Covid 19 Part XX-26,644 in ROI (1,772 deaths) 6,064 in NI (556 deaths) (08/08)Read OP

niallo27 · 06-08-2020 01:10PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1287042894277349377?s=20

Thats all very nice for a country the other side of the world but what has it got to do with my questions.

Oranage2 · 06-08-2020 01:11PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Where would you force them to quarantine, for how long, who would pay for it. Is the whole airport segregated, are all passengers shipped off for 14 days. How will it work.

Make it well clear that anyone arriving must quarantine for 2 weeks in a hotel that was chosen by the government and the visitor must pay this. Maybe 30-50e.

Would make only essential vistors come and would stop this cheap holidays away. Also a good boast for some hotels

JJayoo · 06-08-2020 01:13PM

New Zealand is 4000km from Australia, it's about as isolated as you can get and people want to use it as an example of how to react to the virus?

Stick New Zealand onto main land Europe and see how they get on

niallo27 · 06-08-2020 01:15PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Make it well clear that anyone arriving must quarantine for 2 weeks in a hotel that was chosen by the government and the visitor must pay this. Maybe 30-50e.

Would make only essential vistors come and would stop this cheap holidays away. Also a good boast for some hotels

So is the passenger free to travel through the airport, passport control, collect their bags, stop at the shop maybe, get a taxi to the hotel. Are they allowed leave their room, can they go to the hotel restaurant for dinner. Are cleaning staff allowed in the room. Do they clean their own room. I dont think its as easy as you think.

Arghus · 06-08-2020 01:16PM

Boggles wrote: »

The vast majority of the planet stopped listening to the WHO back in April.

There was a 180+ countries recommending or mandating for masks while the WHO was still pretending they didn't work and in all likelyhood would kill you, long after the perceived shortage of PPE was dealt with. Basically they are working off science that is months old, countries like Germany are ploughing ahead without them. Their dithering is directly translating into deaths.

But the biggest tell tale sign for me was when the artificially tanned buffoon jettisoned them and the "outrage" was minimal.

Unfortunately for the majority of people that work for the WHO much like FIFA, the actual brilliant professionals, they will be the ones who suffer and not the ones at the top.

Also it was current head of the WHO made Mugabe a goodwill ambassador, on that point alone you do have to question the judgement of the man.

I thought the outrage was pretty widespread when Trump started lashing out against them. I certainly read enough pieces and watched enough reports absolutely laying into him for it and I honestly didn't hear one voice saying he had a point, which is not to say, he may not have had a point. But I guess we can argue all day about the severity of outrage. It's hard to judge these days with coverage of Trump: it all just melts into one big ball of outrage.

Boggles · 06-08-2020 01:16PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

They also recommended not to stop air travel to and from the country of origin when it was obvious it should have been done

I wouldn't go down the road of bashing them over every decision they did or didn't do.

Our own Minister said it would be mean to stop traffic from the epicenter of Europe back in March.

But the reality is they are woefully behind the scientific evidence and continue to be.

I get that in certain situations they adopt a "here comes the airplane approach" and they have to, but this is a global pandemic not a West African village where it is still the social norm to walk around all day with your cock hanging out.

Boggles · 06-08-2020 01:18PM

Arghus wrote: »

I thought the outrage was pretty widespread when Trump started lashing out against them. I certainly read enough pieces and watched enough reports absolutely laying into him for it and I honestly didn't hear one voice saying he had a point, which is not to say, he may not have had a point. But I guess we can argue all day about the severity of outrage. It's hard to judge these days with coverage of Trump: it all just melts into one big ball of outrage.

That's when he suspended the money and even that the outrage was pure lip service, the countries just made up the difference.

He has since withdrawn from them.

Basically crickets.

s1ippy · 06-08-2020 01:19PM

I know this is a crazy place to ask for advice but I can't really bring this to my family because it's personal, so any insight appreciated.

Basically I'm in the depths of depression (like a lot of other people). I haven't left the house in five months except to care for my high-risk relatives. I didn't get to do anything I enjoy during my annual leave because it was crap weather for the whole time so I didn't get out to the garden much. My life is just work to earn money, work for my family, sleep. At the weekends it's more family demands and fall into bed exhausted and mostly just want to die.

