How will schools be able to go back in September?

xhomelezz · 27-07-2020 10:11PM

Sergio Ramos wrote: »

I didn't say it was the right balance, the right balance is hard to quantify, it's a good balance. Personally I would have had the teachers wearing face visors and kids wearing masks over a certain age where it's practical. The world needs to keep turning, the risks of not sending kids to school gets greater and greater as time goes on.

I have two kids in secondary school and of course I want them to go back to school, but not under this plan. I'll wait what their school is going to come up with and see. I would prefer to have slower start, couple days on couple days off, or week on week off. Less kids at school at the same time, more time for schools to get on with everything. I seriously can't imagine they'll be ready in 4 weeks.

glack · 27-07-2020 10:20PM

The diagrams are hilarious. The primary school ones are based on classrooms that are 60 or 80 metres squared. My classroom is 42 meters squared. I particularly love the suggestion to have children sitting between 2 desks. As in, 2 tables are placed side by side, one child at each end and one in the middle sat at the table legs. Comfy!

No suggestions anywhere that I can find as to what we are to do if we cannot fit our class into the room? Do we abandon social distancing altogether or what?

vid36 · 27-07-2020 10:31PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It's positive to see a full re-opening of schools in as 'normal' a manner as possible. Reading over the plan, it thankfully seems that some of the major disruption that was predicted will be avoided.

Fair play to the teachers for getting on board with this plan, it can't be implemented without them. That deserves recognition.

It is a Texas style reopening plan and we will all suffer the consequences As Dr Fauci says , the virus makes the rules and vague optimism is insufficient.

Risteard81 · 27-07-2020 10:36PM

vid36 wrote: »

As Dr Fauci says

Fauci is a fraud.

the corpo · 27-07-2020 10:48PM

I'm really waiting to see how our school interprets this document. Before talk of pods they were hopeful they could manage 1m distancing of the older kids, with some very clever room management, but if the only option is 5 or 6 kids around in a table in a pod, I'm not sure how we'll manage, but I can't see how I can send our kids back.

To make such a mockery of social distancing and all the hard work the nation has done over the last, jesus almost half a year, just feels rotten to it's core.

the corpo · 27-07-2020 10:50PM

glack wrote: »

The diagrams are hilarious. The primary school ones are based on classrooms that are 60 or 80 metres squared. My classroom is 42 meters squared. I particularly love the suggestion to have children sitting between 2 desks. As in, 2 tables are placed side by side, one child at each end and one in the middle sat at the table legs. Comfy!

Ah, does it say the distance? I've been wondering would this road map be based on the departments preferred class square footage, or the actual square footage found in most schools. Sigh.

khalessi · 27-07-2020 10:53PM

It is an eyesore of a dcoument alright between the mockery of social distancing, the incomplete list of symptoms, the lack of ppe for staff, 30 kids in a class with 40cm. It is embarrassing to think the Min of Ed is a teacher and doesnt even comtemplate how cold viruses (another version of coronavirus, one of the 7 types) travel around a room let alone vomitting bugs.

I feel very let down but not surprised at the same time.

combat14 · 27-07-2020 10:55PM

if it is safe to go back let's cancel the facemasks in shops and on buses too

let's have all the pubs really open first

and let's see all the TDs back in the dail too

then we can see about schools with no proper health and safety rules ....

sideswipe · 27-07-2020 10:57PM

Peter Flynt wrote: »

As a teacher of 20 years experience I am utterly appalled at the plan to return to schools to the point that I will give thought to quitting, and my school won't find an adequate replacement.

Can I ask what in particular is so bad about the plan? Or rather what you feel should happen?
Not **** stirring here btw, genuinely interested to hear the views of those on the front line of this.
Personally I can’t see an alternative to what is being suggested apart from keep schools closed until a vaccine is available.

khalessi · 27-07-2020 10:59PM

combat14 wrote: »

if it is safe to go back let's cancel the facemasks in shops and on buses too

let's have all the pubs really open first

and let's see all the TDs back in the dail too

then we can see about schools with no proper health and safety rules ....

