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How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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Comments

  • #4142
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Your qualifications make you a better judge as to whether schools can go back than the experts. And unless your kids have pre existing conditions or you have a household member who is vulnerable, your kids are perfectly safe at school

    What a silly statement, you can't say children won't get ill or that their perfectly seemingly healthy parents and family won't get badly ill


  • #4143
    timmy_mallet
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,165 ✭✭✭timmy_mallet


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    What a silly statement, you can't say children won't get ill or that their perfectly seemingly healthy parents and family won't get badly ill

    Yes, but a cursory google of research to date will tell you parents should be more worried about influenza than covid 19 for their children.


  • #4144
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    khalessi wrote: »
    Yes children for the most part do not get significnt illness but the following have been shown in studies;

    0-5 year olds carry more coronavirus in their noses than adults,

    10 years olds can spread it just as easily as adults.


    So fine the child will not get ill, but some will and have since March and some have not been in an at risk group. And for a rare group it can lead to MIS -C, multi organ inflammotory symdrome-covid.

    I am glad you have no more concern for your kids getting it, but it could affect other children or adults worse than yours.

    Children can pass it on to their parents other peoples parents, grandparents

    And in the UK they discovered that majority of infections were brought in by staff, almost half transmissions of known cases were between staff (13) and out of 30 transmissions only two were between kids. Around 67 or so didn't transmit to anyone.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-chris-whitty-says-reopening-of-schools-will-put-pressure-on-the-r-number-12054491

    There is a better article in The Times but I can't copy from the app and it's not working in browser for me.


  • #4145
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    timmy_mallet wrote: »
    Yes, but a cursory google of research to date will tell you parents should be more worried about influenza than covid 19 for their children.

    What research, all of 7-8 months on covid vs decades on influenza


  • #4146
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    How come people are all for taking scientists word for it yet when it comes to kids going back to school they say they're wrong?


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  • #4147
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    How come people are all for taking scientists word for it yet when it comes to kids going back to school they say they're wrong?

    Apparently they are all on government payroll and it's better to listen to Johnny on the Internet.


  • #4148
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    I also have to laugh at parents on facebook/twitter etc saying they're not sending their kids back to school as if it's some kick in the face to the government. The losers are your kids, not government or anyone else.


  • #4149
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Apparently they are all on government payroll and it's better to listen to Johnny on the Internet.

    List the independent scientists that have said that schools will be safe on a fully normal return in September with 30 in a classroom, no social distancing, non mandatory ppe, and non staggered start and finish times + buses as normal


  • #4150
    CertifiedSimp
    Site Banned Posts: 280 ✭✭CertifiedSimp


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    List the independent scientists that have said that schools will be safe on a fully normal return in September with 30 in a classroom, no social distancing, non mandatory ppe, and non staggered start and finish times + buses as normal

    Why do they have to be independent?

    I never hear people asking for independent scientists with regard climate change etc.


  • #4151
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    List the independent scientists that have said that schools will be safe on a fully normal return in September with 30 in a classroom, no social distancing, non mandatory ppe, and non staggered start and finish times + buses as normal

    What about you start listing the ones that said they won't be. And btw my kids have staggered start and there is some social distancing.


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  • #4152
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    Why do they have to be independent?

    I never hear people asking for independent scientists with regard climate change etc.

    Clearly the government are trying to push everyone back to schools at the cost of ignoring all public health advice pushed everywhere else, in which case anyone affiliated with them is tarnished imo


  • #4153
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    How come people are all for taking scientists word for it yet when it comes to kids going back to school they say they're wrong?

    Scientists we believe, our government we don't. Because the information from scientists is available for anyone to read on the internet. The evidence of how covid affects children is on tv and in newspapers, and yes for the most part it is mild but for some it isnt and every parent worries what if my kid is that one. But we have to move on live with the virus and we see how other schools have gone back in other countries is available for all to see, staged and partial openings. Then we see how our government is doing it and it is not good.

    Our government said they would stage a phased reopening of schools, but have gone back on that. When schools reopened they did not want to fund them, similar to how they were over proper PPE for HCW in March which took until April for them to agree to. Then they made a big deal about soap. We have been told schools are more controlable then our homes.

    We see now the debacle over school buses. How could the Min of Transport say he only found out about it the day before his radio interview. How can the Min of Education go missing? How can our Min of Health be so clueless and our Taoiseach so arrogant when questioned?

    We know when we are being lied to. Be honest it is a risk and just do it properly, our kids are worth it.

