How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Sammy2012 · 20-08-2020 11:53PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Would the management of the school be thinking that way, to discourage sick children from being sent in?

no idea behind the rational. But let's just say some families would be labelled already as ones to watch. But I think its just unfair on the children. Its not their fault. And what if noone can genuinely pick up the child for half an hour. Leave them sitting outside in the cold until then?!?!?

Queried · 20-08-2020 11:57PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

Summary

Dear Teacher,
PFO.
Regards

Pretty much :pac:

irishproduce · 20-08-2020 11:59PM

irishproduce wrote: »

Lots of ridicule and pointing out why schools can't open here..
Can a kind poster point me to a post on this forum that exhaustively outlines the correct and safe way to reopen the schools.
I'm genuinely interested to read what the ideal scenarios are.

Yeah this question has been lost in the general complaining and problem finding going on.
I'm not trolling, is there a reference to what is the preferred set of solutions to the problems identified?
I see loads of problems highlighted and that's fine, but I am not seeing the list of practical solutions..

Queried · 21-08-2020 12:01AM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

It will also put children off saying they are sick once they cop on what that entails . I can just imagine a child not saying anything until they puke all over the table

Some poor kids don't even realise they're sick until they've already puked all over the table, bless them. I've cleaned up enough of it in my time :pac:

Sammy2012 · 21-08-2020 12:01AM

irishproduce wrote: »

Yeah this question has been lost in the general complaining and problem finding going on.
I'm not trolling, is there a reference to what is the preferred set of solutions to the problems identified?
I see loads of problems highlighted and that's fine, but I am not seeing the list of practical solutions..

Well to start with smaller class sizes would be beneficial. Class sizes halved maybe but that would mean that kids would only attend every second week. Or maybe 2 days one week and 3 the other. This would mean that classes could fully adhere to SD guidelines.

Sammy2012 · 21-08-2020 12:02AM

Queried wrote: »

Some poor kids don't even realise they're sick until they've already puked all over the table, bless them. I've cleaned up enough of it in my time :pac:

As have I. Especially the smaller ones.

amacca · 21-08-2020 12:03AM

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Puts you in a very difficult position, being asked to do something that you can't in all honesty do. Not good, hope they sort it out before the return.

Has anyone heard about schools restricting toilet use, I've heard a few secondary schools going down this route. Again need to ask is this a balanced approach, is it necessary or even legal?

Well here is my experience of toilets in some schools long before the pandemic ...toilets were a place where there would be large congregations of students doing almostveverything except using it as a toilet

Picture groups if lads smoking, mess fighting, eating etc and having to be moved on day in day out .....they do this because they know its harder to supervise them in there, there are no cameras so you cant prove what they were smoking in there and as a group they can intimidate whoever has the unenviable task of moving them on and be late to class

Like a lot of things in life where you would like to be reasonable goons ruin it for decent people....maybe it will be different in the current environment but thats what some bathrooms are like pte pandemic and its next to impossible to gi after some of these assholes because their parents are sometimes even bigger assholes

That might be some of the reasins why some places need to restrict and police toilet use.....they had to do it befote any pandemic

Murple · 21-08-2020 12:04AM

Suckit wrote: »

Sorry if this has been asked and/or answered already, but are the schools going to have any staggered arrival/finishing for the classes or will everyone still be arriving at the same time?

We have staggered start and finish times. They make little sense and will lead to chaos, especially on wet days. We weren’t consulted but effectively, some staff members (not post holders) will be doing an extra 15 minutes per day and at least 20 minutes extra on a wet day.

Queried · 21-08-2020 12:06AM

Sammy2012 wrote: »

As have I. Especially the smaller ones.

I teach the senior end and many would be surprised by how often it happens!

khalessi · 21-08-2020 12:10AM

irishproduce wrote: »

Yeah this question has been lost in the general complaining and problem finding going on.
I'm not trolling, is there a reference to what is the preferred set of solutions to the problems identified?
I see loads of problems highlighted and that's fine, but I am not seeing the list of practical solutions..

The original plan by the government in their map to reopen the country was phase 5 a phased reopening of schools, whichthey threw out the window in favour of what we have now.