So this weekend a friend of mine suggested I go camping with a small group and I jumped at the invitation. It's perfect, outdoors with my own personal accommodation and loads of space to distance out. I can retreat to my space or even leave entirely if I decide that it's not safe and I need to.

I mentioned it to my relative, thinking they'd be happy that I have something fun to look forward to, jaysis I was majorly wrong. They seem determined to prevent me from going now and they're badgering me relentlessly since I told them.

I'm a fairly hurt because they're happy enough for me to go and wait in a pharmacy to get their medication but they seem fairly incensed by the idea of me taking some time to relax myself in what I would regard as an extremely low-risk situation. I'm probably not going to go now, not because of any risk but just because I won't enjoy it knowing that I'll get berated for my actions next week.

It's a quite mad situation that I never envisaged myself in and it's kind of put how pathetic my life is in perspective.

the corpo · 06-08-2020 01:22PM

s1ippy wrote: »

It's a quite mad situation that I never envisaged myself in and it's kind of put how pathetic my life is in perspective.

If you have your own tent and will be mixing with others only outdoors, and can maintain distance, then there's absolutely no reason not to go, you're well within the guidelines. Go for it, and have a great, great time!

Having a decent break will do wonders for your resolve, any beratement your relatives dole out will just wash over you

Wolf359f · 06-08-2020 01:22PM

Oranage2 wrote: »

Make it well clear that anyone arriving must quarantine for 2 weeks in a hotel that was chosen by the government and the visitor must pay this. Maybe 30-50e.

Would make only essential vistors come and would stop this cheap holidays away. Also a good boast for some hotels

Who would police it? We've seen in Australia what happened when it's not policed correctly. When hotels run out of room, would we have to limit flights? Australia had that issue also.
Are cabin crew and polite exempt?
You know most of our import come on roll on roll off ferries, will driver have to quarantine also? Not like Australia or new Zealand have drivers accompanying freight as it's such a long sail.
And we'll just ignore the northern border eh?

caveat emptor · 06-08-2020 01:23PM

niallo27 wrote: »

Thats all very nice for a country the other side of the world but what has it got to do with my questions.

Pretty damning report just came out on how lack of any border controls led to thousands more preventable cases and deaths in UK.

Do a find and replace and every instance of the word "UK" and replace with "Ireland"

Have a read, think you'll find it is interesting.
They are already taking actions like mandating self quarantining for people coming back from Spain.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/home-affairs-committee/news-parliament-2017/home-office-covid-19-management-border-report-published-19-21/

froog · 06-08-2020 01:25PM

s1ippy wrote: »

I know this is a crazy place to ask for advice but I can't really bring this to my family because it's personal, so any insight appreciated.

Basically I'm in the depths of depression (like a lot of other people). I haven't left the house in five months except to care for my high-risk relatives. I didn't get to do anything I enjoy during my annual leave because it was crap weather for the whole time so I didn't get out to the garden much. My life is just work to earn money, work for my family, sleep. At the weekends it's more family demands and fall into bed exhausted and mostly just want to die.

So this weekend a friend of mine suggested I go camping with a small group and I jumped at the invitation. It's perfect, outdoors with my own personal accommodation and loads of space to distance out. I can retreat to my space or even leave entirely if I decide that it's not safe and I need to.

I mentioned it to my relative, thinking they'd be happy that I have something fun to look forward to, jaysis I was majorly wrong. They seem determined to prevent me from going now and they're badgering me relentlessly since I told them.

I'm a fairly hurt because they're happy enough for me to go and wait in a pharmacy to get their medication but they seem fairly incensed by the idea of me taking some time to relax myself in what I would regard as an extremely low-risk situation. I'm probably not going to go now, not because of any risk but just because I won't enjoy it knowing that I'll get berated for my actions next week.

It's a quite mad situation that I never envisaged myself in and it's kind of put how pathetic my life is in perspective.

You need to look after yourself as well dude, go for it, it can be done safely quite easily.

Arghus · 06-08-2020 01:26PM

s1ippy wrote: »

I know this is a crazy place to ask for advice but I can't really bring this to my family because it's personal, so any insight appreciated.

Basically I'm in the depths of depression (like a lot of other people). I haven't left the house in five months except to care for my high-risk relatives. I didn't get to do anything I enjoy during my annual leave because it was crap weather for the whole time so I didn't get out to the garden much. My life is just work to earn money, work for my family, sleep. At the weekends it's more family demands and fall into bed exhausted and mostly just want to die.

