Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings

odyssey06 · 25-08-2020 11:51AM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

Now the new reason why we can never return to normal gets rolled out. People apparently get reinfected. Surprise surprise it behaves like other coronaviruses. Of course the message is distancing and hand washing and masks and everything may stay with us for a long long time - possibly for the foreseeable future - forever?
Time to call it day. Protect the vulnerable and the fearful, watch the ICU numbers but basically snap out of it.

Your post is a bit confusing.
Are you saying distancing, handwashing and masks should stay and everything else go?
Or everything goes?

You're going to have to explain what you mean by protect the vulnerable, at the moment it's just a slogan.
Or quantify who the vulnerable are, it's not just the over 80s.

And I don't know what you mean by protect the 'fearful' but it sounds like nonsense. I think you might mean assuage the concerns of those worried about the virus. Which is why you need to spell it out and not sloganise it.

completedit · 25-08-2020 11:53AM

Limpy wrote: »

But my granny has 4 months to live what if she get it? Totally not fair that your not thinking of her. I bet you never had a granny.

What?? you want her to spend the rest of her life in isolation? Again not fair, we put her into a nursing home 10 years ago so we could raise our own kids, so now you think she should be Isolated again. What about our fortnightly visits?

Hahahah

nannerbenahs · 25-08-2020 12:24PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

The death toll is still rising.
My point needs no excuse.
This virus has not run its course therefore any comparison with the deaths from other viruses needs to bear that in mind.

And is it possible for a death toll to decrease then?

CalamariFritti · 25-08-2020 12:25PM

@ odyssey06 You're right of course. Just dont have time for more than a slogan. Have to do actual work every now and then.

...

I dont agree with making fun of vulnerable people or people concerned for their vulnerable family members.

But we need to stop looking for reasons why we should escalate or even keep going like this. We need to start looking for a way out of this that doesnt involve a silver bullet magic cure. There won't be one.

CalamariFritti · 25-08-2020 12:26PM

nannerbenahs wrote: »

And is it possible for a death toll to decrease then?

Well wait for when the dead start coming back.

LuckyLloyd · 25-08-2020 01:08PM

nannerbenahs wrote: »

It´s the new paradigm .. to replace the ´´war on terror´´ we now have the ´´war on death´´ a new paradigm of ´´BIOSECURITY´´
designed to give the global elite total control of the human herd. Read the WHO´s own literature and you will see this. The agenda here is a million times more sinister than people realise.
A look at the face of wHO´s Irish senior executive Michael Ryan as he glibly declared months ago that authorities will really need to enter family homes and ´´remove´´ infected people (positive cases with no symptoms?) should Wake up people!! Soon it will be too late to stop this craziness.
Check out https://www.corbettreport.com and you will get all the references for research that government lackeys certainly don´t want you to digest.
Why should we trust anything coming from the World Health Organisation, an institution that has shown itself to be completely corrupt so many times before, like when they decllared the fake Swine flu pandemic 2009/10, where countries around the world spent countless billions on a totally unnecessary vaccine. most were dumped. On the WHO website 2009 in April, the definition of a pandemic required huge numbers of deaths and illness: in May one month before the Swine flu pandemic was announced, this reference to death numbers and illnesses was conveniently removed. By December the same year Ms Chan then directer of WHO admitted she had still not taken her shot. Surprise surprise.
The executive of WHO has many members with ties to big pharma, and after the Swine flu scandal, the oficial ´´independent´´enquiry had to be abandoned because the director of the said ´´independent´´ enquiry was himself compromised by the same connections.

The great thing about this thread is it gives us a window into what a poisoned social media feed must look like. Imagine your facebook or twitter feed being this sort of conspiracy theory nonsense over and over and over?

odyssey06 · 25-08-2020 01:56PM

CalamariFritti wrote: »

@ odyssey06 You're right of course. Just dont have time for more than a slogan. Have to do actual work every now and then.
I dont agree with making fun of vulnerable people or people concerned for their vulnerable family members.
But we need to stop looking for reasons why we should escalate or even keep going like this. We need to start looking for a way out of this that doesnt involve a silver bullet magic cure. There won't be one.

