How will schools be able to go back in September?

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

Seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding what Blended Learning is.

It will require an increase in budget not a cut.

It involves more work, more training, more tech, etc for everyone involved in schools.

That would be very much in the short term though, once implemented it would change education completely.

Blondini

mcsean2163 wrote: »

How would you feel if you were going to be fired if the schools stayed closed?

Nevermind that, do you have kids? If so, how do you think no peer interaction and no school might affect them?

1) Not going to happen.

2) Yes. But I spend most of my valuable time with them instead of online bitterly and naively ranting about teachers with anonymous strangers on the internet.

Any other questions class?

Boggles

Lillyfae wrote: »

That would be very much in the short term though, once implemented it would change education completely.

No such thing as short term when you are implementing a size-mic shift in established norms.

It's not like 'here is the tech, go get them tiger!'

wirelessdude01

Lillyfae wrote: »

That would be very much in the short term though, once implemented it would change education completely.

No one wants this though. If not needs to be implemented in some form or other for a short while it does need to be proper thought put though.

mcsean2163

Boggles wrote: »

Seems to be a fundamental misunderstanding what Blended Learning is.

It will require an increase in budget not a cut.

It involves more work, more training, more tech, etc for everyone involved in schools.

Maybe shift your premise from teachers are just greedy feckless fúcks who don't want to work, it should bring a more realistic level of clarity to your thinking.

My direct experience of blended learning was as follows:

1. A blog a week
2. No support at all for parents on how to teach.
3. 3 zoom meetups in total, during the 3rd meetup the teachers spent 10 minutes talking about nightclubs reopening, their fabulous holidays, etc before talking with the kids.

In addition, I discovered how far behind the class were academically.

I still think the teacher was lovely and think the kids benefited greatly from being in school but if it's more of the same I don't see the point. I never used the word feckless but perhaps you could suggest a useful adjective that describes the service meted out during lockdown.

Appreciate the sensible and measured words of the previous poster. I wrote to the minister etc. Not sure where to go now, this seems to be the only forum discussing what's going to happen. As it stands blended = disaster for my child and unemployment for me.

The latest I've been hearing is half days but that's not guaranteed.

So yes, why not have 50 teachers, the best teachers in Ireland do the teaching videos for primary if it is the same scenario, give the parents who will be teaching their children guidance and have that as a backup plan.

This could all be done right now. For someone like me who worked a year unpaid setting up their company it's incredibly frustrating to see obvious issues and nothing been done about them. The excuses being exercised are very y disappointing and disheartening .

At least if we know what is the plan parents like me can plan for the worst because that's all we can plan for. Why is that too much to ask?

Boggles

mcsean2163 wrote: »

My direct experience of blended learning was as follows:

1. A blog a week
2. No support at all for parents on how to teach.
3. 3 zoom meetups in total, during the 3rd meetup the teachers spent 10 minutes talking about nightclubs reopening, their fabulous holidays, etc before talking with the kids.

Yip, that's not blending learning.

Like I said there is a fundamental misunderstanding what it actually is.

mcsean2163 wrote: »

In addition, I discovered how far behind the class were academically.

Really and what makes you qualified to make that assessment that the whole class were "far behind" academically?

2 and a bit zoom meetings?

ThunbergsAreGo

Boggles wrote: »

Yip, that's not blending learning.

Like I said there is a fundamental misunderstanding what it actually is.



Really and what makes you qualified to make that assessment that the whole class were "far behind" academically?

2 and a bit zoom meetings?

But you agree its not a solution.

It is actually a good point in the above post, its ridiculous having multiple teachers essentially doing the same thing, in different places, if its blended learning - sharing the content creation load over a small (perhaps specialist) few could benefit everyone. With a new year, the curriculum shouldn't be THAT different (especially for younger ones).

To what many has said on here, the lack of a co-ordinated approach from the Department is incredible. The gap between what different schools are providing is crazy

Boggles

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

But you agree its not a solution.

We haven't implemented blended learning, what was described is not blend learning.

A proper solution will involve a detailed plan, training and lots of money, not cuts.

It's not a thing that can be teased out a few weeks.

ThunbergsAreGo

Boggles wrote: »

We haven't implemented blended learning, what was described is not blend learning.

A proper solution will involve a detailed plan, training and lots of money, not cuts.

It's not a thing that can be teased out a few weeks.

Had edited to say more or less the same thing.

There is no blended now, its haphazard panic learning with massively differing standards across different schools, with a throw it up online and hope kids watch it and engage. Its at best YouTube learning.

But there has been months since schools have been closed, and there is nothing close to a blended learning approach. What exactly do the Department do?

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

No such thing as short term when you are implementing a size-mic shift in established norms.

