Masks

Quantum Erasure · 28-07-2020 01:18AM

NovemberWren wrote: »

it is: artificial, manufactured, Flu. it hits right through to the respiratory system.

the 'fear' part of this is: it is manufactured. and the fear also is - no-one knows exactly who is the Power that made this.

God.... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

:pac:

Quantum Erasure · 28-07-2020 01:31AM

Assetbacked wrote: »

The reason to wear masks is to assist with containing the spread when it is rising (with other measures including hygiene, social distancing, eating healthy and exercising) we are at astonishingly low levels in the community for 2 months now, having "effectively extinguished" the virus in the community. Our hospitals, even with bulked up capacity, have 15/16 people "with" covid in them so the resources are there to deal with a few weeks of cases increasing rapidly again.

Just means the difference between deaths in single figures per week and somewhere in the hundreds, and if we don't increase other restrictions when that happens, they will stay at that level for longer than they did the first time round.

Assetbacked · 28-07-2020 01:37AM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Quantum Erasure wrote: »

Just means the difference between deaths in single figures per week and somewhere in the hundreds, and if we don't increase other restrictions when that happens, they will stay at that level for longer than they did the first time round.

I'm sorry but I have to keep coming back to this point about how the virus is not very harmful at all to the under 65s and pretty much irrelevant for the under 45s (see latest data screenshotted backing this claim up). There is no indication it will come back without masks being widely used as the curve was not flattened in the first place due to mask wearing.

Now is not the time to make masks mandatory, maybe if we started to lose control of community transmission then it could be considered more seriously.

Arghus · 28-07-2020 01:42AM

But if you're arguing that masks are useful for suppressing the disease when cases are rising in the community then it stands to reason that masks are also useful at containing the spread while it's also at low levels in the community.

The curve wasn't flattened due to mask wearing, but it was due to other measures, but when you relax/remove those other measures then masks become more important.

yerwanthere123 · 28-07-2020 01:42AM

Still seeing plenty of people not wearing them in shops, but I'd say more are than not. In Killarney I'd estimate about 75% are wearing them?

Did just see a gard in full uniform without one though

Assetbacked · 28-07-2020 01:47AM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Arghus wrote: »

But if you're arguing that masks are useful for suppressing the disease when cases are rising in the community then it stands to reason that masks are also useful at containing the spread while it's also at low levels in the community.

The curve wasn't flattened due to mask wearing, but it was due to other measures, but when you relax/remove those other measures then masks become more important.

Well, they are useful at containing the spread so putting guidance in place that people should consider wearing them where social distancing is difficult is the prudent approach. The mandatory element in the current environment is what I take issue with.

Arghus · 28-07-2020 01:50AM

Assetbacked wrote: »

Well, they are useful at containing the spread so putting guidance in place that people should consider wearing them where social distancing is difficult is the prudent approach. The mandatory element in the current environment is what I take issue with.

Why? The mandatory element is just to ensure people do actually wear them. If you accept that masks are useful then surely you would prefer people to wear them?

Rubberchikken · 28-07-2020 01:58AM

Have been in a few shops the past couple of days, city and town and the majority seem to be wearing masks.

The few that aren't don't bother me. They could have any number of reasons for not wearing one and being ar$ehole$ might not be one.

In done ways it's a shame the government and the WHO etc were so slow to encourage people to wear them. I realise we need them in essential health services where I am, but still...

timetogo1 · 28-07-2020 03:32AM

No: I don't care enough

Assetbacked wrote: »

I'm sorry but I have to keep coming back to this point about how the virus is not very harmful at all to the under 65s and pretty much irrelevant for the under 45s (see latest data screenshotted backing this claim up). There is no indication it will come back without masks being widely used as the curve was not flattened in the first place due to mask wearing.

Now is not the time to make masks mandatory, maybe if we started to lose control of community transmission then it could be considered more seriously.

So younger people will probably recover if they get it. Not great comfort for the about 1 in 100 of below 50s that do die though I suppose.

Hopefully the ones that do recover won't pass it on to somebody who doesn't recover. Have you got the stats of people that don't recover properly and are left with long term illness?

The curve wasn't flattened due to mask wearing, you're right. It was due to nearly shutting down the country. We have to move away from that. Masks is a small tool that helps.

dwayneshintzy · 28-07-2020 05:15AM

Yes: to protect myself and others

I find it absolutely mental that people are saying we shouldn't use preventative measures (masks being one), unless things get bad again.

