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#SpeakOut - Sexual Assault Allegations Superthread

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  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    It's fascinating to watch how the world is embracing #Ibelieveher but yet people have no problem not believing a man's story.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    It's fascinating to watch how the world is embracing #Ibelieveher but yet people have no problem not believing a man's story.

    I personally judge each case on its own merits. Ospreay has done himself no favours.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 42,454 Mod ✭✭✭✭Lord TSC


    Lord TSC wrote: »
    Mod Note:
    While I think there's a valid point in your stance, please cut out the attacks on posters. "You are the issue with wrestling fans" goes beyond the discussion at hand and is delving into personal abuse.

    Keep the attitude of "Discuss the posts, not the posters" please.
    Unfortunately you are the wrestling fan in 2020
    But some of the comments on here about mental illness has been scummy.


    Second Mod Note:
    I asked you to cut out the personal side of things, going after posters rather than the posts.

    Do not post in this thread again.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Just to clarify, mental illness is a horrible thing, my mam suffers badly since I was born and I wouldnt wish anything on anyone, including anyone is a position like some of the metop accused.

    Will Ospreay may have depression, and the accusations leveled at him may well have contributed to it. No doubt.

    My own read is that whether its true or not, its being used as a deflection from the allegations made against him.

    As I said before, we most likely dont have all the facts, but based off the information before me he doesnt come off well at all.

    And also as I have said before, he deserves a chance to redeem himself. He without sin may cast the first stone and I can say most people on here are most likely have made big mistakes that they regret in their life. We learn from them and we can become better as a result. If hes willing to change, he deserves the opportunity.


  • Registered Users Posts: 339 ✭✭weareallmarks


    Exactly, bar your second paragraph. Your own read on someone you've never met, someone you've only seen do flips in spandex.


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    Just to clarify, mental illness is a horrible thing, my mam suffers badly since I was born and I wouldnt wish anything on anyone, including anyone is a position like some of the metop accused.

    Will Ospreay may have depression, and the accusations leveled at him may well have contributed to it. No doubt.

    My own read is that whether its true or not, its being used as a deflection from the allegations made against him.

    As I said before, we most likely dont have all the facts, but based off the information before me he doesnt come off well at all.

    And also as I have said before, he deserves a chance to redeem himself. He without sin may cast the first stone and I can say most people on here are most likely have made big mistakes that they regret in their life. We learn from them and we can become better as a result. If hes willing to change, he deserves the opportunity.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Exactly, bar your second paragraph. Your own read on someone you've never met, someone you've only seen do flips in spandex.

    I have the same information to read and speculate on someone that you do.

    You believe someone is being honest, true and up front when you have never had a personal relationship with him. We have the same right to speculate.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    Dream back on National TV, Joey Ryan and Wolfgang back tweeting and trying to worm their way back in. All examples of how pro wrestling simply can't police itself.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,166 ✭✭✭✭J. Marston


    Dream back on National TV, Joey Ryan and Wolfgang back tweeting and trying to worm their way back in. All examples of how pro wrestling simply can't police itself.

    Dream is one thing but I don't think the other two reappearing on Twitter is an indictment on wrestling. You can't stop them posting on social media.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    Dream back on National TV, Joey Ryan and Wolfgang back tweeting and trying to worm their way back in. All examples of how pro wrestling simply can't police itself.

    No one is being brought to court so it really is a company's prerogative whether they use someone or not. I'm not a fan of seeing him back on my TV mainly because messaging young fans is a bit too much for me and I'd be generally an open minded, case by case, kind of person.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    Dream back on National TV, Joey Ryan and Wolfgang back tweeting and trying to worm their way back in. All examples of how pro wrestling simply can't police itself.

    Not being smart but how could the industry police itself?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,013 ✭✭✭✭jaykhunter


    Agreed, that's like saying "let's police Anime"! it's a couple of separate companies with independent contractors (no unions) with only maybe a thousand jobs going at any one time, there's no standards and practices - it's the wild west. Wrestling is still too niche to be policed (sadly - it desperately needs it)


  • Registered Users Posts: 32,956 ✭✭✭✭Omackeral


    jaykhunter wrote: »
    Wrestling is still too niche to be policed (sadly - it desperately needs it)

    If only we could get some fella to call out scummy practices and to try get a union going.



    There was one? Recently? Wrestled here in Ireland? He did what?!


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,426 ✭✭✭montyrebel


    will those with accusations against them that are int he companies now being shown on the network alongside wwe programming be edited out? eg wolfgang in icw


  • Registered Users Posts: 48,990 ✭✭✭✭Lithium93_


    Pro wrestling policing itself, it's a fine idea in theory, but in it's execution, not so especially in a business known for it's politicking and backstabbing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 60,573 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    Marty Scurll could be done at ROH as well Delirious is now head of creative while Scrull is on hiatus while there is a human resources investigation on the claims made about him.


  • Registered Users Posts: 60,573 ✭✭✭✭Agent Coulson


    HHH said they investigated the accusations about Dream and cleared him and the reasons he was off TV was due to the car crash.


    HHH actually Trumped it with the phrase "It is what it is" and there is nothing to the accusations.

    Now some of those you accused him have said the WWE never contacted them regarding the accusations.

    Also reading reports that other talent in the WWE aren't happy that Dream seems to have gotten away with this when others have and would be fired for less.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Should WWE be reaching out to to those making allegations?

