How will schools be able to go back in September?

helpful · 03-08-2020 10:30pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

A weakness i see is that if they need to isolate thats already 14 days
Parents need to be encouraged to keep them home if they are sick and not worried that it will be followed up if they do

First it would be 10 days because the weekends don’t count.
Plus sensible parents understand that they can go over the 20 days if it’s appropriate to keep the child at home and have certs if required. What the department must ensure is that parents are not keeping their children at home out of laziness which does happen.
The 20 days is very important in a lot of schools. I worked with a class where one child had missed 18 days by November and was taken out an hour early everyday by his parents so they would only have to make one collection (I was teaching first class he had a brother in infants). The 20 day rule is not there to catch decent people out

jrosen · 03-08-2020 10:33pm

Will Yam wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how many parents hold their kids back. This could well take some pressure off the system.

Do you mean incoming JI?

Yes I guess that could take some pressure off this year, would cause havoc next year.

wirelessdude01 · 03-08-2020 10:51pm

Will Yam wrote: »

It will be interesting to see how many parents hold their kids back. This could well take some pressure off the system.

Yes it would but add it in a different with the online side of things which the schools have been told to manage using existing staff.

Queried · 03-08-2020 11:02pm

I'm a primary school teacher and am eager to get back to work. Remote teaching and learning is not the same as face to face learning as hard as we've tried to make it work. I understand how important it is to our economy and society to have schools back in action. However, I will say I am quite nervous about it despite being in a 'low risk' category. It's very hard to prevent sickness from spreading around a class; the week leading up to the Christmas break last year I had max 8 children in my class, for the whole week, out of 32 due to a bug of some sort. My classroom just about fits all the tables required for all students as is. I'm concerned about children being sent in while sick, this is something that I have seen happen frequently. I have had parents tell me that they couldn't get time off work or someone to mind their child so they felt they had no choice but to send them in. I completely get where they are coming from, it's not an easy situation to navigate when both parents are working and don't have family or a childminder to fall back on. I hope employers will be understanding of parents having to take time off when their children display symptoms and that parents won't be afraid to keep their children home if they display symptoms (of reprisal for missing too many days is something that I know many parents worry about too). I have no answers to be honest but I hope we can open schools in a safe way. I'm going to enjoy my time with my high risk parents now before we go back because I know I will be nervous to see them once we are back. Never in a million years did I foresee us having these concerns back when we closed in March; I thought we would be back after Easter at the very latest! Sorry for the long post, just another perspective from a teacher who really would like to get back to normal but is a little scared.

jrosen · 03-08-2020 11:12pm

For parents who have the option to work from home they can accommodate a sick child or a child who is presenting with symtoms. But the parents who's job requires them on site will face the same challenges as before. Only this time the frequency will be higher. Out of those, who gets paid?

I know I dont. If I dont work I dont get paid. How many families can afford to take that hit numerous times throughout the year.
Im not saying its ok to send sick kids in, but unless the government support families either with direct financial support or a legislative change it will continue to happen.

Alrigghtythen · 03-08-2020 11:19pm

Queried wrote: »

I'm a primary school teacher and am eager to get back to work. Remote teaching and learning is not the same as face to face learning as hard as we've tried to make it work. I understand how important it is to our economy and society to have schools back in action. However, I will say I am quite nervous about it despite being in a 'low risk' category. It's very hard to prevent sickness from spreading around a class; the week leading up to the Christmas break last year I had max 8 children in my class, for the whole week, out of 32 due to a bug of some sort. My classroom just about fits all the tables required for all students as is. I'm concerned about children being sent in while sick, this is something that I have seen happen frequently. I have had parents tell me that they couldn't get time off work or someone to mind their child so they felt they had no choice but to send them in. I completely get where they are coming from, it's not an easy situation to navigate when both parents are working and don't have family or a childminder to fall back on. I hope employers will be understanding of parents having to take time off when their children display symptoms and that parents won't be afraid to keep their children home if they display symptoms (of reprisal for missing too many days is something that I know many parents worry about too). I have no answers to be honest but I hope we can open schools in a safe way. I'm going to enjoy my time with my high risk parents now before we go back because I know I will be nervous to see them once we are back. Never in a million years did I foresee us having these concerns back when we closed in March; I thought we would be back after Easter at the very latest! Sorry for the long post, just another perspective from a teacher who really would like to get back to normal but is a little scared.

Its understandable to be nervous. That's one thing that will be changed. If you suspect a child is i'll, they can not be permitted in to the classroom. They need be put in the identified isolation area. The days of turning a blind eye are over. And most employers will be accommodating. If thier is community spread they wont want thier employees getting it.

wirelessdude01 · 03-08-2020 11:25pm

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Its understandable to be nervous. That's one thing that will be changed. If you suspect a child is i'll, they can not be permitted in to the classroom. They need be put in the identified isolation area. The days of turning a blind eye are over. And most employers will be accommodating. If thier is community spread they wont want thier employees getting it.

