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Covid 19 Part XXI-27,908 in ROI (1,777 deaths) 6,647 in NI (559 deaths)(22/08)Read OP

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Comments

  • #6572
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    MD1990 wrote: »
    How can they. Children don't develop symptoms in most cases & probably wont socially distance either. Not enough testing
    They cant control the environment. Indoors will cause spread.

    Sports events are important for many people's mental health are outdoors 19 times safer & not caused an outbreak unlike the meat plants which are indoors.

    We will be in total lockdown now in October thanks to the insistence for schools to go back while they can do their classes online.

    I think schools should be online but have extra PE classes outdoors & have schools sports teams go ahead so they have some social interaction.

    You cant do online school for primary school kids. They don't have the attention span and not all homes will have the equipment.

    Also how do you handle dyslexia in online schooling?

    If both parents work from home it's not possible also


  • #6573
    landofthetree
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,464 ✭✭✭landofthetree


    MD1990 wrote: »
    How can they. Children don't develop symptoms in most cases & probably wont socially distance either. Not enough testing
    They cant control the environment. Indoors will cause spread.

    Sports events are important for many people's mental health are outdoors 19 times safer & not caused an outbreak unlike the meat plants which are indoors.

    We will be in total lockdown now in October thanks to the insistence for schools to go back while they can do their classes online.

    I think schools should be online but have extra PE classes outdoors & have schools sports teams go ahead so they have some social interaction.

    Cant do schools online as not everyone has high speed broadband?


  • #6574
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Not sure, I've seen the odd story about it and there was that party in a Cork club I think.

    So for a hand full of cases we shut sports down, maybe instead fine the people at the party?

    We never get anywhere


  • #6575
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    landofthetree wrote: »
    Cant do schools online as not everyone has high speed broadband?

    Also broadband is struggling with the work from home zoom calls.

    Virgjn in uk keeps crashing


  • #6576
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    MD1990 wrote: »
    How can they. Children don't develop symptoms in most cases & probably wont socially distance either. Not enough testing
    They cant control the environment. Indoors will cause spread.

    Sports events are important for many people's mental health are outdoors 19 times safer & not caused an outbreak unlike the meat plants which are indoors.

    We will be in total lockdown now in October thanks to the insistence for schools to go back while they can do their classes online.

    I think schools should be online but have extra PE classes outdoors & have schools sports teams go ahead so they have some social interaction.
    The control is in terms of how many catch it, in other words making the groupings as small as possible. There will be cases but we can't just shut down the education system every time one appears. Online classes have merits but they are an unnatural setup, especially for the very young. I'm not disagreeing on outdoor sports events but if people push that to maintain the social aspects
    risk can increase.


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  • #6577
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Not sure, I've seen the odd story about it and there was that party in a Cork club I think.

    None of the clubs had a case after that party in Cork

    It does seem that some cases of GAA members in Limerick and Clare are linked to parties


  • #6578
    completedit
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,639 ✭✭✭completedit


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    This needs to stop. Latvia is in the EU, they are free to leave any time they want.

    I worked with some Latvians in the IT sector, well paid, but sent the vast majority of this money back home (registered as a contractor there and paid no tax here) with the idea to retire in a few years. He now has a few properties there and has no need to work.

    Now meat packing isnt IT, but the minimum wage in Ireland is a decent salary for Latvia (where they are sending their money), they also likely arent paying any tax in Ireland (if the IT sector is to go on) - they would be in as independent contractors - which is why there are no sick days etc.

    Forcing companies to employ workers directly would likely end up costing them money as opposed to the current arrangement.

    Its not a slave operation, its people that are free to go at any point making a choice.

    Well said.

    Honestly it's so demeaning to relegate people to underprivileged abused migrants. These lads and girls are the equivalent of the Irish who go and work in New York in pubs and restaurants. Hours are ****e and conditions not great but they make good money and have a life experience. It's so arrogant for a country like Ireland to treat these people from a fellow EU country as if they're de facto surpressed second class citizens. Its a short hop on a flight to Latvia. They come here to make some dosh, it's not depressing. It's amazing for them, ****e work but they can then afford to pay for studies or buy a house or drive around Riga in a brand new whip. I get that often it comes from a good place but it unsettles me that there seems to be a view that these peopl exist purely as "migrant workers" and have no other option. Migration across EU in a world of low cost travel has changed. These people are here on their own terms and more power to them. If I was them I'd want to enjoy the time a bit more but we have Irish who do similar, who go away and work like crazy for a few years and come back with a heap of cash.


  • #6579
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,427 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    tigger123 wrote: »
    It's not about money, its about staffing. While you have health care staff sitting around doing nothing waiting for an emergency to break out, other health services and patients are being neglected.

