How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

25-08-2020 12:16PM

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Both of which may never come.

The latter is certainly possible if there was a will to achieve it, its locking down we should be, closing airports and ports, closing restaurants and everything bar essential food shops. Hold this for a few months and we could drive this virus totally out of the country.

Then we could reopen the country and schools but keep ports and airpots closed.

The current approach is idiotic. On one hand we are told we can't meet people outside only in tiny groups yet we are going to pack 100's of thousands into schools its beyond stupid and we are going to see a massive spike in cases and a lot more deaths because the people cant make the hard decisions.

Sunday Sunday · 25-08-2020 12:20PM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

I have to disagree, given that billions being spent on covid-19 research and vaccinations at the moment a solution will be found, it will just take time, which we can decide to spend carefully to minimize deaths.

Instead we have decided to revert to the initial UK approach of herd immunity because it would take too much effort and work to setup a blended and safe school system for the next 1-2 years.

Blended learning was given a fair shot and proved to be a failure mostly. Blended learning is not a magical solution (same way masks aren't either).

We will still have cases and clusters even if we did go down blended learning route and even is everyone wore masks. Sure we have spikes now and schools have been closed for 6 months.

We can't just put everything on hold for a couple of years on the promise of a vaccine that might or might not come.

The lockdown served its purpose, ours was very long and drawn out compared to some EU countries. Deaths will be minimised because of the lockdown and the progress made to prepare over the last few months, we were preparing to be able to deal with things while living with the virus in circulation.

bladespin · 25-08-2020 12:21PM

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

The latter is certainly possible if there was a will to achieve it, its locking down we should be, closing airports and ports, closing restaurants and everything bar essential food shops. Hold this for a few months and we could drive this virus totally out of the country.

A lockdown for anything like that duration would more likely result in increased cases at this stage.

Icyseanfitz · 25-08-2020 12:23PM

[QUOTE=Sunday Sunday;114415918]Blended learning was given a fair shot and proved to be a failure mostly. Blended learning is not a magical solution (same way masks aren't either).

We will still have cases and clusters even if we did go down blended learning route and even is everyone wore masks. Sure we have spikes now and schools have been closed for 6 months.

We can't just put everything on hold for a couple of years on the promise of a vaccine that might or might not come.

The lockdown served its purpose, ours was very long and drawn out compared to some EU countries. Deaths will be minimised because of the lockdown and the progress made to prepare over the last few months, we were preparing to be able to deal with things while living with the virus in circulation.[/QUOTE]

It really really wasn't, but I'm not going to argue with you about it

markodaly · 25-08-2020 12:24PM

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

The latter is certainly possible if there was a will to achieve it, its locking down we should be, closing airports and ports, closing restaurants and everything bar essential food shops. Hold this for a few months and we could drive this virus totally out of the country.

Then we could reopen the country and schools but keep ports and airpots closed.

The current approach is idiotic. On one hand we are told we can't meet people outside only in tiny groups yet we are going to pack 100's of thousands into schools its beyond stupid and we are going to see a massive spike in cases and a lot more deaths because the people cant make the hard decisions.

How do we close the border with the North?

vid36 · 25-08-2020 12:24PM

PCros wrote: »

Need to compare like for like.

South Korea's population density is 7 times greater than Ireland

Yes, but our testing and tracing system is significantly inferior.Besides, there are densely populated places in Ireland too.Do you honestly think we will go through the school year without significant closures at some point.

Sunday Sunday · 25-08-2020 12:26PM

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

The latter is certainly possible if there was a will to achieve it, its locking down we should be, closing airports and ports, closing restaurants and everything bar essential food shops. Hold this for a few months and we could drive this virus totally out of the country.

Then we could reopen the country and schools but keep ports and airpots closed.

The current approach is idiotic. On one hand we are told we can't meet people outside only in tiny groups yet we are going to pack 100's of thousands into schools its beyond stupid and we are going to see a massive spike in cases and a lot more deaths because the people cant make the hard decisions.

Lockdown is over, some people seem to want to prolong it. Even in "locked down" counties the past few weeks it's over/non existent.

There is no point driving the virus out through extreme measures for it to be reintroduced shortly after (look at countries that have done this already).

Do you honestly think people will tolerate another lockdown?

Priorities now, it's not a priority for you to have large gatherings in your home but it is a priority to get kids back to school.

Closures have gone on much longer than they needed to and that's only because school holidays fell during the past few months. Had the timing been different our schools would be open a while already.

PCros · 25-08-2020 12:30PM

vid36 wrote: »

Yes, but our testing and tracing system is significantly inferior.Besides, there are densely populated places in Ireland too.Do you honestly think we will go through the school year without significant closures at some point.

Realistically, I do believe some schools will close for 2 weeks throughout the year especially this side of Christmas.

But there won't be mass closures across the country.

meeeeh · 25-08-2020 12:34PM

PCros wrote: »

Realistically, I do believe some schools will close for 2 weeks throughout the year especially this side of Christmas.

But there won't be mass closures across the country.

I hope something similar. However if prolonged closures will be necessary it won't be because of school reopening but because of other pressures on the system.