I think we should all find our TD rep and stand 40cm them without a mask, as that is the distance on some of those drawings between children and see how comfortable they feel.

Grandeeod · 27-07-2020 11:02PM

khalessi wrote: »

It is an eyesore of a dcoument alright between the mockery of social distancing, the incomplete list of symptoms, the lack of ppe for staff, 30 kids in a class with 40cm. It is embarrassing to think the Min of Ed is a teacher and doesnt even comtemplate how cold viruses (another version of coronavirus, one of the 7 types) travel around a room let alone vomitting bugs.

I feel very let down but not surprised at the same time.

I'm only a concerned parent and already feel sick at the thoughts of it. A complete cop out and pass the buck to local schools scenario. I wouldn't even trust boards of management at this point as they can be influenced. Once again I'll say what was wrong with alternate weeks to reduce school capacity and keep the show on the road under review.

Icyseanfitz · 27-07-2020 11:04PM

sideswipe wrote: »

Can I ask what in particular is so bad about the plan? Or rather what you feel should happen?
Not **** stirring here btw, genuinely interested to hear the views of those on the front line of this.
Personally I can’t see an alternative to what is being suggested apart from keep schools closed until a vaccine is available.

Let staff use PPE, cut class numbers in half, so bring half the school in one week, the other half in the week after, make use of remote learning to cut down on contact hours, hand sanitizer stations in all classes, figure out how to safely do practical subjects, temperature checking in the morning at some point. There's lots they could have tried but they went with the easier option imo

sideswipe · 27-07-2020 11:06PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

It's positive to see a full re-opening of schools in as 'normal' a manner as possible. Reading over the plan, it thankfully seems that some of the major disruption that was predicted will be avoided.

Fair play to the teachers for getting on board with this plan, it can't be implemented without them. That deserves recognition.

Think you may be jumping the gun as far as ‘teachers getting on board’ is concerned if the comments of teachers here is anything to go by.

Sierra Oscar · 27-07-2020 11:07PM

Icyseanfitz wrote: »

Let staff use PPE, cut class numbers in half, so bring half the school in one week, the other half in the week after, make use of remote learning to cut down on contact hours, hand sanitizer stations in all classes, figure out how to safely do practical subjects, temperature checking in the morning at some point. There's lots they could have tried but they went with the easier option imo

I think what you suggest regarding a half and half split would be ideal in terms of creating the right environment for social distancing.

However the hard reality is that it wouldn't be tolerated by working parents. It's a calculated political decision.

am_zarathustra · 27-07-2020 11:09PM

My issue is primarily substitution and the diagrams for distancing. I teach in an inner city school in Dublin, we can barely staff our school through winter the last two years. I really mean barely, people gave up a lot of time, classes were merged. One day it was so bad we had several classes in a library with one teacher and an SNA. This is with at least 2/3 staff with a cold/flu on sight even though they shouldn't have been. My concern, and it will be realised this year, is schools will send kids home at 9 o clock because there aren't enough staff to open. There are no surplus teachers in Dublin, the cost of living is too high. No amount of mental gymnastics about jobsharing is going to make that untrue.

I also know a lot of teachers held off retiring until the 2% pay increase in October, will these staff be back in November, I doubt it. There will also be teachers close to the end of their careers going a little early. What the uptake for secondary teaching this year? Are we even at replacement level?

Classes cannot be split either, again no suitable staff. Good luck finding a spare Higher Level Maths teacher, or any language teacher in Dublin.

The class distancing is ludicrous. Most of our rooms can hold between 14-16 at social distancing, anyone with a passing interest knows these numbers don't exist except for the odd physics or music class. But all kids will be back somehow...........

If we'd been given this 2 months ago (and I can't see how this took 4 months) panels could have been set up of NQTs. Also just pay overtime......I don't know why this is such a no go......if you could teach an extra 4/5 hours young teachers might go for it. A tired subject expert is better than a randomer off the street. It shouldn't be necessary but I'm just not sure where the hours come from.

Icyseanfitz · 27-07-2020 11:11PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I think what you suggest regarding a half and half split would be ideal in terms of creating the right environment for social distancing.

