Using DeGiro

p to the e · 06-08-2020 12:01pm

In the Portfolio window is the column "+/-€" showing crazy results for anyone else?

dotsman · 06-08-2020 12:12pm

p to the e wrote: »

In the Portfolio window is the column "+/-€" showing crazy results for anyone else?

Yeah, I've long since stopped trusting those figures. Years ago, it could be explained by currency fluctuations, but over the past few months, I have seen ridiculous values in those fields.

Not too worried about it as the overall value of the portfolio is always correct, but it is annoying and confusing that these figures seem to just go crazy from time to time.

Shedite27 · 06-08-2020 12:44pm

dotsman wrote: »

Yeah, I've long since stopped trusting those figures. Years ago, it could be explained by currency fluctuations, but over the past few months, I have seen ridiculous values in those fields.

Not too worried about it as the overall value of the portfolio is always correct, but it is annoying and confusing that these figures seem to just go crazy from time to time.

I imported my positions to YAhoo Finance, far more accurate and better info

ShareShare · 06-08-2020 1:43pm

dotsman wrote: »

Yeah, I've long since stopped trusting those figures. Years ago, it could be explained by currency fluctuations, but over the past few months, I have seen ridiculous values in those fields.

Not too worried about it as the overall value of the portfolio is always correct, but it is annoying and confusing that these figures seem to just go crazy from time to time.

I've been with degiro years and spend alot of that time confused. Over time i learned how they are calculating little bits. So although they are usually correct.. the meaning of them is usually obscure and non intuitive.

for example,
On the mobile app, portfolio section, when it says Price * qty
it says down (3.40%).. but it has green +227.88. The stock is down 3.40% today.. not my shares in it.. but green number applies to my shares.. So it looks like i am up even if the stock is down.. Thats because i bought at a dip

Another oddity i believe is, this daily +227.88 from todays purchase DOES include transaction costs + london financial tax.
If i press on the QTY, and it shows me the totals screen with the BEP number..
My green number changed to +320.. This DOES NOT include the london tax but still has the transaction fees.... so as a total.. its pretty stupid not to include the taxes i was charged to buy it.
And now the percentage is now ONLY about my shares, and not about the stock today.

I find odd things like this in many numbers

rugbyman · 06-08-2020 3:25pm

Chinese Whospers

I am at the position you were at on 3.8..20 at 15.00

did test, products page, blue box

you posted you were back on yesterday 5.8.20
when did it come right, did you do anything

Thanks

06-08-2020 6:38pm

rugbyman wrote: »

Chinese Whospers

I am at the position you were at on 3.8..20 at 15.00

did test, products page, blue box

you posted you were back on yesterday 5.8.20
when did it come right, did you do anything

Thanks

Sorry to hear that. I had emailed/phoned them, withdrew liquid funds. Not sure if any of that made a difference as per another user I eventually got an email saying they reversed that decision. But you still needed to take at least two tests. The second one of which wasn't available for some time.

rugbyman · 06-08-2020 11:06pm

thanks for info. i did a test ,most questions were on ETFs ,of which I knew little. I scored 10/15, and it said I passed . i did the products settings page , got a blue slider on one section Share, trading

I dont see anything about doing a second test.

I send an e mail and got a standard, we are very busy reply

Thank you

rugbyman · 07-08-2020 8:44am

Thanks again Chinese Whospers, no further on this morning ,so did another test,passed it,.... no better , rang contact number, got immediate answer, guy there sorted me , I had to go into second paragraph of "products settings" and get another thingy to turn blue,

bought then

Hope others may benefit from this, it seems a strange process
GLA

kegblag · 07-08-2020 3:21pm

I've switched from having my cash in that fund to the bank account. Happy to have an IBAN to transfer to directly.

However I like to use N26 to fund it, my main account is BOI and transfers from there tended to take 1-2 days to arrive. Long enough to get me worried each time. N26 transfers show up within a couple hours.
But on switching to the bank account for cash option, it then says you can only fund it with your primary bank account - which was BOI. So I swapped my primary to being N26.
Now I've got an email saying since my residence and bank aren't in the same country my W8-BEN is no longer valid.

