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Covid 19 Part XXII-30,360 in ROI(1,781 deaths) 8,035 in NI (568 deaths)(10/09)Read OP

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  • #2552
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,450 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's the appearance of there being a firmer approach!

    They must think people are stupid though not to relaise its pretty much the same thing as what goes on now, find a pub not complying and their asked to comply.


  • #2553
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    grumpymunster wrote: »
    You clearly didn't read even your own post - never mind.

    If you pretend that all decisions are science based then yes you do need to do a risk assessment that is a no brainer. in fact not doing them is close to criminal and economic sabotage.

    If you do not assess risk there is no datum to reference your decisions against. For example in Germany if a town's cases is > 50/100,000 population there is a localised lockdown until the figures are below 50/100,00 population upon which it reopens - that is clear and concise. What is the condition in Ireland to justify a lockdown?

    Risk assessments are just that assess the risk to manage it - you learn that in first year for Gods sake.

    Your obviously the trump/bolsonoro school of thinking.

    No point arguing with you as we have different ideologies.

    You do your risk assessments and send them into NPHET and the government.


  • #2554
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    seamus wrote: »
    We're starting to see a noticeable trend in close contact numbers since the start of August.

    There's a gradual but consistent divergence between the average and median close contact numbers. The median stays fairly static around 3-4, but the average has trended up from 4-5 at the start of August, to around 6ish last week and towards 7 this week.

    This means that while most people are still sticking to a core group of contacts, there is a small group of people who are mixing with increasingly more and more people. It might be house parties. It could also be factory outbreaks. It doesn't really matter, what it means is that there are a small number of people engaging in superspreader behaviours and having 30+ close contacts in any given two week period.

    If it is factories, then we need to be aggressively closing down any workplaces that aren't being meticulous about their procedures. If it's house parties, we need to be pushing the relevant legislation through much faster.
    We should absolutely not be rushing through any legislation giving the Gardai additional powers to enter private homes. Hopefully some of the more sensible members of the Dail can hinder any such nonsense


  • #2555
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AdamD wrote: »
    We should absolutely not be rushing through any legislation giving the Gardai additional powers to enter private homes. Hopefully some of the more sensible members of the Dail can hinder any such nonsense

    If you've nothing to hide...

    A few people who are taking advantage of our community policing model will suffer while society as a whole will gain.

    These laws will expire when this is over.

    I'm totally for it as I think the majority of society is also.

    The threat alone will put alot off throwing such parties.


  • #2556
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If you've nothing to hide...

    A few people who are taking advantage of our community policing model will suffer while society as a whole will gain.

    These laws will expire when this is over.

    I'm totally for it as I think the majority of society is also.

    The threat alone will put alot off throwing such parties.

    If you've nothing to hide is an incredibly dangerous justification for any law change


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  • #2557
    Get Real
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 953 ✭✭✭Get Real


    stephenjmcd wrote: »
    So basically the exact same as they do now, ask them to comply and they'll be back tomorrow to check.

    Absolutely no difference here so.

    Pretty big difference. At the minute, if the guards say "close the pub", and the barman says "no", there is literally no legal consequence/penalty. No power to shut it. Anyone who does shut is out of goodwill/threat of objections when renewing the liquor licence.

    Now, the pub can be closed straight away, for a day. And a fine of up to 2.5k.

    Repeated offences/openings would see a court order being made to close for a month. That's a lot of trade. Compared to just coming back and checking the next day.

    There's actually power to close a pub now, whereas there never was before. Horse before cart stuff. Govt bringing in something and not giving any tools to enforce it, bar mutual agreement.


  • #2558
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    AdamD wrote: »
    If you've nothing to hide is an incredibly dangerous justification for any law change

    To the people that have something to hide....

    Police was invented to protect the majority from the minority.

    Difficult situations call for tougher solutions.

    Bring it on...


  • #2559
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    The heart side of things is massively understudied. Saying doom mongered or being positive doesn't make it go away. Hopefully more studies will come out and we can actually make a statement of fact on it.

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1299074845905317893?s=20


  • #2560
    grumpymunster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭grumpymunster


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Your obviously the trump/bolsonoro school of thinking.

    No point arguing with you as we have different ideologies.

    You do your risk assessments and send them into NPHET and the government.

    Ha ha so advocating relying on hard data and facts is Trump school of thinking. That is brilliant. Love it cheered me up no end - I have never been compared to him before so a first as well 😂😂😂


  • #2561
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    AdamD wrote: »
    We should absolutely not be rushing through any legislation giving the Gardai additional powers to enter private homes. Hopefully some of the more sensible members of the Dail can hinder any such nonsense
    It's more likely to be an extension of existing legislation under the Health Act, which the Dail has already voted on.


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  • #2562
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,450 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    is_that_so wrote: »
    It's more likely to be an extension of existing legislation under the Health Act, which the Dail has already voted on.

    Any change in relation to private homes requires a vote in the Dáil so long as the AG decides its constitutional and there is still a big question mark on that.

