Is it just me or have SF vanished?

Superfoods · 26-08-2020 11:39AM

maccored wrote: »

the brits - who ruled the place at the time - viewed them as illegal. Really, all the south did was sell out the north for their own peace. You obviously didnt live in the north during the conflict. many, many people I knew supported them. You hadnt a clue what was going on at the time im sure anyway.

The IRA could not have existed without public support. thats a fact you wont get around no matter how your fantasise it

I lived in the North. Many many many people didn't support them. They had no mandate from the majority. Especially in the 80/90/2000's but they continued as is.

So a few supported them you think the few are more important to the many?

maccored · 26-08-2020 11:41AM

Superfoods wrote: »

I lived in the North. Many many many people didn't support them. They had no mandate from the majority. Especially in the 80/90/2000's but they continued as is.

So a few supported them you think the few are more important to the many?

you lived in a completely different place than me then. where i was born, the IRA were needed as the RUC were a bit ****. I bet you were one of the ones on the orange days blocking the roads.

markodaly · 26-08-2020 11:41AM

maccored wrote: »

If I dont like them dont vote for them? I dont vote for FF or FG and you dont see me starting threads about them - so I dont really get your point there

Again, you didn't answer the question. There are more busy threads about FG and the government on this forum. Are you going to hold those posters to your own high standard?

The IRA existed because they had to, now they dont. No-one would want them back again and no-one would ever decide a conflict like what happened was great fun so lets do it again. That kind of thinking is incredibly stupid.

The IRA still exists, its called the New IRA. Is that something you support, as the answer to that blows your argument out of the water.

maccored · 26-08-2020 11:43AM

markodaly wrote: »

Again, you didn't answer the question. There are more busy threads about FG and the government on this forum. Are you going to hold those posters to your own high standard?

The IRA still exists, its called the New IRA. Is that something you support, as the answer to that blows your argument out of the water.

you are saying people cant give out about the government? hahahahaha

Im saying why are you whinging about SF constantly? they arent in government, nothing they do affects you, yet here you are, talking about them all day.

On the other hand, its quite right people can complain about those who are running the country for them

markodaly · 26-08-2020 11:47AM

maccored wrote: »

you are saying people cant give out about the government? hahahahaha

No, not saying that at all.

I am saying that your own attempts to shut down a debate in regards SF rings hollow when its clear you don't hold other posters or thread to the same high standard you demand here.

Im saying why are you whinging about SF constantly? they arent in government, nothing they do affects you, yet here you are, talking about them all day.

They arent in government? How paritionist of you!

maccored · 26-08-2020 11:48AM

markodaly wrote: »

The IRA still exists, its called the New IRA. Is that something you support, as the answer to that blows your argument out of the water.

How can my answer to if I support the New IRA (which I dont), blow my contention that people dont do these things for the fun of it?

The people in the New IRA disagreed with the GFA - like the DUP did, except they backtracked when they realised it was the only way to retain power. the New IRA dont exist for the craic of it. they exist because those people dont trust the british government.

I don't disagree with the GFA so I have a different viewpoint that the New IRA. If there was no GFA and things were as bad in the north, then that might be different - but the reality is there is a GFA and thats all people like me wanted - a political say.

There wasnt much of a political path to follow before the GFA for nationalists in the north. You'd know all this if you didnt spend all your time posting about sf on boards

maccored · 26-08-2020 11:50AM

markodaly wrote: »

No, not saying that at all.

I am saying that your own attempts to shut down a debate in regards SF rings hollow when its clear you don't hold other posters or thread to the same high standard you demand here.

'you don't hold other posters or thread to the same high standard you demand here' ... by criticising the two parties that are in government?

You ARE saying that

They arent in government? How paritionist of you!

SF arent in government. they are in government in the north, which is a different jurisdiction. Give up the comedy - its not working for you

blanch152 · 26-08-2020 11:54AM

maccored wrote: »

you are saying people cant give out about the government? hahahahaha

Im saying why are you whinging about SF constantly? they arent in government, nothing they do affects you, yet here you are, talking about them all day.

On the other hand, its quite right people can complain about those who are running the country for them

People can complain about what they want to complain about.

Not a surprise though that supporters of a fascist-like party like Sinn Fein want to shut down discussion. The Nazi party rose to power in the early 1930s in the same sort of way, by suppressing criticism of their policies in favour of all-out attack on whoever was in government and whatever they did. I am not saying that Sinn Fein are as evil as the Nazis, but the tactics to seek power - populist opposition to everything a government proposes together with a complete absence of practical solutions - are eerily similar.