Sound

I'm not sure if vaccine falls into the category of 'silver magic bullet cure', but when the recent posts on this thread prompted me to look up the Asian flu and Hong Kong flu it was remarkable that it seemed to take a vaccine to bring both pandemics to a conclusion.

nannerbenahs · 25-08-2020 02:44PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The great thing about this thread is it gives us a window into what a poisoned social media feed must look like. Imagine your facebook or twitter feed being this sort of conspiracy theory nonsense over and over and over?

I notice that you have contributed here for a long time. 14 years to be precise. That´s over 5000 days and an astonishing average outpouring of approximately seven posts per day. I hesitate to calculate the enormous number of hours spent hunched over a laptop.
It would be interesting to read your trove of stock comments dismissing all those nasty ´´Conspiracy theorists´´ over the years.
I would probably start with 9.11, where we all now know that the most incredible and ridiculous´´conspiracy theory´´ is actually the official version of that event.

Assetbacked · 25-08-2020 03:04PM

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

The great thing about this thread is it gives us a window into what a poisoned social media feed must look like. Imagine your facebook or twitter feed being this sort of conspiracy theory nonsense over and over and over?

Another anti-relaxer who likes to lazily lump any anti-establishment approach as being loopy or tinfoil hat, conveniently ignoring the fact that this thread has so many official data sources cited to lead to the opinions we are offering. One or two headcases does not define the thread and, as the poster above alludes to, your ignorance in this regard can likely be framed in a keyboard warrior type context.

25-08-2020 04:21PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Another anti-relaxer who likes to lazily lump any anti-establishment approach as being loopy or tinfoil hat, conveniently ignoring the fact that this thread has so many official data sources cited to lead to the opinions we are offering. One or two headcases does not define the thread and, as the poster above alludes to, your ignorance in this regard can likely be framed in a keyboard warrior type context.

You have no idea how many times I have been laughed at by friends, family and online for suggesting that Covid is a mild illness with a low death rate. Along the way, I have heard many times...

Covid is a deadly disease
Up to 100000 Irish could die, millions globally
Covid is a threat to our very existence
Covid has long term health affects - Brain, heart, lungs etc
Covid causes loss of limbs
Lockdown is the only reason bodies didn't pile up in the streets

All of the data and stats are available and staring at us in the face.
Very few deaths over the last 6 weeks. 22 in hospital. 5 in ICU.
Only 5 in the entire country!!!

And cases have been rising since mid July. We've had days of 200 cases. Why are they not all seriously sick?

The death rate is not accurate. We have admitted to overstating the deaths already. We also include terminally ill people as Covid deaths. And test people that pass away to see if we can include them in the death figures.

For such a mild illness, why have we crashed our economy?
Why do we continue to do so?

At what point do we accept that we have to press on and accept that some people will get sick and some might even die.

And you just know that they'll all distance themselves from it when we are dealing with a collapsed economy. NPHET will say they were only ever an advisory board. Government will say they delegated to the experts and followed health advise.

The Belly · 25-08-2020 04:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You have no idea how many times I have been laughed at by friends, family and online for suggesting that Covid is a mild illness with a low death rate. Along the way, I have heard many times...

Covid is a deadly disease
Up to 100000 Irish could die, millions globally
Covid is a threat to our very existence
Covid has long term health affects - Brain, heart, lungs etc
Covid causes loss of limbs
Lockdown is the only reason bodies didn't pile up in the streets

All of the data and stats are available and staring at us in the face.
Very few deaths over the last 6 weeks. 22 in hospital. 5 in ICU.
Only 5 in the entire country!!!

And cases have been rising since mid July. We've had days of 200 cases. Why are they not all seriously sick?

