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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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Comments

  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    khalessi wrote: »
    I think you are doing a great with suggestions and lots of questions. So I think you can give them coats., and maybe a tent, maybe we could kick the principal out and let me see maybe we could weld some cars together to make a triage.

    Hold on, we have sold the cars and got campervans. So weld campervans together for a giant triage.


    Theres a nixer paying 143 a day if you implement ideas. I'm not sure if your solutions would be ideal but you should bring them to your principal and tell him that's how your risk assessed the situation


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    https://www.thejournal.ie/children-have-to-go-to-school-5164980-Aug2020/
    ALL STUDENTS ARE expected to return to school in the coming academic year as long as they are not themselves sick or at very high risk, the Department of Education has clarified, and are required not to miss more than 20 days off school.

    This includes children whose parents or other relatives may be at risk, or who may be anxious about the Covid-19 pandemic.
    I guess a lot of families are going to have to withdraw their enrolment. My nephew missed more than 20 days last year before the schools shut down.

    Also surely this policy will guarantee that kids end up going in to school sick.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    s1ippy wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/children-have-to-go-to-school-5164980-Aug2020/


    I guess a lot of families are going to have to withdraw their enrolment. My nephew missed more than 20 days last year before the schools shut down.

    Also surely this policy will guarantee that kids end up going in to school sick.
    As we know most years nothing happens but I reckon it will be watched like a hawk this year to make a point.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    Theres a nixer paying 143 a day if you implement ideas. I'm not sure if your solutions would be ideal but you should bring them to your principal and tell him that's how your risk assessed the situation

    I will remember to tell him that you helped with the tent and the coat as you really care for me and my well being


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    JJayoo wrote: »
    Let's say the schools open, what happens when an outbreak happens? What happens when multiple outbreaks happen?

    They close the class/school as appropriate in line with public health advice.

    https://www.thejournal.ie/irish-schools-covid-19-transmission-5110842-May2020/

    Although the first confirmed case of Covid-19 in Ireland occurred in a school-going child, the child had recently returned from northern Italy at the time they were found to have the virus.

    Two other cases in children and three adult cases of Covid-19 with a history of school attendance in Ireland were also identified by the authors.

    The study notes that epidemiological data for these cases indicated that none of these individuals contracted Covid-19 in a school setting.

    “One case was travel related, while three cases were part of a single household outbreak, also linked to travel,” the authors write.

    “One case was a close contact of a confirmed case in a recreational context, which was outside a school environment. One case was a contact of another case, and transmission occurred in a work environment.”

    A total of 1,155 contacts of these six cases were identified in the study, including people exposed in classrooms, during sports lessons, music lessons and during choir practice for a religious ceremony, which involved a number of schools mixing in a church.

    The authors said that of the 1,001 child contacts of these six cases, there were no confirmed cases of Covid-19.

    Among 924 child contacts and 101 adult contacts identified in the school setting, there were also no confirmed cases of Covid-19.

    “Prior to the nationwide closure of schools on 12 March, when a case was identified within a school, either all children and staff within the school or all children and staff involved with an individual case were excluded,” the authors said.

    “This limited the potential for further transmission within the school setting once a case was identified.”


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,921 ✭✭✭Bananaleaf


    s1ippy wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/children-have-to-go-to-school-5164980-Aug2020/


    I guess a lot of families are going to have to withdraw their enrolment.

    There will be some terrified parents of incoming 6th years who won't even feel like they truly have this option as the threat of another year of potential predicted grading hangs over them. Awful


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 2,980 ✭✭✭s1ippy


    A tentative scan of the landscape on WhatsApp indicates to me that parents who had planned to play it safe mostly, and send them in when they're confident with schools plans are safe are, now reconsidering. Two groups I'm in are discussing it; smart individuals, people working in medicine, pharma, biotech.

    My brother works for the HSE (consultant) and was reassigned from his usual work to do swabs, in the height of this in April. He moved out of home for two months to protect his family. He messaged this evening "There's no way we'll be putting [child] into an environment where people are under pressure to send their children, under threat of investigation by TÚSLA."

