FF/FG/Green Next Government

christy c · 21-07-2020 07:44PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

You say one in six housholds are jobless , unemployment rate was 5% preCobvid

Correct. One in 20 are officially unemployed, 1 in 6 were jobless.

RandomViewer · 21-07-2020 07:45PM

christy c wrote: »

Correct. One in 20 are officially unemployed, 1 in 6 were jobless.

You counting kids and pensioners?

Geuze · 21-07-2020 07:45PM

christy c wrote: »

Pre COVID we had approx. 1 in 6 households being jobless, that is quite a number IMO. Im not going to pretend this is the root of all problems, but it should be taken more seriously than it is.

Correct.

Our high rate of joblessness, and our similar high rate of VLWI, are not discussed enough.

James Brown · 21-07-2020 07:47PM

Geuze wrote: »

Correct.

Our high rate of joblessness, and our similar high rate of VLWI, are not discussed enough.

Because it's generally used as a red herring. Like 'free' houses.

Is it that the numbers of people listed as unemployed, or households with unemployment is so high we should continue to lease and buy rather than build? We'd rather have the tax payer foot hotel bills, leases for luxury apartments and private rentals instead of renting out property we own and recouping rent?

It's likely these people not working are doing so for legitimate reasons. You need look at government policy if you've an issue. Besides it has nothing to do with choosing the private market or building social housing.

Geuze · 21-07-2020 07:47PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

You say one in six housholds are jobless , unemployment rate was 5% preCobvid

Joblessness is much wider than unemployment.

In 2018 and 2019, the UNR was low in Ireland, heading for 5%, but joblessness was high.

We have lead Europe in joblessness for many years.

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christy c · 21-07-2020 07:50PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

You counting kids and pensioners?

No, households of adults under 66 and excluding students. Quite high isnt it?

christy c · 21-07-2020 07:52PM

Geuze wrote: »

Correct.

Our high rate of joblessness, and our similar high rate of VLWI, are not discussed enough.

It's a funny one, the government don't bring it up because of their poor record, and yet the opposition dont bring it up despite the scale of the problem.

RandomViewer · 21-07-2020 07:54PM

christy c wrote: »

No, households of adults under 66 and excluding students. Quite high isnt it?

So Michael O Learys wife and Dennis o Briens wives would be included in that?

Geuze · 21-07-2020 07:54PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

You counting kids and pensioners?

VLWI look at people aged 20-59

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-datasets/product?code=sdg_01_40

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php/Glossary:Persons_living_in_households_with_low_work_intensity

christy c · 21-07-2020 07:58PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

So Michael O Learys wife and Dennis o Briens wives would be included in that?

No, Michael has a job hence it's not a jobless household. Thought Denis lives in Malta?

Geuze · 21-07-2020 07:59PM

RandomViewer wrote: »

So Michael O Learys wife and Dennis o Briens wives would be included in that?

No, as MOL works I assume 5 days per week, their WI is 50%.

VLWI is 20% and below.

We have loads of inactive households, with no market income.

McMurphy · 21-07-2020 08:00PM

Geuze wrote: »

Correct.

Our high rate of joblessness, and our similar high rate of VLWI, are not discussed enough.

That's because the political leaders of the day would rather paint things differently..

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1130836512097132544?s=19

James Brown · 21-07-2020 08:01PM

May I ask, so what? How does this relate to our choices in supplying housing?

christy c · 21-07-2020 08:04PM

McMurphy wrote: »

That's because the political leaders of the day would rather paint things differently..

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1130836512097132544?s=19

Agreed. That's why I'd like to see a right/centre right party emerge from the rubble of this recession.

christy c · 21-07-2020 08:05PM

Bowie wrote: »

May I ask, so what? How does this relate to our choices in supplying housing?

People are allowed to talk about things other than housing.

James Brown · 21-07-2020 08:10PM

christy c wrote: »

People are allowed to talk about things other than housing.

It was raised in part due to a discussion on housing.

If it has no bearing, okay. As I said when it is raised it's usually as a red herring to try argue against building social. No magic money tree because...

christy c · 21-07-2020 08:14PM

Bowie wrote: »

It was raised in part due to a discussion on housing.

If it has no bearing, okay.

I don’t think it has no bearing on housing, but it's an issue by itself.

Bannasidhe · 21-07-2020 08:16PM

christy c wrote: »

Agreed. That's why I'd like to see a right/centre right party emerge from the rubble of this recession.

We already have 2 - 3 if you count Renua.
What do you think a 4th centre right party would do differently to the other 3?
And I haven't even mentioned the PDs.

I really don't get this whole if only we had a right/centre right party in govt they would sort it all out - we have never ever ever had a govt where a right/centre right party wasn't represented - usually in the majority.

The mess we are in are right/centre right messes - own it ffs.

Brendan Bendar · 21-07-2020 08:21PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We already have 2 - 3 if you count Renua.
What do you think a 4th centre right party would do differently to the other 3?
And I haven't even mentioned the PDs.

