Merrion Gates, to grade separate the road crossing with a flyover, and provide an excellent pedestrian and cycling underpass.

    It would have: drastically improved traffic in the area with a requisite hugely positive effect on buses; allowed the DART to operate at increased speeds and perhaps eventually improved frequencies (if all other level crossings were removed); made this horrible junction much safer for people walking and cycling.

    But it was abandoned because all of these objectively incredibly positive changes for thousands of people daily were outweighed by the voices of a few local, vocal residents during the public consultation.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,810 ✭✭✭ Duckjob


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Here's an example:

    There was a plan for Merrion Gates, to grade separate the road crossing with a flyover, and provide an excellent pedestrian and cycling underpass.

    It would have: drastically improved traffic in the area with a requisite hugely positive effect on buses; allowed the DART to operate at increased speeds and perhaps eventually improved frequencies (if all other level crossings were removed); made this horrible junction much safer for people walking and cycling.

    But it was abandoned because all of these objectively incredibly positive changes for thousands of people daily were outweighed by the voices of a few local, vocal residents during the public consultation.

    I don't think its been abandoned (at least not yet) I think it was delayed so they can gather more data before deciding how to proceed, but otherwise I agree with your point - far too much attention given to a vocal minority. Similiar happened in Malahide.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,380 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    Duckjob wrote: »
    I don't think its been abandoned (at least not yet) I think it was delayed so they can gather more data before deciding how to proceed, but otherwise I agree with your point - far too much attention given to a vocal minority. Similiar happened in Malahide.

    The 30kph change hasn't been abandoned, no, what happened is that a FF councillor made an amendment to adjust some arterial routes to 40kph, but by the rules of whatever, the amendment passed, and that meant the whole thing had to go back to public consultation again.

    The councillor claims that they believed the 40kph amendment was the only way the thing would get passed, but that just raises a whole bunch of questions considering how the "Dublin Agreement" had the 30kph changes at its core.

    Can't stop politicians from chasing votes instead of making progress, I suppose.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    MJohnston wrote: »
    The 30kph change hasn't been abandoned, no, what happened is that a FF councillor made an amendment to adjust some arterial routes to 40kph, but by the rules of whatever, the amendment passed, and that meant the whole thing had to go back to public consultation again.

    The councillor claims that they believed the 40kph amendment was the only way the thing would get passed, but that just raises a whole bunch of questions considering how the "Dublin Agreement" had the 30kph changes at its core.

    Can't stop politicians from chasing votes instead of making progress, I suppose.

    I think it's a logical change, most of the 30km/h changes were completely sensible, some of the arterial roads are clearly not designed to handle 30km/h traffic, and as such any change was premature.


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,380 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    I don't know about that, to me that just sounds like the same "chicken and egg" situation we have with reducing car access to the city centre to facilitate public transport.

    I definitely agree that speed limit changes won't be effective without design changes to the relevant roads, but at the same time I'm not sure it's worth delaying the whole thing when we could lower the limits now and make the design changes as a follow-up.


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  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,390 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CatInABox


    MJohnston wrote: »
    The 30kph change hasn't been abandoned, no, what happened is that a FF councillor made an amendment to adjust some arterial routes to 40kph, but by the rules of whatever, the amendment passed, and that meant the whole thing had to go back to public consultation again.

    The councillor claims that they believed the 40kph amendment was the only way the thing would get passed, but that just raises a whole bunch of questions considering how the "Dublin Agreement" had the 30kph changes at its core.

    Can't stop politicians from chasing votes instead of making progress, I suppose.

    Minor correction, it was a FG councillor that proposed the amendment, and as he points out, the Dublin Agreement crowd mostly voted for it, so it was a cross party failure :(


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,380 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    So many little towns around Ireland ruined by that kind of layout. Just conduits for cars.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,475 ✭✭✭✭ Thelonious Monk


    MJohnston wrote: »
    So many little towns around Ireland ruined by that kind of layout. Just conduits for cars.