The death rate is not accurate. We have admitted to overstating the deaths already. We also include terminally ill people as Covid deaths. And test people that pass away to see if we can include them in the death figures.

For such a mild illness, why have we crashed our economy?
Why do we continue to do so?

At what point do we accept that we have to press on and accept that some people will get sick and some might even die.

And you just know that they'll all distance themselves from it when we are dealing with a collapsed economy. NPHET will say they were only ever an advisory board. Government will say they delegated to the experts and followed health advise.

It monopoly with a get out of jail free card. Win win regardless for both the government and NPHET.

walus · 25-08-2020 05:46PM

It is always easier to see the obvious and visible consequences of decision making, and not the invisible and less obvious ones for which one needs to employ second-order thinking. Those unseen consequences can be and often are far more meaningful. The way the whole strategy of the government was portrayed in mass media is appalling really. They have shown the government actions with only positive and immediate consequences and have failed to address the negative and invisible long term outcomes. Decisions of this government will come with a net cost to the society.

Not a lot of people know that during the first 3 months after the 9/11 attacks on World Trade Center in which around 2,500 people were directly killed, almost 1,000 more died as silent victims of the terrorists. People became very afraid of flying (even though from a statistical point of view another event like that occurring right after the first has extremely low probability levels) and traveled by road instead, which bears much greater risk of death. Those victims and their families, contrary to the victims and families who suffered directly from the attack on WTC, received no support or recognition.

I can only hope that there are some brave men and women in this country for whom journalism is a craft as much as it is a duty. We need someone to investigate and report on the other side of this decision making calamity. On those people who similarly to the indirect victims of terrorist attacks were too afraid to go and seek treatment, or those for whom that treatment was suspended, their families and friends, and those who suffered domestic abuse and many many more . Those people deserve at least that.

growleaves · 25-08-2020 06:12PM

I can only hope that there are some brave men and women in this country for whom journalism is a craft as much as it is a duty.

You have a future in comedy walus.

You're better off to hope that people develop the courage and desire to exit the media-distortion bubble and start making evaluations based on their own intuition and experience.

Lundstram · 25-08-2020 06:18PM

No deaths again today, I recall a lot of posters on here two weeks ago spouting “wait a week or two and you’ll see deaths”. “Give it time”.

Deadly virus my arse.

walus · 25-08-2020 06:19PM

growleaves wrote: »

You have a future in comedy walus.

You're better off to hope that people develop the courage and desire to exit the media-distortion bubble and start making evaluations based on their own intuition and experience.

Being pragmatic and leaving comedy aside, I think that the chances of some outliers growing a pair an doing a bit of good old fashion journalism are far greater than the majority of population trusting their own logic instead of that of the government. Once you add fear factor to the equation of live most people become unable to think and decide for themselves. They prefer to trust the “experts”.

lee_baby_simms · 25-08-2020 06:39PM

walus wrote: »

Being pragmatic and leaving comedy aside, I think that the chances of some outliers growing a pair an doing a bit of good old fashion journalism are far greater than the majority of population trusting their own logic instead of that of the government. Once you add fear factor to the equation of live most people become unable to think and decide for themselves. They prefer to trust the “experts”.

Most journalists write with an implied moral and intellectual superiority, To my mind there are many posters on here who are better at parsing the numbers and reading between the lines than what you read from professionals.

The worst kind of journalist is one who arrogantly believes he/she can control the narrative, often via official back channels.

I think we’re slowly creeping towards a tipping point. 6 weeks after schools open and the sky hasn’t fallen in i think there may be enough groundswell for the public legitimately question “the expert advice” and the collateral damage it’s causing.

Assetbacked · 25-08-2020 07:13PM

Lundstram wrote: »

No deaths again today, I recall a lot of posters on here two weeks ago spouting “wait a week or two and you’ll see deaths”. “Give it time”.

Deadly virus my arse.

