How will schools be able to go back in September?

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 28-07-2020 09:44AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

All schools should have this all the time anyway. Someone who knows the best way a school building should be set up and someone who's capable of implementing changes. They don't have to be in the building during normal school time, and they wouldn't be now anyway as it's the summer holidays.

Edit: not a teacher

Keeping some kind of an engineer on retainer?

Leftwaffe · 28-07-2020 09:44AM

joe40 wrote: »

In the new teaching are they talking about new permanent posts or just a greater supply of sub teachers.

It will be hard to get people from abroad to come back for subbing work.

I live in the south but work in the North and wouldn't mind coming to the South to work (sterling taking a hammering main reason)

I would find it difficult to give up a permanent position for temporary work.

I'd say temporary positions, short term contracts. Could see these excess teachers being ousted after this is all over, if it ends.

Lillyfae · 28-07-2020 09:45AM

Boggles wrote: »

No, it's nothing to do with that.

Principals as far as I can tell will be relieved of their teaching duties one day a week to deal with Covid.

Sorry, it would cost 4.2 mill to allow principals to stop teaching 20% of the time??

Joe Kane · 28-07-2020 09:46AM

Does anyone know what's the situation or plan in place for children in secondary school who would be extremely compromised?

Boggles · 28-07-2020 09:48AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Sorry, it would cost 4.2 mill to allow principals to stop teaching 20% of the time??

No, the 4.2 million is for some mystery "aide" who is going to make the school covid safe or something before it opens.

Boggles · 28-07-2020 09:48AM

Joe Kane wrote: »

Does anyone know what's the situation or plan in place for children in secondary school who would be extremely compromised?

Tough shít it would seem.

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 09:49AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Is it known how many teachers in the whole country are looking for work? How many qualified this year for example?

I do know at primary level that once you include the October bulge of retirements this year that there is will be a net reduction of teachers. I know Norma bandied about a figure of 2000 teachers who are registered with the TC but not employed here. A know a few who keep their registration up to date as it only costs €65 incase they change their mind and go back. They have no intention. Actually the likes of Norma herself would be in those figures as would a significant number of TDs who are teachers by qualification.

ldy4mxonucwsq6 · 28-07-2020 09:50AM

Joe Kane wrote: »

Does anyone know what's the situation or plan in place for children in secondary school who would be extremely compromised?

Nothing for students yet, but this is what it says for staff.

"There are some school staff who may be unable to return to school. Current public
health guidelines have identified these people as being in groups who are defined as
being at very high risk."

mirrorwall14 · 28-07-2020 09:50AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I do know at primary level that once you include the October bulge of retirements this year that there is will be a net reduction of teachers. I know Norma bandied about a figure of 2000 teachers who are registered with the TC but not employed here. A know a few who keep their registration up to date as it only costs €65 incase they change their mind and go back. They have no intention. Actually the likes of Norma herself would be in those figures as would a significant number of TDs who are teachers by qualification.

Yeah many retired teachers keep their number. But I know several who won’t be helping out this year even though normally they are pressured because ‘there’s no one else’

Lillyfae · 28-07-2020 09:53AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

I know Norma bandied about a figure of 2000 teachers who are registered with the TC but not employed here. A know a few who keep their registration up to date as it only costs €65 incase they change their mind and go back. They have no intention.

Should be a rule that if someone has spent a finite amount of time either not teaching or upskilling or both then they aren't eligible for registration. Just goes to show it's not the "vocation"people make it out to be.

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Actually the likes of Norma herself would be in those figures as would a significant number of TDs who are teachers by qualification.

Ha, I'm like a broken record as to why this is the root of a significant amount of problems :pac:

Leftwaffe · 28-07-2020 09:54AM

Joe Kane wrote: »

Does anyone know what's the situation or plan in place for children in secondary school who would be extremely compromised?

You'd imagine this would have been one of the priorities but nothing set yet.

Provision for the live streaming of lessons if these kids have to remain at home is my first thought. Or at least the recording of lessons with a proper camera, not an effing iPad.

If I have kids in this scenario this is what I'll be doing for them if there's nothing concrete in place. Will buy the camera myself.

khalessi · 28-07-2020 09:55AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Should be a rule that if someone has spent a finite amount of time either not teaching or upskilling or both then they aren't eligible for registration. Just goes to show it's not the "vocation"people make it out to be.

This word drove me mad as a nurse and as a teacher, if I wanted a vocation I would have become a nun.

lulublue22 · 28-07-2020 09:56AM

Joe Kane wrote: »

Does anyone know what's the situation or plan in place for children in secondary school who would be extremely compromised?