So this weekend a friend of mine suggested I go camping with a small group and I jumped at the invitation. It's perfect, outdoors with my own personal accommodation and loads of space to distance out. I can retreat to my space or even leave entirely if I decide that it's not safe and I need to.

I mentioned it to my relative, thinking they'd be happy that I have something fun to look forward to, jaysis I was majorly wrong. They seem determined to prevent me from going now and they're badgering me relentlessly since I told them.

I'm a fairly hurt because they're happy enough for me to go and wait in a pharmacy to get their medication but they seem fairly incensed by the idea of me taking some time to relax myself in what I would regard as an extremely low-risk situation. I'm probably not going to go now, not because of any risk but just because I won't enjoy it knowing that I'll get berated for my actions next week.

It's a quite mad situation that I never envisaged myself in and it's kind of put how pathetic my life is in perspective.

Just going by those details I don't think you should feel all that guilty. As long as the people you care for are looked after, I don't think going on the experience you describe is a major risk. And maybe you need it for your own mental health.

06-08-2020 01:27PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

As regards the WHO they are between a rock and a hard place.

They don't want to offend governments by causing undue panic and telling people it's airborne. (even though it is)

I am loath to respond again and will take the attendant risk of a fruitless back and forth, but I will post this for the forth time in the past 24 hours to not leave misinformation out there again

https://www.who.int/news-room/q-a-detail/q-a-how-is-covid-19-transmitted#:~:text=Current%20evidence%20suggests%20that%20COVID,respiratory%20secretions%20or%20secretion%20droplets.

What do we know about aerosol transmission?
Some medical procedures can produce very small droplets (called aerosolized droplet nuclei or aerosols) that are able to stay suspended in the air for longer periods of time. When such medical procedures are conducted on people infected with COVID-19 in health facilities, these aerosols can contain the COVID-19 virus. These aerosols may potentially be inhaled by others if they are not wearing appropriate personal protective equipment. Therefore, it is essential that all health workers performing these medical procedures take specific airborne protection measures, including using appropriate personal protective equipment. Visitors should not be permitted in areas where such medical procedures are being performed.

There have been reported outbreaks of COVID-19 in some closed settings, such as restaurants, nightclubs, places of worship or places of work where people may be shouting, talking, or singing. In these outbreaks, aerosol transmission, particularly in these indoor locations where there are crowded and inadequately ventilated spaces where infected persons spend long periods of time with others, cannot be ruled out. More studies are urgently needed to investigate such instances and assess their significance for transmission of COVID-19.

Which does not contradict any studies or info posted here re: aerosol transmission

yermandan · 06-08-2020 01:27PM

s1ippy wrote: »

I know this is a crazy place to ask for advice but I can't really bring this to my family because it's personal, so any insight appreciated.

Basically I'm in the depths of depression (like a lot of other people). I haven't left the house in five months except to care for my high-risk relatives. I didn't get to do anything I enjoy during my annual leave because it was crap weather for the whole time so I didn't get out to the garden much. My life is just work to earn money, work for my family, sleep. At the weekends it's more family demands and fall into bed exhausted and mostly just want to die.

So this weekend a friend of mine suggested I go camping with a small group and I jumped at the invitation. It's perfect, outdoors with my own personal accommodation and loads of space to distance out. I can retreat to my space or even leave entirely if I decide that it's not safe and I need to.

I mentioned it to my relative, thinking they'd be happy that I have something fun to look forward to, jaysis I was majorly wrong. They seem determined to prevent me from going now and they're badgering me relentlessly since I told them.

I'm a fairly hurt because they're happy enough for me to go and wait in a pharmacy to get their medication but they seem fairly incensed by the idea of me taking some time to relax myself in what I would regard as an extremely low-risk situation. I'm probably not going to go now, not because of any risk but just because I won't enjoy it knowing that I'll get berated for my actions next week.

It's a quite mad situation that I never envisaged myself in and it's kind of put how pathetic my life is in perspective.

I'm so sorry to hear you are going through this at the moment.

But read that paragraph again yourself where you describe in quite succinct detail how this camping trip will positively impact your mental health, something that you absolutely need at the moment, and regularly.

