#SpeakOut - Sexual Assault Allegations Superthread

LineOfBeauty · 20-07-2020 12:15pm

weareallmarks wrote: »

If legal action is coming a lawyer will tell their client to stfu while they investigate.
That is normal.
If he is guilty, then he should be locked up and key thrown away. He has put his case forward for his innocence. Now the accusers can refute that and sue him

He is putting his case forward in the same arena that cancelled him.

Which he can do but this is a guy who right away tried the intimidation, public lawyering up tactic, clearly that's gotten nowhere and now he's gone public.

Again, I've yet to hear a feasible motive why so many women would accuse this man of rape if it weren't true. He is the extreme example of a culture that is horrible and out of control. What company would possibly book this ever again, let alone what normal person would give this guy the time of day let alone 58 minutes of self-preserving crap.

Lord TSC · 20-07-2020 2:20pm

weareallmarks wrote: »

You are not qualified to make comments on peoples mental health.

This is the issue with wrestling fans. You know nothing about the fella. I met him, he was a bell end. But I dont doubt his mental illness. Triggered by rotten behaviour doesnt mean its attention seeking or BS.

You are the issue with wrestling fans......Alot of them on here.

Mod Note:
While I think there's a valid point in your stance, please cut out the attacks on posters. "You are the issue with wrestling fans" goes beyond the discussion at hand and is delving into personal abuse.

Keep the attitude of "Discuss the posts, not the posters" please.

weareallmarks · 24-07-2020 11:14am

You and others are talking like doctors/psychologists diagnosing a patient. Do you also have opinions on the doctor who would perform surgery?

'Myself, and at least 8 people on here who feel he is not being genuine. That's fine too'

No it isnt. You and your 8 friends are not in a position to diagnose people.

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

:pac: Love the way you quoted me yet there was this with 7 thanks:

See "this is the issue with wrestling fans" you are talking about - that's called having an opinion. You believe he is genuine. That's fine. Myself, and at least 8 people on here who feel he is not being genuine. That's fine too.

Agree or disagree you have that right. But so do others.

weareallmarks · 24-07-2020 11:16am

Dont get me wrong, I hate the fella. I dont think that many accusations happen without reason.

BUT, my point was he would be told to stfu while a lawyer investigates. The women involved should sue tho bollix off him!

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Which he can do but this is a guy who right away tried the intimidation, public lawyering up tactic, clearly that's gotten nowhere and now he's gone public.

Again, I've yet to hear a feasible motive why so many women would accuse this man of rape if it weren't true. He is the extreme example of a culture that is horrible and out of control. What company would possibly book this ever again, let alone what normal person would give this guy the time of day let alone 58 minutes of self-preserving crap.

weareallmarks · 24-07-2020 11:17am

I hear ya mod, but the posters are making the posts about themselves by stating diagnoses of wrestlers depression......

Lord TSC wrote: »

Mod Note:
While I think there's a valid point in your stance, please cut out the attacks on posters. "You are the issue with wrestling fans" goes beyond the discussion at hand and is delving into personal abuse.

Keep the attitude of "Discuss the posts, not the posters" please.

beakerjoe · 24-07-2020 11:53am

weareallmarks wrote: »

I hear ya mod, but the posters are making the posts about themselves by stating diagnoses of wrestlers depression......

Alleged depression.

Lithium93_ · 24-07-2020 2:52pm

beakerjoe wrote: »

Alleged depression.

Conveniently timed, if Ospreay's depression is indeed because of the whole speak out, then where was his conscience and moral compass when his mate did what he did, why didn't he report his mate at the time? Why is it only manifesting now?

There's no doubt that Will's a fantastic wrestler, but there's questions to be put to him for what he knew, and why he didn't originally report it.

ShagNastii · 24-07-2020 5:57pm

I have never really commented on any #metoo or #speakout cause I feel it is a bit of a minefield unless you are fully rowing in behind the crowd.

Hypothetically if it was all consensual as Joey Ryan states he is still game to be written off? I'm tiptoeing when I ask but are "groupies" the big elephant in the room in an awful lot of this stuff?

I'd imagine if Ed Sheeran was on a world tour he could genuinely find a woman that wanted to sleep with him every night. If I did this every night for two hundred nights does this make his a scumbag or target for #metoo?

Trump got crucified for the "grab them by the p*ssy". But no one mentions the "They let you" that he followed it up with. Like my example,he has most certainly had females throwing themselves at him his whole life. For every time this happens should the recipient be expected to do nothing more than doff the cap and be apologetic every time.

B.A._Baracus · 24-07-2020 8:15pm

weareallmarks wrote: »

You and others are talking like doctors/psychologists diagnosing a patient. Do you also have opinions on the doctor who would perform surgery?

'Myself, and at least 8 people on here who feel he is not being genuine. That's fine too'

No it isnt. You and your 8 friends are not in a position to diagnose people.

And you are in no position to confirm this is genuine too. But you fail to acknowledge that.
You are quick enough to call myself and others out for not being psychologists but neither are you.