However the hard reality is that it wouldn't be tolerated by working parents. It's a calculated political decision.

There's loads of businesses and people hurting at the moment, hell the whole world is, and with the number working from home or unemployed we are probably in the best position we could be for kids being at home every other week. Bowing to political pressure so that people have free child care isn't good enough in the current climate

Leftwaffe · 27-07-2020 11:11PM

So 1 metre social distancing in pp schools. Approx 16 per class group. Can anyone explain to me where the teachers are going to come from to teach these classes? Seriously, am I missing something?

Benimar · 27-07-2020 11:12PM

Grandeeod wrote: »

I'm only a concerned parent and already feel sick at the thoughts of it. A complete cop out and pass the buck to local schools scenario. I wouldn't even trust boards of management at this point as they can be influenced. Once again I'll say what was wrong with alternate weeks to reduce school capacity and keep the show on the road under review.

Couldn’t agree more. We have spent 4 months keeping our 2 kids safe, and are now faced with the decision of sending them back into an unsafe environment.

I’d gladly work around having them in half time in order to ensure they were in a safer environment.

downthemiddle · 27-07-2020 11:13PM

Risteard81 wrote: »

Fauci is a fraud.

Thanks Donald.

Peter Flynt · 27-07-2020 11:14PM

sideswipe wrote: »

Can I ask what in particular is so bad about the plan? Or rather what you feel should happen?
Not **** stirring here btw, genuinely interested to hear the views of those on the front line of this.
Personally I can’t see an alternative to what is being suggested apart from keep schools closed until a vaccine is available.

No social distancing (the plan for 1m social distancing is boll***s - they know it can't be done)
No mandatory masks/visors
Suggesting 93 people in one room - A gym.
No plan for what occurs when classes have to change every 40 minutes.
No plan to close schools with suspected Covid cases - Bring them to a room instead.
No plan to close schools with actual confirmed cases.
Insufficient numbers of sub teachers for what will inevitably be large absences.
Pupils told to wear MANDATORY masks on the bus to school . . but not required once there.
Providing plans for classrooms of size 17-24 students - Where do I place the other 6 in my Leaving Cert Maths class?

Need I go on?

Assetbacked · 27-07-2020 11:18PM

In my ignorance, I am not up to speed on the schools reopening but I was wondering what happens with transport to schools, are kids who take public transport going to be filling up public buses in 6 weeks?

gnf_ireland · 27-07-2020 11:19PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I think what you suggest regarding a half and half split would be ideal in terms of creating the right environment for social distancing.

However the hard reality is that it wouldn't be tolerated by working parents. It's a calculated political decision.

To be fair, I dont think half and half would be supported by any teacher who is also a parent either !!

Just to be clear, these proposals do not allow any working parents to go back into an office full time. It is likely children will be out pretty frequently given the guidelines provided today.

This is a calculated political decision - absolutely. Everything that the new government has said since coming to office clearly stated they wanted schools to open full time in September. They have demonised foreign holidays and sacrificed opening of pubs with this sole objective in mind.

And of course, not forgetting the fact that Micheal is also a teacher

The sad reality of this thread is it is now over 4 months old and we are no further along with having the schools reopened than we were after the Easter holidays. Yes, there is potentially some money being thrown at the problem, but there is no meaningful plan as to how schools will open and this is disappointing beyond belief. I am not sure which will be worse - the fiasco that was the 3rd term last year or the fiasco that will be the 1st term coming !

Smacruairi · 27-07-2020 11:22PM

gnf_ireland wrote: »

To be fair, I dont think half and half would be supported by any teacher who is also a parent either !!

Just to be clear, these proposals do not allow any working parents to go back into an office full time. It is likely children will be out pretty frequently given the guidelines provided today.

This is a calculated political decision - absolutely. Everything that the new government has said since coming to office clearly stated they wanted schools to open full time in September. They have demonised foreign holidays and sacrificed opening of pubs with this sole objective in mind.