    So that is part of the why


  • #4154
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    meeeeh wrote: »
    What about you start listing the ones that said they won't be. And btw my kids have staggered start and there is some social distancing.

    I don't have to, the world over is telling people not to congregate in large groups at the moment, social distance, wear masks and work and interact remotely if at all able to lessen the spread until a vaccine can be created. People are dying young and old, people are having their lives changed with long term symptoms the world over, it's not fake, it's not the flu, it exists and it spreads in close quarters between human beings, students are human beings and so it will spread between them much the same as everywhere else.

    And didn't the Irish fella in charge of the WHO today state that kids are just as likely to contract and spread


  • #4155
    Queried
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 241 ✭✭Queried


    CertifiedSimp wrote: »
    How come people are all for taking scientists word for it yet when it comes to kids going back to school they say they're wrong?

    In my case the issue is with how in a lot of schools, mine included, putting precautions such as social distancing in place is simply impossible. Anything that I've read that concludes that a classroom environment is a safe one when it comes to covid presumes that social distancing measures are in place. The guidelines state that social distancing of at least 1m "where possible" should be put in place. In my school this is not physically possible, so it's not happening. No masks for senior primary classes either even though 10 year olds and over are at least as likely to spread the virus. Many of us are going back to pretty much the same classroom we were in in March. In my case, it will be with 30 11-12 year olds with no social distancing and no PPE.


  • #4156
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    I don't have to, the world over is telling people not to congregate in large groups at the moment, social distance, wear masks and work and interact remotely if at all able to lessen the spread until a vaccine can be created. People are dying young and old, people are having their lives changed with long term symptoms the world over, it's not fake, it's not the flu, it exists and it spreads in close quarters between human beings, students are human beings and so it will spread between them much the same as everywhere else.

    And didn't the Irish fella in charge of the WHO today state that kids are just as likely to contract and spread

    Oh so it's the world over. You demand a lot higher standards of others than of yourself. And actually I posted somewhere data from UK where the most transmissions were between sraff, only two between kids and the rest from staff to kids or kids to sraff. All numbers are low though. Of course that will be ignored because the research is sponsored by government...


  • #4157
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    meeeeh wrote: »
    And in the UK they discovered that majority of infections were brought in by staff, almost half transmissions of known cases were between staff (13) and out of 30 transmissions only two were between kids. Around 67 or so didn't transmit to anyone.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/coronavirus-chris-whitty-says-reopening-of-schools-will-put-pressure-on-the-r-number-12054491

    There is a better article in The Times but I can't copy from the app and it's not working in browser for me.

    Not disagreeing that staff can spread it, we know that, but the fact that there is research out there acknowledged by Mark Ryan of WHO and other world experts regarding children and infection but it is being ignored by our government and from what I read tonight on here that consultants are being told to get kids into schools, coupled with teachers being downgraded from very high risk to high risk is disgraceful.

    Watching Dr. Glynn the other evening struggling to answer questions and reading Prof Nolan's statement tonight, I get the strong impression that they are being prevented from saying what they really think. They have been given a remit that they have to stay with and have been hamstrung.

    They just need to be honest, yes it is high risk which should mean do it properly not half arsed.


  • #4158
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    And didn't the Irish fella in charge of the WHO today state that kids are just as likely to contract and spread

    And didn't some research say that kids under ten are less likely so unless you find a link to the fellas statement (Mike Ryan btw) I will believe information I can actually Google. Among the statements I could actually find the Irish fella also said that the key to reopening schools is to keep community transmission low.


  • #4159
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    khalessi wrote: »
    Not disagreeing that staff can spread it, we know that, but the fact that there is research out there acknowledged by Mark Ryan of WHO and other world experts regarding children and infection but it is being ignored by our government and from what I read tonight on here that consultants are being told to get kids into schools, coupled with teachers being downgraded from very high risk to high risk is disgraceful.

    Watching Dr. Glynn the other evening struggling to answer questions and reading Prof Nolan's statement tonight, I get the strong impression that they are being prevented from saying what they really think. They have been given a remit that they have to stay with and have been hamstrung.

    They just need to be honest, yes it is high risk which should mean do it properly not half arsed.

    So you believe any statement someone makes on the Internet without anything concrete backing it but you think the people who actually know something about the disease are basically spreading fake news. Hello Donald.


  • #4160
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    meeeeh wrote: »
    And didn't some research say that kids under ten are less likely so unless you find a link to the fellas statement (Mike Ryan btw) I will believe information I can actually Google. Among the statements I could actually find the Irish fella also said that the key to reopening schools is to keep community transmission low.

