Masks

Pablo Escobar · 19-07-2020 09:30PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And your post is exactly what I'm talking about.. "someone else has a different opinion to me! Must respond with a bunch of insults and smug pontificating for the likes". It's this that annoys me most about social media led crusading - you're with us or against us, but if you're against us we will beat you into submission.

Wear masks if you wish. No one is stopping you. You are I'm sure aware that most "expert" reports will support whatever the author wishes to prove right? That's why for every study showing x, there'll be another just as valid sounding proving y.

We've had 3 weeks+ of the country effectively reopened and yet numbers haven't surged. It might be predicted they will, but it hasn't happened - yet anyway. I am not convinced that the sudden love for face masks is the answer we've missed all these months (when the numbers fell to minimal levels), and I am not convinced that threatening people to comply "or else" will work either. People will make the minimum effort needed, only when necessary to avoid any penalties. That can't be much good for a universal response? Not to mention the host of exemptions on top of it.

Opinions and evidence are not equal. I don’t understand why there’s such a swathe of people that don’t seem to be able to grasp this very simple concept.

odyssey06 · 19-07-2020 09:34PM

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And your post is exactly what I'm talking about.. "someone else has a different opinion to me! Must respond with a bunch of insults and smug pontificating for the likes". It's this that annoys me most about social media led crusading - you're with us or against us, but if you're against us we will beat you into submission.

Strange. You can lob out terms like zealots and "experts" in quotation marks and it isn't an insult or smug pontificating but when someone calls you out on it this is your response.
Someone who comes onto a social media thread with a broadside and then says they won't respond well frankly that post is garbage as far as I'm concerned. That was the only insult in my response and it was very much attacking the post and that type of posting behaviour.
How about your apply your own standards to your own posts before you throw out lines like smug pontificating.

Sconsey · 19-07-2020 09:40PM

No: other

weldoninhio wrote: »

We aren’t being asked to wear any specification of mask. We are asked to wear a face covering. Any oul scarf will do. Very scientific

Why do you care, you said you will be lying about having a mental illness to avoid wearing a mask in public place?

weldoninhio wrote: »

I’d imagine the virus is a certain size, there’s a certain specification of mask/face covering that contains its spread. Would you be happy to have a loved one going into an operating theatre followed by a doctor with a Man U scarf around his face??

The virus is a certain size, very small, much smaller than the weave in most masks so they probably won't catch it, any auld scarf has frig-all chance of catching it. But if you had a clue you would know that masks are generally being worn to catch the droplets, that are much larger than the virus particles, perfectly large enough to be captured by the weave of most masks, possibly even an auld scarf. If masks can capture a good percentage of the droplets they will reduce the risk of the public being infected.
Selfish people like yourself, who would sooner lie about an illness than wear a mask, don't seem to get this fact.

iamwhoiam · 19-07-2020 09:41PM

Why is it so difficult for adults to understand that if we are allowed more freedom we wear mask ? Its not rocket science its common sense . We have more freedom to get out and meet others , go to shops or cinemas , see our families so we wear masks so we can continue doing that
Why do people see that as somehow complicated ? Its actually very simple

timmy_mallet · 19-07-2020 10:19PM

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Why is it so difficult for adults to understand that if we are allowed more freedom we wear mask ? Its not rocket science its common sense . We have more freedom to get out and meet others , go to shops or cinemas , see our families so we wear masks so we can continue doing that
Why do people see that as somehow complicated ? Its actually very simple

Because mandatory IN RETAIL outletss is illogical. It is unnecessary. There is no correlation between it and lower numbers and any impact on you being able to see your family. Why is it so difficult for other adults to understand that.

khalessi · 19-07-2020 10:27PM

Yes: surgical

timmy_mallet wrote: »

Because mandatory IN RETAIL outletss is illogical. It is unnecessary. There is no correlation between it and lower numbers and any impact on you being able to see your family. Why is it so difficult for other adults to understand that.

