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How will schools be able to go back in September?

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  • #6212
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,536 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Hardware/ software/ broadband gaps

    They know the "broadband gaps". There is no quick solution for poor broadband.

    New Hardware and software will need to acquired for blended learning, so a procurement and tech document from the technical team at the department needs to be produced, tenders set up and funding provided, then you need installation and training.

    This can only come from the top down, not the bottom up.


  • #6213
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Boggles wrote: »
    They know the "broadband gaps". There is no quick solution for poor broadband.

    How many schools are in Ireland? They know exactly which and how many schools have issues? What is your definition of issues? Is this that the school doesn't have broadband or it's not working well? Point 1, they need to get broadband, point 2 the provider needs to be informed and send a engineer out to get it fixed ASAP.
    Boggles wrote: »
    New Hardware and software will need to acquired for blended learning, so a procurement and tech document from the technical team at the department needs to be produced, tenders set up and funding provided, then you need installation and training.

    Agree completely.
    Boggles wrote: »
    This can only come from the top down, not the bottom up.

    With assistance and good communication from the school's own management, otherwise what is the point of said management?


  • #6214
    Mrsmum
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,860 ✭✭✭Mrsmum


    Childcare is going to be a huge problem. Generally speaking the vast cohort of childminders out there mind other peoples babies and after school children only so they can be there for their own school going children. Now they will have their own children at home, the school going mindees at home and more than likely a baby or toddler, possibly both in the house too. And they will be supposed to do schoolwork with all those children in different classes ?? Or else numerous trips to school and playschools for staggered openings and closings with still some kids at home for the day. God help them.


  • #6215
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,250 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    Childcare is going to be a huge problem. Generally speaking the vast cohort of childminders out there mind other peoples babies and after school children only so they can be there for their own school going children. Now they will have their own children at home, the school going mindees at home and more than likely a baby in the house too. And they will be supposed to do schoolwork with all those children in different classes ?? Or else numerous trips to school and playschools for staggered openings and closings with still some kids at home for the day. God help them.

    Childcare already is a huge problem . Since most people are back in work I see grandparents around here minding up to four children .Grandads out pushing buggies and grandparents who had not minded before now minding kids daily
    From my own circle of family and friends we are all minding kids now as the parents simply have no choice . It cant carry on as the grand parents will be exhausted by September !


  • #6216
    Deeec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Deeec


    Mrsmum wrote: »
    Childcare is going to be a huge problem. Generally speaking the vast cohort of childminders out there mind other peoples babies and after school children only so they can be there for their own school going children. Now they will have their own children at home, the school going mindees at home and more than likely a baby in the house too. And they will be supposed to do schoolwork with all those children in different classes ?? Or else numerous trips to school and playschools for staggered openings and closings with still some kids at home for the day. God help them.

    Im hearing manty childminders are refusing to do homeschooling with school going children - in fairness they are right to do so - its not their responsibility. I can see other childminders giving up childcare because they have too much to do with their own children let alone other peoples children.


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  • #6217
    Deeec
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Deeec


    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    Childcare already is a huge problem . Since most people are back in work I see grandparents around here minding up to four children .Grandads out pushing buggies and grandparents who had not minded before now minding kids daily
    From my own circle of family and friends we are all minding kids now as the parents simply have no choice . It cant carry on as the grand parents will be exhausted by September !

    Absolutely - grandparents are stepping in to help. Some of these grandparents are in the at risk group and should not be doing this. Unfortunately they see their children struggling to work, keep their jobs and minding children and have to help out with childcare.


  • #6218
    the corpo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭the corpo


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    How many schools are in Ireland? They know exactly which and how many schools have issues? What is your definition of issues? Is this that the school doesn't have broadband or it's not working well? Point 1, they need to get broadband, point 2 the provider needs to be informed and send a engineer out to get it fixed ASAP.

    How long has the Irish national broadband plan been an utter joke for? There's not a chance they'll be able to get the whole school network running on an even keel by this September, or September 2040 for that matter....


  • #6219
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    the corpo wrote: »
    How long has the Irish national broadband plan been an utter joke for? There's not a chance they'll be able to get the whole school network running on an even keel by this September, or September 2040 for that matter....

    Prioritisation!! It's going to take a lot of cooperation between stakeholders, and some may be pushed out of their comfort zone for sure, but the focus needs to be on solutions and not on problems. Some good old fashioned SWOT analysis wouldn't go amiss. All of this should have been started in March. It's infuriating.