    Was discussed previously when this stuff was originally announced that it would require a vote.

    Likewise the new powers for Gardai are also required to be brought before the Dáil next Wednesday

    "The Oireachtas is likely to move promptly to grant gardaí these powers and it will top the legislative agenda when the Dáil resumes on Wednesday. "


  • #2563
    political analyst
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,957 ✭✭✭political analyst


    The prospect of another lockdown was discussed on Prime Time last night.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ab-nywWzjYI&feature=emb_title


    Does it not occur to Stephen Donnelly and Professor Gerry Killeen that a second lockdown would mean less tax revenue and thus less money for the health service?

    The PPE problem has been resolved. Therefore, nursing-home residents are much better protected against a possible second wave than they were during the outbreak that took place earlier this year.


  • #2564
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    grumpymunster wrote: »
    Ha ha so advocating relying on hard data and facts is Trump school of thinking. That is brilliant. Love it cheered me up no end - I have never been compared to him before so a first as well ������

    I'd say you have..

    From your views and given you support Chelsea FC.

    They are hardly known as left leaning in ideology.

    Donal Mcintyre documentary shone a light on many of its supporters right wing attitudes. :pac::pac:

    Spout your right wing ideologies to someone else..


  • #2565
    podgeandrodge
    Site Banned Posts: 5,975 ✭✭✭podgeandrodge


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    The heart side of things is massively understudied. Saying doom mongered or being positive doesn't make it go away. Hopefully more studies will come out and we can actually make a statement of fact on it.

    https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status/1299074845905317893?s=20

    At this stage, with everything being done to supress Covid, perhaps there is sweet feck all can be done about what other things might happen if you get it. It is what it is.

    I think the majority of the population are getting slowly closer to let it rip mentality. Only so many months of this that many will be happy to suffer with. Not saying it's not worth it for the moment, but there is a time limit.

    Now masks - it's becoming more and more apparent to me anyway (though I am semi-cynical on their use except in very confined spaces like public transport), that half the population is now wearing them around their chins when going between various shops etc. The amount of fidgeting and touching of mouth and nose going on has to be far far in excess of the "everyone touches their faces" before masks. Protecting others maybe, but infecting oneself must now be happening. Ahh - that's the increased cases :pac:


  • #2566
    stephenjmcd
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,450 ✭✭✭✭stephenjmcd


    AdamD wrote: »
    We should absolutely not be rushing through any legislation giving the Gardai additional powers to enter private homes. Hopefully some of the more sensible members of the Dail can hinder any such nonsense
    Big distinction here as I've mentioned previously.

    Summed up well by Gavin Reilly, all well and good saying their banned but then not giving Gardai any actual powers because well they can't essentially.

    Anyway most news outlets reporting only the restaurant/pub powers are being discussed today

    https://twitter.com/gavreilly/status/1299253680680718336?s=19


  • #2567
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,007 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Deleted User wrote: »
    To the people that have something to hide....

    Police was invented to protect the majority from the minority.

    Difficult situations call for tougher solutions.

    Bring it on...

    Many of the majority objected to Peel's modern police.

    They were kept unarmed as a compromise.

    They were given limited powers as a compromise.

    Those were the conditions under which the majority accepted them.

    We can't have the guards wandering into our homes. Did you forget the Morris Tribunal? Or the guard who shared video of a naked woman who then went on to commit suicide? Or the McCabe whistleblower case?


  • #2568
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,007 ✭✭✭growleaves


    Garda scandals: Force dogged by controversy over number of decades


  • #2569
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    growleaves wrote: »
    Many of the majority objected to Peel's modern police.

    They were kept unarmed as a compromise.

    They were given limited powers as a compromise.

    Those were the conditions under which the majority accepted them.

    Only an idiot would allow the guards to wander into their home. Did you forget the Morris Tribunal? Or the guard who shared video of a naked woman who then went on to commit suicide? Or the McCabe whistleblower case?

    So your calling people idiots who disagree with you?

    It's a worldwide pandemic. People will accept more censor at this time. The government are already restricting our lives more and telling us what to do more given the grave situation in our country at present. This is just another restriction of our freedoms for the greater good. Its not some great conspiracy to become a police state. Stop reading into things more than it is. The same thing is happening throughout the world to control this virus. The government is not out to get you.


  • #2570
    grumpymunster
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,604 ✭✭✭grumpymunster


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I'd say you have..

    From your views and given you support Chelsea FC.

    They are hardly known as left leaning in ideology.

    Donal Mcintyre documentary shown a light on many of its supporters right wing attitudes. :pac::pac:

    Spout your right wing ideologies to someone else..