Maybe because the numbers in shops are not the same as precovid days and any attempt to bring those numbers back to normal during a pandemic as this isnt over, will involve masks or face coverings.

The argument that you can use pjs or pants is null and void considering how many well made masks are available now in shops or online and also medical masks are available. Sure use them if you want but why when better is available and there are tutorials online if you wish.

weldoninhio · 19-07-2020 10:52PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Sconsey wrote: »

Why do you care, you said you will be lying about having a mental illness to avoid wearing a mask in public place?

The virus is a certain size, very small, much smaller than the weave in most masks so they probably won't catch it, any auld scarf has frig-all chance of catching it. But if you had a clue you would know that masks are generally being worn to catch the droplets, that are much larger than the virus particles, perfectly large enough to be captured by the weave of most masks, possibly even an auld scarf. If masks can capture a good percentage of the droplets they will reduce the risk of the public being infected.
Selfish people like yourself, who would sooner lie about an illness than wear a mask, don't seem to get this fact.

If, possibly, etc. Blinding me with science here.

weldoninhio · 19-07-2020 10:54PM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

GT89 wrote: »

If they make it mandatory on public transport then in shops next thing the tyrants will make it mandatory whenever you step outside the door. I can't believe people are actually buying this crap I thought they had a bit more cop on than that.

If the govt came out tomorrow and told people to walk on all fours because Covid hangs in the air at around 4-6ft, you’d have threads calling people walking normally scumbags.

Away With The Fairies · 19-07-2020 10:54PM

Yes: valved

timmy_mallet wrote: »

"Maybe"

The complete refusal to acknowledge the different levels of risk amongst those here are astonishing.

The risk is people. Anyone can carry the covid virus and not know it.

flo8s967qjh0nd · 19-07-2020 11:21PM

No: I don't care enough

Wearing a mask seems like a very simple way of preventing the spread of this virus. There are no real downsides to wearing one and significant benefits for society in wearing one. Easy decision. Wear a mask.

khalessi · 20-07-2020 12:11AM

Yes: surgical

GT89 wrote: »

The fact I don't know one person who has contracted cv19 let alone died from it would be a start

Ok you are very lucky, I know 5 people who caught it, a family, and were very sick and tested for it too.

My sister works in Covid A/e and at one stage it was a ****show in there, still getting the suspected cases but calmed down.

Re wearing masks prior to 2020 outside of a hospital setting I have during winter months when in contact with CF niece to ensure she doesn't catch anything. since she was born, we have practised hand hygiene ala Ayliffe technique when we go to visit or she visits, it is second nature, all the grandchildren were brought to practice cough etiquette hand washing and mask wearing when necessary to keep her safe.

GT89 · 20-07-2020 12:20AM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

khalessi wrote: »

Ok you are very lucky, I know 5 people who caught it, a family, and were very sick and tested for it too.

My sister works in Covid A/e and at one stage it was a ****show in there, still getting the suspected cases but calmed down.

Re wearing masks prior to 2020 outside of a hospital setting I have during winter months when in contact with CF niece to ensure she doesn't catch anything. since she was born, we have practised hand hygiene ala Ayliffe technique when we go to visit or she visits, it is second nature, all the grandchildren were brought to practice cough etiquette hand washing and mask wearing when necessary to keep her safe.

I worked in an "essiential" job throughout the lockdown. Me nor any of my co workers caught it if it was so rampant I think I would have known someone who caught it at this stage. It could be luck but I don't think so as luck and the statistics generally don't go hand in hand.

I can understand wearing a mask whilst being around someone vulnerable but around healthy people in everyday settings like shops and public transport it's unesscary.

Arrival · 20-07-2020 12:24AM

GT89 wrote: »

So did your common sense tell you to wear a mask last year or anyother time throughout human history before 2020.