    I printed out verbatim what Mike Ryan said during that interview with Sarah McInerney and it was then he referred to children as young as 10. I will find it for ya if you want and the link to the interview.


  • #4161
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    meeeeh wrote: »
    Oh so it's the world over. You demand a lot higher standards of others than of yourself. And actually I posted somewhere data from UK where the most transmissions were between sraff, only two between kids and the rest from staff to kids or kids to sraff. All numbers are low though. Of course that will be ignored because the research is sponsored by government...

    Yes, it's a global pandemic.

    We have just been told 100 new kids have the virus in Ireland, a number of which have been hospitalized. That's before school even starts, this virus is extremely contagious, why would it be better once school starts (much in the same as when they closed in March), that makes zero logical sense


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  • #4162
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    Yes, it's a global pandemic.

    News flash world over means nothing. Trump and Bolsonaro are also world over. So again different standards for yourself than others so tell me which scientists said schools are not safe to open.


  • #4163
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    meeeeh wrote: »
    So you believe any statement someone makes on the Internet without anything concrete backing it but you think the people who actually know something about the disease are basically spreading fake news. Hello Donald.

    Mark Ryan an idiot good one. Your post is idiotic. I look at JAMA and JAMa Paeds and other scientific research, you deliberately twist things. I am a nurse so I always go medical not some random crap.
    What is your agenda I wonder?


  • #4164
    Icyseanfitz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,534 ✭✭✭Icyseanfitz


    meeeeh wrote: »
    News flash world over means nothing. Trump and Bolsonaro are also world over. So again different standards for yourself than others.

    The virus exists in Asia, the virus exists in Europe, the virus exists in Africa, the virus exists in the Americas, hence world over aka world wide pandemic. I really don't understand the point your arguing with me about at this stage


  • #4165
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    khalessi wrote: »
    Mark Ryan an idiot good one. Your post is idiotic. I look at JAMA and JAMa Paeds and other scientific research, you deliberately twist things. I am a nurse so I always go medical not some random crap.
    What is your agenda I wonder?

    I didn't say Mike Ryan is an idiot and I would appreciate if you could show me where I said that. (In fact I never critised anything he actually said). Mike Ryan also never critised Irish plans because WHO tend not to comment on local stuff. And you are a nurse? I thought you were a teacher earlier.

    And going on about agenda... Another statement from Donald Trump playbook.


  • #4166
    bobbyy gee
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,306 ✭✭✭bobbyy gee


    Children don't get sick or badly sick but they become carriers. When you have to worry is when your living with old people or people with heart problems or some other affliction
    You might have to isolate the old person
    Treatments are getting better like steroids anti cloting medicine .


  • #4167
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    meeeeh wrote: »
    I didn't say Mike Ryan is an idiot and I would appreciate if you could show me where I said that. Mike Ryan also never critised Irish plans because WHO tend not to comment on local stuff. And you are a nurse? I thought you were a teacher earlier.

    And going on about agenda. Another statement from Donald Trump pkaybook.

    I am qualified in more than one area, it happens. Well calling people out for fake news as you did in previous post is deffo Trump handbook.


  • #4168
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    Icyseanfitz wrote: »
    The virus exists in Asia, the virus exists in Europe, the virus exists in Africa, the virus exists in the Americas, hence world over aka world wide pandemic. I really don't understand the point your arguing with me about at this stage

    You demanded list of independent scientists who said that Irish school reopening is safe. I said that you could list the ones who said it's not. Your reply was the world over..


  • #4169
    meeeeh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,624 ✭✭✭✭meeeeh


    khalessi wrote: »
    I am qualified in more than one area, it happens. Well calling people out for fake news as you did in previous post is deffo Trump handbook.

    You might be qualified in more than one area but you are either a teacher or nurse, I very much doubt you are double jobbing. So which is it?


  • #4170
    khalessi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,216 ✭✭✭khalessi


    meeeeh wrote: »
    You might be qualified in more than one area but you are either a teacher or nurse, I very much doubt you are double jobbing. So which is it?

    I am still qualified as both. So both apply as you dont forget what you learn or the area you work in. Or are you implying I should just ignore the knowledge I have? I maintain registration in both.


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  • #4171
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    meeeeh wrote: »
    You might be qualified in more than one area but you are either a teacher or nurse, I very much doubt you are double jobbing. So which is it?

    You are just being a pest. She is clearly a smart woman so leave it at that.

    That donald playbook stuff is a donald play in itself.

    Stick to the points, she beat you up and down the yard with the actual science and then you had to make it personal.


This discussion has been closed.
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