Is the W8-BEN mainly relating to dividends? If so I might leave it until I buy a dividend paying US share.

For same day transfers from Irish banks which bank would people recommend?

(Can't get around this by switching the primary as needed to BOI or N26 - since they limit the switch to just 3 times a year - and I've two left I guess.)

Nemeses2050 · 07-08-2020 4:04pm

How long is it taking for money to reach your Degiro/Flatex account? previously it took few hours

Shedite27 · 07-08-2020 4:07pm

I've transferred from AIB to the new bank account in 2 hours (bout 2pm to 4pm same day). I didn't get the usual "your deposit has arrived" email, so check your degiro account to see where it lands.

rugbyman · 07-08-2020 4:11pm

Kegblag,
i am not too sure what is happening, but i think I read ,on this thread, that transfers from say,BoI will go within hours now.
my few BoI to Degiro took less than 24 hours
Regards

Nemeses2050 · 07-08-2020 4:23pm

Shedite27 wrote: »

I've transferred from AIB to the new bank account in 2 hours (bout 2pm to 4pm same day). I didn't get the usual "your deposit has arrived" email, so check your degiro account to see where it lands.

I'm with AIB too, I transferred yesterday around 11 ish, however don't see it on Degiro account yet.

kegblag · 07-08-2020 5:11pm

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

How long is it taking for money to reach your Degiro/Flatex account? previously it took few hours

Thanks for the replies.

I've not tried from BOI ->DeGiro for a few months, it was sometimes one day and sometimes two days. I was wondering if BOI batched some transfers up and sent them out every couple days. (I'd always send early enough in the morning so it shouldn't be due to a 1 or 2pm cutoff.) I was getting annoyed and was about to switch to maybe AIB or KBC when N26 showed up as a simpler option.

However unlike BOI->DeGiro BOI -> N26 has always been reliably next working day. I've come to trust that - usually get an N26 notification around 8am the following day.

I may switch back from N26 to BOI as primary and send a test euro on Monday morning and see how long it takes, but the 3 primary switches a year limit might mean I delay that test.

Annoying as well that funding DeGiro was my main use for the N26 account.

Shedite27 · 09-08-2020 10:24pm

Anyone have an online broker that trades OTC shares?

Shedite27 · 09-08-2020 10:24pm

Anyone have an online broker that trades OTC shares?

Nemeses2050 · 10-08-2020 10:06am

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

I'm with AIB too, I transferred yesterday around 11 ish, however don't see it on Degiro account yet.

This was credited this morning,hope it won't take this long going forward. I had tansferred it on Thursday morning.

Mav11 · 11-08-2020 9:17am

Nemeses2050 wrote: »

This was credited this morning,hope it won't take this long going forward. I had tansferred it on Thursday morning.

Just checking. Signed up for the new bank a/c. Do I take it that Degiro has now to be set up as a new payee, with the new details in my own bank for transfer of funds?

outonawing · 11-08-2020 9:33am

Mav11 wrote: »

Just checking. Signed up for the new bank a/c. Do I take it that Degiro has now to be set up as a new payee, with the new details in my own bank for transfer of funds?

Haven't done a transfer yet, as you're transferring to a new account, I presume that you'll have to set up a new payee.

Nemeses2050 · 11-08-2020 9:50am

Mav11 wrote: »

Just checking. Signed up for the new bank a/c. Do I take it that Degiro has now to be set up as a new payee, with the new details in my own bank for transfer of funds?

Yes that's right, if you go into Deposit/Withdraw tab, you'll see new Bank details which you have to use going forward.

gadarnol · 12-08-2020 11:55am

Setting up degiro: I'm asked for a taxation id number. Is this usual and what is usually supplied? Thanks.

12-08-2020 12:04pm

gadarnol wrote: »

Setting up degiro: I'm asked for a taxation id number. Is this usual and what is usually supplied? Thanks.

Your PPSN.