Most of these children will just be sent back in the next day. This we all know will happen, it happens every year. The parents are allowed to self certify.

Alrigghtythen · 03-08-2020 11:29pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Most of these children will just be sent back in the next day. This we all know will happen, it happens every year. The parents are allowed to self certify.

I understand that was accepted in the past and the teachers put in the the position where they had no option. The schools duty of care to its other pupils and to society now has to take the Corona virus in to account. The teacher has to rejected them at the door. And if they come in the next day, isolate them again

Queried · 03-08-2020 11:38pm

All very good points, then education system is such an important part of our society and provisions need to be made to support families financially should a child display symptoms and need to be tested. Children catch colds and viruses so easily, wiping up snots is a large part of the job for 6 months of the year for many infant teachers

Given that it would appear children are incredibly low risk (thank God) it's understandable that many wouldn't be too concerned about cold-like symptoms. However, as alrigghtythen mentioned, schools have a duty of care not only to other pupils but to society. Hopefully provisions will be put in place to encourage people to do the right thing and not be afraid of struggling financially as a result.

wirelessdude01 · 03-08-2020 11:45pm

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

I understand that was accepted in the past and the teachers put in the the position where they had no option. The schools duty of care to its other pupils and to society now has to take the Corona virus in to account. The teacher has to rejected them at the door. And if they come in the next day, isolate them again

And the cycle starts again. The kid may spend the day in that isolation room as a high number of parents don't answer the phone call as they screen calls.

The likes of Liveline and Our fav 'The Doc' will be full of people giving out stink about the schools and how they are denying the kids their education. Those nasty, lazy teachers, who do they think they are will be the attitude.

Now I fully expect you to come back with some sarky and snide comment but those of us in the trade know this is quite likely to happen this year if we constantly isolate and re-isolate kids when they display symptoms.

Murple · 03-08-2020 11:49pm

iamwhoiam wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0803/1157119-germany-schools-reopen/

Schools in Germany due to open next week
Masks to be worn on corridors but not in the classes or playroom .
Regular ventilation advised too .

Of course we are aware of the danger, but we have very few new infections in our region," said Kay Czerwinski, a member of a local parents' association.

"The most important thing is to go back to school and avoid falling further behind, otherwise we risk having a lost generation," he told AFP.

Masks have so far not been made compulsory in schools in the region, but the state's health minister Bettina Martin told a local radio station that she wanted to "play it safe" and require masks outside of classrooms.

Other interesting points from the article that you chose to leave out:
"Other regions have already decided on compulsory masks in schools. In Berlin, where school starts on 10 August, pupils and teachers will have to wear them in all parts of the school apart from classrooms and playgrounds.
The same is true in Bavaria, where masks may even become compulsory in class, depending on the regional spread of the pandemic."

Alrigghtythen · 03-08-2020 11:55pm

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And the cycle starts again. The kid may spend the day in that isolation room as a high number of parents don't answer the phone call as they screen calls.

The likes of Liveline and Our fav 'The Doc' will be full of people giving out stink about the schools and how they are denying the kids their education. Those nasty, lazy teachers, who do they think they are will be the attitude.

Now I fully expect you to come back with some sarky and snide comment but those of us in the trade know this is quite likely to happen this year if we constantly isolate and re-isolate kids when they display symptoms.

I think it'll be the opposite. No one is going to support anyone who sends covid Jimmy in to school to infect thier child. Parents employer wont want them onsite if the hear the child is suspected covid. I'll be the first to call joe Duffy to defend you on this one.

Queried wrote: »

All very good points, then education system is such an important part of our society and provisions need to be made to support families financially should a child display symptoms and need to be tested. Children catch colds and viruses so easily, wiping up snots is a large part of the job for 6 months of the year for many infant teachers Given that it would appear children are incredibly low risk (thank God) it's understandable that many wouldn't be too concerned about cold-like symptoms. However, as alrigghtythen mentioned, schools have a duty of care not only to other pupils but to society. Hopefully provisions will be put in place to encourage people to do the right thing and not be afraid of struggling financially as a result.

I wonder if they'll consider extending the covid payment for such circumstances?

Parents too have a responsibility and most sensible ones will. You will have full support from the majority of the public to prevent sick children entering the classroom. It's against the schools and the countries infection control strategy. No one wants an uncontrolable breakout, no one wants sick children or elderly, or at risk people.