And of course, not forgetting the fact that Micheal is also a teacher

The sad reality of this thread is it is now over 4 months old and we are no further along with having the schools reopened than we were after the Easter holidays. Yes, there is potentially some money being thrown at the problem, but there is no meaningful plan as to how schools will open and this is disappointing beyond belief. I am not sure which will be worse - the fiasco that was the 3rd term last year or the fiasco that will be the 1st term coming !

I remember a back and forth with you 3 months ago, and we agreed we would plan as best as we could. Has your opinion changed slightly that the govt, more specifically the DES is absolutely brutal?

Sierra Oscar · 27-07-2020 11:22PM

sideswipe wrote: »

Think you may be jumping the gun as far as ‘teachers getting on board’ is concerned if the comments of teachers here is anything to go by.

The reaction from union officials has been cautious but generally positive. The next couple of days will tell I guess. Realistically though, what is the alternative for teachers? This is the only plan we have.

Grandeeod · 27-07-2020 11:23PM

Benimar wrote: »

Couldn’t agree more. We have spent 4 months keeping our 2 kids safe, and are now faced with the decision of sending them back into an unsafe environment.

I’d gladly work around having them in half time in order to ensure they were in a safer environment.

Its not rocket science, is it. So simple to do a reduced capacity thing, just like we did with reopening the economy and kids still get back to school and we can all move forward to some degree under review and a bit safer than a bang em all back to school thing. I'm no lockdown merchant, but it can all be opened up if we adapt and accept a different way with different methods that can be relaxed as we move through things.

Smacruairi · 27-07-2020 11:24PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The reaction from union officials has been cautious but generally positive. The next couple of days will tell I guess. Realistically though, what is the alternative for teachers? This is the only plan we have.

Wait for the sheer volume of concerned parents to kick up a fuss, like the leaving cert, and not have the unions point out the obvious and be the bad guys. Presume that's the plan.

And you just know, just know, the govt will be late in providing something, or not have a form ready on time, and that will delay everything yet again. Unions need to be optimistic and not fall into the baited trap.

downthemiddle · 27-07-2020 11:25PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The reaction from union officials has been cautious but generally positive. The next couple of days will tell I guess. Realistically though, what is the alternative for teachers? This is the only plan we have.

Baldrick had a plan too. Not as cunning as this one though.

isup · 27-07-2020 11:26PM

Benimar wrote: »

Couldn’t agree more. We have spent 4 months keeping our 2 kids safe, and are now faced with the decision of sending them back into an unsafe environment.

I’d gladly work around having them in half time in order to ensure they were in a safer environment.

I really don't want to send my 6 year old in. As up to now we've been careful. Not having people in out house and having limited contact with people always showing social distancing. I see kids everywhere that don't observe anything like this and it's going to be a big shock mixing the kids from both sides. Especially if parents and grandparents are at risk . Just counting the days now.

Peter Flynt · 27-07-2020 11:26PM

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

The reaction from union officials has been cautious but generally positive. The next couple of days will tell I guess. Realistically though, what is the alternative for teachers? This is the only plan we have.

In the week leading up to the closure of schools (March 5-11) there were 27 Covid cases confirmed.

In the past week there have been 127.

This plan is utter MADNESS.

gnf_ireland · 27-07-2020 11:28PM

Smacruairi wrote: »

I remember a back and forth with you 3 months ago, and we agreed we would plan as best as we could. Has your opinion changed slightly that the govt, more specifically the DES is absolutely brutal?

If memory serves me correct, I never claimed that the DES was anything other than brutal. What I said was that all parties needed to work together to come up with some sort of workable solution to bring kids back in September. I also suggested that we finish up the academic year in May to ensure there was sufficient effort put into making sure September was a success. Sadly, here we are 3 months after that discussion and little has moved on.

But to answer your question re DES - I think it is very evident to anyone looking at the leaving cert fiasco and the fact that they now cannot get the results out until 7th September, despite having no exams to correct, shows what the DES are capable of doing - and that is sweet f*** all. So yes, my opinion of DES has gone down since our April discussion, and I genuinely did not think that would be possible

How will schools be able to go back in September?

Comments