Not sure what level of automatic reporting DeGiro is obliged to supply Revenue for Irish customer results.

rugbyman · 12-08-2020 6:15pm

I have read through most of this thread. I am a contented user of Degiro.
I believe it is possible to short on the Irish stock exchange(among others).
I have read their blurb on shorting , they call something else.
Could anyone who knows a bit about it ,take a few minutes of your life to explain what and how it works.

to show my limited knowledge, they,Degiro will loan me someones shares , sell them for me and wait until I instruct them to buy those same shares and return them, leaving me with the profit,less their costs

Hoping to hear something

Regards

Shedite27 · 12-08-2020 8:18pm

rugbyman wrote: »

I have read through most of this thread. I am a contented user of Degiro.
I believe it is possible to short on the Irish stock exchange(among others).
I have read their blurb on shorting, they call something else.
Could anyone who knows a bit about it ,take a few minutes of your life to explain what and how it works.

to show my limited knowledge, they,Degiro will loan me someones shares , sell them for me and wait until I instruct them to buy those same shares and return them, leaving me with the profit,less their costs

Hoping to hear something

Regards

No offence, but before you go near Shorting, you need to know a LOT more about the process. If you dont undertand it, you shouldn't be anywhere near it. I'd imagine most get years experience of buying stocks before shorting anything.

First thing to understand, is that the process you described (Shorting) has unlimited potential losses (though likely Degiro will call in your debt before you have a chance to make profit).

If you're adamant you want to bet against a stock market, there are funds available that track the opposite of most indexes. So essentially you could invest your money in a fund, and you profit when the ISEX goes down, ans lose money when the ISEQ goes up. Might be a safer bet

rugbyman · 12-08-2020 10:53pm

Thank you Shedite , I intend to tread warily.
Thanks again for your advice
I am not so sure how I could lose much money, I presume it is if the market rises instead of falls.
Whereas with betting against a share and leverage comes in ,considerable losses might ensue.

GLA

Shedite27 · 13-08-2020 9:15am

rugbyman wrote: »

Thank you Shedite , I intend to tread warily.
Thanks again for your advice
I am not so sure how I could lose much money, I presume it is if the market rises instead of falls.
Whereas with betting against a share and leverage comes in ,considerable losses might ensue.

Yes, if you are supporting a stock (long), the share price of $10 today can go up to $30 and you make 200% profit, whereas it goes to $0 and you make 100% loss.

If you go short, the opposite is true, the maximum profit is 100%, but the maximum loss is whatever the share price rises to.

Essentially with shorting you're giving an IOU on a stock. So today if CRH stock is $30, you borrow them from me, whenever you decide to send them back, you get the difference between $30 and the price that day. The problem is the lads who short something and that thing announces a surprise merger or something the next day.

When you're shorting a whole index, the risk of a one off is less, but you're now betting that a majority of the sectors in the economy is going to go down. Might happen, but normally doesn't last long.

13-08-2020 10:44am

Shedite27 wrote: »

Yes, if you are supporting a stock (long), the share price of $10 today can go up to $30 and you make 200% profit, whereas it goes to $0 and you make 100% loss.

If you go short, the opposite is true, the maximum profit is 100%, but the maximum loss is whatever the share price rises to.

Essentially with shorting you're giving an IOU on a stock. So today if CRH stock is $30, you borrow them from me, whenever you decide to send them back, you get the difference between $30 and the price that day. The problem is the lads who short something and that thing announces a surprise merger or something the next day.

When you're shorting a whole index, the risk of a one off is less, but you're now betting that a majority of the sectors in the economy is going to go down. Might happen, but normally doesn't last long.

To add, correct me if I'm wrong.

Degiro will only allow you to short x amount of stock based on your current bank balance with them. And if a stock rises to an amount that's less than your current balance (say, 80% - just a guess) they'll ask you to fund your account. If you dont within a certain amount of time they'll buy shares with your available funds to cover your short.

Shedite27 · 13-08-2020 11:59am

Deleted User wrote: »

To add, correct me if I'm wrong.

