How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

Smacruairi · 05-08-2020 03:23PM

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Blended Learning/alternative provision:
It is recognised that for students vulnerable to the disease, attendance at school may not be possible. The Department also recognises that given the potential for an upturn in the disease (and/or a second wave) that ‘stay-at-home’ may have to be re-introduced (at a school, region or national level). Therefore a blended learning approach (online / in school) will necessarily be a feature of the approach to planning to reopen schools and will have to provide the necessary agility to respond very quickly to changed circumstances at a local, regional or
national level.

This agility and responsiveness will also have to enable a tailored and graduated approach at, individual school level; a town level, a county level, a regional level and a national level.To a greater or lesser extent, schools may be required to provide both in-school and remote
learning support during the coming school year. This approach to learning which combines face-to-face and remote learning experiences is known as blended learning. Digital technologies play a significant role in supporting teachers and students in a blended learning
environment.

Resources and webinar training have been provided to schools by the Professional Development Service for Teachers (PDST) and Junior Cycle for Teachers (JCT) in the use of digital technology to support learning.

In that context the Department together with the NCCA is working towards:
1. Identifying an appropriate blended learning models for individual school contexts
2. Adapting the delivery of the overall curriculum in the context of a blended learning
environment
3. Providing specific advice on particular curriculum subjects and programmes
4. Maximising the use of digital technologies to support a blended learning approach
5. Supporting and enhancing the role of parents/guardians and other partnerships

Ongoing actions

The Department will continue to engage with the NCCA and the Professional Development Service for Teachers (PDST) to ensure the development of further learning resources to support schools and teachers in developing CPD to support the particular challenges of
teaching that are best suited to online schooling and blended learning.

First bit. Yeah you might need remote learning. Grand, I agree with that.

Second bit - we have no idea how to do this on a national level, and have put no thought into how it might look. We don't want to set the level as ppl will always say it's not enough. **** it, let the schools set the bar and we will see.

Third bit, oh for the curriculum which we set, eh we will get back to you... Its now 3 weeks till school begins...

With regards to "Supporting and enhancing the role of parents/guardians and other partnerships". Do parents feel supported at all yet? Have they even been consulted ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚ðŸ˜‚

wirelessdude01 · 05-08-2020 03:24PM

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Blended Learning/alternative provision:
It is recognised that for students vulnerable to the disease, attendance at school may not be possible. The Department also recognises that given the potential for an upturn in the disease (and/or a second wave) that ‘stay-at-home’ may have to be re-introduced (at a school, region or national level). Therefore a blended learning approach (online / in school) will necessarily be a feature of the approach to planning to reopen schools and will have to provide the necessary agility to respond very quickly to changed circumstances at a local, regional or
national level.

This agility and responsiveness will also have to enable a tailored and graduated approach at, individual school level; a town level, a county level, a regional level and a national level.To a greater or lesser extent, schools may be required to provide both in-school and remote
learning support during the coming school year. This approach to learning which combines face-to-face and remote learning experiences is known as blended learning. Digital technologies play a significant role in supporting teachers and students in a blended learning
environment.

Resources and webinar training have been provided to schools by the Professional Development Service for Teachers (PDST) and Junior Cycle for Teachers (JCT) in the use of digital technology to support learning.

In that context the Department together with the NCCA is working towards:
1. Identifying an appropriate blended learning models for individual school contexts
2. Adapting the delivery of the overall curriculum in the context of a blended learning
environment
3. Providing specific advice on particular curriculum subjects and programmes
4. Maximising the use of digital technologies to support a blended learning approach
5. Supporting and enhancing the role of parents/guardians and other partnerships

Ongoing actions

The Department will continue to engage with the NCCA and the Professional Development Service for Teachers (PDST) to ensure the development of further learning resources to support schools and teachers in developing CPD to support the particular challenges of
teaching that are best suited to online schooling and blended learning.

You do know that in a primary context that we can't do two things at once. We can't be in school and also providing support to those at home. The department's grand plan is to pull resources from the most vulnerable children in our children's and reallocate the SET team where necessary to provide support to those at home. Despicable attitude.

With regards to the 'ongoing' section. The department issued us guidelines approximately 10 weeks after the school buildings were shutdown. Is that the same sort of ongoing support we should expect or indeed should we just muddle through?

wirelessdude01 · 05-08-2020 03:25PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

How much was allocated for marquees out the back?