Sean.3516 · 26-08-2020 11:55AM

maccored wrote: »

ah cop on - either both are 'terrorists' or neither are. stop trying to have your cake and eat it. at the time the Dail was classed as illegal by the brits (1919) so technically the IRA were as illegal then as later.

The hypocrisy on here is astounding.

Yes, both were illegal under British rule but the Republican position post-1916 was that the Irish Republic existed and it was simply a matter of securing its existence from an occupying force. So from Dail Eireann's position they were its legitimate army. You had two separate authorities claiming to be the legitimate rulers of Ireland at that time. Deciding which one was the true authority meant fighting a war. The result of that war was a compromise that meant the Irish Republic being reorganised into the Irish Free State and the IRA becoming the Free State Army.

Yes, the Provos like the Old IRA were illegal in the eyes of the British. But unlike the Old IRA, Dail Eireann never adopted them in an official capacity. They were solo actors. They had no legitimacy.

If you believe that things like democratic consent matter at all, you have to recognise this distinction

markodaly · 26-08-2020 11:57AM

SF arent in government. they are in government in the north,

Ouch!

maccored · 26-08-2020 11:59AM

Sean.3516 wrote: »

Yes, both were illegal under British rule but the Republican position post-1916 was that the Irish Republic existed and it was simply a matter of securing its existence from an occupying force. So from Dail Eireann's position they were its legitimate army. You had two separate authorities claiming to be the legitimate rulers of Ireland at that time. Deciding which one was the true authority meant fighting a war. The result of that war was a compromise that meant the Irish Republic being reorganised into the Irish Free State and the IRA becoming the Free State Army.

Yes, the Provos like the Old IRA were illegal in the eyes of the British. But unlike the Old IRA, Dail Eireann never adopted them in an official capacity. They were solo actors. They had no legitimacy.

If you believe that things like democratic consent matter at all, you have to recognise this distinction

Britain ruled ireland, the IRA of old were illegal. they killed people. they killed civilians. if you believe people saying a grouping is legal, then that makes it ok to kill, then you are really missing the point. Its either morally something you can stand behind or not. when it came to both versions, they had no other choice in their times. That has changed since the GFA - which is why the likes of the dissidents arent supported by many of those who might have supported other versions of the IRA.

But - to say one was 'right' and the other was 'wrong' is just silly talk.

maccored · 26-08-2020 12:00PM

markodaly wrote: »

Ouch!

whats your issue with that?

maccored · 26-08-2020 12:01PM

blanch152 wrote: »

People can complain about what they want to complain about.

Not a surprise though that supporters of a fascist-like party like Sinn Fein want to shut down discussion. The Nazi party rose to power in the early 1930s in the same sort of way, by suppressing criticism of their policies in favour of all-out attack on whoever was in government and whatever they did. I am not saying that Sinn Fein are as evil as the Nazis, but the tactics to seek power - populist opposition to everything a government proposes together with a complete absence of practical solutions - are eerily similar.

course they can complain, but they shouldnt complain about the number of SF threads etc etc when they are creating them themselves.

I done history for my O and A levels. Theres no similarity between SF and the Nazis. FG mind you - thats a different story

markodaly · 26-08-2020 12:02PM

maccored wrote: »

whats your issue with that?

What you wrote was an oxymoron.

You stated both a non-truth and a contradictory truth in the very same sentence. Impressive actually.

tikkahunter · 26-08-2020 12:03PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0826/1161323-victims-tweet-troubles/

Just say what you want , remove it and move on . Then repeat.

markodaly · 26-08-2020 12:04PM

maccored wrote: »

The people in the New IRA disagreed with the GFA - like the DUP did, except they backtracked when they realised it was the only way to retain power. the New IRA dont exist for the craic of it. they exist because those people dont trust the british government.

Yet you claimed there was no IRA but then admit that there actually is an IRA... so which is it?

maccored · 26-08-2020 12:05PM

markodaly wrote: »

What you wrote was an oxymoron.

You stated both a non-truth and a contradictory truth in the very same sentence. Impressive actually.

so sf arent in government in the north then? or no, they are in power here? which is incorrect because you seem to think one of them is.

maccored · 26-08-2020 12:06PM

markodaly wrote: »

Yet you claimed there was no IRA but then admit that there actually is an IRA... so which is it?

I claimed there was no IRA (the provos dont exist) but then there is an IRA (the New IRA)?

Are you on drugs mark? Seriously? Can you please explain your bit of waffling there as I cant make head nor tail of it

maccored · 26-08-2020 12:09PM

tikkahunter wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0826/1161323-victims-tweet-troubles/

Just say what you want , remove it and move on . Then repeat.

In a tweet that was later deleted, the former MEP said that the pensions were mainly for those who fought Britain's "dirty war" in Ireland and mainly for those involved in collusion.