Degiro will only allow you to short x amount of stock based on your current bank balance with them. And if a stock rises to an amount that's less than your current balance (say, 80% - just a guess) they'll ask you to fund your account. If you dont within a certain amount of time they'll buy shares with your available funds to cover your short.

Correct, there's a formula somewhere in their site, it's related to how much you have invested, and how much your shares are up, so changes every day.

gadarnol · 13-08-2020 1:21pm

This point on shorting is one that worries me when I reach the basic or custody profile. I understand that with basic that my shares may be lent to a shorter. Are there scenarios of bankruptcy where I have signed an agreement with deGiro and become liable for the shorter's losses made with my lent shares even though deGiro lent them? Any advice welcome. I haven't advanced to choose a profile yet and want to use deGiro for long term access to shares and also to buy shares that I believe will rise.

Bob24 · 13-08-2020 1:27pm

gadarnol wrote: »

This point on shorting is one that worries me when I reach the basic or custody profile. I understand that with basic that my shares may be lent to a shorter. Are there scenarios of bankruptcy where I have signed an agreement with deGiro and become liable for the shorter's losses made with my lent shares even though deGiro lent them? Any advice welcome. I haven't advanced to choose a profile yet and want to use deGiro for long term access to shares and also to buy shares that I believe will rise.

The scenario whereby you lose some of your assets requires the following conditions to be met all at the same time:
- the borrower becomes insolvent
- Degiro becomes insolvent (they are your counter-party in the lending operation, not the borrower)
- The value of the collateral which was provided drops below the value of the shares you were lending

In the above scenario, you would lose the difference between the value of the collateral and the value of your shares.

The probability of all 3 conditions above happening at the same time is extremely low, because as soon at there is a red flag with either of them, there is an opportunity to either address it or terminate the loan. For example if the value if the collateral drops below a certain safety level, Degiro will requests the short seller either to increase their collateral very quickly or to close the position, and if the borrower doesn't do that Degiro will liquidate their position and return your shares. But of course that probability isn't 0 (if you want to make it 0, you have to go for a custody profile whereby there will be no lending of your securities).

gadarnol · 13-08-2020 1:33pm

Bob24 wrote: »

The scenario whereby you lose some of your assets requires the following to conditions to be met at the same time:
- the borrower becomes insolvent
- Degiro becomes insolvent (they are your counter-party in the lending operation, not the borrower)
- The value of the collateral which was provided drops below the value of the shares you were lending

In the above scenario, you would lose the difference between the value of the collateral and the value of your shares.

I get the generality of what you are saying and you can tell the next question: what does collateral refer to here?

Bob24 · 13-08-2020 1:41pm

gadarnol wrote: »

I get the generality of what you are saying and you can tell the next question: what does collateral refer to here?

I am not 100% sure of all their lending practices, but I assume for the most part those are other securities (but I believe it could also be cash).

Edit: this document confirms my assumption that if can either be other securities or cash:

DEGIRO wrote:

DEGIRO requires security from the borrowing party. If the borrowing party is a client of DEGIRO, the borrowing party provides security with the right of pledge that DEGIRO has on the Balance of that client and the borrowed Securities are included in the continual risk monitoring of DEGIRO. In other cases, the borrowing party must provide security by transferring money or Securities to SPV, which SPV may use in the event of the failure of the borrowing party to buy back the Lent Securities in the market.

Atlas_IRL · 14-08-2020 11:06am

There is a new form in degiro to open a cash account with a company called flatex who bought degiro. I done it but dont know much about it tbh. You have to change your bic/iban to that to send money in the future.

Bob24 · 14-08-2020 1:30pm

Atlas_IRL wrote: »

There is a new form in degiro to open a cash account with a company called flatex who bought degiro. I done it but dont know much about it tbh. You have to change your bic/iban to that to send money in the future.

Yep, instead of storing your cash balance on a MMF, it is now lodged on a deposit account with Flatex.

rugbyman · 14-08-2020 6:44pm

Atlas_IRL wrote: »

There is a new form in degiro to open a cash account with a company called flatex who bought degiro. I done it but dont know much about it tbh. You have to change your bic/iban to that to send money in the future.

