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Masks

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Comments

  • #7172
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    So if loads of community transmission happened in supermarkets; how did the numbers come down then? Thats a little more than an assumption.

    You are making the assumption. The assumption that community transmission did happen in supermarkets. And on the back of that assumption you are advocating to impose masks on all of us.





    Well actually there is not. We have some lab models and some fancy animations. What we don't know is the most important thing. What concentration of those droplets is dangerous and what is not. We don't now where dangerous concentrations occur and where not.

    So we're making the assumption that they just are and we pass that off as fact. And yet I'm the one accused of making assumptions.

    How about you stop using words like 'impose masks'. They aren't asking you to have them anally inserted or like a ned Kelly hemet. Its while you are in enclosed places where it is difficult to socially distance. For most probably about 30 mins to an hour a day'.


  • #7173
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,073 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    If you want to argue with me please stop the nonsense. I clearly said 'supermarkets and later shops'.

    I have no idea what you are on about.

    I directly replied to this post in which you stated:
    nothing much happened in supermarkets and shops between March and July

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=114214422&postcount=7149

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #7174
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Sconsey wrote: »
    Are you starting to contradict yourself? a few minutes ago you said nothing much happened in supermarkets, now you are saying you don't know what happened.

    Mother of Lord. I was just repeating your argument to put it against the fact that the numbers came down. I am not contradicting myself.


  • #7175
    namloc1980
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,499 ✭✭✭✭namloc1980


    Yes: surgical
    There's a strong correlation between non mask wearers and conspiracy theorists.


  • #7176
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    No: other
    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    So if loads of community transmission happened in supermarkets; how did the numbers come down then? Thats a little more than an assumption.

    You are making the assumption. The assumption that community transmission did happen in supermarkets. And on the back of that assumption you are advocating to impose masks on all of us.
    Nope, read my whole post and you will see I said we don't know either way. Based on that I would advocate erring on the side of caution and wearing a mask.

    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    Well actually there is not. We have some lab models and some fancy animations. What we don't know is the most important thing. What concentration of those droplets is dangerous and what is not. And where potentially dangerous concentrations occur and where not.

    So we're making the assumption that they just are and we pass that off as fact. And yet I'm the one accused of making assumptions.

    Now you have your head burried in the sand, if you choose to ignore a flood of scientific evidence then you may as well just keep making up your own 'facts'.


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  • #7177
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    joeguevara wrote: »
    How about you stop using words like 'impose masks'. They aren't asking you to have them anally inserted or like a ned Kelly hemet. Its while you are in enclosed places where it is difficult to socially distance. For most probably about 30 mins to an hour a day'.

    They are part of the restrictions imposed on us. Whats your problem with that phrase? Everyone has decide for themselves how disagreeable they are. If you don't mind them doesn't mean everyone does not.


  • #7178
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Sconsey wrote: »
    Nope, read my whole post and you will see I said we don't know either way. Based on that I would advocate erring on the side of caution and wearing a mask.

    I get that and I'd even go along with that only for the fact that we have driven numbers down to single digits with supermarkets open and no masks.
    Sconsey wrote: »
    Now you have your head burried in the sand, if you choose to ignore a flood of scientific evidence then you may as well just keep making up your own 'facts'.

    I have seen models not facts.


  • #7179
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    No: other
    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    Mother of Lord. I was just repeating your argument to put it against the fact that the numbers came down. I am not contradicting myself.

    So you are back to your position that you do know what happened in shops in terms of virus transmission? even though nobody else knows?


  • #7180
    YellowBucket
    Closed Accounts Posts: 491 ✭✭YellowBucket


    Retail took some of the most serious precautions and supermarkets are are generally big, specious, well ventilated spaces due to food hygiene norms. Those two factors are why they weren’t transmission locations.

    My local SuperValu has had strictly managed entry to ensure minimal numbers in store, constant announcements about social distancing and the need to enforce restrictions on entry at busy times, messages about not congregating around the displays in the aisles, asking people to bring a list, complete their shopping quickly and leave the store immediately when done.

    They’ve had hand sanitisers and trolley and basket handle wipes and now even full push through trolly sanitisers.

    Now mask wearing is basically 100%

    So in general it’s been retail that’s been doing an exemplary job on this since March.

    Any community spread is happening where people are letting their guard down and that’s never been supermarkets.

    I’m still seeing stupid stuff like a locally owned cafe chain that has those thermos milk jugs sitting out being handled by hundreds of people. Things like that need to be just copped onto a bit. It’s fairly obvious where you get risks of multiple contacts.

    Same place also had empty sanitisers at doors.

    I would also question the use of liquid alcohol in the sanitizer sprays - im seeing that a lot recently and it’s both nasty on your hands and I would doubt it’s as effective as you can’t spread it around.