I understand your reluctance due to your fears of being berated by this family member but you absolutely have to put your mental wellbeing first here and fcuk the rest.

The berating seems like it will be there regardless of whether you go or not so absolutely go, and somewhere where you can switch the phone off and recharge yourself.

Best of luck

Brianmwalker · 06-08-2020 01:31PM

s1ippy wrote: »

I know this is a crazy place to ask for advice but I can't really bring this to my family because it's personal, so any insight appreciated.

Basically I'm in the depths of depression (like a lot of other people). I haven't left the house in five months except to care for my high-risk relatives. I didn't get to do anything I enjoy during my annual leave because it was crap weather for the whole time so I didn't get out to the garden much. My life is just work to earn money, work for my family, sleep. At the weekends it's more family demands and fall into bed exhausted and mostly just want to die.

So this weekend a friend of mine suggested I go camping with a small group and I jumped at the invitation. It's perfect, outdoors with my own personal accommodation and loads of space to distance out. I can retreat to my space or even leave entirely if I decide that it's not safe and I need to.

I mentioned it to my relative, thinking they'd be happy that I have something fun to look forward to, jaysis I was majorly wrong. They seem determined to prevent me from going now and they're badgering me relentlessly since I told them.

I'm a fairly hurt because they're happy enough for me to go and wait in a pharmacy to get their medication but they seem fairly incensed by the idea of me taking some time to relax myself in what I would regard as an extremely low-risk situation. I'm probably not going to go now, not because of any risk but just because I won't enjoy it knowing that I'll get berated for my actions next week.

It's a quite mad situation that I never envisaged myself in and it's kind of put how pathetic my life is in perspective.

Go for the break s1ippy, you're mental health is as important as others physical health.

Danzy · 06-08-2020 01:32PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1287042894277349377?s=20

New Zealand is able to do that given its size and location

If America had locked down to the same degree we did, the world economy would take 20 years to recover from the depression it engendered.

Libertarians are as divorced from reality and consequences as any radical Socialist.

eagle eye · 06-08-2020 01:34PM

Oranage2 wrote:

Make it well clear that anyone arriving must quarantine for 2 weeks in a hotel that was chosen by the government and the visitor must pay this. Maybe 30-50e.
Would make only essential vistors come and would stop this cheap holidays away. Also a good boast for some hotels

Well I'm fully in favour of quarantine but I'd do it differently. I think you quarantine and test people, if they pass the test them let them off on their holiday but if you fail you stay quarantined until you go home.

caveat emptor · 06-08-2020 01:36PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I am loath to respond again and will take the attendant risk of a fruitless back and forth, but I will post this for the forth time in the past 24 hours to not leave misinformation out there again
.........
Which does not contradict any studies or info posted here re: aerosol transmission

Do you think muddying waters is fun?
Confounding the utility of serological testing with immunity passports?
Do you think that confounding aerosol generating procedures and the fact that someone got it in a restaurant is a bit confusing?

I mean how did 8000 healthcare workers get it 32% of all of our cases?
What happened there, if as you say the WHO warned it was airborne?
You weren't even able to talk about airborne on this thread until a month ago, it was in the rules.
Most didn't do any aerosol generating procedures

I think you are a WUM and I think you deliberately try to confuse people in the hope of derailing any constructive discussion.

For the sake of everyone here.
I'll ignore you if you ignore me.

ignored.

Boggles · 06-08-2020 01:36PM

s1ippy wrote: »

I know this is a crazy place to ask for advice but I can't really bring this to my family because it's personal, so any insight appreciated.

Basically I'm in the depths of depression (like a lot of other people). I haven't left the house in five months except to care for my high-risk relatives. I didn't get to do anything I enjoy during my annual leave because it was crap weather for the whole time so I didn't get out to the garden much. My life is just work to earn money, work for my family, sleep. At the weekends it's more family demands and fall into bed exhausted and mostly just want to die.

So this weekend a friend of mine suggested I go camping with a small group and I jumped at the invitation. It's perfect, outdoors with my own personal accommodation and loads of space to distance out. I can retreat to my space or even leave entirely if I decide that it's not safe and I need to.

I mentioned it to my relative, thinking they'd be happy that I have something fun to look forward to, jaysis I was majorly wrong. They seem determined to prevent me from going now and they're badgering me relentlessly since I told them.