92:0

The more new cases the more we approach a 0% case fatality rate is what it looks like from the data. It is pure ignorance to argue we have not been completely out of the woods since early May.

end of the road · 25-08-2020 07:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You have no idea how many times I have been laughed at by friends, family and online for suggesting that Covid is a mild illness with a low death rate. Along the way, I have heard many times...

Covid is a deadly disease
Up to 100000 Irish could die, millions globally
Covid is a threat to our very existence
Covid has long term health affects - Brain, heart, lungs etc
Covid causes loss of limbs
Lockdown is the only reason bodies didn't pile up in the streets

All of the data and stats are available and staring at us in the face.
Very few deaths over the last 6 weeks. 22 in hospital. 5 in ICU.
Only 5 in the entire country!!!

And cases have been rising since mid July. We've had days of 200 cases. Why are they not all seriously sick?

The death rate is not accurate. We have admitted to overstating the deaths already. We also include terminally ill people as Covid deaths. And test people that pass away to see if we can include them in the death figures.

For such a mild illness, why have we crashed our economy?
Why do we continue to do so?

At what point do we accept that we have to press on and accept that some people will get sick and some might even die.

And you just know that they'll all distance themselves from it when we are dealing with a collapsed economy. NPHET will say they were only ever an advisory board. Government will say they delegated to the experts and followed health advise.

our economy is fine, it is going to regrow itself and it has mostly been working throughout covid with only the minority luxury elements and some others where working from home wasn't possible, closed down to suppress the virus so we could reopen and manage the virus.
we excepted right from the start that there would be deaths, the restrictions and all else are to keep deaths low and keep the economy working, if we did things your way no doubt there would be no economy what soever and god knows how many deaths.
it's as simple as this, your way lost because it wasn't viable and you are just going to have to deal with that reality.
if you propagate nonsense then people are going to laugh and ridicule, there is a way to solve that issue.

MadYaker · 25-08-2020 07:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You have no idea how many times I have been laughed at by friends, family and online for suggesting that Covid is a mild illness with a low death rate. Along the way, I have heard many times...

Covid is a deadly disease
Up to 100000 Irish could die, millions globally
Covid is a threat to our very existence
Covid has long term health affects - Brain, heart, lungs etc
Covid causes loss of limbs
Lockdown is the only reason bodies didn't pile up in the streets

All of the data and stats are available and staring at us in the face.
Very few deaths over the last 6 weeks. 22 in hospital. 5 in ICU.
Only 5 in the entire country!!!

And cases have been rising since mid July. We've had days of 200 cases. Why are they not all seriously sick?

The death rate is not accurate. We have admitted to overstating the deaths already. We also include terminally ill people as Covid deaths. And test people that pass away to see if we can include them in the death figures.

For such a mild illness, why have we crashed our economy?
Why do we continue to do so?

At what point do we accept that we have to press on and accept that some people will get sick and some might even die.

And you just know that they'll all distance themselves from it when we are dealing with a collapsed economy. NPHET will say they were only ever an advisory board. Government will say they delegated to the experts and followed health advise.

What's your plan so? Lets hear it. If you know what we're doing is wrong then you must know what is the correct course of action? Otherwise its just meaningless nonsense. What do we need to do differently?

end of the road · 25-08-2020 07:25PM

Lundstram wrote: »

No deaths again today, I recall a lot of posters on here two weeks ago spouting “wait a week or two and you’ll see deaths”. “Give it time”.

Deadly virus my arse.

it's because it's not being left unchecked that it isn't anything near as bad as it could have been.
because it's not as bad as it could be does not mean it isn't a deadly virus, we simply have got some sort of a grip on it to mean it's nothing near what it could be.

odyssey06 · 25-08-2020 07:35PM

lee_baby_simms wrote: »

I think we’re slowly creeping towards a tipping point. 6 weeks after schools open and the sky hasn’t fallen in i think there may be enough groundswell for the public legitimately question “the expert advice” and the collateral damage it’s causing.

