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Rail line to Adare for Ryder Cup

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    #122
    Ireland trains
    Registered Users Posts: 371 ✭✭Ireland trains


    https://www.limerickpost.ie/2020/08/10/cabinet-discuss-potential-e200m-limerick-suburban-rail-line/


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    #123
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Ireland trains wrote: »
    https://www.limerickpost.ie/2020/08/10/cabinet-discuss-potential-e200m-limerick-suburban-rail-line/

    It'd be great if Limerick Green Party TD, Brian Leddin would explain
    1. How much demand there is for this line
    2. How much maintenance per annum will be
    3. How much the subvention per passenger will be.

    He might have a look at the Ballybrophy to Limerick line, it is only costing €550 per passenger. Another great legacy of Alan Kelly along with Irish Water.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/railway-line-is-costing-550-per-passenger-to-run-1.2867906


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    #124
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Demand would be very high the lines flow through the city and through all the major residential areas and commuter towns.

    You can't compare to the Ballybrophy line that's comparing apples and oranges


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    #125
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    It'd be great if Limerick Green Party TD, Brian Leddin would explain
    1. How much demand there is for this line
    2. How much maintenance per annum will be
    3. How much the subvention per passenger will be.

    He might have a look at the Ballybrophy to Limerick line, it is only costing €550 per passenger. Another great legacy of Alan Kelly along with Irish Water.

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/railway-line-is-costing-550-per-passenger-to-run-1.2867906


    I can't see how the deplorable situation on the Limerick/Ballybrophy line can be laid at the door of Alan Kelly as the route has been run into the ground for decades. Adare/Limerick could be a very worthwhile route and housing developments encouraged to follow it - proper planning instead of trying to shoehorn infrastructure in as an afterthought.

    ****



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    #126
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    kilburn wrote: »
    Demand would be very high the lines flow through the city and through all the major residential areas and commuter towns.

    You can't compare to the Ballybrophy line that's comparing apples and oranges

    The line is no use to anyone not working in Raheen and living along the line. Practically nobody works in the city center and most want to go to Plassey, Annacotty or even Shannon. These places can't be reached along this line.

    By the time this would be built there will be a motorway bypass of Adare. A large park and ride near Patrickswell and direct bus services to the major industrial estates around the outskirts of the city via the motorway would make more sense IMO. And save most of the €200m.


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    #127
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Disappointing that a Limerick person would be this dismissive of public transport improvements for the city and county


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    #128
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,347 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    kilburn wrote: »
    Disappointing that a Limerick person would be this dismissive of public transport improvements for the city and county
    €200m could be much better spent in Limerick than a railway line to Adare. The same Adare that will soon have a congestion free motorway to the city which is well able for improved bus services.


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    #129
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    kilburn wrote: »
    Disappointing that a Limerick person would be this dismissive of public transport improvements for the city and county

    Believe it or not, buses are public transport.


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    #130
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Believe it or not, buses are public transport.

    That doesn't fit the agenda....public transport has to be
    1. Expensive (a machine full of paint to type "Lána Bus" isn't swish enough)
    2. Poorly thought out (i.e. no chance of changing the route to get more passengers)
    3. Massively government subsidised (e.g. Ballybrophy to Limerick)
    4. Be a photo opportunity for the minister involved.


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    #131
    Pete_Cavan
    Registered Users Posts: 6,716 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    I'm not sure that restoring heavy rail services there would work, both in terms of buildability and the service offered after opening. The double track part of that line doesn't go very far south, just after the N18. It is also wedged between the edge of development and the motorway, so limited accessibility and serves little or no development to the east. I'm not sure how Colbert would handle a meaningful level of commuter services from multiple lines terminating there, as well as intercity trains, and it isn't set up for thru services.

    I think that old alignment, or parts of it, would be better used for light rail. From Raheen Business Park go on street along St Nessan's Road past UHL and existing residential development, swing around by Crescent Shopping Centre and use the double track line to Colbert. It can then run to UL and Castletroy in a way that heavy rail can't do. Adare is probably too far for a light rail system to run, Patrickswell would be more appropriate. A P&R at Patrickswell could serve Adare.

    In any case, I can't see there being any sort of rail to Adare by the time of the Ryder Cup, there are just too many hurdles to jump in that time remaining.


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    #132
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    marno21 wrote:
    €200m could be much better spent in Limerick than a railway line to Adare. The same Adare that will soon have a congestion free motorway to the city which is well able for improved bus services.