  • #6220
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    the corpo wrote: »
    How long has the Irish national broadband plan been an utter joke for? There's not a chance they'll be able to get the whole school network running on an even keel by this September, or September 2040 for that matter....

    Does that mean no effort by the Department to do anything should happen?


  • #6221
    the corpo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭the corpo


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    Does that mean no effort by the Department to do anything should happen?

    Of course not, I think the majority here agree the Department really needs to step up and provide a roadmap and solutions. Demand they improve broadband, I intend to as well, but there's little point in berating other posters for pre-empting the response.

    Be fore-armed with the response the Department will probably give you and be prepared to demand better.


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  • #6222
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    the corpo wrote: »
    Be fore-armed with the response the Department will probably give you and be prepared to demand better.

    Exactly!!! That's the role of the BoMs and principals and THAT has been my point all along.


  • #6223
    the corpo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭the corpo


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    Exactly!!! That's the role of the BoMs and principals and THAT has been my point all along.

    Wait, we were agreeing?! I've no idea what's going on anymore


  • #6224
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    the corpo wrote: »
    Wait, we were agreeing?! I've no idea what's going on anymore

    There's a few pigs necking Red Bull on a frozen lake in Hell right now I'm sure :pac:


  • #6225
    mcsean2163
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Murple wrote: »
    Why is there no peer interaction? Have you not arranged for your children to see or connect with their friends? Playgrounds are open. There are some summer camps open. People are permitted to meet in small groups. You can have people to your house. Unless the country goes back into lockdown, there are many opportunities for peer interaction if you wish it to happen.

    Up until phase 2 in our family, there was no peer interaction as advised by the government. We were probably stupid and over cautious but given my wife's role in a hospital, we felt it was safest.

    Now I am organising playdates. unfortunately, we missed out on most summer camps as they booked out fast and my wife was still trying to organise holidays in work. We have one camp for the older child in August. It's not that easy, I've gone from working to lockdown to stay at home dad without a big support group. I spoke with a neighbor at the weekend about meeting up and he wanted to know if our children had been tested for covid19....

    So lots of challenges and doing ok but a big benefit in primary schools is peer interaction IMHO. You can't play chasing on zoom and a primary school without it is something else altogether, so yeah if we know it will be academic only, I.e. on computers, maybe parents in the community who are more concerned about their child's mental and physical health than covid19 might plan to organise something etc.

    I hope that addresses your concern.


  • #6226
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    the corpo wrote: »
    Of course not, I think the majority here agree the Department really needs to step up and provide a roadmap and solutions. Demand they improve broadband, I intend to as well, but there's little point in berating other posters for pre-empting the response.

    Be fore-armed with the response the Department will probably give you and be prepared to demand better.

    There is very little berating going on in here (at least not from this morning) - perhaps some defensive posting based on other conversations.

    There is very little teachers can do in this bar "make do" - but its ridiculous how little communications there was been on anything. I think all in here are in agreement with this.


  • #6227
    the corpo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,813 ✭✭✭the corpo


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    There is very little berating going on in here (at least not from this morning) -

    You're right, I think I mean more historically. For the longest time this thread was a massive pile on on the teachers, but that's definitely moved on, for the most part. I think people are recognising that the teachers aren't actually going to be to blame for whatever does/doesn't happen in September.


  • #6228
    mcsean2163
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    There is one poster in particular here who is very active and has a strong cannot do attitude.

    Personally, I would like the teachers to know that there are many parents willing to support them and would appreciate guidance.

    I would love to see the following:

    1. A plan

    If we saw the plan maybe parents could feature in it, for instance if teachers are not able to mix with children, perhaps parents could get vetted and take the kids to the playground for a hour once a day.

    So far the school has not contacted parents at all

    There's so many things that could be done now.


  • #6229
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    the corpo wrote: »
    You're right, I think I mean more historically. For the longest time this thread was a massive pile on on the teachers, but that's definitely moved on, for the most part. I think people are recognising that the teachers aren't actually going to be to blame for whatever does/doesn't happen in September.

    Also agree with this, but I think that blame lies squarely with the Principals. Lots of teachers doing great work, lots of teachers doing no work, lots of teachers somewhere in the middle. I don't think an individual teacher is to blame for this, but everyone should have been doing the same and the expectations were just not consistently communicated to parents or teachers. The issue people on here had with the teachers in the thread is that they refused to acknowledge that not everyone was pulling their weight, like they had a complete overview of every teacher in the country.


  • #6230
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    mcsean2163 wrote: »
    There is one poster in particular here who is very active and has a strong cannot do attitude.