That’s not clear at the moment. I presume it will be clarified at some stage. However and this is not aimed at yourself more of a general observation. I found it very interesting that in relation to provision for staff and children Norma made reference to very high risk / cocooning. I expect there are a number of parents who are concerned for their children re the return to school but who will not fit in to the very high risk category.

Icantthinkof1 · 28-07-2020 09:58AM

I am not a teacher and up until yesterday I’ll be honest I did not have much empathy for teachers as I honestly thought at the very least the class sizes would be reduced and ‘pod’s’ would attend school every 2 or 3 days as I never thought anyone in their right minds would stand over cramming 30children into one classroom for over 5 hours 5 days a week (primary’s)
As a parent going forward I worry for you, for my children and everyone else’s children and I am very disappointed in the Government.

Boggles · 28-07-2020 09:59AM

1,000 kids a day being confirmed positive of Covid in Florida for the past week.

Sure be grand.

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 09:59AM

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

Yeah many retired teachers keep their number. But I know several who won’t be helping out this year even though normally they are pressured because ‘there’s no one else’

We had one lady who came in a few times last year as a favour to our principal as they were friends. I know in another school that a retired teacher was offered/asked to take a maternity leave as they had ZERO applications for it. That person pretended that they were going abroad for a 2 month holiday. This was in a good school about 40mins drive from Dublin city centre with excellent transport links so should have been a favourable choice for someone looking to get a foot in the profession. Teachers really aren't there.

Retired teachers have done their work already and deserve to put their feet up. Due to age and health factors, most of these would be in the at risk categories anyway.

lulublue22 · 28-07-2020 10:00AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Should be a rule that if someone has spent a finite amount of time either not teaching or upskilling or both then they aren't eligible for registration. Just goes to show it's not the "vocation"people make it out to be.

Ha, I'm like a broken record as to why this is the root of a significant amount of problems :pac:[/QUO

It’s a job with it’s own terms and conditions. Many young teachers went abroad as they were unable to secure any form of consistent work. I’ve no problem in any one being on the register they are qualified teachers.

am_zarathustra · 28-07-2020 10:04AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

To be fair though, despite what they think, neither do teachers. They can throw up all the scientific research they want to but they have BAs and not BScs so their understanding is as limited as the research itself at this point. I'd also like to see claims of underlying conditions put to the test because it's being used as an argument for everything at this stage. I heard somewhere that this would be the case, that if someone says that they have an underlying condition that prevents them from being at work then it will have to be proven, and it would have to be one that actually puts them at risk.

I see secondary schools as less of a problem. Children are older so can be made cognizant of the risks. It's possible to leave them unattended for half an hour. They can work independently and can use technology for support. The secondary schools themselves have more funding, are larger, and are generally in better nick than primary schools.

I do agree that it would have been far better to get the funding in place earlier, but the planning should have been there months ago.

It's illegal to leave them unattended to half an hour.

Underlying conditions have been listed and are straightforward enough so you can look at the list on the publicly available document if you so choose. This information is easy to access if your that interested.

Based on the last large scale analysis on spread, over 10s are just as likely to spread as adult, a a couple of studies pointing that older teenagers are possible more likely to spread illness.

Also a large number of teachers, like myself, who teach science and maths in fact do have BSc's, MSc's and even some PhDs. They require you to study science to teach it.

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 10:04AM

khalessi wrote: »

This word drove me mad as a nurse and as a teacher, if I wanted a vocation I would have become a nun.

I had a 'discussion' with our principal last year about this in relation to our profession. She would consider it a vocation whereas most people who like myself have had previous careers look at it as a job. Doesn't mean we care less but means maybe we are more aware of the pitfalls and issues within. Vocations are for nuns and priests is what I said to her.

Sammy2012 · 28-07-2020 10:06AM

Icantthinkof1 wrote: »

I am not a teacher and up until yesterday I’ll be honest I did not have much empathy for teachers as I honestly thought at the very least the class sizes would be reduced and ‘pod’s’ would attend school every 2 or 3 days as I never thought anyone in their right minds would stand over cramming 30children into one classroom for over 5 hours 5 days a week (primary’s)
As a parent going forward I worry for you, for my children and everyone else’s children and I am very disappointed in the Government.

As a teacher and a parent I'm worried about my own kids and the kids in my care. I also work in a school (which must children attend) where I know the principal will cut corners and I'm not 100% sure they school will be safe for anyone. They are currently running July provision and if my child was attending I'd be up in arms. And I'm sure I'm not alone in working in an environment like that. The guidelines are too open to interpretation so it remains to be seen what will actually happen in reality.