    The article is different to the thread headline they want to spend 200m restoring the light railway line infrastructure in the city including building stations at the likes of Moyross, Ballysimon, Corbally and the commuter towns.

    They don't want to spend 200m building a railway line to Adare.

    Only in Ireland would people be against the 3rd largest city having it's own light rail system when the bloody tracks are pretty much there already.


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    #133
    Dats me
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Dats me


    The rail line to Foynes is shovel ready right? Is that where €200m is coming from? How could Ennis-Athernry be €100m and Limerick-Adare be €200m? Leddin doesn't seem like a spoofer but it would seem the €200m is completely made up?


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    #134
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    kilburn wrote: »
    The article is different to the thread headline they want to spend 200m restoring the light railway line infrastructure in the city including building stations at the likes of Moyross, Ballysimon, Corbally and the commuter towns.

    They don't want to spend 200m building a railway line to Adare.

    Only in Ireland would people be against the 3rd largest city having it's own light rail system when the bloody tracks are pretty much there already.

    You don't build light rail on heavy rail tracks. To use that alignment the tracks would need to be ripped out and light rail tracks installed. That's never going to happen on CIE owned lines. And you definitely don't build a light rail track out to Adare where most of the line is running through rural countryside.

    Limerick doesn't have the population density for 1 light rail system, never mind a network. It needs a much better bus service and park and rides around the outskirts with routes taking in all the major employments centers and shopping areas.

    This is another example of Green idealism versus reality.


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    #135
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    Dats me wrote: »
    The rail line to Foynes is shovel ready right? Is that where €200m is coming from? How could Ennis-Athernry be €100m and Limerick-Adare be €200m? Leddin doesn't seem like a spoofer but it would seem the €200m is completely made up?

    Shovel ready means that something has been designed, gone through ABP and is ready to build once the money is allocated. This is nothing more than a pie in the sky idea and is most definitely not shovel ready.


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    #136
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Jesus wept light rail or heavy rail I don't know he wants to use the current infrastructure for example the Ennis train would stop at the new stations built what is the problem with adding stations on that line and giving people an option.

    So negative it's unbelievable sometimes.


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    #137
    Cookiemunster
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 11,831 Mod ✭✭✭✭Cookiemunster


    It's not negativity, it's realism.


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    #138
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Cookiemunster wrote:
    It's not negativity, it's realism.


    Realism says that putting stations on a current commuter route is pie in the sky ?


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    #139
    LuasSimon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,208 ✭✭✭LuasSimon


    With the exception of the possible Luas line in Cork the government are only interested in Dublin , providing rail lines in Adare will only encourage people to live in rural Ireland which is not wanted by the powers that be.


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    #140
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    kilburn wrote: »
    Jesus wept light rail or heavy rail I don't know he wants to use the current infrastructure for example the Ennis train would stop at the new stations built what is the problem with adding stations on that line and giving people an option.

    So negative it's unbelievable sometimes.

    Agreed, it's genuinely hard to tell if everyone is dumping on the idea of commuter rail in limerick or dumping on it because a green suggested it... How many stations currently exist in the suburbs of limerick along the Ennis/Foynes/Nenagh lines?

    Do all the people being negative about this suggestion think that there would be no merit whatsoever to giving the Limerick suburbs a rail alternative by opening a few new stations and finding a few additional rail sets to run along them? Maybe some of the older sets when the new orders come in in a few years?

    I don't think the idea should be immediately thrown in the bin, maybe it was just the Adare suggestion, what if it was just out as far as Raheen Business Park for that line, a few stations out to Moyross on the Ennis line, maybe make those a north to south route crossing the main line from Dublin? Or indeed look at some easy light rail solutions if possible? (I agree getting CIE to give up lines to light rail is a bit of a big ask)


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    #141
    Dats me
    Registered Users Posts: 333 ✭✭Dats me


    Cookiemunster wrote: »
    Shovel ready means that something has been designed, gone through ABP and is ready to build once the money is allocated. This is nothing more than a pie in the sky idea and is most definitely not shovel ready.


    Foynes say it's shovel ready, do a ctrl+f here: https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.sfpc.ie/download/SFPC%2520-%2520Annual%2520Report%25202018%2520web%2520spreads.pdf&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjpxOznwZXrAhXgZxUIHQuYDpAQFjABegQIBxAB&usg=AOvVaw34nbjgkcUECR7gMS7NyJvl


    But they say it's for freight only so you're right for all intents and purposes


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    #142
    Lord Glentoran
    Closed Accounts Posts: 876 ✭✭✭Lord Glentoran


    kilburn wrote: »
    Realism says that putting stations on a current commuter route is pie in the sky ?

