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Relaxation of Restrictions, Part V - **Read OP for Mod Warnings**

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Comments

  • #2822
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Ok so do you want a worldwide collective approach or just Ireland, you haven't really thought this through have you.

    This is like fighting a gorilla. You keep twisting it into something i never said. Goodnight and good luck.


  • #2823
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    i_surge wrote: »
    6-8 weeks won't destroy anything.

    2-5 years more of this hoping for a vaccine will destroy everything though. Also im laughing how between the pair of you, you somehow talked yourself into the exact situation we are in now being the holy grail.

    Stoping economy for 2 months will at least double the damage. Sure, we will borrow more and tax citizens accordingly. At what point do we open up again? Zero Covid? And if so what do we do when new cases appear again?

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #2824
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    walus wrote: »
    Stoping economy for 2 months will at least double the damage. Sure, we will borrow more and tax citizens accordingly. At what point do we open up again? Zero Covid? And if so what do we do when new cases appear again?

    Revert to your policy.

    Covid is no big deal, right?


  • #2825
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,138 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    i_surge wrote: »
    Revert to your policy.

    Covid is no big deal, right?

    Your like a politican, dodging any hard question. Tell us your plan, how long for, how long do you think we can keep up a tight border for. What happens if no vaccine comes up. I dont expect you to answer these questions. Just more waffle and deflection.


  • #2826
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Your like a politican, dodging any hard question. Tell us your plan, how long for, how long do you think we can keep up a tight border for. What happens if no vaccine comes up. I dont expect you to answer these questions. Just more waffle and deflection.

    Yeah exactly what does happen if no vaccine comes up? You keep torpedoing your own arguments

    Seriously this is like pulling teeth, I'm out.


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  • #2827
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    i_surge wrote: »
    Revert to your policy.

    Covid is no big deal, right?

    Can you answer those simple questions? I’m genuinely interested.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #2828
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    walus wrote: »
    Can you answer those simple questions? I’m genuinely interested.

    Handle them and contain them, track and trace which is easier to do at a lower incidence. If borders are well managed it wouldn't be a problem.

    Nobody can create perfection but it is easy to avoid ****ups.


  • #2829
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    i_surge wrote: »
    6-8 weeks won't destroy anything.

    2-5 years more of this hoping for a vaccine will destroy everything though. Also im laughing how between the pair of you, you somehow talked yourself into the exact situation we are in now being the holy grail.

    Ok...you respond to a lot of posts with platitudes, ‘get our lives back by another magically short lockdown’ posts. Let’s hear how you’re going to achieve it:
    1. I want to hear how you would seal the border with NI
    2. How are you going to pay for the inevitable bills of thousands more unemployed
    3. How will you police this new magical lockdown, especially as compliance will be even less this time around
    4. How will Ireland’s economy and multinationals operate, how will ports operate.
    5. How do we maintain EU membership, while banning members of EU countries to enter and exit here. Oh and does Michael Martin travel to Brussels with others? Do we apply for their bailout or loans?

    I’ve many more questions for you to answer but this is a good start. Let’s get into the nuts and bolts of the platitudes with some concrete suggestions.


  • #2830
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    4. How will Ireland’s economy and multinationals operate, how will ports operate..

    Ireland's economy is multinationals. 60% of GDP is from 10 companies

    I can't see how Ireland could ever isolate itself without surviving on a potato diet for the rest of time

    Oh and number 5, we can't go maverick, we aren't just Ireland, we are part of Europe


  • #2831
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    Ok...you respond to a lot of posts with platitudes, ‘get our lives back by another magically short lockdown’ posts. Let’s hear how you’re going to achieve it:
    1. I want to hear how you would seal the border with NI
    2. How are you going to pay for the inevitable bills of thousands more unemployed
    3. How will you police this new magical lockdown, especially as compliance will be even less this time around
    4. How will Ireland’s economy and multinationals operate, how will ports operate.
    5. How do we maintain EU membership, while banning members of EU countries to enter and exit here. Oh and does Michael Martin travel to Brussels with others? Do we apply for their bailout or loans?