I'm a fairly hurt because they're happy enough for me to go and wait in a pharmacy to get their medication but they seem fairly incensed by the idea of me taking some time to relax myself in what I would regard as an extremely low-risk situation. I'm probably not going to go now, not because of any risk but just because I won't enjoy it knowing that I'll get berated for my actions next week.

It's a quite mad situation that I never envisaged myself in and it's kind of put how pathetic my life is in perspective.

Tell them go fúck themselves.

Proudly announce you are going shíttíng in a bucket for the weekend and you will see them all on Monday.

KrustyUCC · 06-08-2020 01:37PM

US2 wrote: »

I see these kind of posts alot, what has it got to do with GAA ? I don't see any " person who happens to play soccer/rugby/basketball tests positive"

It's not a GAA only thing

Cork County Cricket Club and Cork Harlequins were shut down with suspected cases

Waterford United the same

This bloody thing will affect all sports

What Username Guidelines · 06-08-2020 01:38PM

s1ippy wrote: »

I know this is a crazy place to ask for advice but I can't really bring this to my family because it's personal, so any insight appreciated.

Basically I'm in the depths of depression (like a lot of other people). I haven't left the house in five months except to care for my high-risk relatives. I didn't get to do anything I enjoy during my annual leave because it was crap weather for the whole time so I didn't get out to the garden much. My life is just work to earn money, work for my family, sleep. At the weekends it's more family demands and fall into bed exhausted and mostly just want to die.

So this weekend a friend of mine suggested I go camping with a small group and I jumped at the invitation. It's perfect, outdoors with my own personal accommodation and loads of space to distance out. I can retreat to my space or even leave entirely if I decide that it's not safe and I need to.

I mentioned it to my relative, thinking they'd be happy that I have something fun to look forward to, jaysis I was majorly wrong. They seem determined to prevent me from going now and they're badgering me relentlessly since I told them.

I'm a fairly hurt because they're happy enough for me to go and wait in a pharmacy to get their medication but they seem fairly incensed by the idea of me taking some time to relax myself in what I would regard as an extremely low-risk situation. I'm probably not going to go now, not because of any risk but just because I won't enjoy it knowing that I'll get berated for my actions next week.

It's a quite mad situation that I never envisaged myself in and it's kind of put how pathetic my life is in perspective.

I’ve been finding it very hard too, every day is the same and taking care of family can be thankless. I realised when all this started that I spend a lot of my time at home anyway but even still I’m finding the lack of freedom of choice very hard. My exercise routine is out the window, comfort eating is back in and I’ve ruined about 6 months of fitness in the last 5 months.

Since some restrictions have lifted (travel distance) I got back hiking again with friends once a week and it’s done me the world of good. Did a small break away too, which really helped. But the hiking is outdoors, a different few faces, fresh air, exercise. It’s really helping.

Go camping. You’ll be no use to your family if you keep pushing yourself. It’s like sticking the mask on yourself first before helping those around you.

caveat emptor · 06-08-2020 01:39PM

the corpo wrote: »

If you have your own tent and will be mixing with others only outdoors, and can maintain distance, then there's absolutely no reason not to go, you're well within the guidelines. Go for it, and have a great, great time!

Having a decent break will do wonders for your resolve, any beratement your relatives dole out will just wash over you

Yeah, great idea.
You need to travel light mentally. If that person is bringing you down.
Reduce your interaction with them for your own sanity.

Wolf359f · 06-08-2020 01:41PM

eagle eye wrote: »

Well I'm fully in favour of quarantine but I'd do it differently. I think you quarantine and test people, if they pass the test them let them off on their holiday but if you fail you stay quarantined until you go home.

You are aware that you can test someone and they would be negative, then send them on their way and the next day they would be shedding the virus.
When they receive a negative test, they would more than likely let their guard down and if asymptomatic.... There's your mass community spread. A bit like Australia.

seamus · 06-08-2020 01:41PM

JJayoo wrote: »

New Zealand is 4000km from Australia, it's about as isolated as you can get and people want to use it as an example of how to react to the virus?