We have to all pull together to make this work. After what we've all been through over the last few months, most people will take a sensible approach. If we all take reasonable precautions we can all safely get back to a bit of normality (with enhanced covid measures)

Queried · 04-08-2020 12:20am

Totally get where you're coming from wirelessdude01. Many times I've had to deal with children being sent in sick, being sent home and then coming in the next day, still sick. I've had parents react very badly to being asked to come in again on the second day to come in to collect their still-unwell child. Most parents are reasonable but you'd struggle to find a teacher who hasn't had an experience of a parent who refuses to come in to collect a sick child. Maybe I am being too optimistic but I really am hoping that people will have some cop on and social responsibility given that circumstances will be very different this school year. It's scary having to rely on others to be keep us safe considering it only takes one person to start the spread. I'm just hoping that, because most of us have people we want to protect, people will do the right thing. Possibly hoping against hope here though; as I said, it only takes one. I suppose only time will tell, which is the worst part!

wirelessdude01 · 04-08-2020 12:24am

Queried wrote: »

Totally get where you're coming from wirelessdude01. Many times I've had to deal with children being sent in sick, being sent home and then coming in the next day, still sick. I've had parents react very badly to being asked to come in again on the second day to come in to collect their still-unwell child. Most parents are reasonable but you'd struggle to find a teacher who hasn't had an experience of a parent who refuses to come in to collect a sick child. Maybe I am being too optimistic but I really am hoping that people will have some cop on and social responsibility given that circumstances will be very different this school year. It's scary having to rely on others to be keep us safe considering it only takes one person to start the spread. I'm just hoping that, because most of us have people we want to protect, people will do the right thing. Possibly hoping against hope here though; as I said, it only takes one. I suppose only time will tell, which is the worst part!

See the weak link is us humans. We can be terribly selfish at times. I'm like you and would hope that people would have some cop-on but I think I'm grasping at straws.

byhookorbycrook · 04-08-2020 12:30am

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Its understandable to be nervous. That's one thing that will be changed. If you suspect a child is i'll, they can not be permitted in to the classroom. They need be put in the identified isolation area. The days of turning a blind eye are over. And most employers will be accommodating. If thier is community spread they wont want thier employees getting it.

It’s not about “ turning a blind eye.” If a parent drops a child at the gate and disappears and refuses to answer their phone , there’s nothing a primary school do Most primary schools don’t have spare rooms or staff for an “ isolation space.” The DES cover these things by saying “ where possible .”

byhookorbycrook · 04-08-2020 12:32am

helpful wrote: »

First it would be 10 days because the weekends don’t count.

Ironically enough ,if a teacher is sick on a Friday and the following Monday, it counts as 4 days .

Alrigghtythen · 04-08-2020 12:34am

byhookorbycrook wrote: »

It’s not about “ turning a blind eye.” If a parent drops a child at the gate and disappears and refuses to answer their phone , there’s nothing a primary school do Most primary schools don’t have spare rooms or staff for an “ isolation space.” The DES cover these things by saying “ where possible .”

They could buy a marquee for 600

The table below provides an illustrative example of the value of the minor works grant for
primary schools of various sizes.
School Size Current Minor Works
Grant
Enhanced COVID -19
element
Total Minor Works
Grant
60 €6,610 €6,610 €13,220
100 €7,350 €7,350 €14,700
200 €9,200 €9,200 €18,400
300 €11,050 €11,050 €22,100
400 €12,900 €12,900 €25,800
500 €14,750 €14,750 €29,500
Calculations in this table based on number of mainstream pupils only;

Bananaleaf · 04-08-2020 12:47am

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

They could buy a marquee for 600

When we talk about a marquee, is this what we are talking about or is it something more solid you're thinking of? Genuine question.

https://www.google.com/search?q=marquee&client=ms-android-samsung-gs-rev1&source=android-browser&prmd=ismvn&sxsrf=ALeKk02KeNdYwyUSbax7vxepWG5gh0JqTw:1596497833239&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhh_DxmYDrAhUjQhUIHRpxDBYQ_AUoAXoECBAQAQ&biw=360&bih=572#imgrc=wZ9PDpY_xX7c0M

I'm not being smart, I honestly don't know if I'm being too precious, but I would be absolutely freezing teaching in that thing in November. In your view (I'm honestly asking, there's no agenda here) would you be of the opinion that we need to just tough out the freezing cold and teach outdoors in the winter?

I honestly don't know .... I would probably want to object to that, but is that unreasonable of me? One one hand, in fairness
it would go a long way to solving the problem of both SD and ventilation, but on the other would we all end up with a cold? Is that the trade off? Maybe it is. Maybe taking turns to be out in the marquees so some of us are not out there all day? Or am I mad to be even considering this as a viable option? But sure the whole situation is mad.

TheValeyard · 04-08-2020 12:49am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

And the cycle starts again. The kid may spend the day in that isolation room as a high number of parents don't answer the phone call as they screen calls.

The likes of Liveline and Our fav 'The Doc' will be full of people giving out stink about the schools and how they are denying the kids their education. Those nasty, lazy teachers, who do they think they are will be the attitude.