I was thinking for primary that we need children in schools to reopen the economy and there are a lot of childcare workers unemployed due to creches closing down who are already garda vetted. Could the government not have hired spaces, GAA parish halls etc. Classes could be split in half, one half in childcare, other half in school for 2 i/2 days and swap.

Group A Mon Tues 1/2 day Wed

deep clean between groups

Group B 1/2 day Wed Thurs Fri

This is a simplistic idea which could have been developed further. When with the childcare group they did homework, played exercised all using social distancing hand hygiene and PPE as appropriate.

Children would be in school/childcare for week and parents could work and school would have smaller groups

Its a quagmire

Leftwaffe · 21-08-2020 12:11AM

tayto lover wrote: »

I hope you’re right but for how long will they be open. Numbers on the increase hugely and if there’s a further spike linked with schools reopening then they could be closed again for even longer.

There is no need to hope, I am right. They are beginning to open next week, this is fact.

However, I agree with your further point, they won't stay open. I think they will close on an individual basis first of all. As the amount of closures begin to add up the gov will close them all, probably for a set period. Then a revised plan of a half return at a later date, blended online approach. Which should have happened in the first place.

Sunday Sunday · 21-08-2020 12:24AM

Did anyone catch prime time tonight?

I get the feeling we are headed for a long drawn out herd immunity strategy after watching it.

I suppose they can't really come out and say it but it sounds like a slow and long burn approach is where we are headed.

wirelessdude01 · 21-08-2020 12:28AM

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Did anyone catch prime time tonight?

I get the feeling we are headed for a long drawn out herd immunity strategy after watching it.

I suppose they can't really come out and say it but it sounds like a slow and long burn approach is where we are headed.

Well Leo the Lips did mention herd immunity about 10 days ago.

smellyoldboot · 21-08-2020 12:29AM

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Did anyone catch prime time tonight?

I get the feeling we are headed for a long drawn out herd immunity strategy after watching it.

I suppose they can't really come out and say it but it sounds like a slow and long burn approach is where we are headed.

When we let FF govern, we can't be remotely surprised when the most stupid option available is selected time and time again.

Queried · 21-08-2020 12:29AM

irishproduce wrote: »

Yeah this question has been lost in the general complaining and problem finding going on.
I'm not trolling, is there a reference to what is the preferred set of solutions to the problems identified?
I see loads of problems highlighted and that's fine, but I am not seeing the list of practical solutions..

It's not ideal but I think my main issue is class sizes. If we could have half the class in at a time I feel it would be much safer. So either shorter/half days where pupils come in for either morning or afternoon, or where students come in on alternate days, would be an idea. The time lost could be supplemented with online prerecorded lessons on platforms such as Google Classroom or Seesaw, and where this isn't possible, workpacks could be sent home.

Of course this is less than ideal and likely a logistical nightmare for parents, so I can see why this would be very unappealing. I think it would be much safer and give our schools a better chance of staying open though.

Sunday Sunday · 21-08-2020 12:30AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Well Leo the Lips did mention herd immunity about 10 days ago.

It will be a long uncertain road. After seeing the antibody results today too, definitely some if not all of which were tests run on actual hospital staff. If the numbers are that low among healthcare workers herd immunity could take years.

alroley · 21-08-2020 12:35AM

irishproduce wrote: »

Yeah this question has been lost in the general complaining and problem finding going on.
I'm not trolling, is there a reference to what is the preferred set of solutions to the problems identified?
I see loads of problems highlighted and that's fine, but I am not seeing the list of practical solutions..

That's funny as I've seen plenty.

- Option for parents to sign up to online learning - this could be taught by teachers that are high risk and need to work from home. Any parent that wants their child in school full-time can do that and our monster class sizes would be reduced.

- Blended learning for most (excluding those that would need to be in school everyday - additional needs etc.) consisting of 4 days in school and 1 day at home. 20% reduction of class size each day.

- Split classes that are larger than 20-24 and source additional buildings to put some classes. This was done in other countries with success.

Rollercoaster · 21-08-2020 01:09AM

Imagine the severe distress and guilt a child will feel if they contract COVID-19 in school and bring it back home causing the serious illness or death of a parent or older family member living in the same household.