Was there a virus that transmits from presymptomatic people then? The main reason masks are useful for this specific virus

In case you don't understand what this means and what the issue is: it can take a few days for people to actually feel sick when they're infected, normally 3-5 days but sometimes even longer, but during those days these people can still be infecting other people they're around. Because of this and the fact it's not possible to test absolutely everyone to find and isolate the infected people, having everyone behave like they are infected and trying to not infect other people is a workaround to help a country cope with community spread so the virus can be traced and isolated. Community spread means it's spreading between strangers in public places and this makes the virus difficult to trace and isolate, so masks and physically distancing in public are how we cope with this. Once the virus only spreads between family/friends/co-workers it can be easily traced and isolated. A mask is such a tiny inconvenience for the few minutes we go into a shop or on a train or bus

GT89 · 20-07-2020 12:49AM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

How exactly do you know who's healthy in a shop? How can you tell if someone has diabetes or people are sick?

Well if they're at risk they can stay at home if they want. People need to accept the risk or stay at home.

Overheal · 20-07-2020 12:58AM

No: I don't care enough

GT89 wrote: »

Well if they're at risk they can stay at home if they want. People need to accept the risk or stay at home.

And what if they are caregivers for someone else?

Away With The Fairies · 20-07-2020 01:05AM

Yes: valved

GT89 wrote: »

Well if they're at risk they can stay at home if they want. People need to accept the risk or stay at home.

Stay at home because you don't want to wear a mask. And if they do go out, you'll infect them. So you're happy continuing on with your life like that. But other people aren't allowed a life or go out for basic necessities.

GT89 · 20-07-2020 01:06AM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Overheal wrote: »

And what if they are caregivers for someone else?

Well then the person that is vulnerable can choose not be around them be with someone they trust hasn't been around been putting themselves at risk couldn't they. But I guess persoanl choice isn't something you people understand.

Away With The Fairies · 20-07-2020 01:08AM

Yes: valved

Overheal wrote: »

And what if they are caregivers for someone else?

Don't underestimate low IQs, there'll be excuses for caregivers to stay at home as well. And caregivers of caregivers. That's how much we care and protect the vulnerable. Anything except to wear a mask and contain our germs.

Overheal · 20-07-2020 01:11AM

No: I don't care enough

GT89 wrote: »

Well then the person that is vulnerable can choose not be around them be with someone they trust hasn't been around been putting themselves at risk couldn't they. But I guess persoanl choice isn't something you people understand.

So you can't understand how it should be your personal choice to stay home if you refuse to wear a mask?

GT89 · 20-07-2020 01:13AM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Stay at home because you don't want to wear a mask. And if they do go out, you'll infect them. So you're happy continuing on with your life like that. But other people aren't allowed a life or go out for basic necessities.

More nonsense. I'm not stopping anyone going out all I'm saying is they need to accept the risk if I don't want to wear a mask I shouldn't have to we live in a free society where we can make personal choices whatever happened to live and let live.

GT89 · 20-07-2020 01:17AM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Away With The Fairies wrote: »

Don't underestimate low IQs, there'll be excuses for caregivers to stay at home as well. And caregivers of caregivers. That's how much we care and protect the vulnerable. Anything except to wear a mask and contain our germs.

I don't really care about the vulnerable tbh and that's my perrogative. I don't have to. If you care about the vulnerable that's your great but I don't and I don't have to either.

Overheal · 20-07-2020 01:17AM

No: I don't care enough

GT89 wrote: »

More nonsense. I'm not stopping anyone going out all I'm saying is they need to accept the risk if I don't want to wear a mask I shouldn't have to we live in a free society where we can make personal choices whatever happened to live and let live.

?

You can be a nudist its your God given right but in public we have decency laws.

Similarly if you choose to be out in public among others during a pandemic, be prepared to be required to wear a mask.

Freedom is not a golden ticket to force everyone else to put up with your selfishness, especially when it causes harm to others, as refusing to protect others from your potential viral load does.

Overheal · 20-07-2020 01:19AM

No: I don't care enough

GT89 wrote: »

I don't really care about the vulnerable tbh and that's my perrogative. I don't have to. If you care about the vulnerable that's your great but I don't and I don't have to either.