    Ive started carrying my own again as I can’t trust those devices not to be full of just liquid alcohol stuff which really dries my skin.


  • #7181
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    Overheal wrote: »
    So it will take how many dead Irish to make you take it seriously>?

    Except they won't be dead from cv19 they'll be dead from other illnesses which will be falsely put down as cv19. The overwhelming vast majority of cv19 deaths have had underlying illnesses so it is iffy to say they died of cv19.


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  • #7182
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Sconsey wrote: »
    So you are back to your position that you do know what happened in shops in terms of virus transmission? even though nobody else knows?

    Well yes I am back to that. Yes I cannot know for certain.
    But what I have on my side of the argument is that the numbers came right down and supermarket staff were virtually unaffected. Clearly community transmission in supermarkets could not have happened to any degree or else the numbers could not have come down and we would have seen staff impact. Does that not make any sense to you at all?

    It makes more sense to me than the 'err on the safe side' assumption from you.

    What I have also on my side is that restrictions shouldn't be imposed based on assumptions. Its the restriction that should have an anti bias not the other way around.


  • #7183
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    No: other
    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    I get that and I'd even go along with that only for the fact that we have driven numbers down to single digits with supermarkets open and no masks.

    So nothing else happened? no lockdown, no restrictions on travel, interactions with people outside your own household, none of that had anything to do with the reduction in figures? Now that we are opening up we need to take sensible precautiouns.
    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    I have seen models not facts.

    I wonder do you ever look at the weather forecast? If you don't trust scientific models (many different models all saying the same thing) then I give up.


  • #7184
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    GT89 wrote: »
    Except they won't be dead from cv19 they'll be dead from other illnesses which will be falsely put down as cv19. The overwhelming vast majority of cv19 deaths have had underlying illnesses so it is iffy to say they died of cv19.

    So what you are saying is that you don't care if they die as they were already sick.


  • #7185
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Sconsey wrote: »
    So nothing else happened? no lockdown, no restrictions on travel, interactions with people outside your own household, none of that had anything to do with the reduction in figures? Now that we are opening up we need to take sensible precautiouns.



    I wonder do you ever look at the weather forecast? If you don't trust scientific models (many different models all saying the same thing) then I give up.

    I look at the weather forecast but I don't trust it as fact. Models are not facts, they are educated predictions. They have been spectacularly wrong. The droplet models all leave out the fact that we don't know anything about what a dangerous concentration level is and how long it stays dangerous etcpp.


  • #7186
    stockshares
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,760 ✭✭✭stockshares


    Does anyone know if Visors can be worn instead of masks on public transport.

    If so where can they be bought?


  • #7187
    GT89
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,770 ✭✭✭GT89


    No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend
    YellowBucket wrote: »
    Retail took some of the most serious precautions and supermarkets are are generally big, specious, well ventilated spaces due to food hygiene norms. Those two factors are why they weren’t transmission locations.

    My local SuperValu has had strictly managed entry to ensure minimal numbers in store, constant announcements about social distancing and the need to enforce restrictions on entry at busy times, messages about not congregating around the displays in the aisles, asking people to bring a list, complete their shopping quickly and leave the store immediately when done.

    They’ve had hand sanitisers and trolley and basket handle wipes and now even full push through trolly sanitisers.

    Now mask wearing is basically 100%

    So in general it’s been retail that’s been doing an exemplary job on this since March.

    Any community spread is happening where people are letting their guard down and that’s never been supermarkets.

    I’m still seeing stupid stuff like a locally owned cafe chain that has those thermos milk jugs sitting out being handled by hundreds of people. Things like that need to be just copped onto a bit. It’s fairly obvious where you get risks of multiple contacts.

    Same place also had empty sanitisers at doors.

    I would also question the use of liquid alcohol in the sanitizer sprays - im seeing that a lot recently and it’s both nasty on your hands and I would doubt it’s as effective as you can’t spread it around.

    Ive started carrying my own again as I can’t trust those devices not to be full of just liquid alcohol stuff which really dries my skin.

    Or maybe cv19 is being spread for the most part in worksplaces and mass gatherings and not in everyday public life such as in supermarkets, on public transport, in the bank/post office or in cafes as you point out. Then the people who pick up in the situations I've outlined are passing it on to family members. I don't believe it's quite as widespread in the community as some like to make out at least not enough to the extent where everyone should be either 2m apart or wearing a mask.

    I believe the masks are as much about giving people a sense of security and safety as they are about actually protecting people. It's as much about economic confidence as it is about health.


  • #7188
    Sconsey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,613 ✭✭✭Sconsey


    No: other
    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    I look at the weather forecast but I don't trust it as fact. Models are not facts, they are educated predictions. They have been spectacularly wrong. The droplet models all leave out the fact that we don't know anything about what a dangerous concentration level is and how long it stays dangerous etcpp.