    Yep. Apparently :rolleyes:

    Pure balls everywhere else on this side of the Atlantic except for little America Ireland


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    #143
    PhilOssophy
    Registered Users Posts: 2,114 ✭✭✭PhilOssophy


    kilburn wrote: »
    Realism says that putting stations on a current commuter route is pie in the sky ?

    It is pie in the sky if the population of the place is 1,129 people......would there be 5 people on any train?


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    #144
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    PhilOssophy wrote: »
    It is pie in the sky if the population of the place is 1,129 people......would there be 5 people on any train?

    Bit disingenuous, I don't think Mr Leddin was suggesting one Station in Adare and then direct to Colbert from there...


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    #145
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    PhilOssophy wrote:
    It is pie in the sky if the population of the place is 1,129 people......would there be 5 people on any train?

    You really need to go away and read the article as you keep focusing on the Adare piece


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    #146
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I think you only need look at the farce that is the WRC from Ennis to Athenry to see how this would perform


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    #147
    Bass Reeves
    Registered Users Posts: 18,184 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    kilburn wrote: »
    You really need to go away and read the article as you keep focusing on the Adare piece

    The problem is we are too focused on rail as a PT option. Even if that line was totally reopened the area along it has not got population density to support a rail service. On Ennis Limerick where do you put the stations. There is one at Sixmilebridge it's about the nearest point to Shannon and still is unused. I am not even sure how it access the city. It not accessing it through any densities populated part of the city. We put a spur to Shannon, a spur to Cratloe, maybe one to Kilgarven as well to collect a few there as well.

    With COVID more and more 9-5 work will be from home. As it is there are very few people working in the center of Limerick. Train are not and cannot be frequent enough to provide a realistic PT system in Limerick.

    Slava Ukrainii



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    #148
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I think you only need look at the farce that is the WRC from Ennis to Athenry to see how this would perform

    Again I feel it is disingenuous to compare a suburban rail proposal to a rural rail line.

    I am not trying to claim the idea is feasible, I am only asking that comparisons not be drawn to entirely different situations, Western Rail Corridor and Ballybrophy are intended to serve wholly different service patterns to a suburban commuter line, its like saying "theres no point building the DART from Bray to Connolly, just look at how few trains run from Rosslare to Dublin, its pointless"


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    #149
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    Bass Reeves wrote:
    The problem is we are too focused on rail as a PT option. Even if that line was totally reopened the area along it has not got population density to support a rail service. On Ennis Limerick where do you put the stations. There is one at Sixmilebridge it's about the nearest point to Shannon and still is unused. I am not even sure how it access the city. It not accessing it through any densities populated part of the city. We put a spur to Shannon, a spur to Cratloe, maybe one to Kilgarven as well to collect a few there as well.


    Goes straight through Moyross, back of Thomondgate, middle of Corbally, Dublin road at the parkway, Ballysimon road then station.

    5 minute walk to Thomond Park and Gaelic Grounds for matches.

    If it was reasonably priced I would use no problem.

    In a perfect world you would have a spur from Sixmilebridge through Shannon with stops at Smithstown, Free Zone and Airport.


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    #150
    riddlinrussell
    Registered Users Posts: 979 ✭✭✭riddlinrussell


    kilburn wrote: »
    Goes straight through Moyross, back of Thomondgate, middle of Corbally, Dublin road at the parkway, Ballysimon road then station.

    5 minute walk to Thomond Park and Gaelic Grounds for matches.

    If it was reasonably priced I would use no problem.

    In a perfect world you would have a spur from Sixmilebridge through Shannon with stops at Smithstown, Free Zone and Airport.

    Eventually there will be an airport in Ireland that will be able to claim "The only airport in Ireland with a rail link to the city" (It's a damning indictment that the closest we have to this is Farranfore...)


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    #151
    namloc1980
    Registered Users Posts: 18,072 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    LuasSimon wrote: »
    With the exception of the possible Luas line in Cork the government are only interested in Dublin , providing rail lines in Adare will only encourage people to live in rural Ireland which is not wanted by the powers that be.

    The motorway is much more likely to encourage people to live in rural locations than a heavy rail line on a 150+ year old alignment.


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