In the long term the harm to the child from an event like this will well outweigh missing a year of classroom interaction.

Many posters are looking for solutions to the schools reopening. I would suggest that television is utilised similar to the excellent RTE Home School Hub but now for both for both primary and secondary schools. Homework could be submitted to the student’s actual teacher for correction. The teacher would be then aware of areas needing attention and could advise on a study plan and maybe meet in smaller and safer class groups with students on a weekly / fortnightly basis.

Even students with poor internet service will be able to receive TV in virtually every part of the country.

Compared to the logistics of bringing every student and teacher safely back to the classroom a TV school day should by relatively easy!

If it not safe for people to mix in the outside world then it is not safe for teachers and students to mix in a full classroom.

aaronm2966 · 21-08-2020 01:12AM

As a student myself we’ve got the news we are not allowed have lockers, in my opinion this is a joke. We have to lug around a school bag full of text books that could weigh anything as much as 20kg. For me this isn’t a huge issue but for younger teens and girls, it’s quite a lot to ask. when I started secondary school the weight of my bag was unbearable sometimes. I just don’t see how it will work. Anyone have any opinions on this matter. I’m new to boards by the way so I might be doing this wrong ðŸ˜¬

Scoondal · 21-08-2020 01:17AM

I was told that my son's pencil case must stay in the classroom. Bringing pencil cases home IS NOT ALLOWED.
I've more stupidity if anyone wants to know.

TheValeyard · 21-08-2020 01:19AM

Scoondal wrote: »

I was told that my son's pencil case must stay in the classroom. Bringing pencil cases home IS NOT ALLOWED.
I've more stupidity if anyone wants to know.

I'm not surprised. Sure many creches have stopped doing breakfast (same fees though) and must now have creche only shoes and weekly towel for hand washing.

BonsaiKitten · 21-08-2020 01:20AM

Scoondal wrote: »

I was told that my son's pencil case must stay in the classroom. Bringing pencil cases home IS NOT ALLOWED.
I've more stupidity if anyone wants to know.

That's actually a very smart idea even in non-Covid times. Means that kids will have all the supplies they need in school and shouldn't need to borrow pencils/sharpeners etc.

If you'd like more insight into how a classroom runs then let us professionals know.

Suckit · 21-08-2020 01:21AM

Rollercoaster wrote: »

Imagine the severe distress and guilt a child will feel if they contract COVID-19 in school and bring it back home causing the serious illness or death of a parent or older family member living in the same household.

In the long term the harm to the child from an event like this will well outweigh missing a year of classroom interaction.

Many posters are looking for solutions to the schools reopening. I would suggest that television is utilised similar to the excellent RTE Home School Hub but now for both for both primary and secondary schools. Homework could be submitted to the student’s actual teacher for correction. The teacher would be then aware of areas needing attention and could advise on a study plan and maybe meet in smaller and safer class groups with students on a weekly / fortnightly basis.

Even students with poor internet service will be able to receive TV in virtually every part of the country.

Compared to the logistics of bringing every student and teacher safely back to the classroom a TV school day should by relatively easy!

If it not safe for people to mix in the outside world then it is not safe for teachers and students to mix in a full classroom.

I had just ticked 'unfollow' the thread as I had only initially posted to find out about staggered times.
But your post reminded me of a few things.
About 2-3 years ago (may have been a longer) I saw a doc/program on TV about TV being invented purely for education - or that at least was the intention to use it commercially iirc. It was supposed to be an educational tool. The internet also had that intention among other things.
It would surely be easy enough to come up with a solution for the current situation using both of those tools to educate.
I know zoom could be used, but that is maybe limited unless the teacher has 4 or 5 laptops in front of them maybe. Even interactive TV.
Anyway, as I hadn't given any thought to it before I saw your post, I won't blurt out any ideas. Other than maybe use the licence fee correctly other than to pay pitiful presenters..