Now I fully expect you to come back with some sarky and snide comment but those of us in the trade know this is quite likely to happen this year if we constantly isolate and re-isolate kids when they display symptoms.

It will be much easier than that. Any child showing symptoms and any parent refusing to answer phone or collect child, ring the Gardai.

To dangerous for them to be on campus. Gardai will arrange pick up of the child and pay a visit to the workplace of the parent.

Alrigghtythen · 04-08-2020 12:50am

Bananaleaf wrote: »

When we talk about a marquee, is this what we are talking about or is it something more solid you're thinking of? Genuine question.

https://www.google.com/search?q=marquee&client=ms-android-samsung-gs-rev1&source=android-browser&prmd=ismvn&sxsrf=ALeKk02KeNdYwyUSbax7vxepWG5gh0JqTw:1596497833239&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjhh_DxmYDrAhUjQhUIHRpxDBYQ_AUoAXoECBAQAQ&biw=360&bih=572#imgrc=wZ9PDpY_xX7c0M

I'm not being smart, I honestly don't know if I'm being too precious, but I would be absolutely freezing teaching in that thing in November. In your view (I'm honestly asking, there's no agenda here) would you be of the opinion that we need to just tough out the freezing cold and teach outdoors in the winter?

I honestly don't know .... I would probably want to object to that, but is that unreasonable of me? One one hand, in fairness
it would go a long way to solving the problem of both SD and ventilation, but on the other would we all end up with a cold? Is that the trade off? Maybe it is. Maybe taking turns to be out in the marquees so some of us are not out there all day? Or am I mad to be even considering this as a viable option? But sure the whole situation is mad.

Use it as the isolation room.

Nphet suggested them

wirelessdude01 · 04-08-2020 12:51am

TheValeyard wrote: »

It will be much easier than that. Any child showing symptoms and any parent refusing to answer phone or collect child, ring the Gardai.

To dangerous for them to be on campus. Gardai will arrange pick up of the child and pay a visit to the workplace of the parent.

Not a hope the gardai will/would get involved.

wirelessdude01 · 04-08-2020 12:52am

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

Use it as the isolation room.

Nphet suggested them

Parents definitely onto Liveline and 'The Doc' then. Could you imagine the headlines. Healthy child get sick due to suggestion posted on boards.ie ðŸ˜‚

TheValeyard · 04-08-2020 12:53am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Not a hope the gardai will/would get involved.

They will have to, zero choice. Principal places the call, child cannot under health and safety grounds be on campus. They must be removed and parent contacted and forced to bring child home.

Bananaleaf · 04-08-2020 12:57am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Parents definitely onto Liveline and 'The Doc' then. Could you imagine the headlines. Healthy child get sick due to suggestion posted on boards.ie &#55357;&#56834;

Isn't it funny how they have concrete, workable suggestions for where we should put the sick kids, but not a scent of a plan for where all the healthy ones are going to go?

Anyone would think they know we are going to need big isolation rooms :rolleyes:

Alrigghtythen · 04-08-2020 1:01am

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Isn't it funny how they have concrete, workable suggestions for where we should put the sick kids, but not a scent of a plan for where all the healthy ones are going to go?

Anyone would think they know we are going to need big isolation rooms :rolleyes:

The healthy ones will be in the classrooms and the staff room, sports hall etc.

With all the ill ones, numbers should be low enough. What are you spending the money on, can we get a rough break down?

khalessi · 04-08-2020 1:04am

Bananaleaf wrote: »

Isn't it funny how they have concrete, workable suggestions for where we should put the sick kids, but not a scent of a plan for where all the healthy ones are going to go?

Anyone would think they know we are going to need big isolation rooms :rolleyes:

Hilarious they think marquees or tents would be ok in Winter in Ireland.

wirelessdude01 · 04-08-2020 1:06am

khalessi wrote: »

Hilarious they think marquees or tents would be ok in Winter in Ireland.

Theory being that it takes any doubts about ventilation out of the equation.

Alrigghtythen · 04-08-2020 1:07am

khalessi wrote: »

Hilarious they think marquees or tents would be ok in Winter in Ireland.

What area have your school identifed for use as an isolation area? Is it poorly ventilated?

khalessi · 04-08-2020 1:09am

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Theory being that it takes any doubts about ventilation out of the equation.

Certainly does:pac::pac: but throws in flu and pneumonia instead, how anyone thinks it is ok is hilarious. The more I read the plan the more I would have loved to be a fly on the wall.

Diagrams yeah 80sq m classrrooms
No ventilation give em tents.

How many shots do you think they had for that one:pac::pac:

khalessi · 04-08-2020 1:09am

Alrigghtythen wrote: »

What area have your school identifed for use as an isolation area? Is it poorly ventilated?

Oh we are removing the roof

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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