It's not like 'here is the tech, go get them tiger!'

Of course it would be a seismic shift, but relatively speaking, it would be short term. Rather than emphasizing how difficult it would be, start doing it. There is absolutely no reason why schools should be working so differently to eachother under the same department, with the same curriculum.

Deeec

mcsean2163 wrote: »

My direct experience of blended learning was as follows:

1. A blog a week
2. No support at all for parents on how to teach.
3. 3 zoom meetups in total, during the 3rd meetup the teachers spent 10 minutes talking about nightclubs reopening, their fabulous holidays, etc before talking with the kids.

In addition, I discovered how far behind the class were academically.

I still think the teacher was lovely and think the kids benefited greatly from being in school but if it's more of the same I don't see the point. I never used the word feckless but perhaps you could suggest a useful adjective that describes the service meted out during lockdown.

Appreciate the sensible and measured words of the previous poster. I wrote to the minister etc. Not sure where to go now, this seems to be the only forum discussing what's going to happen. As it stands blended = disaster for my child and unemployment for me.

The latest I've been hearing is half days but that's not guaranteed.

So yes, why not have 50 teachers, the best teachers in Ireland do the teaching videos for primary if it is the same scenario, give the parents who will be teaching their children guidance and have that as a backup plan.

This could all be done right now. For someone like me who worked a year unpaid setting up their company it's incredibly frustrating to see obvious issues and nothing been done about them. The excuses being exercised are very y disappointing and disheartening .

At least if we know what is the plan parents like me can plan for the worst because that's all we can plan for. Why is that too much to ask?

My blended learning experience was the exact same as yours ( without the Zoom calls). Apparently the teachers had no training on zoom and couldnt faciliate calls ( I had no training on zoom in my job either but was able to work it out). It was pathetic. I estimate the teachers in my childrens school done 0.5 hrs of work per week ( to type the email to send to parents). Im not blaming the teachers though ( they have been very good before covid) - Im blaming the Principle - she implemented this system. Other parents in different schools had great experiences of blended learning and great support from their teachers. It seems to have been all down to the school to decide how they were going to do it - this is what want wrong. We all need the department to give clear guidelines on what is going to happen. I fear time is running out though for an end of August full reopening.

ThunbergsAreGo

Lillyfae wrote: »

Of course it would be a seismic shift, but relatively speaking, it would be short term. Rather than emphasizing how difficult it would be, start doing it. There is absolutely no reason why schools should be working so differently to eachother under the same department, with the same curriculum.

It doesn't have to be short term, there is no reason that there couldn't be a group of teacher seconded to the department to prepare e-learning or learning support materials that support the schools curriculum and could be used for Covid-19 remainder and beyond.

At worst it can be used when a child is sick at home etc to keep them engaged with the work, or as support for existing teachers in classrooms/homework etc..

Boggles

Lillyfae wrote: »

Of course it would be a seismic shift, but relatively speaking, it would be short term. Rather than emphasizing how difficult it would be, start doing it. There is absolutely no reason why schools should be working so differently to eachother under the same department, with the same curriculum.

Absolutely 100%.

If you have a copy of the plan on how to do it will you send it on to me?

Has a detailed spec and a procurement document been sent on the required hardware and training, have the tendering process started, have the schools received the funding?

There seems to be a an understanding from some that blended learning will be the same as having wine and a zoom quiz with your mates during lockdown.

It's not.

ThunbergsAreGo

Boggles wrote: »

Absolutely 100%.

If you have a copy of the plan on how to do it will you send it on to me?

Has a detailed spec and a procurement document been sent on the required hardware and training, have the tendering process started, have the schools received the funding?

There seems to be a an understanding from some that blended learning will be the same as having wine and a zoom quiz with your mates during lockdown.

It's not.

I think we all agree its complex, why have the Department done nothing about it?

There has been next to nothing from them in months. Schools have been closed for 4 months.

Boggles

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I think we all agree its complex, why have the Department done nothing about it?
.

I can hazard a guess.

But no one knows, it's not like schools are keeping it a secret, like everyone else they don't know either.

Deeec

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

I think we all agree its complex, why have the Department done nothing about it?

There has been next to nothing from them in months. Schools have been closed for 4 months.

Exactly. This thread started in March - we all knew covid was serious and there was a chance the schools would not reopen in September and that schools needed alot of help to facilitate social distancing when they do reopen. It appears the department gave no thought to this whatsoever.

ThunbergsAreGo

Boggles wrote: »

I can hazard a guess.

But no one knows, it's not like schools are keeping it a secret, like everyone else they don't know either.