Are you sure I have to change ,Atlas. I dont think I was notified of this, does the same link not work.

rugbyman · 14-08-2020 6:45pm

I might try a test run

Bob24 · 14-08-2020 7:29pm

rugbyman wrote: »

Are you sure I have to change ,Atlas. I dont think I was notified of this, does the same link not work.

Yep it is mandatory to open the Flatex account as the MMF will eventually disappear. But it is done gradually so not all customers are moving at the same time.

This page is pretty clear about the MMF eventually going away:

With the introduction of the Cash Accounts, we will gradually end the MMF solution for holding uninvested money. This means that in the future, you will no longer be able to automatically hold your money in MMF's via the standing order. We will communicate the exact dates and details by e-mail.

SchrodingersCat · 14-08-2020 7:32pm

Does anyone have experience with transferring their portfolio to Degiro? How long does it take? I opened an account a week ago and emailed them a completed transfer form on Tuesday. No response to the email yet.

outonawing · 14-08-2020 8:19pm

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Does anyone have experience with transferring their portfolio to Degiro? How long does it take? I opened an account a week ago and emailed them a completed transfer form on Tuesday. No response to the email yet.

I attempted a transfer into DeGiro a couple of months ago and got an email saying that they were not accepting transfers at that time.

ganmo · 14-08-2020 8:59pm

I've recently found the agenda section on DeGiro, looking at the dividends for the coming week etc, there's a few things that is puzzling me.
1. There's companies showing massive dividend yield (40%) but when i google for more information the company has never paid a dividend and i couldn't dig up any announcement of paying a dividend.

2. their calculation of dividend yield for other companies is a bit iffy too. take Irish residential properties, dividend of 2.75c coming up, share price of €1.5 gives me a yield of 1.83% yet the Degiro page says 3.79%(about double my calculation).

What am I missing? or is their something funky on their side?

SchrodingersCat · 17-08-2020 8:40am

outonawing wrote: »

I attempted a transfer into DeGiro a couple of months ago and got an email saying that they were not accepting transfers at that time.

Thanks, hopefully that is still not the case. Did it take long for them to respond? It's been nearly a week now sice I emailed them.

17-08-2020 8:44am

outonawing wrote: »

I attempted a transfer into DeGiro a couple of months ago and got an email saying that they were not accepting transfers at that time.

Do you have a custody account?

outonawing · 17-08-2020 9:51am

SchrodingersCat wrote: »

Thanks, hopefully that is still not the case. Did it take long for them to respond? It's been nearly a week now sice I emailed them.

They replied within 24 hours.

outonawing · 17-08-2020 9:51am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Do you have a custody account?

No, I don't.

17-08-2020 9:57am

outonawing wrote: »

No, I don't.

Cheers. I was wondering if that was a possible reason. They are less favourable to custody accounts, but this wasn't the reason in this case.

outonawing · 17-08-2020 11:43am

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Cheers. I was wondering if that was a possible reason. They are less favourable to custody accounts, but this wasn't the reason in this case.

Perhaps I should have added for clarity, that they said if I replied to the email, they would notify me when the policy changed back again.

SchrodingersCat · 17-08-2020 12:48pm

outonawing wrote: »

They replied within 24 hours.

Thanks for this information. I will send them a follow up email.

17-08-2020 1:41pm

Can I ask what's your experience of using Margin to buy shares through DeGiro?

outonawing · 17-08-2020 1:58pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Can I ask what's your experience of using Margin to buy shares through DeGiro?

Don't buy unless I've got the cash.

rugbyman · 17-08-2020 2:10pm

I am a rather happy user of Degiro

it tells me at 8 a.m.what my portfolio is worth, showing the price of my only share. Though the site tells me the prices are 15 mins behind. I dont know if I can trade before 08.15.What my question is really is ,amI buying at the actual time, the site shows bid offers and sale offers.

The site shows the total number of shares traded at any time ,but it appears to be just the number traded with them.

GLA

Using DeGiro

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