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Shelbourne Hotel remove historic statues due to association with slavery - *Read OP**

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    #1082
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,108 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    This part of yer man's missive took the biscuit:
    Racist imagery of the oversexualised black body also reflects the voyeuristic image enforced on black people on this island. Narratives around how black people are more passionate or even animalistic in our sexual relationships are pernicious, and visible in Ireland. This view of black sexuality is what I believe is the only way we can comprehend how the placement of the 27th amendment in the Irish constitution could have been passed by popular referendum. This antiblack and racist law, where children who are born in Ireland are no longer given a constitutional right to citizenship unless their parents had Irish citizenship, was passed by 79.17% of Irish voters. The reason for the 27th amendment was to cease Black women’s supposed birth tourism to gain entry to this country. Such a depraved consideration of Black women could only be given power through an understanding of Black women as uncontrollable overtly sexual beings with an animalistic lack of control leading to overbreeding. Utilising this misogynoiristic stereotype, the Irish population could organise to disrupt Black women’s supposed uncontrollable urge to overpopulate.

    I'll have whatever he's smoking.

    1) I hate to break it to him, but one of the main kick offs in this originally was a Chinese woman who travelled to Northern Ireland so that her child could get Irish and EU citizenship.
    2) those pesky facts again showed over half of all non EU nationals were giving birth soon after showing up here.
    3) African birthrates are significantly higher than Irish and the native Irish have the highest birthrates in the EU.
    4) Ireland's jus-soli law was as a result of the Good Friday Agreement and wasn't intended to foster birth tourism and we were the only country in the EU that had such a law, hence the influx during the boom times(nada when we were in recession of course. Funny that).
    5) It also affected Asian and non European White women and their kids. But I suppose they don't count when one's blinkers are set to "Black only".
    6) Today the rejection rate for applicants from the same countries that made up most of the influx in the 90's and early noughties is nearly 100%, but apparently those that came before were somehow different...

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1083
    DelaneyIn
    Registered Users Posts: 524 ✭✭✭DelaneyIn




    https://twitter.com/SenatorMcDowell/status/1288496605511983106

    Senator McDowell has threatened the Marriott with legal action unless they’re put back up.


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    #1084
    Montage of Feck
    Registered Users Posts: 3,544 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    "However, reckoning with antiblackness must also take place in Ireland itself, and in how it treats its Black population. This same Ireland has racially stratified workplaces where non-white people engage in strenuous labour that the white Irish don’t have to do owing to an economic situation that isn’t as precarious."

    Haven't seen too many African blocklayers lol, this isn't 19th century South Carolina ffs.

    🙈🙉🙊



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    #1085
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    Why did the good doctor degrade herself and go to a white educational institution?


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    #1086
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,108 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Why did the good doctor degrade herself and go to a white educational institution?
    Possibly because a Black African educational institution would call her on her bias/dubious methodology/BS and she couldn't pull the racism card with them.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1087
    RandomName2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,566 ✭✭✭RandomName2


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Why did the good doctor degrade herself and go to a white educational institution?

    The world ranking of the institution where she obtained her degree: 2866 (University of Benin)

    World ranking of the institution where she obtained her masters: 401-500 (NUIM)

    World ranking of the institution where she obtained her PhD: 193 (UCD)

    Qualification prerequisites for PhD in Equality Studies: any degree (in this case in microbiology, with a masters in Adult Guidance).

    So that's your answer.




    She is back on the warpath.

    https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1291445088883822595

    https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1291445200582316034

    She has hidden some replies to her tweets.

    Just a quick note in relation to her argument that all art that dates back to a time when any black was enslaved in any white country should be destroyed,
    an era where Blacks weren’t seen as human.

    if I'm correct there wasn't any black enslaved in any white country at the time that these art pieces were created (unless the argument is that all art prior to the decolonization of Africa in 1977 should be destroyed, or perhaps the cut off point would be the repeal of apartheid in South Africa in 1991.. so any art depicting blacks made before 1991, in any country, might be part of the white supremacist past and should be destroyed. An interesting, albeit slightly insane position, if that's the one that's being adopted).

    Imagine going to India and demanding that all art depicting whites be destroyed because of the mistreatment of the Irish in the 19th century (whilst throwing in a random dig at the immigration laws of India). That's how random and insane this is. In case anybody is interested in this as a career path, India does indeed have the same stipulation as Ireland that being born in India does not automatically entitle you to citizenship unless at least one parent is Indian. However I could not find Equality Studies offered by any Indian University, so that may prove a significant stumbling block.