You do when it violates the harm principle. It's great for someone to say oh its my right to drive drunk - no it isn't, because you can harm other people. It's not your right to not wear a mask when it would result in infecting those around you.

20-07-2020 01:23AM

Yes: surgical

GT89 wrote: »

I worked in an "essiential" job throughout the lockdown. Me nor any of my co workers caught it if it was so rampant I think I would have known someone who caught it at this stage..

You cannot say that with 100% certainty.

It's possible to be infected with covid19 and be asymptomatic. No symptoms or signs of infection. You wouldn't even know you had it.

But the danger is that such asymptomatic carriers can still transmit the infection to others, those who are significantly more vulnerable then them. Those who could die from it.

So please, for their sake, stop making excuses and show a little common decency and put on a mask. Do what you can to protect the vulnerable.

GT89 · 20-07-2020 01:29AM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Overheal wrote: »

?

You can be a nudist its your God given right but in public we have decency laws.

Similarly if you choose to be out in public among others during a pandemic, be prepared to be required to wear a mask.

Freedom is not a golden ticket to force everyone else to put up with your selfishness, especially when it causes harm to others, as refusing to protect others from your potential viral load does.

You don't have to wear a mask in Sweden maybe I should go live there. I'd like to but unfortunately I don't speak Swedish.

I for one don't agree with decency laws if you want to be nudist I should be able but it's not a good idea as may be laughed at catch hypothermia but again it should be a choice. It should advised against but not made against the law. I don't agree with mandatory seatbelts in cars, mandatory crash helmets on motorcycles or mandatory ppe in the workplace. It should be peoples personal choice it should be strongly recommended to wear a seatbelt but not a law for example.

I don't like people speaking too loudly it hurts my ears are these people putting my health at risk should they be required to speak using a lower voice under your logic.

GT89 · 20-07-2020 01:37AM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Overheal wrote: »

You do when it violates the harm principle. It's great for someone to say oh its my right to drive drunk - no it isn't, because you can harm other people. It's not your right to not wear a mask when it would result in infecting those around you.

Well some people have medical conditions that put them under severe risk if they catch a cold or flu as they are immunocompromised. So under your logic why don't we go around wearing masks all the time in order to allow these people to have a "normal" life?

Last time I checked other have a right not to be around me. If I'm in a shop or on a bus without a mask you can move away from me.

Overheal · 20-07-2020 01:42AM

No: I don't care enough

GT89 wrote: »

You don't have to wear a mask in Sweden maybe I should go live there. I'd like to but unfortunately I don't speak Swedish.

I for one don't agree with decency laws if you want to be nudist I should be able but it's not a good idea as may be laughed at catch hypothermia but again it should be a choice. It should advised against but not made against the law. I don't agree with mandatory seatbelts in cars, mandatory crash helmets on motorcycles or mandatory ppe in the workplace. It should be peoples personal choice it should be strongly recommended to wear a seatbelt but not a law for example.

I don't like people speaking too loudly it hurts my ears are these people putting my health at risk should they be required to speak using a lower voice under your logic.

Well it’s peoples personal choice if they want to assume the responsibilities for being a licensed motorcyclist. Any passenger or driver who is not belted in a car accident is a ballistic object that can kill others. It’s your personal choice if you want to remain employed. And it’s your personal choice if you want to be in public during a pandemic, but like all of the above it comes with certain obligations and responsibilities upon the individual. Public indecency isn’t harmless either and in places where it’s allowed they are set up to partition nudists from those who do not or should not be exposed to it, like children.

There are certainly noise ordinances and if someone screamed in your ear canal that’s already covered as an assault charge for causing physical harm. Shouting inappropriately in a lot of cases can be disorderly conduct. So these glib things you whine should be the law as well... already are.

Overheal · 20-07-2020 01:58AM

No: I don't care enough

GT89 wrote: »

Well some people have medical conditions that put them under severe risk if they catch a cold or flu as they are immunocompromised. So under your logic why don't we go around wearing masks all the time in order to allow these people to have a "normal" life?