I really don't get this whole if only we had a right/centre right party in govt they would sort it all out - we have never ever ever had a govt where a right/centre right party wasn't represented - usually in the majority.

The mess we are in are right/centre right messes - own it ffs.

An unprecedented epidemic, a 12 week lockdown have nothing to do with it?

christy c · 21-07-2020 08:21PM

Bannasidhe wrote: »

We already have 2 - 3 if you count Renua.
What do you think a 4th centre right party would do differently to the other 3?
And I haven't even mentioned the PDs.

I really don't get this whole if only we had a right/centre right party in govt they would sort it all out - we have never ever ever had a govt where a right/centre right party wasn't represented - usually in the majority.

The mess we are in are right/centre right messes - own it ffs.

I think the current parties are centre left in a lot of ways, look at the current issue we are discussing, not a peep from them. Plus the growing welfare budget.

I think a right wing party is needed just to tip the scales back slightly in certain areas, where things like the enormous amount of jobless households are spoken about and some plan is tried to tackle it.

James Brown · 21-07-2020 08:34PM

christy c wrote: »

I think the current parties are centre left in a lot of ways, look at the current issue we are discussing, not a peep from them. Plus the growing welfare budget.

I think a right wing party is needed just to tip the scales back slightly in certain areas, where things like the enormous amount of jobless households are spoken about and some plan is tried to tackle it.

The idea that the left simply want more welfare is not true. Welfare were needed and working towards less of a dependence on welfare through fair wages and affordable rents.

Welfare growth is a symptom of right wing politics IMV. Keeping wages low and using private rentals/leases as social housing requires tax payer subsidies by way of welfare. The more expensive these things become the more tax paying workers are going to need some form of state aid.

We should look at jobless households. However it's quite likely the criteria needs changing as it's not believable these are mostly made up of welfare Ninjas gaming the system.

My idea would be pay people a wage were they can pay their own way and not be reliant on welfare in any form and supply state built housing as cheap rentals based on income and cut out the private market completely. Let the private market look after itself without tax payer funded welfare. Might encourage them to lower some pricing.

ExMachina1000 · 21-07-2020 08:55PM

McMurphy wrote: »

That's because the political leaders of the day would rather paint things differently..

https://twitter.com/LeoVaradkar/status/1130836512097132544?s=19

Rte ran an ad for fg.
Was backed up by official figures though

BonnieSituation · 21-07-2020 09:18PM

Truthvader wrote: »

Well that me told. Successive Irish goverments wrestling with the housing issue since the foundation of the state and some bloke Boards has the answer. And it was simple all the time. Who knew?

Do you know how housing worked in this State since foundation or do you think that nothing happened before 2002?

Shambolic level of posting.

BonnieSituation · 21-07-2020 09:27PM

christy c wrote: »

Agreed. That's why I'd like to see a right/centre right party emerge from the rubble of this recession.

Like Renua then?

---

What sort of policies would they pursue that you'd vote for?

blanch152 · 21-07-2020 09:28PM

Yurt! wrote: »

There's a mad zealotry to people opposing social housing in any form at play in this thread and others, no matter what model it takes that's quite frankly only explainable by the own property situation they're in that's stinging them some way.

There's a genuine psychosis at play. They have visions of an army of fictional single mothers rifling through their possessions and adding interest rate points to their over-leveraged buy to let mortgages that were a crap idea in the first place.

I've no problem making fun of these people, they're cartoon characters

That was funny, thanks for the laugh.

christy c · 21-07-2020 09:32PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Like Renua then?

---

What sort of policies would they pursue that you'd vote for?

I am not too keen on Renuas abortion policy (ironically the reason they existed in the first place). But they had some economic policies that at least were a change from the usual pandering to the "most vulnerable". Dont know what they are about at the moment.

Truthvader · 21-07-2020 09:32PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Do you know how housing worked in this State since foundation or do you think that nothing happened before 2002?

Shambolic level of posting.

??????! Maybe read back a bit before compulsively posting whatever comes into your head.

BonnieSituation · 21-07-2020 09:37PM

christy c wrote: »

I am not too keen on Renuas abortion policy (ironically the reason they existed in the first place). But they had some economic policies that at least were a change from the usual pandering to the "most vulnerable". Dont know what they are about at the moment.

So what right wing policies are you looking for a party to implement that you'd vote for?

christy c · 21-07-2020 09:40PM

BonnieSituation wrote: »

So what right wing policies are you looking for a party to implement that you'd vote for?

Are you going to start a party for me? Not giving welfare increases bigger than income tax cuts would be a start.

BonnieSituation · 21-07-2020 09:41PM

Truthvader wrote: »

??????! Maybe read back a bit before compulsively posting whatever comes into your head.

I asked you a question.

You seem to think that housing the people of Ireland was a struggle since the foundation of the State.

Now, I don't believe it had been, so it strikes me that you're likely not au fait on this subject at all.

So tell me, would the policy changes under FF and the PDs which have become the prevailing policies of all subsequent governments be all you have experience of?

FF/FG/Green Next Government

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