As much as I tend to agree with people who think that Ireland should start trying to take the "zero-Covid" approach that's now being touted, we have to consider that NZ is still registering a couple of infections every week. A country in literally the middle of the ocean with absolute sovereignty and control over its borders, and the virus still gets in.

s1ippy wrote: »

I mentioned it to my relative, thinking they'd be happy that I have something fun to look forward to, jaysis I was majorly wrong. They seem determined to prevent me from going now and they're badgering me relentlessly since I told them.

I'm a fairly hurt because they're happy enough for me to go and wait in a pharmacy to get their medication but they seem fairly incensed by the idea of me taking some time to relax myself in what I would regard as an extremely low-risk situation. I'm probably not going to go now, not because of any risk but just because I won't enjoy it knowing that I'll get berated for my actions next week.

I know this is really easy to say from my position, but you need to shut this person out. Even temporarily. Tell them in no uncertain terms that they need to STFU about it, and you will do whatever you want. If they're not happy with it, then they can go isolate themselves from you.

What they're doing to you is textbook controlling, bordering on abusive.

If they won't leave you alone after you've been clear, then you go silent. Don't answer their calls or texts (block them if necessary), and if you can't avoid seeing them face to face, then just walk away as soon as they start talking about it.

What you do with your life is not their business, they have no say over what you do. If they're not happy, that's their problem, not yours.

Keep this up on your return if necessary. If this person is well enough to go to the pharmacy, they're well enough to do without your help for a week. Take back control over your life and show this individual that they are the ones who should be meek and thankful for your assistance, not abusive and demanding. You have put your life on hold to help them and gotten nothing but abuse in return. It's time for this individual to learn that when you abuse a privilege, you lose it.

Like I say, this is really easy for me to say from outside, but I really do hope you take this break. Remember that you don't owe anyone else anything. Nobody has a right to tell you how to live. You ALWAYS have the right to tell anyone to go fvck themselves.

schmoo2k · 06-08-2020 01:43PM

caveat emptor wrote: »

Pretty damning report just came out on how lack of any border controls led to thousands more preventable cases and deaths in UK.

Do a find and replace and every instance of the word "UK" and replace with "Ireland"

Have a read, think you'll find it is interesting.
They are already taking actions like mandating self quarantining for people coming back from Spain.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/home-affairs-committee/news-parliament-2017/home-office-covid-19-management-border-report-published-19-21/

Just like us so?

Boggles · 06-08-2020 01:45PM

JJayoo wrote: »

New Zealand is 4000km from Australia, it's about as isolated as you can get and people want to use it as an example of how to react to the virus?

Stick New Zealand onto main land Europe and see how they get on

Just on this. New Zealand is an Island as is Ireland, it doesn't really matter if you are 4000 miles away from the next land mass or 40.

How people get to the island is exactly the same. So in reality we have the same physical barrier.

The difference between us and NZ is politics and the bit at the top.

That's what makes it virtual impossible, but not completely impossible.

Wolf359f · 06-08-2020 01:48PM

Boggles wrote: »

Just on this. New Zealand is an Island as is Ireland, it doesn't really matter if you are 4000 miles away from the next land mass or 40.

How people get to the island is exactly the same. So in reality we have the same physical barrier.

The difference between us and NZ is politics and the bit at the top.

That's what makes it virtual impossible, but not impossible.

There's a difference in that we have an open border with another country. You can literally drive across the open border, completely different than New Zealand.

smurfjed · 06-08-2020 01:51PM

s1ippy wrote: »

It's a quite mad situation that I never envisaged myself in and it's kind of put how pathetic my life is in perspective.

Your present and future mental health should be the most important things right now, buy two weeks supply of stuff for your relatives and go camping. Have a great time.

Boggles · 06-08-2020 01:52PM

Wolf359f wrote: »

There's a difference in that we have an open border with another country. You can literally drive across the open border, completely different than New Zealand.

Yes, I know. That's why I said the "bit at the top".

But the main reason that was given for NZ being able to do what they is because they are an Island.

So is the island of Ireland.

Now I am not advocating for a Covid free Island NZ type model, because the politics of it make it virtually impossible.

I'm not also ruling it out if we find ourselves come 2022 with rinse and repeat "lockdowns" and no effective vaccine, it would be absolutely nonsensical to not at least entertain the idea, because it is a natural advantage not afforded to the majority of the rest of Europe.

Covid 19 Part XX-26,644 in ROI (1,772 deaths) 6,064 in NI (556 deaths) (08/08)Read OP

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