    I’ve many more questions for you to answer but this is a good start. Let’s get into the nuts and bolts of the platitudes with some concrete suggestions.

    Copy new zealand, job done. Im not some maniac with wild theories, other countries have exemplified how we should approach this and we are failing to follow.

    How will you pay for the long painful economic devestation we will endure on the current path.l?

    I admit policing it is hard, has to be buy in or it is useless. Only chance to earn your life back.

    Keep fighting it ;)


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  • #2832
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    i_surge wrote: »
    Copy new zealand, job done. Im not some maniac with wild theories, other countries have exemplified how we should approach this and we are failing to follow.

    How will you pay for the long painful economic devestation we will endure on the current path.l?

    I admit policing it is hard, has to be buy in or it is useless. Only chance to earn your life back.

    Keep fighting it ;)

    New Zealand cant reopen without a vaccine.

    I'm all for the Swedish approach


  • #2833
    Penfailed
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,682 ✭✭✭Penfailed


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I'm all for the Swedish approach

    We know.

    Gigs '24 - Ben Ottewell and Ian Ball (Gomez), The Jesus & Mary Chain, The Smashing Pumpkins/Weezer, Pearl Jam, Green Day, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Electric Picnic, Pixies, Ride, Therapy?, Public Service Broadcasting, IDLES, And So I Watch You From Afar

    Gigs '25 - Spiritualized, Supergrass, Stendhal Festival, Forest Fest, Queens of the Stone Age, Electric Picnic, Vantastival, And So I Watch You From Afar



  • #2834
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    i_surge wrote: »
    Copy new zealand, job done. Im not some maniac with wild theories, other countries have exemplified how we should approach this and we are failing to follow.

    How will you pay for the long painful economic devestation we will endure on the current path.l?

    I admit policing it is hard, has to be buy in or it is useless. Only chance to earn your life back.

    Keep fighting it ;)

    Waiting for the answers to my questions....


  • #2835
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,138 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    i_surge wrote: »
    Copy new zealand, job done. Im not some maniac with wild theories, other countries have exemplified how we should approach this and we are failing to follow.

    How will you pay for the long painful economic devestation we will endure on the current path.l?

    I admit policing it is hard, has to be buy in or it is useless. Only chance to earn your life back.

    Keep fighting it ;)

    Answer the questions he asked. Stop deflecting.


  • #2836
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    New Zealand cant reopen without a vaccine.

    I'm all for the Swedish approach

    If you believe the swedish model and you want us to reopen here, then how does that apply to New Zealand.

    You cant believe and disbelieve in the virus simultaneously Fintan.


  • #2837
    CruelSummer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,328 ✭✭✭CruelSummer


    I took a look at this video from Spain, where a doctor finally states reality. It’s subtitled. Hospitals are empty, there is no emergency...journalist clearly leading questions to drum up fear, he’s not having it.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=SwlkumcRf6w


  • #2838
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    niallo27 wrote: »
    Answer the questions he asked. Stop deflecting.

    The questions are bollox. Just limiting beliefs.

    I'm not getting into the details, this is a big picture argument.


  • #2839
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    Waiting for the answers to my questions....

    You can keep waiting.. they are facile and I'm ignoring them.


  • #2840
    niallo27
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,138 ✭✭✭✭niallo27


    i_surge wrote: »
    The questions are bollox. Just limiting beliefs.

    I'm not getting into the details, this is a big picture argument.

    How can you say they are bollox, they are all legitimate questions. I'll stop now, listen your idea is in the right place its just not reachable.


  • #2841
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    i_surge wrote: »
    If you believe the swedish model and you want us to reopen here, then how does that apply to New Zealand.

    You cant believe and disbelieve in the virus simultaneously Fintan.

    I never said I disbelieve.

    Covid does exist.

    Vulnerable people that die, do test positive


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  • #2842
    walus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,668 ✭✭✭walus


    i_surge wrote: »
    Copy new zealand, job done. Im not some maniac with wild theories, other countries have exemplified how we should approach this and we are failing to follow.

    How will you pay for the long painful economic devestation we will endure on the current path.l?