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    #1088
    nullzero
    Registered Users Posts: 16,493 ✭✭✭✭nullzero
    ****


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    The world ranking of the institution where she obtained her degree: 2866 (University of Benin)

    World ranking of the institution where she obtained her masters: 401-500 (NUIM)

    World ranking of the institution where she obtained her PhD: 193 (UCD)

    Qualification prerequisites for PhD in Equality Studies: any degree (in this case in microbiology, with a masters in Adult Guidance).

    So that's your answer.




    She is back on the warpath.

    https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1291445088883822595

    https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1291445200582316034

    She has hidden some replies to her tweets.

    Just a quick note in relation to her argument that all art that dates back to a time when any black was enslaved in any white country should be destroyed, if I'm correct there wasn't any black enslaved in any white country at the time that these art pieces were created (unless the argument is that all art prior to the decolonization of Africa in 1977 should be destroyed, or perhaps the cut off point would be the repeal of apartheid in South Africa in 1991.. so any art depicting blacks made before 1991, in any country, might be part of the white supremacist past and should be destroyed. An interesting, albeit slightly insnae position, if that's the one that's being adopted).

    Imagine going to India and demanding that all art depicting whites be destroyed because of the mistreatment of the Irish in the 19th century (whilst throwing in a random dig at the immigration laws of India). That's how random and insane this is.

    She's pulling out in front in the "Gobsh1te of the year" race.


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    #1089
    nj27
    Registered Users Posts: 467 ✭✭nj27


    They should knock down the Shelbourne hotel and replace it with an enormous statue of Rachel Jeantel imo


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    #1090
    da_miser
    Registered Users Posts: 640 ✭✭✭da_miser


    Walked by it today, the door men in three piece suits with top hats and plastic face screens, sweating like race horses in the hot weather. Let them at it, a joke if you ask me.


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    #1091
    Wibbs
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,108 Mod ✭✭✭✭Wibbs


    RandomName2 wrote: »
    She is back on the warpath.

    https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1291445088883822595

    https://twitter.com/EbunJoseph1/status/1291445200582316034

    She has hidden some replies to her tweets.
    Why am I not surprised. She's either woefully ignorant of history, or isn't and knows she's spouting BS in support of her politic/career, or maybe both depending on the subject. Well she's already suggested reading the hieroglyphics on French made mid 19th century bronzes. :pac:
    Just a quick note in relation to her argument that all art that dates back to a time when any black was enslaved in any white country should be destroyed,
    Well then we'll have to destroy tons of Arabic and African stuff too. Not least from her home country of Nigeria, which was about the biggest supplier of slaves to the Atlantic slave trade for many a year. With the exception of the Edo state. They kept their own slaves of course, but didn't export them, but Black on Black slavery, sure that's OK like. Again only Whitey is the baddy. Blacks are always agentless victims, Whites are always to blame.

    In any event the western seaboard of Nigeria was known as the slave coast when that nasty trade was going on. Slavery was still going on in southern Nigeria until the 1940's(yeah 19, not 18, or 17). Have an oul read of this BBC article about it."My Nigerian great-grandfather sold slaves" Lord knows the BBC couldn't be any more right on of late so it makes for interesting reading. And note how it's framed from a Black perspective and how it differs from how it's framed at a White one. Though "it's not our fault" runs throughout the piece this bit in particular stands out:

    It would be unfair to judge a 19th Century man by 21st Century principles.

    Assessing the people of Africa's past by today's standards would compel us to cast the majority of our heroes as villains, denying us the right to fully celebrate anyone who was not influenced by Western ideology.

    Igbo slave traders like my great-grandfather did not suffer any crisis of social acceptance or legality. They did not need any religious or scientific justifications for their actions. They were simply living the life into which they were raised.

    That was all they knew.

    Now consider this and what this utter bollocks means to these muppets. So we can't judge a 19th Century man by 21st Century principles, so long as he's Black, but we apparently can judge 19th century statues, that don't represent slaves BTW, because they were made by White men who weren't slavers and had gotten into it much later and for a shorter time and banned the tradition long before the Blacks did? Oh really? Note again the oppressor is blamed even at a remove because of "Western Ideology". Never mind it was "Western Ideology" that banned slavery. African Blacks certainly were in no hurry to. Yet again: The [insert oppressed here] are always agentless victims, the [insert oppressor here] are always to blame.

