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Masks

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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,907 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    No: other
    Nobody likes or enjoys wearing masks, but in the situation we find ourselves in, masks are being and will continue to be a great resource in stopping the spread of covid.

    With what’s going on we’ve all had to make decisions that we didn’t want to, that we were uncomfortable with... but the decisions and behaviors that when done by individuals, as a community and country were are are keeping people well.

    The times that we are living in requires us to all muck in, to be team players, health minded team players, making sacrifices and doing stuff that we might find uncomfortable for a time... be it wearing masks, socially distancing and more besides...

    What are the results of being team players ? We are keeping people healthy, well and alive. For themselves, families and loved ones... we are keeping pressures and stresses off hospitals, staff, their families....and so on...

    I’ve no issues sticking a mask on, none. For those who do, think of the above, think how much you doing your bit, the actual effect of wearing the mask and the example it shows to others too. Maybe you have to sacrifice as they are a bit uncomfortable , whatever... we are living through extraordinary times, so it’s appropriate extraordinary efforts are made to overcome feelings of discomfort while wearing a mask... the feeling of discomfort with a mask on vs the feeling that what you are doing is a small hand in a BIG fight to stop the spread of this illness... come on.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    robinph wrote: »
    Do you speed when driving past schools etc? Or do you consider the speed limits in place to actually be a reasonable requirement (mostly) for the population as a whole to follow in order to protect other people out using the streets and hospitals from unnecessary injuries needing to be treated?

    Why is following rules in relation to speed limits for the good of the whole OK, but following a rule regarding masks in enclosed spaces not?

    If you didn't actually care about other people you'd be driving as fast as possible everywhere as you are more important than the rest of us and don't personally know the other people on the street that you crash into, so therefore they don't matter to you and don't deserve to live if they are not quick enough to jump out of your way.

    No I abide by the speed limit. For the following reasons.

    Firstly I don't want to be fined, get points on my licence or get a criminal record for speeding, secondly I don't want to put myself at risk of serious injury or death due to my own dangerous driving I could easily be killed in car crash and I'm not vulnerable to cv19 as don't have underlying health conditions and finally I can plan my journey correctly so I don't need to drive faster than the speed limit.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    Yes: surgical
    I've seen a lot of people who are re-using disposable masks over and over. Cant blame them given you get 5 for about 7 euro. But, do they in any way realise how bacteria multiplies and how much they are breathing in each time they re-use the masks? Same situation with the re-usable ones unless they are washed after each use. I can see many bacterial chest infections coming to people soon.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,907 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    No: other
    GT89 wrote: »
    No I abide by the speed limit. For the following reasons.

    Firstly I don't want to be fined, get points on my licence or get a criminal record for speeding, secondly I don't want to put myself at risk of serious injury or death due to my own dangerous driving I could easily be killed in car crash and I'm not vulnerable to cv19 as don't have underlying health conditions and finally I can plan my journey correctly so I don't need to drive faster than the speed limit.

    Does anyone else come into your thinking ? Like speeding might kill or seriously injure a member of the public, or is EVERYTHING just about YOU ?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,839 ✭✭✭Nermal


    robinph wrote: »
    Do you speed when driving past schools etc? Or do you consider the speed limits in place to actually be a reasonable requirement (mostly) for the population as a whole to follow in order to protect other people out using the streets and hospitals from unnecessary injuries needing to be treated?

    The key word is reasonable.

    The speed limit could be set, nationally, to 20Km/H and we need never have fatalities in car accidents ever again.

    But we don't do that. We're happy to accept some fatalities in return for the convenience of quick travel.

    Why aren't we happy to accept some fatalities in return for the convenience of not having to wear a mask?

    Reasonableness is individually determined.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭almostover


    I've seen a lot of people who are re-using disposable masks over and over. Cant blame them given you get 5 for about 7 euro. But, do they in any way realise how bacteria multiplies and how much they are breathing in each time they re-use the masks? Same situation with the re-usable ones unless they are washed after each use. I can see many bacterial chest infections coming to people soon.

    Misuse of masks isnt a reason to stop people wearing them. A coordinated communication campaign on their correct usage however hasn't been forthcoming. Goverment haven't done well the last few weeks really


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Nermal wrote: »
    Reasonableness is individually determined.

    I think you'll find all sorts of areas where 'reasonable' is actually set by law.

    You mentioned speed limits, that's one good example.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,426 ✭✭✭almostover


    Nermal wrote: »
    The key word is reasonable.

    The speed limit could be set, nationally, to 20Km/H and we need never have fatalities in car accidents ever again.