I am not blaming schools on this - most are doing the best with what they can do at the moment - but the approach appears to be shambolic from the Department (and thats being kind)

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

Absolutely 100%.

If you have a copy of the plan on how to do it will you send it on to me?

Has a detailed spec and a procurement document been sent on the required hardware and training, have the tendering process started, have the schools received the funding?

There seems to be a an understanding from some that blended learning will be the same as having wine and a zoom quiz with your mates during lockdown.

It's not.

Less of the snarky comments please. This attitude is patently ridiculous, seeing as most of us work in jobs where we were told "Here's Teams"and given exactly 0 training in how to use it.

First of all, Zoom is a rubbish and arguably insecure platform, something like Microsoft Teams would be far more professional. Not too much staff training should be necessary, if teachers are not computer literate they might struggle, but this day in age I do not find this an acceptable excuse. If they can use a smartphone they can use Teams/Zoom.

Secondly, funding needs to be allocated, but everyone needs to be working together. The principals and BoM need to be crystal clear about what funding they actually need to get prepared, because as we know schools are equipped to extremely varying standards. I've said it before, this is actually an opportunity to get schools properly funded and updated, but nobody except for the people who are working in the individual schools can say what is actually needed. This incoherent "but we've always been underfunded and we're making the best of it" won't do anymore.

scrubs33

Agree with the majority of points here, especially the growing sense of frustration. I do feel however that we need to be very clear around what we mean by blended learning. The in person element of blended learning will be very difficult if social distancing measures are in place. At no point did I engage in blended learning since March: it has all been via Zoom and Teams so its all been online. A blended approach will still involve kids being dropped at school, rooms being cleaned more regularly but it’s just that there will be more time and space to do so if everyone isn’t milling around the place at once. I do feel we are approaching zero hour with regard to procurement, guidelines and in fact everything to do with getting back to school in some form...

carr62

I think that this Covid situation seems to be very fluid, in that it looks likely that conditions in the country could change a lot every couple of months or so. Given that, schools have to be prepared for an ever changing scenario - fully open, fully closed, and something in the middle. The Dept have had a long time now to come up with ideas, but I just don't see any evidence on the ground - no building alterations been carried out, so it looks unlikely we will see a full return in September. I have my concerns whether they are planning for all eventualities. My eldest is going in to 6th year so would be due to sit leaving cert next summer. She's so far behind it's a real worry. She's been very engaged, and is giving an hour a day to her books even now, to try to catch up but I just don't know where it will end for her. She has sinus problems and seems to have a permanent head cold over the winter months, perhaps that will stop her being able to attend class if they reopen. In fairness no one is going to be comfortable with a student coughing in class! It's a pity there wasn't a library of good quality free online pre-recorded lessons in all topics available. I think there's going to be an ever more widening gap between the kids who are lucky enough to be provided with grinds, and the ones who can't. It's not going to be easy for next year's Leaving Cert students. I think they've had as much, or probably even more, disruption than the class of 2020.

Boggles

Lillyfae wrote: »

Less of the snarky comments please. This attitude is patently ridiculous, seeing as most of us work in jobs where we were told "Here's Teams"and given exactly 0 training in how to use it.

No what is ridiculous is someone trying to compare sitting at home looking into a webcam from 2 feet communicating with similar qualified adults with blended learning.

Murple

mcsean2163 wrote: »

My direct experience of blended learning was as follows:

1. A blog a week
2. No support at all for parents on how to teach.
3. 3 zoom meetups in total, during the 3rd meetup the teachers spent 10 minutes talking about nightclubs reopening, their fabulous holidays, etc before talking with the kids.

Was it a whole school Zoom meetup? How were the teachers able to spend 10 minutes talking with each other? Were all the kids just sitting and listening in?

Murple

mcsean2163 wrote: »

How would you feel if you were going to be fired if the schools stayed closed?

Nevermind that, do you have kids? If so, how do you think no peer interaction and no school might affect them?

Why is there no peer interaction? Have you not arranged for your children to see or connect with their friends? Playgrounds are open. There are some summer camps open. People are permitted to meet in small groups. You can have people to your house. Unless the country goes back into lockdown, there are many opportunities for peer interaction if you wish it to happen.

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

No what is ridiculous is someone trying to compare sitting at home looking into a webcam from 2 feet communicating with similar qualified adults with blended learning.

And the rest?

iamwhoiam

Murple wrote: »

Why is there no peer interaction? Have you not arranged for your children to see or connect with their friends? Playgrounds are open. There are some summer camps open. People are permitted to meet in small groups. You can have people to your house. Unless the country goes back into lockdown, there are many opportunities for peer interaction if you wish it to happen.