Again you have an opinion that he is genuine. That is fine. It's also fine that others don't believe him. You have to accept that. You've already said your point that you feel he is genuine. Fine. Cool. I, and others, have stated how we don't believe him. Fine. Cool.

You can either accept that or be a broken record.

beakerjoe · 25-07-2020 12:06am

Listen, are we in a position to state whether someone has a legit illness? No, if course not.

Are we free to speculate if its true or not by weighing up the situation. Yeah, we are.

He is in rhe public eye, and he appears to have bad some bad decisions and he is thus prone to scrutiny.

I can easily say that his depression could very well be real and he very well may be going through a tough time himself.

However do I believe it? No, I dont.

Whatever happens I hope hes ok and that he at least learns lessons from his bad choices

ShagNastii · 25-07-2020 10:15am

It’s easy to be cynical towards the timing of Ospreay dropping the depression card, but he has talked about it countless times in the last few years.

sky88 · 25-07-2020 10:18am

Ospreay Depression maybe real but he also brought it on himself trying to ruin someone’s career too many times I think people are using mental health to cover for them being a**holes

The White Wolf · 25-07-2020 11:39am

sky88 wrote: »

Ospreay Depression maybe real but he also brought it on himself trying to ruin someone’s career too many times I think people are using mental health to cover for them being a**holes

I would wager most people on here would know someone who does similar, I mean I can hold my hands up and admit I've done it myself.

It really is simple - there is no excuse, be it mental health or substance abuse, for making someone else's life a living hell.

sky88 · 25-07-2020 11:56am

The White Wolf wrote: »

I would wager most people on here would know someone who does similar, I mean I can hold my hands up and admit I've done it myself.

It really is simple - there is no excuse, be it mental health or substance abuse, for making someone else's life a living hell.

For sure but I think if you held your hands up and say I did Wrong instead of what I think this was a cynical deflection move

ShagNastii · 25-07-2020 12:30pm

sky88 wrote: »

Ospreay Depression maybe real but he also brought it on himself trying to ruin someone’s career too many times.

That’s extremely petty. Hypothetically speaking if something totally abhorrent came from said depression would you still fly the “well he brought it on himself” flag.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

Agent Coulson · 25-07-2020 12:47pm

Maybe his depression lead him to make the wrong choices in the first place to try and make himself feel better about himself.

How many here will speak about their own issues with depression before casting the first stone at someone else to make themselves feel righteous.

The White Wolf · 25-07-2020 1:10pm

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Maybe his depression lead him to make the wrong choices in the first place to try and make himself feel better about himself.

How many here will speak about their own issues with depression before casting the first stone at someone else to make themselves feel righteous.

Well as I said I've been in the position myself, and would say I've had to own the wrong choices I made while struggling.

It's not an easy thing to do at all so god speed to Ospreay. I wish him no ill will. Sh1t happens and all we can do is try to absorb them and become better for it.

beakerjoe · 25-07-2020 4:02pm

ShagNastii wrote: »

That’s extremely petty. Hypothetically speaking if something totally abhorrent came from said depression would you still fly the “well he brought it on himself” flag.

Two wrongs don’t make a right.

The whole issue hopefully will be a lesson for him and others. Hes capable of seeing the errors in his actions. At the end of the day he was in the wrong, but it doesnt mean his life should be hell either. If he wants to change and do right, he deserves forgiveness.

beakerjoe · 25-07-2020 4:04pm

The White Wolf wrote: »

Well as I said I've been in the position myself, and would say I've had to own the wrong choices I made while struggling.

It's not an easy thing to do at all so god speed to Ospreay. I wish him no ill will. Sh1t happens and all we can do is try to absorb them and become better for it.

Welp all make bad choices, no one is perfect. Id be happy to watch him perform again. People who try to be better derseve redemption.

LineOfBeauty · 25-07-2020 5:02pm

Love Ospreay the wrestler, for my money he's been the best bell to bell wrestler of the last 2 years.

But that fandom absolutely blinds people when talking about this. He's been caught red handed, the lies he tried to get away with about blackballing Pollyana were laid bare in public and his mental health defence is pathetic. No matter how great a wrestler he is, there's no free pass on this one and anyone who is a fan of his has to accept what that comes attached with, which is that this man ruined a woman's career for being raped by one of his mates. That's the black and white of it.

beakerjoe · 25-07-2020 5:12pm

LineOfBeauty wrote: »

Love Ospreay the wrestler, for my money he's been the best bell to bell wrestler of the last 2 years.

But that fandom absolutely blinds people when talking about this. He's been caught red handed, the lies he tried to get away with about blackballing Pollyana were laid bare in public and his mental health defence is pathetic. No matter how great a wrestler he is, there's no free pass on this one and anyone who is a fan of his has to accept what that comes attached with, which is that this man ruined a woman's career for being raped by one of his mates. That's the black and white of it.

It doesnt matter if hes a public figure or not, people who want to change deserve a chance to change. If hes willing to try change I'll support that. I dont think he should be blackballed if he genuinely shows remorse and tries to make amends.

But based off the anecdotal evidence, I think the despression, whether its real ir not, is a deflection.