    Why are you looking at the weather forecast then if you don't trust it? of couse they are wrong the occasional time but in general they are right.

    It seems like you are arguing that we should not wear masks, on the off chance that all the models are wrong?


  • #7189
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    GT89 wrote: »
    Except they won't be dead from cv19 they'll be dead from other illnesses which will be falsely put down as cv19. The overwhelming vast majority of cv19 deaths have had underlying illnesses so it is iffy to say they died of cv19.

    Very simple question, would they be alive now if they hadn't contracted Covid 19? Obviously you couldn't possible know that.

    If a person has terminal cancer and they gets hit by a bus. What killed them?

    Is the answer to that question "Shure they would have died anyway eventually"?


  • #7190
    CalamariFritti
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,339 ✭✭✭CalamariFritti


    Sconsey wrote: »
    Why are you looking at the weather forecast then if you don't trust it? of couse they are wrong the occasional time but in general they are right.

    It seems like you are arguing that we should not wear masks, on the off chance that all the models are wrong?

    No I am arguing against masks because we seem to have done pretty well without them and they seem a token gesture.

    Now I will not make a connection there just yet because it wouldnt really make any sense - even when I don't like masks I'm not that anti biased - but it appears that cases started rising right after we made masks mandatory. Weird isn't it?


  • #7191
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,908 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    No: I don't care enough
    joeguevara wrote: »
    So what you are saying is that you don't care if they die as they were already sick.

    Well he already said he wouldn't wear a mask because "I don't really care about the vulnerable tbh" so I think we can take that as read.


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  • #7192
    joeguevara
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,255 ✭✭✭joeguevara


    Loafing Oaf wrote: »
    Well he already said he wouldn't wear a mask because "I don't really care about the vulnerable tbh" so I think we can take that as read.

    Doesn't care about the vulnerable but feels sorry for himself when he receives 'verbal abuse' from a customer which turns out to be simply being called out for not wearing a mask. The hypocrisy and self delusion of a person who doesn't care about other vulnerable people but wants a hug when they feel vulnerable themselves.


  • #7193
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,073 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    GT89 wrote: »
    Except they won't be dead from cv19 they'll be dead from other illnesses which will be falsely put down as cv19. The overwhelming vast majority of cv19 deaths have had underlying illnesses so it is iffy to say they died of cv19.

    Our excess mortality rate for March to June was 1100-1200 higher because of cv19.
    So it's factually correct to state that the majority of cv19 deaths were due to cv19.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #7194
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    No: I don't care enough
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I don't know about America, but I can freeball/go commando here in Ireland without censure.

    Not being that clever. Try and do your shopping nude and tell me how you get on with that.


  • #7195
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    No: I don't care enough
    namloc1980 wrote: »
    There's a strong correlation between non mask wearers and conspiracy theorists.
    GT89 wrote: »
    Except they won't be dead from cv19 they'll be dead from other illnesses which will be falsely put down as cv19. The overwhelming vast majority of cv19 deaths have had underlying illnesses so it is iffy to say they died of cv19.

    QED, namloc


  • #7196
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,073 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Overheal wrote: »
    Not being that clever. Try and do your shopping nude and tell me how you get on with that.

    Or, more mundanely, try walking in to your local Tesco wearing no shirt, or no shoes or with your pet dog or smoking a cigarette or with a bottle of beer open in your hand and see how you get on.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #7197
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,566 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    odyssey06 wrote: »
    Or, more mundanely, try walking in to your local Tesco wearing no shirt, or no shoes or with your pet dog or smoking a cigarette or with a bottle of beer open in your hand and see how you get on.

    Challenge accepted.

    Now where do I get a dog.


  • #7198
    odyssey06
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36,073 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Boggles wrote: »
    Challenge accepted.
    Now where do I get a dog.

    You have to sing this song also:

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • #7199
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    No: I don't care enough
    Boggles wrote: »
    Challenge accepted.

    Now where do I get a dog.

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058101737

    ;):o


  • #7200
    Loafing Oaf
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,908 ✭✭✭✭Loafing Oaf


    No: I don't care enough
    odyssey06 wrote: »
    You have to sing this song also:
    And listen to Tesco staff chanting

    as they escort you from the store


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  • #7201
    MadYaker
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,351 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Yes: surgical
    CalamariFritti wrote: »
    No I am arguing against masks because we seem to have done pretty well without them and they seem a token gesture.

    Now I will not make a connection there just yet because it wouldn't really make any sense - even when I don't like masks I'm not that anti biased - but it appears that cases started rising right after we made masks mandatory. Weird isn't it?

    So cases still rise after the gov advised masks, in your head this makes masks useless so we just shouldn't bother? You don't think cases rising might have anything to do with us moving out of lockdown?


This discussion has been closed.
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