    It's his son's first year of school but he's planning on withdrawing the enrolment application. Between himself and his wife they can manage the homeschooling this year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,426 ✭✭✭wirelessdude01


    s1ippy wrote: »
    A tentative scan of the landscape on WhatsApp indicates to me that parents who had planned to play it safe mostly, and send them in when they're confident with schools plans are safe are, now reconsidering. Two groups I'm in are discussing it; smart individuals, people working in medicine, pharma, biotech.

    My brother works for the HSE (consultant) and was reassigned from his usual work to do swabs, in the height of this in April. He moved out of home for two months to protect his family. He messaged this evening "There's no way we'll be putting [child] into an environment where people are under pressure to send their children, under threat of investigation by TÚSLA."

    It's his son's first year of school but he's planning on withdrawing the enrolment application. Between himself and his wife they can manage the homeschooling this year.

    Anecdotally I'm also hearing of parents of incoming younger JIs withdrawing enrollments for this coming year and holding off for a year. This is going to play havoc which will result in schools losing teachers for school year 21/22.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,798 ✭✭✭BonsaiKitten


    s1ippy wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/children-have-to-go-to-school-5164980-Aug2020/


    I guess a lot of families are going to have to withdraw their enrolment. My nephew missed more than 20 days last year before the schools shut down.

    Also surely this policy will guarantee that kids end up going in to school sick.

    I can't speak for other schools but in mine we have the usual suspects who miss 20+ days every year without fail. Tusla does nothing about them - I imagine next year will be the same, especially as kids shouldn't be sent in with any Covid symptoms. There will be huge numbers missing 20+ days.

    I hated seeing that headline earlier though, so cold and I'm sure it stirred up panic for many parents.
    Anecdotally I'm also hearing of parents of incoming younger JIs withdrawing enrollments for this coming year and holding off for a year. This is going to play havoc which will result in schools losing teachers for school year 21/22.

    I think I'd do the same if I had a child due to start JI tbh. Though there is the argument that new starters are best placed to deal with the Covid changes, they know no different.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,215 ✭✭✭khalessi


    I can't speak for other schools but in mine we have the usual suspects who miss 20+ days every year without fail. Tusla does nothing about them - I imagine next year will be the same, especially as kids shouldn't be sent in with any Covid symptoms. There will be huge numbers missing 20+ days.

    I hated seeing that headline earlier though, so cold and I'm sure it stirred up panic for many parents.

    Yeah no humanity


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,832 ✭✭✭heldel00


    Anecdotally I'm also hearing of parents of incoming younger JIs withdrawing enrollments for this coming year and holding off for a year. This is going to play havoc which will result in schools losing teachers for school year 21/22.

    My son is going into Jun Inf and 4 have withdrawn application. If you had a young child (born Jan - June) then they wouldn't have gotten their full year of preschool and this might sway an undecided parent


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,729 ✭✭✭Millem


    Anecdotally I'm also hearing of parents of incoming younger JIs withdrawing enrollments for this coming year and holding off for a year. This is going to play havoc which will result in schools losing teachers for school year 21/22.

    They are better holding off if they can get another ecce year.
    My son is going into senior infants and I have heard of 2 kids in his year who’s parents have asked to repeat JI. They would be one of the youngest in the year as they didn’t take the second year of ecce. The school have said no!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,591 ✭✭✭gabeeg


    This was posted by woollyRedHat in the main thread. Doesn't seem to have made its way here yet
    Deeply concerning

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/williamhaseltine/2020/07/31/new-evidence-suggests-young-children-spread-covid-19-more-efficiently-than-adults/#79abfbc419fd


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 196 ✭✭Mossie1975


    Sister is a teacher was saying last night that if some infants are kept at home this year it will impact on teacher numbers. Local school lost a teacher for the incoming year. Gone from 4 mainstream classes to 3.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Midnight Sundance


    I've seen kids miss 60/70/80 days in a school year and nothing has been done about it. I wouldnt be worrying of they are hitting the 20days mark. Especially if they are under 6.they could miss nearly every single day of school and I very much doubt they would still do anything.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,773 ✭✭✭jimmytwotimes 2013


    Mossie1975 wrote: »
    Sister is a teacher was saying last night that if some infants are kept at home this year it will impact on teacher numbers. Local school lost a teacher for the incoming year. Gone from 4 mainstream classes to 3.