I'd prefer the marquees out front to that the parents can fully see what the money was spent on ðŸ˜‚

History Queen · 05-08-2020 03:27PM

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Blended Learning/alternative provision:
It is recognised that for students vulnerable to the disease, attendance at school may not be possible. The Department also recognises that given the potential for an upturn in the disease (and/or a second wave) that ‘stay-at-home’ may have to be re-introduced (at a school, region or national level). Therefore a blended learning approach (online / in school) will necessarily be a feature of the approach to planning to reopen schools and will have to provide the necessary agility to respond very quickly to changed circumstances at a local, regional or
national level.

This agility and responsiveness will also have to enable a tailored and graduated approach at, individual school level; a town level, a county level, a regional level and a national level.To a greater or lesser extent, schools may be required to provide both in-school and remote
learning support during the coming school year. This approach to learning which combines face-to-face and remote learning experiences is known as blended learning. Digital technologies play a significant role in supporting teachers and students in a blended learning
environment.

Resources and webinar training have been provided to schools by the Professional Development Service for Teachers (PDST) and Junior Cycle for Teachers (JCT) in the use of digital technology to support learning.

In that context the Department together with the NCCA is working towards:
1. Identifying an appropriate blended learning models for individual school contexts
2. Adapting the delivery of the overall curriculum in the context of a blended learning
environment
3. Providing specific advice on particular curriculum subjects and programmes
4. Maximising the use of digital technologies to support a blended learning approach
5. Supporting and enhancing the role of parents/guardians and other partnerships

Ongoing actions

The Department will continue to engage with the NCCA and the Professional Development Service for Teachers (PDST) to ensure the development of further learning resources to support schools and teachers in developing CPD to support the particular challenges of
teaching that are best suited to online schooling and blended learning.

We have read the guidelines and understand the double speak and inadequacy of them. You constantly copying and pasting from them is just clogging up the thread.

For example, taking what you quoted above, on paper yes, it looks like the Dept have allowed for blended learning,
in practice however, it is the same approach as before the holidays, each school is on its own. This is not adequate and leads to more inequality and uncertainty for students and parents as well as teachers.

Alrigghtythen · 05-08-2020 03:27PM

downthemiddle wrote: »

How much was allocated for marquees out the back?

No outside the box thinking but then maybe going from school to college to school without much real world experiences has consequences for innovation and problem solving as we are seeing now.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 05-08-2020 03:30PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

It does work both ways though, there are a few on here who I'd balk at the idea of them anywhere near my children with the constant one line retorts and superiority complex and who are similarly frequent posters.

Assuming personality traits on here wouldn't be very scientific I'd say. Good few on a wind-up

wirelessdude01 · 05-08-2020 03:31PM

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

No outside the box thinking but then maybe going from school to college to school without much real world experiences has consequences for innovation and problem solving as we are seeing now.

Problem solving isn't in our paygrade. We feed the issues down into the sandpit where the department keep their collective heads!!!

Queried · 05-08-2020 03:33PM

PowerToWait wrote: »

Have you seen what their 'return to school' looked like?

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/education/ten-pupils-per-class-hourly-handwashing-what-reopened-schools-could-look-like-1.4234382

A maximum of TEN students per class with FOUR square METRES of contact free space per individual student.

2 metres between students on transport to school. Hand washing every sixty minutes. Staggered arrival and departure from school.

From what I've read on here, schools are mainly simply returning as per any other year, all students back, no distancing, no masks, no staggered times, 25-35 to a class.

I think that's pretty shoddy, not to mention dangerous tbh.

Just wanted to weigh in on this. I've been reading through what I've missed on this thread (still not up to date yet), but this post really stood out to me.

There has been a lot of back and forth on the thread about teachers' attitudes to returning to work. Maybe some don't want to return to work, but I really think the majority do. I want my normal routine back, I want to see the kids, I want to feel like I'm making a difference, I miss the job satisfaction. I really enjoy my job.

If teachers felt like they and their students were being protected, I think that we would be having a very different conversation. It's very unsettling to have no idea what we are going to walk into in a few weeks. I haven't heard anything at all about the action that is being taken in my school, bar being forwarded the roadmap. My school has over 800 pupils.

If I was told that the classroom that I would be walking into at the end of August would be like the ones in Denmark, as described above, it would calm my nerves a lot. I think the vast majority of teachers would be more than happy to go into a classroom where suitable precautions have been taken. It is difficult to not be worried about returning to work when times are so uncertain and we have no idea what we will face. We are told repeatedly by experts that we need to keep our distance and wear masks in indoor spaces. It's hard to consider the fact that we are probably going to be asked to forget that for the time that we are at work. I understand the difficulties of mandating masks for children and the logistics of implementing social distancing but it definitely has created a dissonance in my mind after being told that it's what needs to be done to keep others safe. It's hard to reconcile what we have been repeatedly told to do with this U-turn that we appear to be seeing when it comes to schools. Hopefully we will get more guidance from the department so that students and teachers feel more protected going back to school. Just my two cents.