    I admit policing it is hard, has to be buy in or it is useless. Only chance to earn your life back.

    Keep fighting it ;)

    I suppose I understand complex and dynamic problems differently. For me lockdown is a crude, temporary way to buy some time as it is not a long term solution to a virus containment which is a long term problem. We have tried that and only now the government is waking up to the fact that they need a long term strategy to this.

    ”Where’s the revolution? Come on, people you’re letting me down!”



  • #2843
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    Penfailed wrote: »
    We know.

    Who's we?

    The perpetually offended hysteria brigade?


  • #2844
    GPoint
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 274 ✭✭GPoint


    CruelSummer wrote: »
    I took a look at this video from Spain, where a doctor finally states reality. It’s subtitled. Hospitals are empty, there is no emergency...journalist clearly leading questions to drum up fear, he’s not having it.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=SwlkumcRf6w

    Similar video today posted on that channel from France, also subtitled. Watch it , it is a discussion in studio about reasons behind mandating masks outdoors, reports solely focusing on cases, and the need to change the strategy.


  • #2845
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    niallo27 wrote: »
    How can you say they are bollox, they are all legitimate questions. I'll stop now, listen your idea is in the right place its just not reachable.

    Because i see straight past them. If inverted , some of them sink your own arguments, that is why they are pointless.

    NI border to be figured out, probably not essential i the wider scheme.

    Look at the slope of cases/deaths from peak to the minimum to see how effective even a bad lockdown is and just imagine how much better we could be to improve from the current very low baseline (that is due to rise very quick).

    It would be almost non existent here and then all your we "have" to get back to reality arguments would actually be reasonable (so long as inward travel is very well controlled with a no loopholes approach).


  • #2846
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    walus wrote: »
    I suppose I understand complex and dynamic problems differently. For me lockdown is a crude, temporary way to buy some time as it is not a long term solution to a virus containment which is a long term problem. We have tried that and only now the government is waking up to the fact that they need a long term strategy to this.

    Ok and how do you approach the complex dynamic of a slowly dying economy with no end on sight from your world view?


  • #2847
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    i_surge wrote: »

    NI border to be figured out, probably not essential i the wider scheme.

    I wouldn't imagine there wouldn't be any issue sorting out the border.

    Those south Armagh guys are incredibly relaxed


  • #2848
    Assetbacked
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,969 ✭✭✭Assetbacked


    i_surge wrote: »
    Copy new zealand, job done. Im not some maniac with wild theories, other countries have exemplified how we should approach this and we are failing to follow.

    How will you pay for the long painful economic devestation we will endure on the current path.l?

    I admit policing it is hard, has to be buy in or it is useless. Only chance to earn your life back.

    Keep fighting it ;)

    You are actually a maniac keyboard warrior by advocating the impractical and unnecessary ****e that Ryan, Scally, McConckey etc want which is to get to zero covid cases in Ireland. It is just so ridiculous a notion that the proponents of it must have something wrong with them.


  • #2849
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    FintanMcluskey wrote: »
    I wouldn't imagine there would be any issue sorting out the border.

    Those south Armagh guys are incredibly relaxed

    Leave it open and agree with NI to control inward travel with tests and mandated quarantine. Things that work.

    The border isn't a problem in itself.


  • #2850
    i_surge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,093 ✭✭✭i_surge


    Assetbacked wrote: »
    You are actually a maniac keyboard warrior by advocating the impractical and unnecessary ****e that Ryan, Scally, McConckey etc want which is to get to zero covid cases in Ireland. It is just so ridiculous a notion that the proponents of it must have something wrong with them.

    It isn't ridiculous, trying to sleep with the enemy is.

    Not one of you have given a straight answer for how you think the economy is going to recover. Because you can't...it is all hopes and prayers


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  • #2851
    FintanMcluskey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,624 ✭✭✭FintanMcluskey


    i_surge wrote: »
    Leave it open and agree with NI to control inward travel with tests and mandated quarantine. Things that.

    Yeah, that won't happen.

    I suppose the argument comes down to efficiency.

    None of those proposals are efficient


This discussion has been closed.
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