    Teacher allocation is based on previous year's student numbers. Their numbers won't be impacted by no shows this year. Even at that the no shows would still be registered as students of the school and count towards teacher allocation for next year.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭grind gremlin


    Millem wrote: »
    They are better holding off if they can get another ecce year.
    My son is going into senior infants and I have heard of 2 kids in his year who’s parents have asked to repeat JI. They would be one of the youngest in the year as they didn’t take the second year of ecce. The school have said no!

    This happens a lot and it drives me mad. Every couple of years we have a parent enrolling a child that is not developmentally ready for school. Recommendations fall on deaf ears and the child struggles with the academic / social side of things.
    In some cases the child manages without difficulty but this is the exception rather than the rule.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 798 ✭✭✭Midnight Sundance


    You don't have to be a scientist to deduct that kuds would be super spreaders of this virus.
    Look at the way a common cold or flu spreads around a classroom like wildfire and you can see that plain as day!!
    Id one kid in my room get chickenpox, couldn't understand one morning when I came in and a whole group of 6 children were missing and everyone else was in. Later realised everyone sitting at his table also caught chickenpox.
    If one or 2 kids get covid in a class there is very little chance of stopping it spreading in my opinion.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,537 ✭✭✭ldy4mxonucwsq6


    Very low risk of students and teachers transmitting Covid-19 at school, Australian study suggests:


    https://www.thejournal.ie/effective-testing-tracing-schools-5166779-Aug2020/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 539 ✭✭✭morebabies


    s1ippy wrote: »
    https://www.thejournal.ie/children-have-to-go-to-school-5164980-Aug2020/


    I guess a lot of families are going to have to withdraw their enrolment. My nephew missed more than 20 days last year before the schools shut down.

    Also surely this policy will guarantee that kids end up going in to school sick.

    In relation to this, do we assume also that if one child in a family has potential covid 19 symptoms, all the children in the family should self isolate until a test comes back and is negative? That would seem the obvious thing to do but surely this will amount to absences of more than 20 days.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,565 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Very low risk of students and teachers transmitting Covid-19 at school, Australian study suggests:


    https://www.thejournal.ie/effective-testing-tracing-schools-5166779-Aug2020/

    There is far more comprehensive "live study" taking place at the moment.

    Two Sydney schools closed after students test positive for coronavirus


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,376 ✭✭✭facehugger99


    s1ippy wrote: »
    My brother works for the HSE (consultant) and was reassigned from his usual work to do swabs, in the height of this in April. He moved out of home for two months to protect his family. He messaged this evening "There's no way we'll be putting [child] into an environment where people are under pressure to send their children, under threat of investigation by TÚSLA."

    Depressing to see that some parents will be jeopardising their kids educations and futures due to their own hysteria.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,283 ✭✭✭Deeec


    I think a way schools could deal with parents that send their kids to school sick would be to send a message out to all parents when a child goes home sick. This embarrasses and shames the parents - I think it would make parents think twice before sending their kids to school sick. Probably all kinds of data and gdpr issues here though.

    I think though it is going to be hard to judge when to keep a child at home. Lots of kids have runny noses and coughs all through the winter.

    Sadly also some parents cant leave their jobs during the day. Im lucky I can leave my job if I get a call that one of the kids are sick - the work has to be done but it is not urgent. My husband on the other hand is in a job that if he leaves it disrupts the whole business - it is essential he does his job when he is rostered. He cant leave. I pity parents that dont have flexibility.

    Also in secondary schools I can see some smart alecs coughing through class with the hope that they will be sent home straight away.

    Also the situation could arise where a teacher gets a call during the day to collect their child from school. Possibly there is no available teachers to look after their class. The class cant be divided and sent to other classes. Its going to be a problem for alot of parents.