Last time I checked other have a right not to be around me. If I'm in a shop or on a bus without a mask you can move away from me.

Now you're just making the argument we should wear masks far more often.

I've no problem with that.

It's already the norm in some countries, especially to wear a mask if you are feeling at all unwell. There is scant evidence that the flu transmits asymptomatically like Covid-19 does, and it's not nearly as deadly. Especially in Ireland where the Covid-19 mortality rate is seven and a half percent (1,753 deaths against 23,364 recoveries) compared to two percent mortality of the flu during for instance the 2017/2018 flu season (255 dead among 11,889 confirmed cases). This also in fact means that Covid has already in the first half of this year spread in Ireland to more than double the amount of people as the flu in an entire flu season, with no indication this thing will be over any time before 2021.

But hell yeah if you have the cold or the flu or suspect you're coming on with it, scratchy throat whatever by all means I encourage you to wear the mask and spare others the experience. Good thinkin' Abe Lincoln.

GT89 · 20-07-2020 01:58AM

No: I will wait for the HSE to recommend

Overheal wrote: »

Well it’s peoples personal choice if they want to assume the responsibilities for being a licensed motorcyclist. Any passenger or driver who is not belted in a car accident is a ballistic object that can kill others. It’s your personal choice if you want to remain employed. And it’s your personal choice if you want to be in public during a pandemic, but like all of the above it comes with certain obligations and responsibilities upon the individual. Public indecency isn’t harmless either and in places where it’s allowed they are set up to partition nudists from those who do not or should not be exposed to it, like children.

So if that's the case why dosen't the same logic apply to objects like boxes in cars placed on the back seats. A motorcyclist not wearing a hemet is putting nobody at risk except themselves. I have never worn a mask before so therafore I shouldn't have to wear one now contagious diseases that kill the immunocompromised have always existed but not everyone has had to wear a mask.

There are certainly noise ordinances and if someone screamed in your ear canal that’s already covered as an assault charge for causing physical harm. Shouting inappropriately in a lot of cases can be disorderly conduct. So these glib things you whine should be the law as well... already are.

I was talking about speaking not shouting

Overheal · 20-07-2020 02:12AM

No: I don't care enough

GT89 wrote: »

So if that's the case why dosen't the same logic apply to objects like boxes in cars placed on the back seats. A motorcyclist not wearing a hemet is putting nobody at risk except themselves.

That's what the trunk/boot is for, however let's assume the driver made the choice to fill their car with those potentially ballistic objects. There are laws against dangerous cargo though and guidelines from the RSA:

https://www.rsa.ie/RSA/Professional-Drivers/Driving-Safely/Managing-for-safety/Securing-Vehicle-Loads/

I have never worn a mask before so therafore I shouldn't have to wear one now contagious diseases that kill the immunocompromised have always existed but not everyone has had to wear a mask.

This is a ridiculous sentiment and you know that. The 7 most dangerous words in the English language are: This is how I’ve always done it.

'I never had to wash my hands before therefore I shouldn't have to now'

'I never had to wipe my ass before therefore I shouldn't have to now'

'I never had to piss in a toilet before therefore I shouldn't have to now'

'I never had to drive sober before therefore I shouldn't have to now'

'I never had to drive a speed limit before therefore I shouldn't have to now'

'I never had to heal someone without leeches before therefore I shouldn't have to now'

'I never had to practice safe sex before therefore I shouldn't have to now'

'I never had to ask for consent before therefore I shouldn't have to now'

'I never had to wear a hygiene mask before therefore I shouldn't have to now'

I was talking about speaking not shouting

Then you have extraordinarily delicate ears and it would not be unreasonable to ask you to wear your own ear plugs. There is no 'ear plug' equivalent for this pandemic, masks do not stop infection in a covid-saturated environment, rather masks stop Covid from entering the environment effectively, one of the larger sources of Covid transmission being from airborne moisture-laden exhalation from carriers.

Masks

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