    Personally, I would like the teachers to know that there are many parents willing to support them and would appreciate guidance.

    I would love to see the following:

    1. A plan

    If we saw the plan maybe parents could feature in it, for instance if teachers are not able to mix with children, perhaps parents could get vetted and take the kids to the playground for a hour once a day.

    So far the school has not contacted parents at all

    There's so many things that could be done now.

    To be fair the schools are likely waiting on guidance to do just that.

    I would imagine the insurance implications on the above would make it unworkable.

    EVERYONE is in th dark about it unfortunately.


  • #6231
    mcsean2163
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »
    To be fair the schools are likely waiting on guidance to do just that.

    I would imagine the insurance implications on the above would make it unworkable.

    EVERYONE is in th dark about it unfortunately.

    I know in the UK parents go in and assist the teachers doing tasks for them on a voluntary basis (before covid19). It seems to work really well and no reason it can't work here. If the law needs to change on insurance it should change.


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  • #6232
    ThunbergsAreGo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,399 ✭✭✭✭ThunbergsAreGo


    mcsean2163 wrote: »
    I know in the UK parents go in and assist the teachers doing tasks for them on a voluntary basis. It seems to work really well and no reason it can't work here. If the law needs to change on insurance it should change.

    Didnt know that, that does sound interesting.

    However there is a different between tasks and taking responsibility for the kids (though I might have taken you up wrong altogether)


  • #6233
    Murple
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 337 ✭✭Murple


    mcsean2163 wrote: »
    I know in the UK parents go in and assist the teachers doing tasks for them on a voluntary basis. It seems to work really well and no reason it can't work here. If the law needs to change on insurance it should change.

    And in this country, parents come in and assist the teachers too BUT the teacher must be present for supervision, child protection and insurance reasons. Also, parents and the vast majority of other visitors coming in to the school will likely be stopped altogether from September so while the intention is good, having additional people in the school and interacting with staff and/or children is adding to the risk.


  • #6234
    Boggles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,536 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    Lillyfae wrote: »
    How many schools are in Ireland? They know exactly which and how many schools have issues? What is your definition of issues? Is this that the school doesn't have broadband or it's not working well? Point 1, they need to get broadband, point 2 the provider needs to be informed and send a engineer out to get it fixed ASAP.

    You don't "get broadband", you are given whatever provider or capabilities are in that particular location.

    If your understanding is they can just send out an engineer and magic up some high speed broadband, they can't.

    Seriously if you are showing that level of ignorance towards what is a fundamental nation wide problem then maybe you don't have the solutions, something to think about anyway.

    Maybe start at the absolute wreck that was The National Broadband plan and work back from there.


  • #6235
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    Boggles wrote: »
    You don't "get broadband", you are given whatever provider or capabilities are in that particular location.

    If your understanding is they can just send out an engineer and magic up some high speed broadband, they can't.

    Seriously if you are showing that level of ignorance towards what is a fundamental nation wide problem then maybe you don't have the solutions, something to think about anyway.

    Maybe start at the absolute wreck that was The National Broadband plan and work back from there.

    We're talking about government departments here. If no broadband is available at the school, then the NBP needs to prioritise schools where no broadband access is available. If the problem is that there are issues with the broadband currently at the school, an engineer from the provider needs to come out and fix it.

    I would suggest you take some of that anger and channel it somewhere productive, rather than deliberately obtuse and aggressive responses designed to muddy the waters of moving forward into the 2020/2021 school year. Your contribution so far has been:

    Schools can't open and blended learning is impossible.


  • #6236
    HerrKuehn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,066 ✭✭✭HerrKuehn


    Boggles wrote: »
    You don't "get broadband", you are given whatever provider or capabilities are in that particular location.

    If your understanding is they can just send out an engineer and magic up some high speed broadband, they can't.

    Seriously if you are showing that level of ignorance towards what is a fundamental nation wide problem then maybe you don't have the solutions, something to think about anyway.

    Maybe start at the absolute wreck that was The National Broadband plan and work back from there.

    Surely there will need to be local solutions depending on circumstances? I think the DOE should set the high level goals, such as all/as many as possible kids back in September.
    We know already that individual schools may need to be closed due to a positive test during the year, so what should be done there?

    1) Remote teaching, depending on suitability
    - this will not work well for schools in disadvantaged areas.
    - this will not work where school/teacher broadband is not sufficient
    - this does not work for primary kids.

    or
    2) make up the missed time at other times of the year

    Individual schools will need to look at how they have handled remote learning and see if the first option will work. If a lot of teachers have no broadband, then clearly you cant work remotely.