    Also maybe someone can answer with what symptoms would a child be sent to the isolation area? Would they be sent home if they had a runny nose but no temperature?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    Boggles wrote: »
    There is far more comprehensive "live study" taking place at the moment.

    Two Sydney schools closed after students test positive for coronavirus

    3 pupils and the 2 schools were closed for cleaning


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,565 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    3 pupils and the 2 schools were closed for cleaning

    So far. And it's not just cleaning.
    Both schools have been closed for deep cleaning and NSW Health teams have begun contact tracing.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,548 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Queried wrote: »
    All very good points, then education system is such an important part of our society and provisions need to be made to support families financially should a child display symptoms and need to be tested. Children catch colds and viruses so easily, wiping up snots is a large part of the job for 6 months of the year for many infant teachers :) Given that it would appear children are incredibly low risk (thank God) it's understandable that many wouldn't be too concerned about cold-like symptoms. However, as alrigghtythen mentioned, schools have a duty of care not only to other pupils but to society. Hopefully provisions will be put in place to encourage people to do the right thing and not be afraid of struggling financially as a result.
    I can't believe people still believe this. It was never more than wishful thinking at best, deliberate misinformation at worst.

    Recent extensive studies of over 60,000 contacts in South Korea have shown over 10s are as likely to catch and transmit CoViD-19 as adults, if not more likely.¹

    The outbreak in a Georgia,US camp² which infected 260 children and teens shows younger children to actually be at more likely to catch CoViD-19 than older children.
    "The overall attack rate was 44% (260 of 597), 51% among those aged 6–10 years, 44% among those aged 11–17 years, and 33% among those aged 18–21 years"

    ¹ https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/18/health/coronavirus-children-schools.html
    ² https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6931e1.htm


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,548 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    It’s not about “ turning a blind eye.” If a parent drops a child at the gate and disappears and refuses to answer their phone , there’s nothing a primary school do Most primary schools don’t have spare rooms or staff for an “ isolation space.” The DES cover these things by saying “ where possible .”
    I guess that's the one extra teacher per school accounted for. If this is anyway regular they will end up having to spend a signoficant amount of their time supervising those in isolation. Now just to find the spare room (after implementing all that good social distancing) to put them in.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,907 ✭✭✭munchkin_utd


    The one thing I dont understand is why the dept of education seems to be looking to have a universal plan that rural schools in areas that never had a case, and are not likely to see many if any in the future, are lumped in with (party loving) Dublin and the Pale which has 90%+ of cases nowadays.

    It seems to me that Dublin/ Kildare/ Laois need a cautious return to school as theres a distinct risk of someone having the virus and causing spread. Down in rural ireland especially in primary schools where students really come from a limited catchment area, theres little chance of an infection in the first place so whats all the fuss about?

    As an example of how its progressing elsewhere, the first regions have gone back to school in Germany yesterday (indeed, early finish to summer holidays) and gone back with full classes with little change to normal, so no distancing, no masks, just more ventilation than normal, lots of hand washing etc.

    I was somewhat shocked to hear what they are doing, but the one thing to note they have VERY low infection rates, probably eqivalent to rural Cork/ Galway/ Mayo etc. . The chance of anything happening is minimal, and theres a 4 level plan in place for alternating days etc should the situation in the community get worse, and thats implementable at a town / district level, all schools in whole state wouldn't be affected by a local cluster.
    In other states who will be going back over the next weeks, there's unfortunately higher infection rate so they'll likely have more stringent conditions, staggered starts and whatnot.

    it seems like a sensible enough strategy to recognise that in places of little risk, theres little risk and little need for full blown emergency measures, and places with low/ medium risk you need to be more careful if not much more careful.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,365 ✭✭✭Alrigghtythen


    Boggles wrote: »
    So far. And it's not just cleaning.

    What action do you think they should take?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 55,533 ✭✭✭✭Mr E


    Mod: Thread was coming close to the 10k limit so I've locked it.
    Continued here:


    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058101870


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