    Did they not train the army to take on some contact tracing? I know the meat plants clusters they have specialised teams, HCW's who are skilled in that etc..m but with the community cases and all those home clusters, they don't need the specialists, the trained army could do it. Seems they dropped the ball big time. Or perhaps asleep at the wheel.


  • #6580
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    average_runner wrote: »
    So for a hand full of cases we shut sports down, maybe instead fine the people at the party?

    We never get anywhere
    Well, that's just one example. I see where they are coming from and logically it makes sense to restrict numbers of people together in one place. That doesn't mean that I agree with it or like it personally.


  • #6581
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    is_that_so wrote: »
    He has also said that community spread is a low proportion of cases and not the current driver of cases.

    That's reassuring thanks. Let's hope it stays that way.


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  • #6582
    is_that_so
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,136 ✭✭✭✭is_that_so


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    That's reassuring thanks. Let's hope it stays that way.
    Indeed, that's what this latest set of measures is about.


  • #6583
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    is_that_so wrote: »
    Well, that's just one example. I see where they are coming from and logically it makes sense to restrict numbers of people together in one place. That doesn't mean that I agree with it or like it personally.

    But they havent done that though. Churches are indoors as are most wedding receptions. Bars and restaurants in Kildare allowed to serve outdoors and possibly allowed to reopen fully come next Monday. Yet and outdoor event such as an u14 football game or junior soccer match has been targeted.

    I fully understand the need to mitigate people exposure to this virus but the govts logic is like something from a Mickey Mouse cartoon. It's crazy what they have done.


  • #6584
    billybonkers
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,293 ✭✭✭billybonkers


    polesheep wrote: »
    Many people die from illness every day. Once the hospitals are not overwhelmed and people die for want of treatment then that is all that matters.

    I think we want to avoid as many hospitalisations as possible.


  • #6585
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,819 ✭✭✭plodder


    Wolf359f wrote: »
    Did they not train the army to take on some contact tracing? I know the meat plants clusters they have specialised teams, HCW's who are skilled in that etc..m but with the community cases and all those home clusters, they don't need the specialists, the trained army could do it. Seems they dropped the ball big time. Or perhaps asleep at the wheel.
    If not the army then temporary (paid) work for people who want to help out. Or even contract out to call-centre companies. A lack of people to do it, should not be the limiting factor.


  • #6586
    smelly sock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,820 ✭✭✭smelly sock


    KrustyUCC wrote: »
    None of the clubs had a case after that party in Cork

    It does seem that some cases of GAA members in Limerick and Clare are linked to parties

    Members working in meat plans from what I hear.


  • #6587
    KrustyUCC
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,077 ✭✭✭KrustyUCC


    smelly sock wrote: »
    Members working in meat plans from what I hear.

    Hmmm that's interesting

    I Haven't heard of meat plant cases in Limerick or Clare


  • #6588
    caveat emptor
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,134 ✭✭✭caveat emptor


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    This needs to stop. Latvia is in the EU, they are free to leave any time they want.

    I worked with some Latvians in the IT sector, well paid, but sent the vast majority of this money back home (registered as a contractor there and paid no tax here) with the idea to retire in a few years. He now has a few properties there and has no need to work.

    Now meat packing isnt IT, but the minimum wage in Ireland is a decent salary for Latvia (where they are sending their money), they also likely arent paying any tax in Ireland (if the IT sector is to go on) - they would be in as independent contractors - which is why there are no sick days etc.

    Forcing companies to employ workers directly would likely end up costing them money as opposed to the current arrangement.

    Its not a slave operation, its people that are free to go at any point making a choice.


    So could we all set up as Latvian contractors. That would be great. Then we wouldn't have to pay tax here. I wonder what would happen to the schools and hospitals.

    It's a loop hole around minimum wage and taxes. The fact is that the tax should be payed where the money is earned. In a few years time we'll have 72 kids to a class and one ventilator if we all adopt that model.

    Same goes for the multinationals who don't pay any tax.


  • #6589
    wadacrack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,172 ✭✭✭wadacrack


    The decision on sports will be reversed in a week or so I think. Its unclear anyway at the minute. Or more clarity will be given . The government making illogical decisions last night has not went down well at all and all public trust is gone.


  • #6590
    wellwhynot
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 280 ✭✭wellwhynot


    Faith Fancy Lava wrote: »
    Have a weekend away booked with friends next weekend (rescheduled from April no less). Obviously with new restrictions this isn't allowed as we'll have more than 3 people from 3 different households. Should I wait for the company who own the holiday home to cancel on me?

    Why would the holiday home cancel?


  • #6591
    average_runner
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,884 ✭✭✭✭average_runner


    wadacrack wrote: »
    The decision on sports will be reversed in a week or so I think. Its unclear anyway at the minute. Or more clarity will be given . The government making illogical decisions last night has not went down well at all and all public trust is gone.