Boggles · 25-08-2020 12:43PM

PCros wrote: »

Realistically, I do believe some schools will close for 2 weeks throughout the year especially this side of Christmas.

But there won't be mass closures across the country.

What are you basing that on?

The reality of the situation is, if the daily infection rate goes above X and continues to rise (which it is doing now), with exponential growth in clusters and community transmission which will stretch test turn times around and contact tracing (evidence this is happening all ready) the only effective option NPHET will have is nationwide harsh restrictions, not as bad as March but not far off.

They simply have no other tools in their Arsenal.

Can we wash our hands faster or for longer?

That is the reality of the situation here and other places in the world far better equipped than us.

I'd like to hear a justification for your version of reality which seems to be, it will be grand we will just continue to play "whack a mole".

PCros · 25-08-2020 12:52PM

Boggles wrote: »

What are you basing that on?

I'd like to hear a justification for your version of reality which seems to be, it will be grand we will just continue to play "whack a mole".

Current cases are mirroring that of the latter part of May but we have not seen any deaths like there were at that time too.

There is belief that the virus us either getting weaker or as its making its way down to a younger age bracket where it does not appear to be affecting them in a serious way.

John_Rambo · 25-08-2020 12:55PM

The schools need to open. We've just had our last lunch with my elderly parents for a while.

Households need to distance now. Adults are going to have to behave like adults and if they're in contact with kids avoid elderly folk.

Boggles · 25-08-2020 01:01PM

PCros wrote: »

Current cases are mirroring that of the latter part of May but we have not seen any deaths like there were at that time too.

In May we had actual restrictions and cases were on the decrease.

PCros wrote: »

There is belief that the virus us either getting weaker or as its making its way down to a younger age bracket where it does not appear to be affecting them in a serious way.

A belief by who?

Every university / hospital with an infectious disease wing is actively monitoring the world over the "building blocks" of Covid 19, there is no consensus that it has morphed into a less deadly strain. Unless you have some sort of proof to back up your claim?

Now any chance you could actually answer the question I asked without nonsensical deflection?

Boggles · 25-08-2020 01:05PM

meeeeh wrote: »

I hope something similar. However if prolonged closures will be necessary it won't be because of school reopening but because of other pressures on the system.

So you think sticking more than a fifth of the population indoors since the first time since March, with all the 10s of millions of movements and interactions that will bring into the wider community will not contribute any pressure to "the system"?

Have people lost their fúcking facilities?

25-08-2020 01:07PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

The schools need to open. We've just had our last lunch with my elderly parents for a while.

Households need to distance now. Adults are going to have to behave like adults and if they're in contact with kids avoid elderly folk.

Not so easy when grandparents do child-mining and drop-offs/pick ups or where they are living in the same house etc the former which is very common and the latter which is far from rare nowadays.

This also applies to teachers living at home not just where kids are involved.

What about all the vulnerable kids and parents, they can't just "avoid" contact.

Opening the schools is madness plain and simple, it should not be happening.

firemansam4 · 25-08-2020 01:10PM

Very bad news on RTE news today reporting confirmed cases of reinfection from this disease.
I have to say I was very hopeful that we may have an effective vaccination by early next year, but this news does not bode well for that.

So if we were to keep children home from school, how long can we keep it up for?
Home schooling is not working for many children, how much more education can they really miss out on? Another year? Or maybe longer?

meeeeh · 25-08-2020 01:12PM

Boggles wrote: »

So you think sticking more than a fifth of the population indoors since the first time since March, with all the 10s of millions of movements and interactions that will bring into the wider community will not contribute any pressure to "the system"?

Have people lost their fúcking facilities?

No I didn't. It didn't seem to adversely affect countries that went back in spring so I don't know what was supposed to change this time. Many countries also never closed production facilities and similar and managed without significantly worsening situation. The numbers are still relatively low.

I'm not saying it can't go wrong but we won't know that until we go back. Hysterically standing still is not something we should do to our children.

PCros · 25-08-2020 01:14PM

Boggles wrote: »

Now any chance you could actually answer the question I asked without nonsensical deflection?

I'm not deflecting at all but there is discussion on it.

Below is from professor in Japan and whilst he does mention it could get weaker, it could get worse too but I'd like to have an optimistic view.

Tetsuya Mizutani, a virology professor at Tokyo University of Agriculture and Technology, touched on the gradual decline in global death rates of coronavirus patients, and commented, "The possibility that the virus is heading in the direction of becoming weaker cannot be denied." However, he also emphasized, "Mutations occur randomly. It is also possible for the virus to transform suddenly and become more lethal.

Boggles · 25-08-2020 01:16PM

meeeeh wrote: »

No I didn't. It didn't seem to adversely affect countries that went back in spring so I don't know what was supposed to change this time. Many countries also never closed production facilities and similar and managed without significantly worsening situation. The numbers are still relatively low.

The only country that went back in Spring/Summer that mimics or plan and numbers were Israel. It lasted 2 weeks.

meeeeh wrote: »

I'm not saying it can't go wrong but we won't know that until we go back.