Peer interaction when learning together is a very different thing than playing on a swing with another child .Education taught by teachers is vital in my opinion .As is the group learning and peer interaction in primary school and early learning

mirrorwall14

I had great craic when I introduced loom voice overs for maths instruction. I had been tearing my hair out with corrections and students telling me they couldn’t do things. It turned out the vast majority of them weren’t bothering to watch the instruction just giving the questions a bash and calling it done. There was a ringing silence when I pulled them up on it. Teenagers lol.

But seriously, if Lower primary are back and childcare is open then I would be in a far better position to teach live at least. I couldn’t manage that properly at all when minding my two so was prerecording lessons late into the night and all weekend to compensate. I’ll happily go into school and work live at a whiteboard on my own if we have childcare

The issue then becomes can parents facilitate (Practical considerations like broadband) and encourage their students to engage.

My biggest fear right now is that we would be expected to run our full timetable in school but also be setting work and correcting those at home. With the number of contact hours teachers have that would be insane again

But my biggest frustration is the lack of knowledge. This is my planning time. Sort out the department folder, write yearly plans, design resources with the time to think (when in school the year is mental). I could have so much done if I just knew what we would be doing

Murple

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Peer interaction when learning together is a very different thing than playing on a swing with another child .Education taught by teachers is vital in my opinion .As is the group learning and peer interaction in primary school and early learning

I appreciate that but the OP mentioned 'no peer interaction and no school' as separate things. The first can happen without the second.

mcsean2163

Murple wrote: »

Was it a whole school Zoom meetup? How were the teachers able to spend 10 minutes talking with each other? Were all the kids just sitting and listening in?

It was the end of year send off. The teachers spent the first ten minutes having a chat. Then they spoke with the kids each in turn. I think it would have been more appropriate for them to have their chat in advance.

Their holidays sounded amazing, renting houses with friends in really nice parts of the country and hoping restaurants were open. It was bit cringe when they then asked the kids what they were doing as most including our child didn't have fabulous holidays organised.

The stuff about nightclubs was just inappropriate imho.

Boggles

Lillyfae wrote: »

And the rest?

Of your post?

Lillyfae wrote: »

First of all, Zoom is a rubbish and arguably insecure platform, something like Microsoft Teams would be far more professional. Not too much staff training should be necessary, if teachers are not computer literate they might struggle, but this day in age I do not find this an acceptable excuse. If they can use a smartphone they can use Teams/Zoom.

No, Webex would be the industry choice.

Lillyfae wrote: »

Secondly, funding needs to be allocated, but everyone needs to be working together. The principals and BoM need to be crystal clear about what funding they actually need to get prepared, because as we know schools are equipped to extremely varying standards. I've said it before, this is actually an opportunity to get schools properly funded and updated, but nobody except for the people who are working in the individual schools can say what is actually needed. This incoherent "but we've always been underfunded and we're making the best of it" won't do anymore.

You want schools to be prepared for what?

The department knows exactly the broadband capability of each school.

They are also fully aware a large chunk of schools do not have ability to live stream multiple instances of video conferencing.

If it is to be done properly the rest involves fairly expensive equipment and training.

Then a rather extensive plan of how the whole thing will work.

Basically live streaming off a 10 year old laptop from from a shítty connection will not work.

Lillyfae

Boggles wrote: »

No, Webex would be the industry choice.

Whatever you want

Boggles wrote: »

You want schools to be prepared for what?

The department knows exactly the broadband capability of each school.

They are also fully aware a large chunk of schools do not have ability to live stream multiple instances of video conferencing.

What are the Principal and BoM for if not being the link between the school and the DoE? They need to make a full list of everything that is needed, including but not limited to:

Hardware/ software/ broadband gaps
Cleaning supplies needed (the elusive toilet paper)
Refurbishment of building eg more toilets/ sinks
Extra staff such as cleaners/ caretakers/ substitute teachers
List of teachers who would be classed as at risk
List of students who would be classed as at risk

Boggles wrote: »

If it is to be done properly the rest involves fairly expensive equipment and training.

Then a rather extensive plan of how the whole thing will work.

Basically live streaming off a 10 year old laptop from from a shítty connection will not work.

Blended in my opinion would begin with prioritising those children who's parents are essential workers- I would include teachers as essential. Make sure that they can get to school and then see how the rest of the children are equipped wrt devices and parents who might be in a better position to homeschool (ie one parent not working) with support from the DoE in general. Teachers who are in the at risk category and can't get to work need to be leading the remote aspect of the blended learning. They need to be sorting out their own broadband issues, and need to be supplied with a fully functional laptop.

The DoE have already communicated that the Government will be funding the schools. All schools need different funding. The schools know their needs, and their children. They need to take this knowledge and use it highlight their needs.