She might have a bit of a point there. Im sure those working for the RUC in the loyalist death squads will get the pension. if thats the case so should everyone else involved. either make it that only innocent, non involved civillians get it, or that everyone does.

Truthvader · 26-08-2020 12:09PM

JohnnyFlash wrote: »

Pretty grim stuff from Anderson, but what would you expect? It’s more of the hierarchy of victimhood that’s so ingrained in their culture. Some fücking sociopathic killer from the PIRA ranks is deemed more suitable for compensation in their eyes than the thousands of people left maimed, disfigured, and psychologically scarred as a result of atrocities carried out by their armed wing.

What a depressing tweet. What a grim party.

Just googled the lovely Martina. As expected, the usual history of bombing and IRA thuggery. A miserable useless person.

tikkahunter · 26-08-2020 12:19PM

maccored wrote: »

She might have a bit of a point there. Im sure those working for the RUC in the loyalist death squads will get the pension. if thats the case so should everyone else involved. either make it that only innocent, non involved civillians get it, or that everyone does.

Thought the Northern Ireland Ra pension was the taxi and taxi licenses they all got handed out.

Sean.3516 · 26-08-2020 12:24PM

maccored wrote: »

dont like them, dont vote for them. If they are as terrible as you make out no-one will vote for them.

I find it hilarious when people cite election results as evidence that a party must be good or bad. Winning an election simply means that you're popular.

There's no reason to assume a party is good or right just because it's popular. Hitler and Mussolini were both democratically elected.

smurgen · 26-08-2020 12:29PM

blanch152 wrote: »

People can complain about what they want to complain about.

Not a surprise though that supporters of a fascist-like party like Sinn Fein want to shut down discussion. The Nazi party rose to power in the early 1930s in the same sort of way, by suppressing criticism of their policies in favour of all-out attack on whoever was in government and whatever they did. I am not saying that Sinn Fein are as evil as the Nazis, but the tactics to seek power - populist opposition to everything a government proposes together with a complete absence of practical solutions - are eerily similar.

Jesus wept. You've descended into Alex Jones territory. Head gone from deflection.

zoobizoo · 26-08-2020 12:29PM

tikkahunter wrote: »

Thought the Northern Ireland Ra pension was the taxi and taxi licenses they all got handed out.

And the Northern Bank money..

smurgen · 26-08-2020 12:33PM

maccored wrote: »

course they can complain, but they shouldnt complain about the number of SF threads etc etc when they are creating them themselves.

I done history for my O and A levels. Theres no similarity between SF and the Nazis. FG mind you - thats a different story

Yep. It's not like their councillors openly supported fascists/Nazis....oh wait.

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/fine-gael-councillor-defends-tweet-where-he-expressed-love-for-nazi-style-salute-picture-39272444.html

maccored · 26-08-2020 01:10PM

Sean.3516 wrote: »

I find it hilarious when people cite election results as evidence that a party must be good or bad. Winning an election simply means that you're popular.

There's no reason to assume a party is good or right just because it's popular. Hitler and Mussolini were both democratically elected.

whats your point? My point is if they're popular people will vote for them. if they are terribly unpopular (as SF should be if they are what this thread says they are) then no-one will vote for them.

Either way, theres too many pretending to hate SF but instead advertise them all the time (blanch152, mark etc etc)

maccored · 26-08-2020 01:11PM

tikkahunter wrote: »

Thought the Northern Ireland Ra pension was the taxi and taxi licenses they all got handed out.

what has you making things up go to do with this thread?

26-08-2020 01:14PM

maccored wrote: »

whats your point? My point is if they're popular people will vote for them. if they are terribly unpopular (as SF should be if they are what this thread says they are) then no-one will vote for them.

Either way, theres too many pretending to hate SF but instead advertise them all the time (blanch152, mark etc etc)

So Berlusconi, Thrump, Maduro etc are / were all good leaders because they are/ were popular?

maccored · 26-08-2020 01:17PM

jh79 wrote: »

So Berlusconi, Thrump, Maduro etc are / were all good leaders because they are/ were popular?

what? How the hell are you getting that from the conversation?

MORE WHATABOUTERY!!!!

I suggest you start by reading the post that was in reply to.

blanch152 · 26-08-2020 01:26PM

maccored wrote: »

I claimed there was no IRA (the provos dont exist) but then there is an IRA (the New IRA)?

Are you on drugs mark? Seriously? Can you please explain your bit of waffling there as I cant make head nor tail of it

It is funny how the evolutionary theory of republicanism which sees the bearer of the light being handed down from Wolfe Tone to Padraic Pearse to Gerry Adams dies out when the new IRA get mentioned.

Is it just me or have SF vanished?

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