    The kicker about this identity politics nonsense whether it be gender or race is that it infantilises the "oppressed". Again look at what that writer is saying. Whites knew slavery was wrong, but justified it with religion and science, but his ancestors knew no better and just slavishly(no pun) followed tradition. He's essentially saying Whites are more intelligent and adaptable and cunning than sub Saharan Africans who were like easily led "innocent" children. Dumb savages in so many words. So he's in agreement with Rhodes, the KKK and the builders of Apartheid. Right so.

    India does indeed have the same stipulation as Ireland that being born in India does not automatically entitle you to citizenship unless at least one parent is Indian.
    Yup. That's how the majority of nations operate. Ireland's law was very much the outlier and the only example of it in Europe. Hence when we had the confluence of that law and an economic boom we got the beady eye on us as a destination for economic migrants, with a large sideorder of chancers.

    Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.



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    #1092
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    This event could truly be a step too far for the far left, which would be great, as this stuff needs to be nipped in the bud. I was just viewing a few of the Irish Reddit subs, which are usually full of PC drones who are worse than the worst here, and the threads are full of people having none of it. I hope the reaction isn't just momentary, and is something all these types remember going forward, otherwise we'll be back to square one in a few months when another similar event happens.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #1093
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Wibbs wrote: »
    What they're doing is lying through their teeth in order to foster their politic, worldview and often career.



    Yep you do and should do. We all should. The phrase "go away to hell you attention seeking muppet" covers the guts of most of this idiocy.

    They're also violently allergic to something called Facts, which usually results in anaphylactic shock with symptoms including blocking their ears, shouting down, dog whistling to fellow allergics and screaming racism at the top of their well practised lungs.

    Ah but people use facts to prove their argument all the time. Its not fair


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    #1094
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    Too late for the grifter to back down now. She could teach us all a lesson in perseverance.


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    #1095
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,496 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    Too late for the grifter to back down now. She could teach us all a lesson in perseverance.

    She is another Gemma o Doherty. I would put money on her getting much more extreme in the future.


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    #1096
    gailforecast
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 140 ✭✭gailforecast


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    Too late for the grifter to back down now. She could teach us all a lesson in perseverance.

    You know what though, when the article about the actual origin of the statues was released, I would have had a lot of respect if she had of said “my bad!”. But the fact that now she’s finding issues with it regardless, just points to her being an arrogant soul through and through.


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    #1097
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,838 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    gailforecast wrote: »
    You know what though, when the article about the actual origin of the statues was released, I would have had a lot of respect if she had of said “my bad!”. But the fact that now she’s finding issues with it regardless, just points to her being an arrogant soul through and through.


    People like her never admit that they are wrong, and I mean NEVER. You can see the same on here with many like minded posters, they are wrong about nearly everything they believe, and when they are conclusively proven to be wrong, they try their hardest to spin it in an advantageous way. I simply don't like these people, as they are quite dangerous people to have in any society, but part of me honestly feels sad for them. They are deeply broken people.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #1098
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    jackboy wrote: »
    She is another Gemma o Doherty. I would put money on her getting much more extreme in the future.

    She (the good doctor) is already pretty extreme with her racist rhetoric. Unless she goes all out black supremacist and starts physically committing hate crimes like burning white property etc.


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    #1099
    highdef
    Registered Users Posts: 6,186 ✭✭✭highdef


    da_miser wrote: »
    Walked by it today, the door men in three piece suits with top hats and plastic face screens, sweating like race horses in the hot weather. Let them at it, a joke if you ask me.

    What exactly is the joke, I ask you? The door men are dressed in a formal manner and they are wearing PPP to protect the spread of Covid 19. Doesn't sound like a joke to me, sounds quite serious, in fact.


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    #1100
    ilkhanid
    Registered Users Posts: 902 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    McDowell is playing it well with his "Free the Shelbourne Four " meme.

    " We can’t forget the image of 4 Black bodies in subjugated positions in front of a hotel affordable to d White upper class from an era where Blacks weren’t seen as human".