    But we don't do that. We're happy to accept some fatalities in return for the convenience of quick travel.

    Why aren't we happy to accept some fatalities in return for the convenience of not having to wear a mask?

    Reasonableness is individually determined.

    I think because the inconvenience of wearing a mask is negligible?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,907 ✭✭✭✭Strumms


    No: other
    Nermal wrote: »
    The key word is reasonable.

    The speed limit could be set, nationally, to 20Km/H and we need never have fatalities in car accidents ever again.

    But we don't do that. We're happy to accept some fatalities in return for the convenience of quick travel.

    Why aren't we happy to accept some fatalities in return for the convenience of not having to wear a mask?

    Reasonableness is individually determined.

    Because wearing a mask, it’s easy, it’s as easy as putting on gloves... road deaths and accidents are just that, not all are down to choices people make before they leave the house. Nobody gets into a car saying “ well, I’m going to drive this yoke today whereby there will be a greater chance I can cause a crash and kill people and myself “...

    Wear a mask, the ecdc recommendation is valid, wear one.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    GT89 wrote: »
    No I abide by the speed limit. For the following reasons.

    Firstly I don't want to be fined, get points on my licence or get a criminal record for speeding, secondly I don't want to put myself at risk of serious injury or death due to my own dangerous driving I could easily be killed in car crash and I'm not vulnerable to cv19 as don't have underlying health conditions and finally I can plan my journey correctly so I don't need to drive faster than the speed limit.

    What about zebra crossings, no chance of injury to yourself in just driving through them and most of the time people will probably be quick enough to jump out of your way with no issues other than thinking your an arsehole. Unless being followed by a police car your not going to be stopped for it either so zero potential risks to you.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,839 ✭✭✭Nermal


    almostover wrote: »
    I think because the inconvenience of wearing a mask is negligible?

    It clearly isn't for everyone, or there wouldn't be a thread about it, would there?

    How about you start wearing a helmet in your car? Car accidents cause about half the traumatic brain injuries we suffer.

    I mean, it's a negligible inconvenience for you to keep a helmet in your car, and you might save your family and society the trouble of looking after a vegetable by doing so. What sort of sociopath wouldn't want to do that?
    Graham wrote: »
    I think you'll find all sorts of areas where 'reasonable' is actually set by law. You mentioned speed limits, that's one good example.

    Plainly it may be set by law. But I'm free to make my own judgement of whether it's reasonable or not.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,224 ✭✭✭zerosugarbuzz


    Yes: surgical
    almostover wrote: »
    Misuse of masks isnt a reason to stop people wearing them. A coordinated communication campaign on their correct usage however hasn't been forthcoming. Goverment haven't done well the last few weeks really

    Never said it was, I’ve worn masks since this started in March. Just saying, people need to be educated on bacteria and wear very clean masks.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    Nermal wrote: »
    How about you start wearing a helmet in your car? Car accidents cause about half the traumatic brain injuries we suffer.

    I mean, it's a negligible inconvenience for you to keep a helmet in your car, and you might save your family and society the trouble of looking after a vegetable by doing so. What sort of sociopath wouldn't want to do that?

    Everyone wearing a helmet in their car whilst driving on urban streets would likely cause more risk of injury to the rest of the public on the street as will reduce field of vision and less easy for people to turn their heads to look around. You'd need to make a better case for helmets to be worn in cars as standard. Seatbelts and airbags do more to reduce injury, whilst also not impairing ability in anyway.

    Wearing a helmet in a racing cars, open cockpit or closed, makes sense as far as limiting the risk of injury to the driver. They are all driving forwards, in the same direction, at similar speeds, nobody is coming at them from side road and there is no kids screaming at them from the back seat... but the risk of extreme injury is significantly higher for the driver than crashes driving at 30mph around the streets.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,712 ✭✭✭Hrududu


    So far, just today we’ve seen someone talk about scientific studies about mask wearing and this got hand waved away as bollix.

    We’ve had someone ask if masks aren’t effective would you be comfortable with your surgeon choosing not to wear one. When told it wasn’t the same we were then told that a big reason to not wear them is “because they look weird.”

    And that’s just today. In the space of a couple of hours. On one thread.

    I hope they’re all trolls I really do. Some of the nonsense I’ve seen from people were sharing this pandemic with is bizarre.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Nermal wrote: »
    How about you start wearing a helmet in your car? Car accidents cause about half the traumatic brain injuries we suffer.

    Knock yourself out (metaphorically speaking).