    Typical ff. Heard leo walked out


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  • #6592
    gifted
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,053 ✭✭✭gifted


    wadacrack wrote: »
    The decision on sports will be reversed in a week or so I think. Its unclear anyway at the minute. Or more clarity will be given . The government making illogical decisions last night has not went down well at all and all public trust is gone.

    I'm expecting the same.....first time that there has been such a back lash against new recommendations and it will be noticed by ministers


  • #6593
    giveitholly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,255 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    They expect the total cases from the mushroom factory in Golden to be between 40/50

    https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/home/567248/breaking-total-number-of-covid-cases-at-golden-mushroom-plant-may-be-between-forty-and-fifty.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


  • #6594
    plodder
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,819 ✭✭✭plodder


    caveat emptor wrote: »
    So could we all set up as Latvian contractors. That would be great. Then we wouldn't have to pay tax here. I wonder what would happen to the schools and hospitals.

    It's a loop hole around minimum wage and taxes. The fact is that the tax should be payed where the money is earned. In a few years time we'll have 72 kids to a class and one ventilator if we all adopt that model.

    Same goes for the multinationals who don't pay any tax.
    They certainly should be paying tax here, and there wasn't any evidence produced to show they don't, but I think the main point was that this is not modern day slave labour. Like the Keelings controversy a few months ago, these people come here voluntarily. I did the same when I was a student in fruit factories on the continent.


  • #6595
    giveitholly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,255 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    Outbreak in UHL,one patient and staff member after testing positive on a ward

    https://www.tipperarylive.ie/news/home/567220/latest-outbreak-of-covid-19-confirmed-at-university-hospital-limerick.html?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter


  • #6596
    Gael23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,151 ✭✭✭✭Gael23


    The government are in real danger now if losing the people


  • #6597
    iguana
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,917 ✭✭✭✭iguana


    is_that_so wrote: »
    The control is in terms of how many catch it, in other words making the groupings as small as possible.

    But they aren't doing that. If they were it would be possible that schools would work but as it stands there will be classes of 30+ kids together in a room with one teacher and in some cases an SNA who may be moving between classrooms. It's pretty much the exact same scenario as in Israel which led to 47% of all infections at the start of their second wave. It is almost certain that the way our schools are reopening will lead to multiple clusters. That was pretty much a certainty as it was a few weeks ago when our cases were low. But now that our 7 day average is moving towards triple figures, there is absolutely no way at all to claim that what we are supposed to be doing is remotely safe and feasible.

    And lets not pretend for one second that this is in our children's best interests. The vast, vast majority of children can continue to learn just fine at home. We have literally evolved to learn at a rapid rate in childhood. You'd actually have to work very hard to prevent your average child from learning in any environment. For the children with learning difficulties and at risk home lives, systems should be being put in place to help them. The main benefit to children from school is socialisation. But this stupid, stupid plan to send them to school without any real safety measures means that they are more likely to lose all of the social outlets they currently have. They have already lost a lot last night. We should be doing what we can to ensure they can keep what they do have for as long as possible. Not rushing to put them all back into the same building and risking us all being confined to our homes for months at a time through winter.

    They only reason schools are going back is for childcare. If this was 35 years ago and most children had a parent at home, it wouldn't even be a consideration. We'd have school on the tv and radio and that would be the end of the discussion. It would have been so much better to have just admitted that and have worked out a childcare pod system. It would have been harder but it won't be fuçking harder than dealing with clusters in school. It won't be harder than dealing with the absolute clusterfuçk that will happen when someone catches the virus at school and gives it to granny and she's on a ventilator and the parent is crying on the phone to Joe Duffy.


  • #6598
    Akabusi
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,136 ✭✭✭Akabusi


    Yesterday was embarrassing, I don't care if Leo is playing political games, he is correct. I'll follow the guidelines that make sense to the letter, not some of the crap from yesterday.
    We have seen how poor governance in other countries has led to thousands of deaths, with the exception of the nursing homes being forgotten about from the last Government our time for poor governance is now starting.


  • #6599
    road_high
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,871 ✭✭✭✭road_high


    average_runner wrote: »
    Typical ff. Heard leo walked out

    Where you hear that?! Sweet Jesus, I’d love to know all the juicy details


  • #6600
    MOR316
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,249 ✭✭✭MOR316


    Just on a lighter note, to get away from the heavy stuff for a moment...

    What's with the D4s and their pronunciation of the virus' name? "Cow-vid 19" :D:D


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  • #6601
    giveitholly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,255 ✭✭✭giveitholly


    Gael23 wrote: »
    The government are in real danger now if losing the people

    They have lost a lot of the people already I reckon,we laughed at Boris Johnson a couple of months ago our leadership are giving him a run for their money


This discussion has been closed.
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