Lillyfae · 05-08-2020 03:36PM

Queried wrote: »

If teachers felt like they and their students were being protected, I think that we would be having a very different conversation. It's very unsettling to have no idea what we are going to walk into in a few weeks. I haven't heard anything at all about the action that is being taken in my school, bar being forwarded the roadmap. My school has over 800 pupils.

Your principal hasn't been in touch?

square ball · 05-08-2020 03:37PM

Would it be possible to change the school day. 1/2 of the students in from say 8 - 12.30, break for a half hour to clean and sanitize. The other 1/2 in from 13.00 to 17.30. Try and keep siblings in at same times if possible.

Could rotate every couple of weeks. Not ideal for parents but would reduce number of children in schools, numbers coming and going together, lunches etc. Could maintain social distancing with smaller class sizes. Primary students would lose out on about 40 hours per month.

The time could be made up with some extra home work and remove non essential subjects for the short term.

Smacruairi · 05-08-2020 03:39PM

square ball wrote: »

Would it be possible to change the school day. 1/2 of the students in from say 8 - 12.30, break for a half hour to clean and sanitize. The other 1/2 in from 13.00 to 17.30. Try and keep siblings in at same times if possible.

Could rotate every couple of weeks. Not ideal for parents but would reduce number of children in schools, numbers coming and going together, lunches etc. Could maintain social distancing with smaller class sizes. Primary students would lose out on about 40 hours per month.

The time could be made up with some extra home work and remove non essential subjects for the short term.

Suggested. Govt said no.. Because reasons

Queried · 05-08-2020 03:40PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Your principal hasn't been in touch?

Hi Lillyfae,

We received an email with the roadmap and generic letter from the Minister of Education but that's it. I am guessing that the in-school management team are trying to figure out what to do as the principal is very conscientious and usually keeps us in the loop. Still hard knowing so little though.

wirelessdude01 · 05-08-2020 03:40PM

square ball wrote: »

Would it be possible to change the school day. 1/2 of the students in from say 8 - 12.30, break for a half hour to clean and sanitize. The other 1/2 in from 13.00 to 17.30. Try and keep siblings in at same times if possible.

Could rotate every couple of weeks. Not ideal for parents but would reduce number of children in schools, numbers coming and going together, lunches etc. Could maintain social distancing with smaller class sizes. Primary students would lose out on about 40 hours per month.

The time could be made up with some extra home work and remove non essential subjects for the short term.

How would that fit in with teachers contracts?

Alrigghtythen · 05-08-2020 03:41PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

How would that fit in with teachers contracts?

Lol

grind gremlin · 05-08-2020 03:44PM

square ball wrote: »

Would it be possible to change the school day. 1/2 of the students in from say 8 - 12.30, break for a half hour to clean and sanitize. The other 1/2 in from 13.00 to 17.30. Try and keep siblings in at same times if possible.

Could rotate every couple of weeks. Not ideal for parents but would reduce number of children in schools, numbers coming and going together, lunches etc. Could maintain social distancing with smaller class sizes. Primary students would lose out on about 40 hours per month.

The time could be made up with some extra home work and remove non essential subjects for the short term.

This would leave us with little planning time outside of our work hours to prepare work for each day.
There’s is no way a proper clean up could be done in 30 mins.... also who does it? Will it be the teachers meaning they work straight through?
While some people think we only work half days, the workday is intense. You don’t have a minute to yourself from the second the children arrive.
Or do we have an army of cleaners ready to do a half hour of cleaning in between classes? I can’t see many people lining up for that job.....

wirelessdude01 · 05-08-2020 03:44PM

Queried wrote: »

Hi Lillyfae,

We received an email with the roadmap and generic letter from the Minister of Education but that's it. I am guessing that the in-school management team are trying to figure out what to do as the principal is very conscientious and usually keeps us in the loop. Still hard knowing so little though.

I hadn't heard anything from our principal all July until last week but didn't need to as we had quite alot of work done on various scenarios. We couldn't progress any further until we knew further detail. We are a 210(ish) pupil school so easy to run things by people.

My OH on the other hand works in a 500(ish) pupil school. They haven't heard anything about knowing how their school operates their ISM team will be working away in the background and will present when they have former ideas.

Very hard to get consensus in larger schools so the ISM have to take it upon themselves.

Lillyfae · 05-08-2020 03:45PM

Queried wrote: »

Hi Lillyfae,

We received an email with the roadmap and generic letter from the Minister of Education but that's it. I am guessing that the in-school management team are trying to figure out what to do as the principal is very conscientious and usually keeps us in the loop. Still hard knowing so little though.