If the schools go back without incident it will be considered a success for the government and show they were right to prioritise reopening schools over offices, and the recent restrictions.
There will be a sense of relief not a groundswell against the approach.
They are not that far out of step with the mainstream EU approach to tackling the crisis.

25-08-2020 07:36PM

end of the road wrote: »

our economy is fine, it is going to regrow itself.

I don't think many would share your optimism. What is your statement based on?

walus · 25-08-2020 07:45PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I don't think many would share your optimism. What is your statement based on?

I’d second that. Covid adjusted unemployment is 16.7% right now, that is a jump of roughly 11% from when it normally would have been. And that means a significant group of productive people sitting idle, which in turns reduces the economic output The economy contracted by 8.5%, so that is about 6 years of annual growth of 1.5% to just “grow” that lost wealth back. Altogether much worse situation than in 2008-2011, and it is still unfolding.

walus · 25-08-2020 07:51PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

If the schools go back without incident it will be considered a success for the government and show they were right to prioritise reopening schools over offices, and the recent restrictions.
There will be a sense of relief not a groundswell against the approach.
They are not that far out of step with the mainstream EU approach to tackling the crisis.

There is no chance that the schools will kick start without incidents i.e. outbreaks of Covid cases. People would make a mental shortcut from Covid case to death of Covid (skipping the less convenient to comprehend sick with Covid and death with Covid) and we are back to square one (fear, panic, etc).

lee_baby_simms · 25-08-2020 07:54PM

odyssey06 wrote: »

If the schools go back without incident it will be considered a success for the government and show they were right to prioritise reopening schools over offices, and the recent restrictions.
There will be a sense of relief not a groundswell against the approach.
They are not that far out of step with the mainstream EU approach to tackling the crisis.

Fair enough. You may be right. I just have a horrible feeling we’re going to look back at this point in time In a year or so with anger and regret when the real fallout from these restrictions become apparent.

But look, I see it differently. I think the worst of this is long gone based on what I feel to be fairly widespread immunity already and a weakening virus. I could be totally wrong. I don’t buy the second wave assumption. I don’t believe we are current “holding back the virus.” The only thing we’re holding back are people’s lives. I feel we are in the midst of over cautious approach and public hysteria.

I may well be proved wrong and I’ll admit it if that’s the case.

bucketybuck · 25-08-2020 07:56PM

Another day without a death I see.

Say it like it is, the daily death rate over the past month has been pretty much binary, as in mostly zero with the odd one here and there. That is in a period where the number of cases were comparable to back in March.

It takes 2 weeks to show effects, right?

So, the cases have been rising for over a month but the death rate is absolutely not following suit. When is there going to be a serious conversation about what that means?

odyssey06 · 25-08-2020 08:07PM

bucketybuck wrote: »

Another day without a death I see.
Say it like it is, the daily death rate over the past month has been pretty much binary, as in mostly zero with the odd one here and there. That is in a period where the number of cases were comparable to back in March.
It takes 2 weeks to show effects, right?
So, the cases have been rising for over a month but the death rate is absolutely not following suit. When is there going to be a serious conversation about what that means?

The vast majority of cases are in demographics outside the at risk group.
We have gotten better at protecting nursing homes ... infection control, masks etc.
And we have gotten better at treating serious cases eg dexamethasone (?).

If you think there is more of an explanation needed you will have to expand on your thinking.

Right now politically there is discontent re pubs and sports but schools trump all and dominate the thinking.

Penfailed · 25-08-2020 08:09PM

nannerbenahs wrote: »

I notice that you have contributed here for a long time. 14 years to be precise. That´s over 5000 days and an astonishing average outpouring of approximately seven posts per day. I hesitate to calculate the enormous number of hours spent hunched over a laptop.
It would be interesting to read your trove of stock comments dismissing all those nasty ´´Conspiracy theorists´´ over the years.
I would probably start with 9.11, where we all now know that the most incredible and ridiculous´´conspiracy theory´´ is actually the official version of that event.