    It looks like every other horrible car park of an Irish town


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 44,066 CMod ✭✭✭✭ magicbastarder




  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog



    I much prefer the system they use in other European cities, I remember being in Torremolinos a few years back, there was a major construction project to install underground car parks that were built below the roadway, they would then remove surface lanes and improve the streetscape.

    I remember seeing something similar in The Netherlands, surface streets within communities were designed as low traffic routes which kept traffic speeds naturally lower, vehicle traffic and storage were hidden underground. That map of Finglas reminds me of Belfast where they used to replace damaged buildings with surface car parks.


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,999 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    MJohnston wrote: »
    Is this seriously acceptable to the mods? What's going on? Can we get a mod message to let us know if we should stop reporting these posts?

    Mods have work and life, this is voluntary and often has to wait. I understand your frustration but please do not discuss moderation in-thread in the future.

    — moderator


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,999 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    The standard of posting needs to improve on both sides — trolling isn’t allowed, everybody needs to stop focusing on what modes of transport other users use and instead focus on the points being made, and one or two word answers are rarely acceptable.

    Infractions applied, and thread cleaned up (sorry for any unrelated tweets which were deleted).

    — moderator


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 13,999 Mod ✭✭✭✭ monument


    WARNING: Thread topic is 30km/h in Dublin -- if there's nothing about speed or designing for slower speed in your post, then do not post it here.

    -- moderator


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    I'm in the midst of battle with the management company in my estate. One side of a road is managed by a different management company, they've recently implemented permit parking, within marked bays only.
    This has had a negative effect on the speed of cars passing through the estate, there is a nominal 30km/h speed limit, but there is never going to be enforcement.

    The road is approx 5.5m wide (measure tool on google maps) previously much of it's length was reduced by half due to parked vehicles, now the cars have gone, some people are using excessive speeds.
    This is exactly the type of scenario that I provided during the feedback on the DCC moves. Limits without redesign are not workable, if DCC wish to reduce speeds on the arterial routes, they need to tighten road space otherwise it will just result in ignoring the speed limit.


  • Moderators, Computer Games Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 9,390 Mod ✭✭✭✭ CatInABox


    liamog wrote: »
    I'm in the midst of battle with the management company in my estate. One side of a road is managed by a different management company, they've recently implemented permit parking, within marked bays only.
    This has had a negative effect on the speed of cars passing through the estate, there is a nominal 30km/h speed limit, but there is never going to be enforcement.

    The road is approx 5.5m wide (measure tool on google maps) previously much of it's length was reduced by half due to parked vehicles, now the cars have gone, some people are using excessive speeds.
    This is exactly the type of scenario that I provided during the feedback on the DCC moves. Limits without redesign are not workable, if DCC wish to reduce speeds on the arterial routes, they need to tighten road space otherwise it will just result in ignoring the speed limit.

    It's a bit of a chicken/egg scenario, isn't it? I believe that introducing a 30km limit will make it easier to actually push through a road diet, as they can then say "Well, the limit here is 30km, but the road encourages excessive speeding, so let's redesign the road."


  • Registered Users Posts: 10,380 ✭✭✭✭ MJohnston


    CatInABox wrote: »
    It's a bit of a chicken/egg scenario, isn't it? I believe that introducing a 30km limit will make it easier to actually push through a road diet, as they can then say "Well, the limit here is 30km, but the road encourages excessive speeding, so let's redesign the road."

    Yeah, you have to do one of those things first, and ultimately it doesn't really break anything to do the speed limit changes first. If you have to wait for road designs to be corrected everywhere, that'll essentially never happen.


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 6,444 Mod ✭✭✭✭ liamog


    I don't know, I think if you change the limit without changing the design, you end up with non compliance along with our typical lack of enforcement. Long term this just makes any limits ignorable.
    They don't even need to go full tilt on a design. Redoing the paint and installing wooden planters is enough to change the streetscape enough to reduce traffic speeds.

    The protected cycleways are a good example where the carriageway is reduced significantly and can be delivered quickly.


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