  • #6237
    mcsean2163
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,839 ✭✭✭mcsean2163


    Boggles wrote: »
    You don't "get broadband", you are given whatever provider or capabilities are in that particular location.

    If your understanding is they can just send out an engineer and magic up some high speed broadband, they can't.

    Seriously if you are showing that level of ignorance towards what is a fundamental nation wide problem then maybe you don't have the solutions, something to think about anyway.

    Maybe start at the absolute wreck that was The National Broadband plan and work back from there.

    This guy...

    I think everyone understood what the op was saying. As someone with a long history in telecommunications both in infrastructure and device development I would say yes, you get broadband when you are connected to a provider and schools could be prioritized. If necessary, they could get satellite broadband setup to tithe them over.

    Solutions can be found. Let's have a can do attitude please.


  • #6238
    antgal23
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 497 ✭✭antgal23


    Teacher in ASD class in special school

    Was approached a month ago to join Covid team. I'm not a middle manager but I agreed

    Main aim was to interpret Covid guidance from Govt and make the school Covid compliant for September

    I reckon between the ten of us we put in 150 hours , Covid guidance was so open that we spent the first 50 hours deciphering what it actually meant, the other 100 hours writing up policy and protocol

    We give it 100% and we want to open in September

    What will prevent us from opening is the eejits having house parties and fecking off to the Continent for two weeks


  • #6239
    grind gremlin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 420 ✭✭grind gremlin


    Boggles wrote: »
    You don't "get broadband", you are given whatever provider or capabilities are in that particular location.

    If your understanding is they can just send out an engineer and magic up some high speed broadband, they can't.

    Seriously if you are showing that level of ignorance towards what is a fundamental nation wide problem then maybe you don't have the solutions, something to think about anyway.

    Maybe start at the absolute wreck that was The National Broadband plan and work back from there.

    Also, if I’m not mistaken.... schools can get grants for IT but they do not come with funding for any form of tech support / maintenance. Issues with computers can take weeks to address while you wait for a volunteer parent to fix the issue.

    In some school, teachers are required to use their own laptop.

    There is also a cost involved in schools adopting certain platforms that would be necessary for blended learning. Funding needs to be made available to address these issues.

    As it stands, I already purchase my own cleaning supplies for my classroom. I supply hand soap for the children to wash their hands in class (the school began to supply this in the run up to the closures). Our classroom has no hot water and no toilets.
    Funding should have been made available ASAP to allow for schools to upgrade their IT systems and their premises.
    It is a joke. Teachers are just as frustrated As everyone other parents in the country(if not more).
    We do not know what arrangement need to be made for our own children for September and we have no idea what our work environment will look like when we return.

    With regards to issues using platforms such as Seesaw for home learning, please appreciate that many of us were all thrown in at the deep end, scrambling to meet the needs of our pupils in a totally unfamiliar environment. Within a classroom, a single lesson can be differentiated to meet the needs of the varying abilities in the class. Proper teaching needs constant reciprocal engagement to ensure there is meaningful learning taking place. This cannot be facilitated online.
    We all would love to be back in the classroom as normal, our concerns are that this cannot be done in a safe manner in light of the ridiculous amount of time the Department has wasted when schools could have been preparing.
    Schools will be ill prepared for a return in September and teachers will be blamed..... again......

    Blaming teachers for the problems in relation to schools opening is like blaming the nurses for the multitude of problems with the health system.....


  • #6240
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    antgal23 wrote: »
    Main aim was to interpret Covid guidance from Govt and make the school Covid compliant for September

    I reckon between the ten of us we put in 150 hours , Covid guidance was so open that we spent the first 50 hours deciphering what it actually meant, the other 100 hours writing up policy and protocol

    Fantastic, well done you and your school. I know interpretation is annoying but from the Department's perspective there has to be room for this because all the settings are so different. I have a little bit of experience in this and in my opinion a one size fits all approach would be impossible so this would be unavoidable. I wonder if all schools are preparing in this way.

    As a matter of interest, what kind of resources are you lacking at your school? Has funding been requested for anything?


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  • #6241
    Lillyfae
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,858 ✭✭✭Lillyfae


    grind gremlin wrote: »

    Blaming teachers for the problems in relation to schools opening is like blaming the nurses for the multitude of problems with the health system.....

    Please read back over the last 10 pages or so. Teachers were blaming parents for wanting individual attention and "babysitting" as much as anyone else was blaming teachers for closures/poor effort, but we're all moving on here.


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