Hannibal36 · 28-07-2020 05:40AM

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

I find it absolutely mental that people are saying we shouldn't use preventative measures (masks being one), unless things get bad again.

Freedom is the reason, when society is corrupt and unfairly weighted towards the rich, why should a poor healthy man wear a mask to protect some elderly richer people, that he doesn't know or care about? He gets nothing from these people, they are not his responsibility and it's a massive government overreach to try and force this.

Until we reach a utopian society with no poor people then you have no right to ask somebody with nothing to now give up their fresh air, not enough with the massive wealth gaps that exist now and grows,fresh air isn't even free anymore to the poor man.

xhomelezz · 28-07-2020 05:41AM

Yes: valved

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

I find it absolutely mental that people are saying we shouldn't use preventative measures (masks being one), unless things get bad again.

Not surprised at all, look at the new school opening plan. Utter f...ing disaster made by government. All measures thrown out of the window.

dwayneshintzy · 28-07-2020 05:41AM

Yes: to protect myself and others

Hannibal36 wrote: »

Freedom is the reason, when society is corrupt and unfairly weighted towards the rich, why should a poor healthy man wear a mask to protect some elderly richer people, that he doesn't know or care about? He gets nothing from these people, they are not his responsibility and it's a massive government overreach to try and force this.

Until we reach a utopian society with no poor people then you have no right to ask somebody with nothing to now give up their fresh air, not enough with the massive wealth gaps that exist now and grows,fresh air isn't even free anymore to the poor man.

Didn't realise that all elderly and immune-compromised people in Ireland were rich......

28-07-2020 05:55AM

Hannibal36 wrote: »

Freedom is the reason, when society is corrupt and unfairly weighted towards the rich, why should a poor healthy man wear a mask to protect some elderly richer people, that he doesn't know or care about? He gets nothing from these people, they are not his responsibility and it's a massive government overreach to try and force this.

Until we reach a utopian society with no poor people then you have no right to ask somebody with nothing to now give up their fresh air, not enough with the massive wealth gaps that exist now and grows,fresh air isn't even free anymore to the poor man.

What the fưck.

Hannibal36 · 28-07-2020 06:20AM

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Didn't realise that all elderly and immune-compromised people in Ireland were rich......

I guess a middle class person would take that out of it, but it's not really relevant to my point.

People are just naive and I gotta live with that but even on the boards here it's not hard to see that this is a class virus. Only middle class and upper middle class can see a dangerous virus, some very very dim poor people might go along with u middle and upper middle,but any poor person with a half a brain knows a work when they see it.

dwayneshintzy · 28-07-2020 06:23AM

Yes: to protect myself and others

Hannibal36 wrote: »

I guess a middle class person would take that out of it, but it's not really relevant to my point.

People are just naive and I gotta live with that but even on the boards here it's not hard to see that this is a class virus. Only middle class and upper middle class can see a dangerous virus, some very very dim poor people might go along with u middle and upper middle,but any poor person with a half a brain knows a work when they see it.

So what about my post made you think I'm middle class? What's my job, mate? What's my parents jobs?

You're great at making assumptions about people.

28-07-2020 06:32AM

Right.. You wear masks to protect those around you. And you're making the argument that poor people can't be expected to wear masks just to protect the rich.

Since when are these poor people going to dinner parties with rich people? You'd think that maybe a poor healthy man might see the benefit of wearing a mask to protect his poor parents. You have to be a dumb fưcker to not wear one because Lord Henry over in his stables might somehow be protected by your actions.

Hannibal36 · 28-07-2020 07:12AM

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

So what about my post made you think I'm middle class? What's my job, mate? What's my parents jobs?

You're great at making assumptions about people.

At the end of the day man it doesn't matter your past or your parents jobs your class is where you are now, where you are at now shapes your thinking.

And like It your not you clearly have to be middle class and above, it might as well be tattooed on your forehead as is the same for any person who buys up a lot of inconsistencies one after another from the government, but life is so good for you you right now or good enough so that you block out clear and obvious evidence right in front of your nose, cognitive dissonance my man.

Hannibal36 · 28-07-2020 07:18AM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Right.. You wear masks to protect those around you. And you're making the argument that poor people can't be expected to wear masks just to protect the rich.

Since when are these poor people going to dinner parties with rich people? You'd think that maybe a poor healthy man might see the benefit of wearing a mask to protect his poor parents. You have to be a dumb fưcker to not wear one because Lord Henry over in his stables might somehow be protected by your actions.