Spoiler alert: it will go títs up spectacularly, we have all seen the movie, we know the ending.

meeeeh wrote: »

Hysterically standing still is not something we should do to our children.

That would be an improvement to the current "plan".

Boggles · 25-08-2020 01:19PM

PCros wrote: »

I'm not deflecting at all but there is discussion on it.

Below is from professor in Japan and whilst he does mention it could get weaker, it could get worse too but I'd like to have an optimistic view.

Tetsuya Mizutani, a virology professor at Tokyo University of Agriculture and Technology, touched on the gradual decline in global death rates of coronavirus patients, and commented, "The possibility that the virus is heading in the direction of becoming weaker cannot be denied." However, he also emphasized, "Mutations occur randomly. It is also possible for the virus to transform suddenly and become more lethal.

Da Fuq? :pac:

He is musing, it could be weaker or more deadly.

Seriously?

Last go, any chance you could actually answer the question I asked you?

If you don't want to or can't it's fine, but you are pretty forthright in your opinions on here, I just want to establish if that is just pure Bravado or there is actual science behind it.

Blondini · 25-08-2020 01:19PM

I suppose it's a case of wait and see what happens in this major public health experiment.

Really feel sorry for the particular students, families and staff who are in genuine danger and feel forced into returning.

meeeeh · 25-08-2020 01:21PM

Boggles wrote: »

The only country that went back in Spring/Summer that mimics or plan and numbers were Israel. It lasted 2 weeks.

Spoiler alert: it will go títs up spectacularly, we have all seen the movie, we know the ending.

That would be an improvement to the current "plan".

Yes let's close our healthcare and schools. Let's destroy business and then we can be proud we stopped spread of Corona while everything else around us burns and while we destroy the future of so many kids.

BTW you are very certain in your predictions. What is your expert background?

wirelessdude01 · 25-08-2020 01:21PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

Households need to distance now. Adults are going to have to behave like adults and if they're in contact with kids avoid elderly folk.

Adults need to be adults.

caveat emptor · 25-08-2020 01:23PM

John_Rambo wrote: »

The schools need to open. We've just had our last lunch with my elderly parents for a while.

Households need to distance now. Adults are going to have to behave like adults and if they're in contact with kids avoid elderly folk.

What if your parents are the childcare? School finishes much earlier than work.
Grand parents have fulfilled that role for a long time.
All you need are a few who believe it’s not real and you are in trouble.

https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1297881979938058241?s=21

Sunday Sunday · 25-08-2020 01:23PM

Adrianna Gigantic Moth wrote: »

Not so easy when grandparents do child-mining and drop-offs/pick ups or where they are living in the same house etc the former which is very common and the latter which is far from rare nowadays.

This also applies to teachers living at home not just where kids are involved.

What about all the vulnerable kids and parents, they can't just "avoid" contact.

Opening the schools is madness plain and simple, it should not be happening.

People will have to source alternative childcare, nothing new to see here everyone has been taking personal precautions since March.

Healthcare and other essential workers have had to manage this all along.

markodaly · 25-08-2020 01:23PM

firemansam4 wrote: »

Very bad news on RTE news today reporting confirmed cases of reinfection from this disease.
I have to say I was very hopeful that we may have an effective vaccination by early next year, but this news does not bode well for that.

So if we were to keep children home from school, how long can we keep it up for?
Home schooling is not working for many children, how much more education can they really miss out on? Another year? Or maybe longer?

Again, this is the type of nonsensical soundbite from people who read the headline but not the substance of the article.

The news is actually good and positive, but as always there will be some that will want to turn it into a negative. Again, RTE's reporting sometimes is lacking.

Icyseanfitz · 25-08-2020 01:24PM

Blondini wrote: »

I suppose it's a case of wait and see what happens in this major public health experiment.

Really feel sorry for the particular students, families and staff who are in genuine danger and feel forced into returning.

Gonna see my elderly mother and father for the last time for the foreseeable future tomorrow, just can't take the risk with the numbers I'll be working in a class with. It's going to be very tough for people for a while.

Boggles · 25-08-2020 01:24PM

meeeeh wrote: »

Yes let's close our healthcare and schools. Let's destroy business and then we can be proud we stopped spread of Corona while everything else around us burns and while we destroy the future of so many kids.

Ahhh. The current "plan" does all that.

There is a worrying disconnect from actual reality being displayed in abundance on this thread.

Sunday Sunday · 25-08-2020 01:25PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

What if your parents are the childcare? School finishes much earlier than work.
Grand parents have fulfilled that role for a long time.
All you need are a few who believe it’s not real and you are in trouble.

https://twitter.com/yaneerbaryam/status/1297881979938058241?s=21

Maybe time to rethink that setup, personal responsibility and decision making required.

What has everyone else been up to for the past 6 months, this is nothing new at this stage.

Boggles · 25-08-2020 01:26PM

meeeeh wrote: »

.
BTW you are very certain in your predictions. What is your expert background?

Thanks for asking.

I have a grasp of basic fúcking maths and a self awareness to see a novel virus with no immunity only goes one way.

What are your credentials?

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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