So right now I wont be supporting him.

The White Wolf · 25-07-2020 5:20pm

To be fair to him, based on his Twitterisms it looked like he had matured over the last year big time. It must hurt to make such headway in your life only for the past to catch up on you. Anyone in a similar situation would be gutted beyond belief, but unfortunately one must still hold their hands up if caught.

LineOfBeauty · 25-07-2020 5:25pm

beakerjoe wrote: »

It doesnt matter if hes a public figure or not, people who want to change deserve a chance to change. If hes willing to try change I'll support that. I dont think he should be blackballed if he genuinely shows remorse and tries to make amends.

But based off the anecdotal evidence, I think the despression, whether its real ir not, is a deflection.

So right now I wont be supporting him.

White Wolf referenced it and to be fair to Ospreay he has matured and more power to him for that. Though I don't think that gets anybody a free pass given how horrible his actions back then were.

weareallmarks · 27-07-2020 10:03am

Have you treated him? Are you qualified to make any kind of diagnosis on someone you have never treated.

I understand that this is the internet and people can hide behind avatars etc, but your comments show who you really are.
Alleged depression, you know literally zero about anyones state of mind.

Unfortunately you are the wrestling fan in 2020

beakerjoe wrote: »

Alleged depression.

weareallmarks · 27-07-2020 10:06am

Mate research mental illness, hopefully you will never be affected by it yourself. I have been and continue to be. The signs are there, the recognizable signs. Of course I am not a doctor, but I have been treated by one.

Very few on this board have. But you and other choose to not believe someone who has a public history of it. I am coming off like an osprey defender when i dont like the fella. But some of the comments on here about mental illness has been scummy.

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

And you are in no position to confirm this is genuine too. But you fail to acknowledge that.
You are quick enough to call myself and others out for not being psychologists but neither are you.

Again you have an opinion that he is genuine. That is fine. It's also fine that others don't believe him. You have to accept that. You've already said your point that you feel he is genuine. Fine. Cool. I, and others, have stated how we don't believe him. Fine. Cool.

You can either accept that or be a broken record.

B.A._Baracus · 27-07-2020 10:26am

weareallmarks wrote: »

Mate research mental illness, hopefully you will never be affected by it yourself. I have been and continue to be. The signs are there, the recognizable signs. Of course I am not a doctor, but I have been treated by one.

Very few on this board have. But you and other choose to not believe someone who has a public history of it. I am coming off like an osprey defender when i dont like the fella. But some of the comments on here about mental illness has been scummy.

and around and round we go ...

You cannot accept the fact me and others just dont believe him. My posts thus far have been about "hey it's ok if you believe him, its ok if we dont" but you cannot accept that. You simply will not tolerate anyone having an opinion that differs from your own on this matter.

Could it be that your own issues are making you biased on this one? As you feel not believing Osprey is a personal attack towards you? ... it's not mate.

The White Wolf · 27-07-2020 11:05am

weareallmarks wrote: »

Mate research mental illness, hopefully you will never be affected by it yourself. I have been and continue to be. The signs are there, the recognizable signs. Of course I am not a doctor, but I have been treated by one.

Very few on this board have. But you and other choose to not believe someone who has a public history of it. I am coming off like an osprey defender when i dont like the fella. But some of the comments on here about mental illness has been scummy.

What on earth are you on about? I can't begin to tell you how ludicrous it is that you can say in such certain terms that no one on this board knows about mental illness and depression.

I can only imagine you would say something so stupid because you want to wind someone up enough to provoke a reaction.

Omackeral · 27-07-2020 11:18am

weareallmarks wrote: »

Have you treated him? Are you qualified to make any kind of diagnosis on someone you have never treated.

I understand that this is the internet and people can hide behind avatars etc, but your comments show who you really are.
Alleged depression, you know literally zero about anyones state of mind.

Unfortunately you are the wrestling fan in 2020

Having been around the forum a good while, and having met him in real life, I can safely say that Joe is one of the good guys. To be pedantic, it is perfectly fine to describe it as alleged depression because none of us here know the ins and outs of a stranger's medical certificates.

Needless personal jibes from you here IMO, somewhat ironically.

beakerjoe · 27-07-2020 2:31pm

weareallmarks wrote: »

Have you treated him? Are you qualified to make any kind of diagnosis on someone you have never treated.

I understand that this is the internet and people can hide behind avatars etc, but your comments show who you really are.
Alleged depression, you know literally zero about anyones state of mind.

Unfortunately you are the wrestling fan in 2020

It still alleged despression. Have you documentary evidence to suggest hes been diagnosed?

beakerjoe · 27-07-2020 2:32pm

weareallmarks wrote: »

Have you treated him? Are you qualified to make any kind of diagnosis on someone you have never treated.

I understand that this is the internet and people can hide behind avatars etc, but your comments show who you really are.
Alleged depression, you know literally zero about anyones state of mind.

Unfortunately you are the wrestling fan in 2020

And to add you also have no idea as to anyones state of mind. Its all hear say

#SpeakOut - Sexual Assault Allegations Superthread

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