Oh dear.

TRANQUILLO · 25-08-2020 08:30PM

1. Politicians live and die by the case numbers now . As much as we don't like it we and the media need to go easier on them or they will continue to make stupid knee-jerk decisions such as Kildare. All politicians from all parties. They are useless but we are not as forgiving as the Swedes in this regard. The politicians over there have left Anders Tegnell to get on it with and the focus is on him without them using the virus to grandstand or bash the opposition to the extent we do. None of our parties in Ireland will do any better than the other because of the culture we have here. They are all cheeks on the same arse......and when this is all over it needs a good smacking.

2. Before March 2020 we had a blank slate in regards to this virus . Within 6 months we have added "covidiots" "anti relaxers" "anti maskers" etc into our lexicon. We are talking about R numbers and antigens now as if we are experts. We have dug our trenches and picked our teams and now we are all fighting amongst ourselves. Polarisation about something that didn't exist in our lives before Christmas

3. We have invented a new hyper morality where someone who cares more than you is neurotic and someone who cares less than you is reckless scum who wants to kill your grandad. The government and media are impressing upon us how important it is to save lives while smoking cigarettes is still legal

4. The goal posts have been shifted from flattening the curve (which is never spoken about any more) to aiming for zero or near zero covid. Covid is the only metric by which we judge success now. All other diseases and causes of death can wait. We don't need graphs for them.

5. There has to be a callous pragmatic discussion had with ones self about how long it is acceptable to have (for example) 500 air hostesses and bar staff to be unemployed, to give 4 grandads 3 more years of life. I don't want anyone to die but there must be a line in each of our heads where someone else's life doesn't actually matter to us any more compared to the societal damage keeping those grandads alive causes. People will pretend that they don't have a line, but there is a line somewhere where grandad dying is the cost of doing business. Where the line is however is the question.

6. Deaths caused by Covid and ICU admissions caused by covid in parallel with ICU overall capacity should be the only numbers we are interested in .

7. High case numbers is good for clicks

8. People have a blind hypocrisy in relation to their tunnel vision quest to fight Covid. I have been regaled of tails of how dangerous this virus is by mates who would have no problem doing the odd line of cocaine or driving with a pint or two in them. Amazing how this invisible virus has finally put manners on these thrill seekers.

9. Not wanting or choosing not to wear a mask does not mean a person supports Donald Trump, are against immigration , gay rights , are anti abortion or kill puppies.

10. People who don't wear masks and who don't support lockdowns also pay taxes, vote and have parents who are old too.

11. BLM and Covid have one huge thing in common. Hysteria and bad faith arguments on both sides of the opinion.

12. The discourse is virtually pointless now on Boards.ie and on other media platforms as people cannot even agree on statistics or facts. The numbers are meaningless at this stage. One mans opinion seems to mean as much as another mans fact.
The conversation has been rendered completely redundant.

13. If we NCT'd every car in Ireland over a 4 month period we would have an "epidemic" of "unroadworthy" vehicles. Most of these owners would not have known anything was wrong with their cars at all and they were driving just fine......

FintanMcluskey · 25-08-2020 08:45PM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Another anti-relaxer who likes to lazily lump any anti-establishment approach as being loopy or tinfoil hat, conveniently ignoring the fact that this thread has so many official data sources cited to lead to the opinions we are offering. One or two headcases does not define the thread and, as the poster above alludes to, your ignorance in this regard can likely be framed in a keyboard warrior type context.

It's so sad. Im close to tears.

Anyone who urges others to consider the plethora of people who will die due to undiagnosed and untreated cancers is referred to as a tin foil hat lunatic.

This is what my granny told me Ireland was like trying to live under the grip of the church.

She was wrong, times havent moved on

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

Comments

Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - Read OP for Mod Warnings