BonsaiKitten · 21-08-2020 01:25AM

Suckit wrote: »

I had just ticked 'unfollow' the thread as I had only initially posted to find out about staggered times.
But your post reminded me of a few things.
About 2-3 years ago (may have been a longer) I saw a doc/program on TV about TV being invented purely for education - or that at least was the intention to use it commercially iirc. It was supposed to be an educational tool. The internet also had that intention among other things.
It would surely be easy enough to come up with a solution for the current situation using both of those tools to educate.
I know zoom could be used, but that is maybe limited unless the teacher has 4 or 5 laptops in front of them maybe. Even interactive TV.
Anyway, as I hadn't given any thought to it before I saw your post, I won't blurt out any ideas. Other than maybe use the licence fee correctly other than to pay pitiful presenters..

Why would a teacher need 4 or 5 laptops? I taught via Zoom during shutdown. It wasn't perfect by any means but it got the job done under difficult circumstances.

I hope (but have little faith) that the department have some secret plan they're prepared to roll out if schools close. Wishful thinking I know.

For what it was and considering how quick it had to get off the ground, I thought the RTE home school hub was good. It could definitely be developed into a proper home schooling resource. Even doing things like Science or Art on it would be a help.

Edit: you say you've given it little thought but right now it seems like you've put in an awful lot more thought than our politicians

deiseindublin · 21-08-2020 01:31AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

No, not in Wexford. If confirmed it could mean three teams will need to be tested. Aprox 65/70 players plus management for one team.

Sounds like big club near me.

khalessi · 21-08-2020 01:32AM

Well thats this years CPD summer courses done. Brain aching.

Suckit · 21-08-2020 01:33AM

BonsaiKitten wrote: »

Why would a teacher need 4 or 5 laptops? I taught via Zoom during shutdown. It wasn't perfect by any means but it got the job done under difficult circumstances.

I hope (but have little faith) that the department have some secret plan they're prepared to roll out if schools close. Wishful thinking I know.

For what it was and considering how quick it had to get off the ground, I thought the RTE home school hub was good. It could definitely be developed into a proper home schooling resource. Even doing things like Science or Art on it would be a help.

Edit: you say you've given it little thought but right now it seems like you've put in an awful lot more thought than our politicians

That was just me thinking, to allow the teacher to properly see the students and ensure that they're not messing etc.. I haven't seen a zoom screen with a load of tiny faces on it

I only saw the end of home school hub, and it did seem excellent. And now with more relaxed restrictions it could possibly be better.

As for the politicians...

It does seem like a good idea that shouldn't take too much effort to get a working model up and running etc.. but I guess that will happen by default when kids don't turn up to school because their parents refuse to allow them.

khalessi · 21-08-2020 01:35AM

Scoondal wrote: »

I was told that my son's pencil case must stay in the classroom. Bringing pencil cases home IS NOT ALLOWED.
I've more stupidity if anyone wants to know.

Got the same request, along with covering all books this year in plastic so it can be wiped down after use and to wipe lunchbox and books with disinfectant wipes before putting them into bags.

If it helps to make a safer environment fine.

BonsaiKitten · 21-08-2020 01:49AM

Suckit wrote: »

That was just me thinking, to allow the teacher to properly see the students and ensure that they're not messing etc.. I haven't seen a zoom screen with a load of tiny faces on it

I only saw the end of home school hub, and it did seem excellent. And now with more relaxed restrictions it could possibly be better.

As for the politicians...

It does seem like a good idea that shouldn't take too much effort to get a working model up and running etc.. but I guess that will happen by default when kids don't turn up to school because their parents refuse to allow them.

Ah ok I get you. It's a bit of a pain yeah but tbh it wasn't too bad. I had two devices for my lessons, one being the laptop and the other an iPad on a stand which I used to show work.

The biggest issue with online instruction imo is equity. With my lot, it worked well because they come from privileged homes and have access to devices, supportive parents, materials for home learning...some of my friends would work with classes who don't have that. I heard about parts of the USA sending out school busses equipped with WiFi so that children could keep up with online learning.

Murple · 21-08-2020 01:55AM

Sunday Sunday wrote: »

Did anyone catch prime time tonight?

I get the feeling we are headed for a long drawn out herd immunity strategy after watching it.

I suppose they can't really come out and say it but it sounds like a slow and long burn approach is where we are headed.

Of course we’re going for the herd immunity strategy. After all, the UK tried it and found it didn’t work so now we have to try it. It’s the way we do things.

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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