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 10:07AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

Should be a rule that if someone has spent a finite amount of time either not teaching or upskilling or both then they aren't eligible for registration. Just goes to show it's not the "vocation"people make it out to be.

Ha, I'm like a broken record as to why this is the root of a significant amount of problems :pac:

Why should they? A qualification is a qualification. They aren't costing anyone any money. Money wise they are wasting €65 on that useless shower at the TC.

khalessi · 28-07-2020 10:10AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Why should they? A qualification is a qualification. They aren't costing anyone any money. Money wise they are wasting €65 on that useless shower at the TC.

Sure I keep up my other professional registration and have no intention of going back. I am sure many teachers who had previous careers keep up their registration if it is necessary.

Lillyfae · 28-07-2020 10:14AM

lulublue22 wrote: »

It’s a job with it’s own terms and conditions. Many young teachers went abroad as they were unable to secure any form of consistent work.

People know this going in. Why are we training teachers for other economies??

lulublue22 wrote: »

I’ve no problem in any one being on the register they are qualified teachers.

Teaching qualifications from 30 years ago are very different to those obtained today, how could they possibly be qualified by today's standards? If someone is at retirement age and eligible for a full pension, then they should move over and let the people who are fresh for the job take up the employment. I would bet that the subs that are repeatedly called on would be the ones that are actually retired and still on the list, was certainly the case in my day. Additionally, there should not be a 2 tier system of employment.

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 10:17AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

People know this going in. Why are we training teachers for other economies??

Teaching qualifications from 30 years ago are very different to those obtained today, how could they possibly be qualified by today's standards? If someone is at retirement age and eligible for a full pension, then they should move over and let the people who are fresh for the job take up the employment. I would bet that the subs that are repeatedly called on would be the ones that are actually retired and still on the list, was certainly the case in my day. Additionally, there should not be a 2 tier system of employment.

Two tier pay is one of the main reasons why they go abroad. That coupled with precarious contract hours at secondary level is the main driver east. Would you blame them?

lulublue22 · 28-07-2020 10:19AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Two tier pay is one of the main reasons why they go abroad. That coupled with precarious contract hours at secondary level is the main driver east. Would you blame them?

Exactly.

ETA anyone on the register with 30 year old qualifications are recently retired and have spent the vast majority of their career upskilling. It’s a given in teaching. Given their skills and experience schools are damn glad when these teachers agree to come in to sub.

The casualisation of teaching at secondary level is responsible for a lot of the secondary sub issue but as per usual we these issues are raised by the unions it’s a case of those bloody teachers are they never happy.

jimmytwotimes 2013 · 28-07-2020 10:20AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

People know this going in. Why are we training teachers for other economies??

You wud have to prevent people with all types of qualifications from travelling if this was to be stopped across professions.

People train in Ireland, people leave Ireland. People train abroad, people return home.

joe40 · 28-07-2020 10:20AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Why should they? A qualification is a qualification. They aren't costing anyone any money. Money wise they are wasting €65 on that useless shower at the TC.

I think part of the reason is the hassle of getting re registered. The TC are not the easiest to deal with.

I had 20 years experience in NI teaching and the hassle to get registered was far too much. I still have to do a stupid exam for full registration.

wirelessdude01 · 28-07-2020 10:23AM

Looking at the document there are to be 58 supply panels and they said approximately 200 positions in total for these panels. If you distribute them evenly that equates to let's say 3.5 teachers per panel. Flu and cold symptoms are going to mean huge and I mean HUGE levels of absence this year. We know that normally we go in unless our leg is literally falling off. That would be countenanced this year and rightly so.

My question is what happens where there is no one to take the class that day? Class to be sent home? No Covid panel teachers available locally or in neighbouring panels, no subs available, SET in school already reallocated.

average_runner · 28-07-2020 10:23AM

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

Two tier pay is one of the main reasons why they go abroad. That coupled with precarious contract hours at secondary level is the main driver east. Would you blame them?

The payment system was always wrong. Unions never did anything to help on it.

Great teachers never get rewarded, I saw it for myself, thought myself maths, biology and economics in school as teacher were useless.

Had great Geography teacher though. He was probably on less than the others

Boggles · 28-07-2020 10:25AM

Lillyfae wrote: »

People know this going in. Why are we training teachers for other economies??

Anyone who trains in Ireland for any profession should have to stay in Ireland for the rest of their working lives?

Or should this nonsense just apply to teachers?

Also part of the "plan" is to tap 300 teachers who trained in the UK.

Obviously given your stance, you would be against hiring them?

How will schools be able to go back in September?

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