    Im not saying Dream is innocent but I imagine they are confident theres no real evidence just yet to fire Dream.

    Im sure if there was hard evidnece or an admission if guilt they would fire him immediately.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,211 ✭✭✭LineOfBeauty


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    Should WWE be reaching out to to those making allegations?

    Im not saying Dream is innocent but I imagine they are confident theres no real evidence just yet to fire Dream.

    Im sure if there was hard evidnece or an admission if guilt they would fire him immediately.

    What kind of investigation doesn't even attempt to get one whole side of the story? An investigation set up to find out nothing. He slid, Devlin will slide, Riddle slid. All guys with value to the company. Make no mistake, if they valued Travis Banks or even Jack Gallagher they'd still be there too.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    What kind of investigation doesn't even attempt to get one whole side of the story? An investigation set up to find out nothing. He slid, Devlin will slide, Riddle slid. All guys with value to the company. Make no mistake, if they valued Travis Banks or even Jack Gallagher they'd still be there too.

    A company wont get rid of an asset until they have to.

    Fact is they need evidence to dismiss an employee.

    Should they be the ones contacting those who make allegations? No they shouldn't. The police should.

    If hes charged they will dismiss him, or unless they have documentary evidence or an admission if guilt from the accused.


  • Registered Users Posts: 8,689 ✭✭✭sky88


    do the bigger companies like wwe,aew roh not open themselves to being sued for unfair dismissal if they let the accused go and these allegations cant be proven


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  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Id imagine the likes of Banks and Gallegher got canned because they admitter some wrong doing.

    Of course theres some truth in them trying to hold on to their bigger stars though. But if there was evidence or charges filed, their hands would be forced.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,187 ✭✭✭The White Wolf


    How much can a company do in terms of reaching out to someone who has made an accusation? I've no idea that's why I'm asking. I would assume there would have to be at the very least legal representation on both sides. Making contact with someone when no formal complaint has been made to the authorities just feels like a legal minefield. Again....I've no idea, probably talking out of my arse right now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    And what can a company really gain from reaching out?

    If the accuser had evidence youd imagine they would go to teh aithorties. At best they will get thir side and its their storty vs the other story, he said she said.

    WWE arent the appropriately positioned to have a fair investifation.

    The police are. If they decide there's enough to charge someone, then WWE should suspend until proven guilty.

    Vince has been accused many times if all types of crimes and lawsuits, a lot frivolous. So I can imagine him backing a talent once the talent cant be proved wrong. Like when Jericho allegedly assaulted a fan in 2008. It was his story vs their story and he backed Jericho.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,064 ✭✭✭✭CastorTroy


    Gallagher admitted to it, I believe, which is why he was fired. What did Riddle do? If I remember correctly, he was accused of cheating and it was all consensual. If they did everyone who had cheated, they would be down a lot of people, allegedly


  • Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,887 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    CastorTroy wrote: »
    What did Riddle do? If I remember correctly, he was accused of cheating and it was all consensual. If they did everyone who had cheated, they would be down a lot of people, allegedly

    Pretty sure his accuser alleged that he made her give him head despite being in a vehicle with other passengers.


  • Registered Users Posts: 80 ✭✭the eternal struggler


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    WWE arent the appropriately positioned to have a fair investifation.

    The police are. If they decide there's enough to charge someone, then WWE should suspend until proven guilty.

    A harken back to a time before Twitter.

    SENSE.


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    Pretty sure his accuser alleged that he made her give him head despite being in a vehicle with other passengers.

    Riddle alleges shes a bit of a stalker since they parted ways and makes her out to be a bunny boiler out for revenge.

    Its he said she said. No way of knowing who is truthful.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,772 ✭✭✭hynesie08


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    Riddle alleges shes a bit of a stalker since they parted ways and makes her out to be a bunny boiler out for revenge.

    Its he said she said. No way of knowing who is truthful.

    Except that he has changed his story 3 or 4 times, and she hasn't changed hers at all. Not saying he did anything illegal, but she's countered him every step of the way with text messages and pictures..... He might not be a rapist, but he's a scummy prick at the very least


  • Registered Users Posts: 20,753 ✭✭✭✭beakerjoe


    hynesie08 wrote: »
    Except that he has changed his story 3 or 4 times, and she hasn't changed hers at all. Not saying he did anything illegal, but she's countered him every step of the way with text messages and pictures..... He might not be a rapist, but he's a scummy prick at the very least

    Well hes admitted to cheating on his wife, so he is no angel.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 11,191 ✭✭✭✭B.A._Baracus


    beakerjoe wrote: »
    Well hes admitted to cheating on his wife, so he is no angel.

    With regards to that subject I have lost count how many times wrestlers have admitted to being unfaithful.

    Bret Hart admitting to sleeping with a woman he had on the side in Italy in 1992 whenever he was over there. All while he was still married to his wife Julie.

    Jake Roberts openly admitted he was unfaithful.

    Honky Tonk said he told his wife he may get a knock on the door one day from someone saying you are my daddy.

    Batista cheated on his wife with divas (accordingly Melina)

    Bray Wyatt is believed to have been cheating on his wife with JoJo.

    The British Bulldog was sleeping with Sunny.

    Edge was married when the Lita deal happened.

    Even ol' Vinny Mac admitted to an affair.

    Wrestling business is insane :pac:


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