    Are traumatic brain injuries contagious now or are we back to obscure justifications again?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,336 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Today its masks tomorrow its Gardaí entering your house. Just so the government can appear to be doing something. But not a big worry just do as you're told.

    But in this thread... well, you might as well be banging your head off the wall for a while.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,643 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Today its masks tomorrow its Gardaí entering your house.

    :rolleyes:

    that is all


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,336 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Graham wrote: »
    :rolleyes:

    that is all

    How so? Is that not what the government is considering? Or is that off the table now?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,388 ✭✭✭✭rubadub


    robinph wrote: »
    Everyone wearing a helmet in their car whilst driving on urban streets would likely cause more risk of injury to the rest of the public on the street as will reduce field of vision and less easy for people to turn their heads to look around. You'd need to make a better case for helmets to be worn in cars as standard. Seatbelts and airbags do more to reduce injury, whilst also not impairing ability in anyway.
    It would not be like a motorbike or rally helmet. Cycling helmets are said to afford far more protection in a car than on a bike, and that is taking into account seatbelts & airbags. There are still loads of head injuries in cars with the current safety features, they are obviously not good enough.

    Go into any A&E department and if there is a patient from a car accident with a severe head injury, then ask the doctor if they think a helmet would have helped. For some odd reason this is only asked about cyclists.

    What is really odd is that loads of cyclists already own helmets which could be worn in a car, quite a few people will brand people insane to cycle without a helmet, and would never EVER cycle without one, think it is vital, yet would not dream of wearing it in the car! even though they may own one!

    this is the type of helmet that could be used
    headband1.jpg
    http://casr.adelaide.edu.au/developments/headband/
    The Centre has been evaluating the concept of a protective headband for car occupants. In about 44 percent of cases of occupant head injury, a protective headband, such as the one illustrated, would have provided some benefit. One estimate has put the potential benefit of such a device (in terms of reduced societal Harm) as high as $380 million, compared with $123 million for padding the upper interior of the car. This benefit derives from the fact that in a crash, the head strikes objects other than those that could be padded inside the car.


    https://golf.com/news/golfers-could-be-required-wear-helmets-under-new-proposal/
    Every golfer knows the assumed risk of possibly being hit by a ball when out playing a round of golf. Getting drilled by a golf ball can leave both minor and serious injuries to both golfers and spectators. So in order to prevent further injuries, could helmets be in the near future for golfers?

    That’s what one proposal based in the United Kingdom is seeking to do, according to Golf Punk. The new proposal across the pond, which is being pushed by a health, safety, and employment agency called Protecting.co.uk, is hoping to require golfers to have to wear crash helmets when playing golf.




    New York State Governor Mulls Car Helmet Compulsion To Discourage Motoring
    New York State Governor Andrew Cuomo told a press conference on January 23 that cars were “paralyzing” New York City and that motoring had to be discouraged with measures such as congestion pricing. When one reporter asked him if he would mandate car helmets for motorists—a measure that would likely dampen demand for motoring—he did not laugh off the suggestion.
    Streetsblog NYC’s Gersh Kuntzman then asked Cuomo if he might consider helmet compulsion for car drivers, given that vast numbers of car drivers involved in fatal crashes die as a result of head trauma.

    After a long pause, the governor said: “I’m thinking.”

    He then followed up with: “I don’t know enough. I’d like to see the data.”

    As well as being a safety measure, helmet compulsion for bicyclists is also knowingly or unknowingly used as a method to suppress cycling. It’s highly probable that if motorists had to wear head protection even for short, mundane journeys they would drive less. The wearing of helmets for everyday motoring might be dismissed as crazy, but getting behind the wheel of a car is perhaps the riskiest thing we do every day, yet few of us give head safety while driving a second’s thought. Individual motor journeys are not particularly risky, but they are so routine and frequent that the overall risk, over time, becomes more significant than customarily understood.

    Driving to a skydiving airstrip is far riskier than jumping out of the airplane, yet automobile-riding parachutists are not nagged to wear motoring helmets.

    And such products do exist. Well, did. As I have reported previously, an Australian motor accessories company marketed motoring helmets in the 1980s. (Davies Craig motoring helmets are sometimes available to buy on eBay.)

    “Motoring is a dangerous activity,” Davies Craig managing director Richard Davies once told me.

    “If a motorist is not killed in a crash, one of the most common injuries is a head injury, and they can produce permanent and long-term damage.”

    Despite the prevalence of car airbags, motorists still die from head injuries; head injuries that could have been prevented had those motorists been wearing helmets.