But it's only Lord Henry's and his ilk that are pushing it here in boards, you are either making money from this with a business getting some of that covid bond money or like staying at home and getting paid and if you fall into neither of them categories and still believe in a virus that BLM protesters are immune to then the only fool is yourself.

xhomelezz · 28-07-2020 07:21AM

Yes: valved

Hannibal36 wrote: »

But it's only Lord Henry's and his ilk that are pushing it here in boards, you are either making money from this with a business getting some of that covid bond money or like staying at home and getting paid and if you fall into neither of them categories and still believe in a virus that BLM protesters are immune to then the only fool is yourself.

Tin foil hat section is right behind the corner

Hannibal36 · 28-07-2020 07:26AM

xhomelezz wrote: »

Tin foil hat section is right behind the corner

Haha there should be a word for you guys that are the first to be bring the tin foil hat to the party in any Debate,desperate for a like huh.

It's even a poor use of it my man, where is the Conspiracy? That rich people are making hay from this? The naive middle are in this morning that's for Sure, easy life you have had my man, way too easy.

dwayneshintzy · 28-07-2020 07:38AM

Yes: to protect myself and others

Hannibal36 wrote: »

At the end of the day man it doesn't matter your past or your parents jobs your class is where you are now, where you are at now shapes your thinking.

And like It your not you clearly have to be middle class and above, it might as well be tattooed on your forehead as is the same for any person who buys up a lot of inconsistencies one after another from the government, but life is so good for you you right now or good enough so that you block out clear and obvious evidence right in front of your nose, cognitive dissonance my man.

Don't live in Ireland right now. Would never in a million years vote for Fianna Fail or Fine Gael.

Where is the cognitive dissonance? I've talked about masks. You've made a bizarre claim that masks are only for middle and upper class people, somehow they discriminate against the poor and working class. This just doesn't make any logical sense.

Hannibal36 · 28-07-2020 07:47AM

dwayneshintzy wrote: »

Don't live in Ireland right now. Would never in a million years vote for Fianna Fail or Fine Gael.

Where is the cognitive dissonance? I've talked about masks. You've made a bizarre claim that masks are only for middle and upper class people, somehow they discriminate against the poor and working class. This just doesn't make any logical sense.

This is like Chinese whispers, I didn't say they discriminated but the reality is if you take a poll, middle and upper class are In support of them and lower classes are not.

It's become very clearly drawn on class lines it's the same in the states, so my question is again I can phrase it different why should poor people wear masks that richer people are trying to force them to wear, share some of your money first before you ask poor people to be as stupid as you.

xhomelezz · 28-07-2020 07:50AM

Yes: valved

Hannibal36 wrote: »

Haha there should be a word for you guys that are the first to be bring the tin foil hat to the party in any Debate,desperate for a like huh.

It's even a poor use of it my man, where is the Conspiracy? That rich people are making hay from this? The naive middle are in this morning that's for Sure, easy life you have had my man, way too easy.

Still don't understand what classes has to do with wearing masks. Of course some people making bucks out of covid, not naive. My easy life? Hmm yeah, full time job and single parent to two kids for last 7+ years. Yeah easy life for sure. You might dust off your crystal ball, doesn't work properly.

dwayneshintzy · 28-07-2020 07:51AM

Yes: to protect myself and others

Hannibal36 wrote: »

This is like Chinese whispers, I didn't say they discriminated but the reality is if you take a poll, middle and upper right class are In support of them and lower classes are not.

It's become very clearly drawn on class lines it's the same in the states, so my question is again I can phrase it different why should poor people wear masks they don't want or their relations don't want to, so they are only going to be wearing masks because the richer people want them to.

Cool, you've got some evidence. Can I see this link, please?

I don't buy your premise in the second paragraph. I'm not saying "poor" people should wear masks because rich people want them to, that's a straw man you've built up yourself. My view on masks, is that they can prevent spread (from symptomatic or asymptomatic people), it's a fairly unobtrusive thing to do and I don't see why this is so incredibly controversial to people.

xhomelezz · 28-07-2020 07:55AM

Yes: valved

Hannibal36 wrote: »

It's become very clearly drawn on class lines it's the same in the states, so my question is again I can phrase it different why should poor people wear masks that richer people are trying to force them to wear, share some of your money first before you ask poor people to be as stupid as you.