    This is a thread for serious discussion regarding Covid not a 20 year old dubious documentary. I have been accused of many things right wing has never been one.
    You clearly dislike anyone disagreeing with your point of view or applying logic so be it


  • #2571
    JDD
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,580 ✭✭✭JDD


    The amount of fidgeting and touching of mouth and nose going on has to be far far in excess of the "everyone touches their faces" before masks. Protecting others maybe, but infecting oneself must now be happening. Ahh - that's the increased cases

    Honestly I don't think there's a huge amount of people being infected by picking it up off surfaces on their fingers and then infecting themselves from fiddling with their mask.

    There is a method for taking on and off a mask in a hospital setting because you are surrounded by people who are positively sick and lots of sick people have touched a lot of surfaces in the building you spend 12 hours a day in. The mask is to protect you from them, and clearly the benefit would be somewhat negated if you took the mask off while brushing your eyes or lips with contaminated hands.

    The purpose of cloth/disposible masks in the public at large is to protect others from you. Yes, there's a tiny chance that you will pick it off a surface and transfer it to your mouth when lifting a mask from your chin to your face, but prevention of airbourne virus shedding vastly vastly outweighs the risk of taking on or off a mask incorrectly.


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  • #2572
    ACitizenErased
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,757 ✭✭✭✭ACitizenErased


    The new covid app update is fantastic, lots more information available on it


  • #2573
    growleaves
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,007 ✭✭✭growleaves


    So your calling people idiots who disagree with you?

    I apologise for that, sorry, I've edited my post.
    It's a worldwide pandemic. People will accept more censor at this time. The government are already restricting our lives more and telling us what to do more given the grave situation in our country at present. This is just another restriction of our freedoms for the greater good. Its not some great conspiracy to become a police state. Stop reading into things more than it is. The same thing is happening throughout the world to control this virus.

    There have been multiple worldwide pandemics over the decades and centuries. It isn't a justification for repealing the rights of property owners. I'm not 'reading' anything into it, I'm objecting to it as is. Its inherently bad and wrong, for obvious reasons.

    James Connolly detailed in his writing how Irish people objected to soldiers entering their homes. Any biography of Peel or history of modern policing will detail a raft of objections from MPs and ordinary people to police being given too much power.

    Up until the historical equivalent of two seconds ago, Garda corruption was a big concern for everyone in the country. Before a 'worldwide pandemic' became an all-purpose excuse for anything and everything.


  • #2574
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    grumpymunster wrote: »
    This is a thread for serious discussion regarding Covid not a 20 year old dubious documentary. I have been accused of many things right wing has never been one.
    You clearly dislike anyone disagreeing with your point of view or applying logic so be it

    All your views appear to be right wing.

    Serious discussion?

    Risk assessment for ploughing championship attended by over 100,000 each day last year.

    You mentioned the ploughing championship where 100s of thousands attend, when we only ever had 200 spectators at a football match in the last 5 months, which was then removed.

    Do you think the old and vulnerable are talking about the ploughing championship?

    That's why I think you are right wing.

    This discussion is over and has been for a while.


  • #2575
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    85 new cases in NI

    https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1299333645250048006?s=20


  • #2576
    What Username Guidelines
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,139 ✭✭✭What Username Guidelines


    Another example of reinfection

    25 year old with no underlying conditions, tested positive, recovered in about a month and had 2 negative tests. Reinfected with a different viral genome, but this time req'd hospitalisation and oxygen.

    https://twitter.com/VirusesImmunity/status/1299342270177726464?s=20


  • #2577
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    85 new cases in NI

    https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1299333645250048006?s=20

    That's bad.

    Restrictions are very loose up there by all accounts.

    No enforcement of the food and drink element in restaurants.


  • #2578
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    podgeandrodge wrote: »
    At this stage, with everything being done to supress Covid, perhaps there is sweet feck all can be done about what other things might happen if you get it. It is what it is.

    I think the majority of the population are getting slowly closer to let it rip mentality. Only so many months of this that many will be happy to suffer with. Not saying it's not worth it for the moment, but there is a time limit.

    Now masks - it's becoming more and more apparent to me anyway (though I am semi-cynical on their use except in very confined spaces like public transport), that half the population is now wearing them around their chins when going between various shops etc. The amount of fidgeting and touching of mouth and nose going on has to be far far in excess of the "everyone touches their faces" before masks. Protecting others maybe, but infecting oneself must now be happening. Ahh - that's the increased cases :pac:

    I was in a large shop today. I'd say that there were around thirty shoppers plus staff. Only a couple of shoppers were not wearing masks. Of all those that were wearing masks only one had it covering both their mouth and nose... Me. What an irony, as I don't believe that they should be mandatory.


  • #2579
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    85 new cases in NI

    https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1299333645250048006?s=20

    What's the hospital situation?


  • #2580
    TonyMaloney
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,150 ✭✭✭TonyMaloney


    polesheep wrote: »
    What's the hospital situation?

    I believe they have a number of them


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  • #2581
    polesheep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,950 ✭✭✭polesheep


    TonyMaloney wrote: »
    I believe they have a number of them

    But obviously the number of Covid patients in them doesn't suit your narrative. Hence the smart arse answer.


This discussion has been closed.
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