    Jaysus..there's so much to unpack here..."in front of a hotel affordable to d White Upper class" For a start the hotel could be considered unaffordable to poorer whites and-Secondly-is she saying it would be all right if it was flophouse establishment?
    Thirdly: they don't look subjugated. These are what subjugated slaves look like...https://www.seevenice.it/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/IMG_2177small.jpg
    Fourthly:They're black because they are cast in bronze, bronze copies in fact. If they were expensive marble originals, they would look snow white.


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    #1101
    Tony EH
    Registered Users Posts: 19,014 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    gailforecast wrote: »
    You know what though, when the article about the actual origin of the statues was released, I would have had a lot of respect if she had of said “my bad!”. But the fact that now she’s finding issues with it regardless, just points to her being an arrogant soul through and through.

    That's the problem with today though isn't it. She knows if she backs down, she'll be crucified too, so she might as well carry on with her own narrative and perhaps try to gradually change it slightly so it's not so hairbrained.

    She's already tried to mix in the "black bodies" element to muddy the waters, because the "slave" aspect has been shown to be wrong.

    In today's modern, so called, "discourse", there's nothing more important that the "win". Actual discussion or debate rarely comes into it. It's only about "winning"...

    ...even when there's nothing to actually win.

    What she should have done was just bow out gracefully and put it behind her. Then in the future not be so quick to believe American gobshites and multi billion dollar hotel chains who want to jump on a bandwagon for PR purposes.

    But, we're talking about someone who made a fuss over being mistakenly served Ribena in a Galway hotel here. She's more about a quick grift here and there to increase her own profile, rather than advocating just causes.


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    #1102
    Edgware
    Registered Users Posts: 5,875 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Is she Saoirse McHugh or some other tree hugger in disguise?


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    #1103
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    Edgware wrote: »
    Is she Saoirse McHugh or some other tree hugger in disguise?

    At least Saoirse McHugh put her self forward for election.

    No doubt this lady would blame racism if she didn’t get elected.


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    #1104
    ShamNNspace
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    At least Saoirse McHugh put her self forward for election.

    No doubt this lady would blame racism if she didn’t get elected.

    Theres a seat in the senate waiting for her down the line mark my words perhaps a Taoiseachs nominee (yes they would be that stupid)


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    #1105
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    ShamNNspace wrote: »
    Theres a seat in the senate waiting for her down the line mark my words perhaps a Taoiseachs nominee (yes they would be that stupid)

    I’ll be moving to Abuja the day that happens.


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    #1106
    ShamNNspace
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    I’ll be moving to Abuja the day that happens.

    Heres a nice one to start your search


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    #1107
    Rodney Bathgate
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,445 ✭✭✭Rodney Bathgate


    ShamNNspace wrote: »
    Heres a nice one to start your search

    I might even claim asylum. Hopefully they put me up in a fancy house like that.


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    #1108
    mikemac2
    Registered Users Posts: 2,930 ✭✭✭mikemac2


    Dr Joseph should pay a visit to Baltimore and learn about the Barbary pirates. And some of them from Algeria


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    #1109
    imme
    Registered Users Posts: 3,200 ✭✭✭imme


    Rodney Bathgate wrote: »
    I might even claim asylum. Hopefully they put me up in a fancy house like that.

    I think you would get a

    "because you are white"

    response from the authorities to your application.


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    #1110
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,134 ✭✭✭screamer


    ShamNNspace wrote: »
    Theres a seat in the senate waiting for her down the line mark my words perhaps a Taoiseachs nominee (yes they would be that stupid)

    But who would she be representative of? If all African immigrants in Ireland have the same vitriol for white Irish people, then we’ll all need to seek asylum somewhere else soon. I think and hope she is not representative of anyone except herself.


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    #1111
    ShamNNspace
    Registered Users Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭ShamNNspace


    screamer wrote: »
    But who would she be representative of? If all African immigrants in Ireland have the same vitriol for white Irish people, then we’ll all need to seek asylum somewhere else soon. I think and hope she is not representative of anyone except herself.

    Mark my words fwik most Africans I've met wouldn't see her as representative at all and would regard her as a bit of a s**t stirrer but for some reason her views are held in high regard by some organisations of the we-know-whats-best-for-you variety here causing a lot of sad head shaking in quite a lot of the immigrant population here who just want to get on with their lives as best they can like the rest of us. Empty vessels make most noise and all that and its not allways the cream that rises to the top there are many exceptions


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