Fine if they're still trying to work out their details or whatever but it's very poor that they wouldn't even contact you to let you know that.

downthemiddle · 05-08-2020 03:46PM

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

No outside the box thinking but then maybe going from school to college to school without much real world experiences has consequences for innovation and problem solving as we are seeing now.

There’s outside the box and off your box. I’ll let others decide which category you fit.

wirelessdude01 · 05-08-2020 03:46PM

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Lol

Glad you find it so funny. Throat will never wash and well you know it.

iamwhoiam · 05-08-2020 03:48PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

How would that fit in with teachers contracts?

Good job that nurses and doctors and medical staff were willing to be flexible and move wards and be available .Orthopaedic surgeons who quickly trained to look after ventilated patients and work night shifts
A neighbour of mine is a HCA in X Ray and worked 8 -4 but during the crisis was willing to work on a busy ward on shifts
People were willing to be flexible as they knew that some things are simply vital in a crisis

bladespin · 05-08-2020 03:49PM

What's the confidence level like at the moment?
Our boys are due to return on the 27th and we've heard very little from the school as yet (bigish primary school major town) no signs of life round it either (we're just across the road really).

Alrigghtythen · 05-08-2020 03:49PM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Glad you find it so funny. Throat will never wash and well you know it.

I know it alright.

I remember back when we first where implementing procedures in response to the virus, the first thing we all said to our boss, thats not in me contract

Queried · 05-08-2020 03:50PM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Fine if they're still trying to work out their details or whatever but it's very poor that they wouldn't even contact you to let you know that.

Yeah it definitely makes the prospect of going back far more stressful, feeling very in the dark.

square ball · 05-08-2020 03:51PM

grind gremlin wrote: »

This would leave us with little planning time outside of our work hours to prepare work for each day.
There’s is no way a proper clean up could be done in 30 mins.... also who does it? Will it be the teachers meaning they work straight through?
While some people think we only work half days, the workday is intense. You don’t have a minute to yourself from the second the children arrive.
Or do we have an army of cleaners ready to do a half hour of cleaning in between classes? I can’t see many people lining up for that job.....

You would only need to plan for 1/2 as effectively you would be delivering the same class twice in the day.

Teachers don't clean in any school I have ever been in. A team of cleaners would be sanitizing. Class switching times should be staggered to allow more time and also reduce footfall in the building together.

Boggles · 05-08-2020 03:55PM

square ball wrote: »

You would only need to plan for 1/2 as effectively you would be delivering the same class twice in the day.

So multiply the school year time by 2?

19 years old getting out primary.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 05-08-2020 04:00PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Good job that nurses and doctors and medical staff were willing to be flexible and move wards and be available .Orthopaedic surgeons who quickly trained to look after ventilated patients and work night shifts
A neighbour of mine is a HCA in X Ray and worked 8 -4 but during the crisis was willing to work on a busy ward on shifts
People were willing to be flexible as they knew that some things are simply vital in a crisis

Didn't consultants withdraw from their covid-19 contracts?

One for all and all that

wirelessdude01 · 05-08-2020 04:01PM

square ball wrote: »

You would only need to plan for 1/2 as effectively you would be delivering the same class twice in the day.

Teachers don't clean in any school I have ever been in. A team of cleaners would be sanitizing. Class switching times should be staggered to allow more time and also reduce footfall in the building together.

You'd need a cleaner per room to do a proper deep clean in 20mins. That's all the time you'd have by the time you got all the first crew out the door and the few minutes needed to prep the room for the next crew. That would leave a break of about 20mins to do what we need to do including having lunch.

Realistically you would have staff in from 7am onwards to about 6/6:30pm. Heating the lighting costs would rise substantially. Insurance cover would also increase a huge amount.

square ball · 05-08-2020 04:05PM

Boggles wrote: »

So multiply the school year time by 2?

19 years old getting out primary.

Eh, not exactly.

The teachers would be giving the same lesson twice in the day as their class would be divided into two. The students would be losing out in 10 hours a week in school but could make up the time with extra homework.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 05-08-2020 04:07PM

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

I know it alright.

I remember back when we first where implementing procedures in response to the virus, the first thing we all said to our boss, thats not in me contract

"Above my pay grade" is a term I've seen used a few times.

iamwhoiam · 05-08-2020 04:12PM

jimmytwotimes 2013 wrote: »

Didn't consultants withdraw from their covid-19 contracts?

One for all and all that

Yeh the private consultants did . You must realise it was because their own patients surgery and post op cancer care was being postponed . One consultant at the time said he had no choice as his cancer patient were not having their follow up care
And the private hospitals were almost empty at one stage and needed to function again .

How will schools be able to go back in September? (Continued)

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