    In the 1980s, Davies’s company added a Motoring Helmet to a long list of its other automotive products. (Davies Craig is a manufacturer of electric water pumps, fan clutches, and other automotive components, exported all over the world.) The company’s Motoring Helmet was available globally—500 were sold between 1985 and 1987.

    “Commonly a head injury arises when the head strikes the A or B pillar, windscreen, or the head of another occupant,” Davies told me by email from Australia.

    Using an argument that is often wheeled out for helmet-less cyclists, he added: “Medical treatment is a drain on society.”

    The Davies Craig Motoring Helmet wasn’t for motorsports; it was for everyday driving. The helmet’s packaging featured families wearing helmets for urban motoring, and a businessman was shown wearing one while being driven by a similarly-clad chauffeur.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,213 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    How so? Is that not what the government is considering? Or is that off the table now?

    They enter your house if you are breaking restrictions.


    Or do you think they amble in for a cup of tea whenever they like?


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,336 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    pjohnson wrote: »
    They enter your house if you are breaking restrictions.

    When they suspect you may be breaking restrictions.

    And you're ok with that ye?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,213 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    When they suspect you may be breaking restrictions.

    And you're ok with that ye?

    Well I dont plan on breaking restrictions so it wont make any difference to me whether they are allowed or not.


    Do you find yourself frequently come to the attention of Gardai?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,839 ✭✭✭Nermal


    Graham wrote: »
    Knock yourself out (metaphorically speaking).

    Are traumatic brain injuries contagious now or are we back to obscure justifications again?

    They may not be contagious, but they certainly affect other people.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,336 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    pjohnson wrote: »
    Well I dont plan on breaking restrictions so it wont make any difference to me whether they are allowed or not.


    Do you find yourself frequently come to the attention of Gardai?

    That is not answering the question I asked you.

    No I dont, but thats none of your business anyway, you can stick your passive aggression elsewhere.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    Today its masks tomorrow its Gardaí entering your house. Just so the government can appear to be doing something. But not a big worry just do as you're told.

    But in this thread... well, you might as well be banging your head off the wall for a while.

    When exactly did this worldwide intergovernmental meeting take place where they all agreed to start requiring their populations to wear masks at some point in the beginning of 2020?

    What is the long term reasoning behind getting the populations to wear masks? If it's so that every government on the planet can then more easily persuade their population to comply with ever more slightly questionable things? Did this really get agreed worldwide by all governments and we've not heard a whisper about when this conspiracy was agreed on being leaked. Even just Ireland has has a change of government during the pandemic, did this all somehow also get agreed by all opposition parties as well at the same time?

    Or maybe the simple answer might be that masks reduce transmission of the virus and will help lower infection rates?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,336 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    There is no conspiracy. Just panic and arse covering and the usual bull. Only because this one is close to the bone everything is just so much more serious.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    There is no conspiracy. Just panic and arse covering and the usual bull. Only because this one is close to the bone everything is just so much more serious.

    But a moment ago you were claiming that the wearing of a mask was so that in the future the Gardi could come along and start breaking into our houses without first having a good reason to do so? What's that if not a claim of a conspiracy?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,336 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    robinph wrote: »
    But a moment ago you were claiming that the wearing of a mask was so that in the future the Gardi could come along and start breaking into our houses without first having a good reason to do so? What's that if not a claim of a conspiracy?

    I actually wasn't doing either.
    Today its masks tomorrow its Gardaí entering your house. Just so the government can appear to be doing something.

    There was no 'one measure prepares the other' implied. Just saying they're doing dangerously stupid stuff 'cos they're out of their depth and they need to be seen doing something. Not sure where you get the conspiracy thing from. As much as some people may want it to appear that way not everyone who is pointing out dangers and flaws and stupidity of our covid 'plan' is a conspiracy guy.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    I actually said why. And there was no hint of conspiracy.

    So masks may well be so that the governments can be seen to be doing something, but it is still something and there is scientific evidence to show that it is something.

    So where does the Gardi entering your house come into the prevention of spreading the virus. How is that related to mask wearing?
    Today its masks tomorrow its Gardaí entering your house. Just so the government can appear to be doing something. But not a big worry just do as you're told.

    But in this thread... well, you might as well be banging your head off the wall for a while.


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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,146 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    No: I don't care enough
    I actually wasn't doing either.



    There was no 'one measure prepares the other' implied. Just saying they're doing dangerously stupid stuff 'cos they're out of their depth and they need to be seen doing something.

    That is precisely what you stated with your line "Today its masks tomorrow its Gardaí entering your house" that one leads on from the other.


This discussion has been closed.
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