Jeez man, I'm not forced to wear one. I chose to wear one, coz it's seems to me like a good idea. I'm working through the pandemic and I'm gonna make sure I'll stay cautious to avoid infection, while getting on with things as normal as possible. Don't really give a toss, if person beside me in the shop is poor or rich, till they do the same, or keep away from me as far as possible. Simple

Graham · 28-07-2020 08:23AM

Assetbacked wrote: »

The reason to wear masks is to assist with containing the spread when it is rising (with other measures including hygiene, social distancing, eating healthy and exercising) we are at astonishingly low levels in the community for 2 months now, having "effectively extinguished" the virus in the community. Our hospitals, even with bulked up capacity, have 15/16 people "with" covid in them so the resources are there to deal with a few weeks of cases increasing rapidly again.

In this context, there is no need to make masks mandatory now.

Do yourself a favour and read the data in the attachment, then try to hold off hammering the keyboard.

The reason to wear masks is to stop it spreading.

In the first wave we went from our current level of cases to 20,000 cases in about 5 weeks.

Countries across Europe are already heading into a second wave yet you think we're somehow not susceptible to a second wave?

Minor inconvenience of wearing a mask, or risk hundreds more deaths, another hit on the economy and another lockdown.

Wear a mask.

Hannibal36 · 28-07-2020 08:23AM

xhomelezz wrote: »

Still don't understand what classes has to do with wearing masks. Of course some people making bucks out of covid, not naive. My easy life? Hmm yeah, full time job and single parent to two kids for last 7+ years. Yeah easy life for sure. You might dust off your crystal ball, doesn't work properly.

Class has got to do with it because the disagreement on wearing and not wearing is dividing exactly down class lines here and elsewhere.

As for your life it is not my fault life has skewed your priorities and made you believe yourself to be a victim,the movies tend to do that with single parents it was the drive to make them cool.

Reality is two children are a blessing and you are lucky to have them,lots of people far far worse off than you believe me and you don't have to do it while putting up with an interfering abusive partner,you are blessed you just don't realise it,but suffering you are not.Working hard maybe,but you are living,spare a thought for the homeless who dreamt of having kids like you and a job.

odyssey06 · 28-07-2020 08:24AM

Hannibal36 wrote: »

Freedom is the reason, when society is corrupt and unfairly weighted towards the rich, why should a poor healthy man wear a mask to protect some elderly richer people, that he doesn't know or care about? He gets nothing from these people, they are not his responsibility and it's a massive government overreach to try and force this.
Until we reach a utopian society with no poor people then you have no right to ask somebody with nothing to now give up their fresh air, not enough with the massive wealth gaps that exist now and grows,fresh air isn't even free anymore to the poor man.

We don't know if your poor healthy man is carrying the disease.
We don't know what people exposed to passive smoking will develop cancer as they age.
A state is entitled to ban smoking in public where there is a risk to the health of others.
Similarly a state is entitled to bring in rules on masks during a pandemic.

This has nothing to do with classes and rich v poor.
It's not just poor healthy young men and women being asked to wear masks, it's the middling and rich too.

It's called the generational contract.
Some day that poor healthy man will be an unhealthy old man.
He may be richer then, he may be poorer.
When that time comes, should the future generation of healthy young people ignore and abandon your poor healthy man?
They don't know him or care about him.

It's not the poor man's taxes paying for the police, the roads, the hospitals, the schools, social security.
Should the taxes from rich old people only get spent on nursing homes, pensions and geriatric care in hospitals?

If you want a state where there is no social contract, no generational contract and each just looks after their own, well, there would be long term consequences to that for your poor healthy man too.

And finally, in the short term, you are not just wearing the mask to protect older people.
You are wearing the mask to protect the economy.
You are wearing the mask to protect the health service from being overwhelmed and being able to treat you should you have an accident.

dwayneshintzy · 28-07-2020 08:31AM

Yes: to protect myself and others

Hannibal36 wrote: »

Class has got to do with it because the disagreement on wearing and not wearing is dividing exactly down class lines here and elsewhere.

As for your life it is not my fault life has skewed your priorities and made you believe yourself to be a victim,the movies tend to do that with single parents it was the drive to make them cool.

Reality is two children are a blessing and you are lucky to have them,lots of people far far worse off than you believe me and you don't have to do it while putting up with an interfering abusive partner,you are blessed you just don't realise it,but suffering you are not.Working hard maybe,but you are living,spare a thought for the homeless who dreamt of having kids like you and a job.

You're assigning class status to posters and then claiming it as your "proof", which is patently ridiculous. Have you an actual link to back up what you're saying here?

Mask usage in many East Asian countries is over 95%, and I can assure you that the working class people make up more than 5% of the population in these countries. Is there also the divide between upper/middle and working class people here? If not, how come?

Masks

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